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subject42
2009-10-08, 11:58 AM
What is the largest critical threat range that you can get in D&D just from a mundane weapon? Core has several 18-20 threat range weapons, but are there any weapons that go beyond that? I vaguely remember a 17 - 20 from somewhere, but I don't know where.

Eloel
2009-10-08, 12:03 PM
The largest threat range in 3.5 is 18-20. There exists a 17-20 in 3.0

Temet Nosce
2009-10-08, 12:13 PM
What is the largest critical threat range that you can get in D&D just from a mundane weapon? Core has several 18-20 threat range weapons, but are there any weapons that go beyond that? I vaguely remember a 17 - 20 from somewhere, but I don't know where.

Chainblade would be the 17-20 crit weapon you're thinking of, from Arms & Armor.

Fluffles
2009-10-08, 12:16 PM
Do keen weapons count?

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the "Mundane" requirement.

Korivan
2009-10-08, 12:21 PM
Forget keen, grap the disciple of dispatcher with 7 levels of Weapon Master. Tack on Serrated and laminated steel qualities, Excecutioners Eyes too if you can. See yourself with a range of up to 4-20 crit x(+2)

The Glyphstone
2009-10-08, 01:51 PM
Forget keen, grap the disciple of dispatcher with 7 levels of Weapon Master. Tack on Serrated and laminated steel qualities, Excecutioners Eyes too if you can. See yourself with a range of up to 4-20 crit x(+2)

Needs moar Kaorti Resin. Now it's a x6 crit.

Cieyrin
2009-10-08, 01:57 PM
Forget keen, grap the disciple of dispatcher with 7 levels of Weapon Master. Tack on Serrated and laminated steel qualities, Excecutioners Eyes too if you can. See yourself with a range of up to 4-20 crit x(+2)

Not exactly mundane, actually. The OP was just looking for base crit-range, not optimized to splatter things on walls.

sofawall
2009-10-08, 02:14 PM
Needs moar Kaorti Resin. Now it's a x6 crit.

Now you lose Disciple of Dispater. :P


Also, Bladed Gauntlet, it's never (to my knowledge) been reprinted, so go to town! :P

Claudius Maximus
2009-10-08, 02:41 PM
Bladed Gauntlet was errata'd to 19-20. I think the later printings of Sword and Fist also have it at 19-20.

sofawall
2009-10-08, 02:58 PM
Bladed Gauntlet was errata'd to 19-20. I think the later printings of Sword and Fist also have it at 19-20.

My knowledge has been slain!

D Knight
2009-10-08, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Korivan
Forget keen, grap the disciple of dispatcher with 7 levels of Weapon Master. Tack on Serrated and laminated steel qualities, Excecutioners Eyes too if you can. See yourself with a range of up to 4-20 crit x(+2)


Needs moar Kaorti Resin. Now it's a x6 crit.

what book is all this from because i think i might build a rouge with this

Knaight
2009-10-08, 05:20 PM
Why? Sneak attack damage isn't multiplied, power attack is, a Fighter benefits a lot more. Or a barbarian.

Greymane
2009-10-08, 05:28 PM
I'm glad Kaorti Resin was brought up, because I was curious... Do most people running games actually let their characters (say the Frenzied Berserker) pick that up and put it on a Keen Falchion?

Chainblade has been mentioned! Bah!

Doc Roc
2009-10-08, 05:32 PM
Stump Knives, if they aren't errata'd. Can never remember if they are. A&EG.

Kylarra
2009-10-08, 05:34 PM
I'm glad Kaorti Resin was brought up, because I was curious... Do most people running games actually let their characters (say the Frenzied Berserker) pick that up and put it on a Keen Falchion?

Chainblade has been mentioned! Bah!Presumably you'd either need to backstory it, if starting above a point where you could have one, or quest for it in game.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-08, 05:48 PM
Sneak attack damage isn't multiplied, power attack is
That's not quite right.
Multiplying Damage

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.
The Craven feat adds a constant +1 point per character level to sneak attack damage (thus boosting damage by more than 50% with one feat). As non-dice damage, this bonus is multiplied on critical hits. Craven is at least as important to a Rogue as Power Attack is to a Fighter or Barbarian.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-08, 05:52 PM
That's not quite right.
The Craven feat adds a constant +1 point per character level to sneak attack damage (thus boosting damage by more than 50% with one feat). As non-dice damage, this bonus is multiplied on critical hits. Craven is at least as important to a Rogue as Power Attack is to a Fighter or Barbarian.

Yes, however craven doesn't provide the same level of benefit.

subject42
2009-10-08, 06:42 PM
Stump Knives, if they aren't errata'd. Can never remember if they are. A&EG.

What was their range?

Reptilius
2009-10-08, 06:44 PM
Melee. Just a knife you put on over your hand, or a severed stump.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-08, 06:51 PM
Yes, however craven doesn't provide the same level of benefit.
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. Craven doesn't impair your chances of hitting (except in the case where it causes you to run away from the fight, that is), whereas using Power Attack can make you miss.

Let's just take a mid-level sample. At level 10 a Rogue has BAB of +7 compared to the Fighter's BAB of +10. Craven at that level will always give +10 to sneak attack damage. If you Power Attack for 5 with a 2-handed weapon you'll also get +10 to damage -- but then the Rogue's AB is +7 compared to the Fighter's +5.

Craven is the feat that makes it possible for a Rogue to be in melee combat without that being foolish.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-08, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. Craven doesn't impair your chances of hitting (except in the case where it causes you to run away from the fight, that is), whereas using Power Attack can make you miss.

Let's just take a mid-level sample. At level 10 a Rogue has BAB of +7 compared to the Fighter's BAB of +10. Craven at that level will always give +10 to sneak attack damage. If you Power Attack for 5 with a 2-handed weapon you'll also get +10 to damage -- but then the Rogue's AB is +7 compared to the Fighter's +5.

Craven is the feat that makes it possible for a Rogue to be in melee combat without that being foolish.

Most people that run Power Attack also run Shock Trooper. Or Leap Attack. Or any of a dozen other feats that synergize with Power Attack to bring its damage potential above and beyond anything that Craven can do.

Without sacrificing accuracy.

For example: The PA/ST Fighter with a BAB of +10 Power attacks for 10, adn takes it to AC. He's now doing +20 damage, +40 with leap attack.

The Rogue? +10. No matter what else he does, that craven ain't changing.

Don't get me wrong, craven is a great rogue feat.

But it doesn't have the output potential of Power Attack. Not even close. It has nothing to synergize with.

subject42
2009-10-08, 07:05 PM
Melee. Just a knife you put on over your hand, or a severed stump.

Sorry, threat range.

Temet Nosce
2009-10-08, 07:16 PM
Sorry, threat range.

If I recall correctly 19-20, but when you attack anyone you attacked last turn it becomes 17-20. I'd stick with Chainblade to be honest (unless of course I'm remembering this wrong, to lazy to find my copy of the book).

sofawall
2009-10-08, 10:21 PM
It has nothing to synergize with.

TWF, but I see your point.

taltamir
2009-10-08, 10:23 PM
Do keen weapons count?

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the "Mundane" requirement.

the point is to get a 17-20 weapon, then keen it, then add fighter's improved critical... :)

Olo Demonsbane
2009-10-08, 11:02 PM
the point is to get a 17-20 weapon, then keen it, then add fighter's improved critical... :)

Which doesnt stack.

The real trick: +1 Throwing Splitting Aptitude Stump Knives with Improved Critical and Disciple of Disapater, Lighting Maces and Roundhouse Kick.

Korivan
2009-10-09, 04:02 AM
what book is all this from because i think i might build a rouge with this

Some of the uber crit stuff I'm awar of is 3rd party stuff, so its not always allowed by Dm's just to let you know.

First, start with the scyth, high crit damage, low range. (you can reverse this for high crit range, low crit damage, just depends)
Damage: 2d4
Crit range: 20
Multiplier: x4

Then, forge one with the serrated, and lamenated steel qualities. (Third party, AEG Mercinaries.) Lamenated costs 900gp, gives +1 damage, X1 extra multiplier, and +5 hardness. Serrated costs 300gp, gives +1 to threat range.
Damage: 2d4+1
Crit range: 19-20
Multiplier: x5

Next, pick up the Improved Critical Feat. Helps to have a few fighter levels to pick up the extra feats for this and Power Attack. (Scyth is two handed weapon)
Threat range: 17-20

Now, here is where things get tricky. If your evil, you can pick up the Disciple of dispatcher and really amp up your threat range. 9-20 threat range is nothing to sneeze at. Especially with a x5 multiplier attatched to it. Or, you can go the route of Weapon Master. It only tacks on another +2 to range, but gives ya another multiplier, but you dont have to be evil, and you can end the class after only 7 levels, instead of 8. WM is more feat intensive, but it really depends on if you want to be evil for a better range (9-20 as opposed to 15-20), or more damage (x5 as opposed to x6).

Lastly, and this one is the big iffy. WOTC added a high level spell called Excecutioners Eyes in Ice Wind Dale 2. It was high level because it affected everyone in your party. It gives a +4 to attack, and a +4 to the critical threat range. Now, you could reasonably reduce the spell level by restricting it to single target.

All in all, you could be looking at D of D/WM
Damage: 2d4+3/2d4+1
Range: 5-20/11-20
Multiplier: x5/x6

About the only way you could do the above with a rouge, is if your gestalt with a fighter for the bonus feats too.

BenTheJester
2009-10-09, 08:32 AM
Why? Sneak attack damage isn't multiplied, power attack is, a Fighter benefits a lot more. Or a barbarian.

Or play MWF Thri-Kreen Warblade.

Blood in the Water stance adds +1 to damage everytime you crit. With 4 weapons that have a roughly 80% crit range, this is gonna hurt.

Cieyrin
2009-10-09, 11:56 AM
The real trick: +1 Throwing Splitting Aptitude Stump Knives with Improved Critical and Disciple of Disapater, Lighting Maces and Roundhouse Kick.

Olo...it's a stump knife...you attach the thing to the stump where your hand was. That kinda precludes it from being used as a ranged attack, unless your buddy the Goliath with Fling Ally is handy to throw you at your target.

Heliomance
2009-10-09, 04:31 PM
Needs moar Kaorti Resin. Now it's a x6 crit.

I have to ask how a weapon can be made of both Kaorti resin and laminated steel.

PurinaDragonCho
2009-10-09, 04:49 PM
Why? Sneak attack damage isn't multiplied, power attack is, a Fighter benefits a lot more. Or a barbarian.

There's a feat (I can't remember the name - Flensing Strike? - I think it's in the PHBII) that lets you add your sneak attack dice every time you crit. If you crit almost every time you hit, the advantage is obvious.

tyckspoon
2009-10-09, 04:55 PM
There's a feat (I can't remember the name - Flensing Strike? - I think it's in the PHBII) that lets you add your sneak attack dice every time you crit. If you crit almost every time you hit, the advantage is obvious.

Telling Blow. It's normally considered pretty poor, because (1) it doesn't let you double up your sneak attack if the crit already qualified, it just adds a new sneak attack condition (the same way you don't get double sneak if you flank a flat-footed target) and (2) you should be getting sneak attack on almost every attack anyway (especially if you devote as many feats/gp/class levels to it as you would to expanding your crit range that much.)

Doc Roc
2009-10-09, 07:06 PM
Olo...it's a stump knife...you attach the thing to the stump where your hand was. That kinda precludes it from being used as a ranged attack, unless your buddy the Goliath with Fling Ally is handy to throw you at your target.

Oddly, there is not a mechanical representation for the loss of a hand that would represent this. The question is how impressive\weird do you want your use of Throw Anything to actually sound?:wink: