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Ernir
2009-10-09, 01:35 AM
I was toying around making a rather standard ClericZilla, and was trying to optimize for Strength.

The things I assumed as constants:

Race: Aeshkrau Illumian. If we are pumping Strength to high heavens, I want it determining bonus spells too.
Casting: 20/20 Cleric casting. Since we have the Krau sigil, dropping down to 18/20 might be acceptable if it is not the result of templates (the sigil does not compensate there), and it pumps our strength score high enough to compensate for the number of spells lost.
I would like to keep the strength all day. Persisting spells is fine, stuff like the Strength Domain granted power is too situational.
Infinite loops are fun, but I think finite numbers are more so when it comes to D&D. Let's assume Cancer Mages and stat-shuffling is out.

Feel free to discuss it without those restraints of course, those are just the ones I assumed.

I got 70. I am sure we can do much better. I had:
Str = 18 (base) + 5 (Level ups) + 5 (Book) + 6 (Divine Power or item) + 4 (Greater Visage of the Deity) + 32 (Giant Size [through Miracle])

Gametime
2009-10-09, 02:14 AM
RAW, casting both Righteous Might and Giant Size might get you the +4 to strength from Righteous Might on top of the bonuses from Giant Size; nothing says GS gives you size bonuses, and the text of Righteous Might only prohibits the size increases stacking.

Of course, since the text of Righteous Might also seems to indicate that the bonuses are dependent on the increase and no sane DM would rule that Giant Size doesn't give size bonuses, you might not be able to get away with it.

Valiant Fury (Courage Domain, SpC) gives you a +4 morale bonus to Strength (and an extra attack!).

Bite of the Werebear (Druid 6, SpC, can be done with Miracle) gives you a +16 enhancement bonus to Strength (which is obviously better than the +6 from DP/item).

EDIT: This isn't strictly related to increasing strength, but it occurs to me that using some combination of Ruby Knight Vindicator and Quickened Spells/Ordained Champion could be lots of fun. If you've got huge strength buffs that you can persist right before sleeping, then wake up the next day with massive numbers of bonus spells thanks to being an Illumian, and massive numbers of turning attempts thanks to all those Nightsticks, you could burn them all to cast an absurd amount of swift Flamestrikes or what have you every other day.

You know, in case trampling Tokyo the old fashioned way gets old.

SoD
2009-10-09, 02:42 AM
If you're willing to play CE, Lolth-touched template for +6 STR and +6 CON.

Eldariel
2009-10-09, 07:37 AM
Holy Transformation: +4 Sacred
Draconic Polymorph into Firbolg: 36 base + 8 strength
Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms: +12
Persistent Consumptive Fields until you cap out: +2xCL (or unlimited, more likely)

Add to that the mentioned Bite, Giant Size, Greater Visage of the Deity and Valiant Fury for:

36 base + 8 Untyped [Draconic Polymorph] + 12 Untyped [Fuse Arms] + 4 Sacred [Holy Transformation] + 4 Untyped [Greater Visage of the Deity] + 12 Enhancement [Bite of the Werebear] + 32 Size [Giant Size] + 4 Morale [Valiant Fury] + Undeterminable Big Number [Consumptive Field] for a total of 112 Str + Unknown Big Number.

You can add to that Inherents, and you might or might not be able to add level-ups. Also, casting Shapechange can quite possibly find a higher Str form than Firbolg Giant [MM2] as its HD cap is higher.


All of this can be persisted of course, and is trivially available through Domain spells (especially Anyspell + Greater Anyspell; pick up Spell-domain and Domain Spontaneity in it)/Miracle.

Ernir
2009-10-10, 11:29 PM
Hm. Wouldn't Holy Transformation and Giant Size clash rather uncomfortably? One turns you colossal, the other medium.
Still, sacred bonuses are hard to get. :smallfrown:

And Girallon's/Fuse Arms doesn't get us extra spells, unfortunately. Just to-hit and damage.

Can anyone thing of anything more we can get out of (Greater) Anyspell? Insight or Luck bonuses to strength sound odd, but...


36 base + 8 Untyped [Draconic Polymorph] + 12 Untyped [Fuse Arms] + 4 Sacred [Holy Transformation] + 4 Untyped [Greater Visage of the Deity] + 12 Enhancement [Bite of the Werebear] + 32 Size [Giant Size] + 4 Morale [Valiant Fury] + Undeterminable Big Number [Consumptive Field] for a total of 112 Str + Unknown Big Number.

100 strength for extra spells. Ten extra 9th level ones. :smallsmile:

Jack_Simth
2009-10-10, 11:43 PM
If you don't mind being evil, and you don't mind infinite loops, the Book of Vile Darkness has the Cancer Mage PrC - which, as a first level ability, gets "Disease Host" which lets you gain the benefits of diseases without any of their drawbacks. This is not, in and of itself, useful, except that the same book also has Festering Anger ("cumulative" +2 Enhancement to strength each day) and Vile Rigidity (+1 Natural Armor each day). Both diseases have drawbacks that make you want to avoid them... but as written, they'll get you uncapped AC and uncapped strength (both dependant on time).

Alternately, skip the PrC, and just prep a few copies of Lesser Restoration every day to deal with the Con damage (but don't try that with Vile Rigidity, as that's a penalty, rather than damage).

Mongoose87
2009-10-11, 12:02 AM
It seems like this could be done even more effectively with a druid and Wildshape.

Sir Giacomo
2009-10-11, 07:17 AM
The strength domain also provides a (1-round-lasting) STR boost as domain power.

- Giacomo

Eldariel
2009-10-11, 09:13 AM
Hm. Wouldn't Holy Transformation and Giant Size clash rather uncomfortably? One turns you colossal, the other medium.
Still, sacred bonuses are hard to get. :smallfrown:

You cast Holy Transformation first and overlay it with Giant Size; you wanna be Colossal.


And Girallon's/Fuse Arms doesn't get us extra spells, unfortunately. Just to-hit and damage.

What you talking about, Pegasus?! Fuse Arms grants a Strength-buff just as the next spell. It just needs Girallon's Blessing to have hands to fuse.

Myrmex
2009-10-11, 09:15 AM
Holy Transformation: +4 Sacred
Draconic Polymorph into Firbolg: 36 base + 8 strength
Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms: +12
Persistent Consumptive Fields until you cap out: +2xCL (or unlimited, more likely)

Add to that the mentioned Bite, Giant Size, Greater Visage of the Deity and Valiant Fury for:

36 base + 8 Untyped [Draconic Polymorph] + 12 Untyped [Fuse Arms] + 4 Sacred [Holy Transformation] + 4 Untyped [Greater Visage of the Deity] + 12 Enhancement [Bite of the Werebear] + 32 Size [Giant Size] + 4 Morale [Valiant Fury] + Undeterminable Big Number [Consumptive Field] for a total of 112 Str + Unknown Big Number.

You can add to that Inherents, and you might or might not be able to add level-ups. Also, casting Shapechange can quite possibly find a higher Str form than Firbolg Giant [MM2] as its HD cap is higher.


All of this can be persisted of course, and is trivially available through Domain spells (especially Anyspell + Greater Anyspell; pick up Spell-domain and Domain Spontaneity in it)/Miracle.

Firbolg & Giant Size won't stack, will they? Doesn't Giant Size have a non-stacking clause?

Eldariel
2009-10-11, 09:22 AM
Firbolg & Giant Size won't stack, will they? Doesn't Giant Size have a non-stacking clause?

Not the C. Arc. version, at least. But that's pointless 'cause after turning into Firbolg you can cast Holy Transformation to become medium and then Giant Size to gain its full benefits anyways. Polymorph's stat changes aren't typed (even though you'd think the "Large"-part would be typed) and Holy Transformation doesn't lower your Str for lowering your size.

NoldorForce
2009-10-11, 09:30 AM
If you don't mind being evil...well, you can pull some hijinks besides Cancer Mage. Specifically, Extended Psychic Drain. With enough CL boosts (like, you know, Consumptive Field and Greater Consumptive Field) you can make that spell last all day. For +2*CL to your strength (just make sure your target can ignore/heal ability drain!). It's an enhancement bonus, however, so Bite of the Werebear won't stack.

Edit: Not Psychic Drain, Power Leech. (BoVD)

Myrmex
2009-10-11, 09:42 AM
Not the C. Arc. version, at least. But that's pointless 'cause after turning into Firbolg you can cast Holy Transformation to become medium and then Giant Size to gain its full benefits anyways. Polymorph's stat changes aren't typed (even though you'd think the "Large"-part would be typed) and Holy Transformation doesn't lower your Str for lowering your size.

Niiiiiice.

Ernir
2009-10-11, 11:42 AM
What you talking about, Pegasus?! Fuse Arms grants a Strength-buff just as the next spell. It just needs Girallon's Blessing to have hands to fuse.

Humm. I am quoting here, SpC 100:

For every set of limbs fused into the primary set of limbs, the creature gains +4 to Strength when using those fused arms (affecting activities that would use those limbs, but not activities relying on its bite, legs, and so on).
Emphasis mine.

Has this spell been printed differently elsewhere or something? :smallconfused:


Not the C. Arc. version, at least. But that's pointless 'cause after turning into Firbolg you can cast Holy Transformation to become medium and then Giant Size to gain its full benefits anyways. Polymorph's stat changes aren't typed (even though you'd think the "Large"-part would be typed) and Holy Transformation doesn't lower your Str for lowering your size.
Now that is one awesome way to do it. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2009-10-11, 12:06 PM
Humm. I am quoting here, SpC 100:

Emphasis mine.

Has this spell been printed differently elsewhere or something? :smallconfused:

That's how it's printed. Just...if you only have those limbs, I'd argue it increases your overall Str. Meh.

Myrmex
2009-10-11, 05:47 PM
That's how it's printed. Just...if you only have those limbs, I'd argue it increases your overall Str. Meh.

Well, do Illumians use their arm strength to prepare spells? It reads more like you get an effective +4 to strength for certain activities, not a universal +4 to strength.