Epinephrine
2009-10-09, 09:38 AM
Wondering how other Pathfinder DMs are handling monsters with spell abilities/class levels and concentration.
In 3.5 it is very difficult to disrupt the concentration of a dragon or devil, for example, as they likely have their concentration check maxed on a large number of HD.
Under PF rules by RAW, a dragon with a large number of hit dice but a low caster level would be easy to disrupt, since one uses the caster level plus ability mod for the check.
e.g., Adult Black Dragon; caster level 3rd, 19 HD, 19 Con, 12 Cha
In 3.5, dragon would have 22 ranks in Concentration, +4 Con bonus for a +26 Concentration check.
In PF, dragon has a +4 (+3 for level, +1 for Cha) Concentration check.
I find this problematic, as I picture a 150 year old dragon being hard to distract.
Personally, I'd tend to use full HD for creatures that have innate casting like this.
The second issue comes with spell like abilities and class levels. Say you have an Erinyes (which has spell like abilities) and who also then takes levels in a spellcasting class or prestige class (say, mortal hunter from BoVD).
Caster level for spell likes doesn't advance, so despite being a higher level opponent, her Concentration check for spell likes is weaker than it should be for a creature of her level.
Caster level for the class-based spells is also low, resulting in horrible Concentration checks on these spells.
In 3.5 an Erinyes has a +17 Concentration check, so one would assume an advance on (say, 5 levels of mortal hunter) would likely have a +22 Concentration.
In PF, the Erinyes would have a concentration check of 12 (caster level) + 5 (Charisma) or +17 for spell-likes; a bit low, but not horrid. Concentration check for the mortal hunter spells is only +5 (level) +5 (Charisma), or +10.
Again, my temptation is to use full HD for it.
Does this seem reasonable to you?
Should concentration always be max(HD,caster level)+casting stat for monsters? Should advancing HD in non-caster classes boost concentration? Racial HD?
Thanks
In 3.5 it is very difficult to disrupt the concentration of a dragon or devil, for example, as they likely have their concentration check maxed on a large number of HD.
Under PF rules by RAW, a dragon with a large number of hit dice but a low caster level would be easy to disrupt, since one uses the caster level plus ability mod for the check.
e.g., Adult Black Dragon; caster level 3rd, 19 HD, 19 Con, 12 Cha
In 3.5, dragon would have 22 ranks in Concentration, +4 Con bonus for a +26 Concentration check.
In PF, dragon has a +4 (+3 for level, +1 for Cha) Concentration check.
I find this problematic, as I picture a 150 year old dragon being hard to distract.
Personally, I'd tend to use full HD for creatures that have innate casting like this.
The second issue comes with spell like abilities and class levels. Say you have an Erinyes (which has spell like abilities) and who also then takes levels in a spellcasting class or prestige class (say, mortal hunter from BoVD).
Caster level for spell likes doesn't advance, so despite being a higher level opponent, her Concentration check for spell likes is weaker than it should be for a creature of her level.
Caster level for the class-based spells is also low, resulting in horrible Concentration checks on these spells.
In 3.5 an Erinyes has a +17 Concentration check, so one would assume an advance on (say, 5 levels of mortal hunter) would likely have a +22 Concentration.
In PF, the Erinyes would have a concentration check of 12 (caster level) + 5 (Charisma) or +17 for spell-likes; a bit low, but not horrid. Concentration check for the mortal hunter spells is only +5 (level) +5 (Charisma), or +10.
Again, my temptation is to use full HD for it.
Does this seem reasonable to you?
Should concentration always be max(HD,caster level)+casting stat for monsters? Should advancing HD in non-caster classes boost concentration? Racial HD?
Thanks