Please give feedback - Simpler casting

[sdream]

3.5 Simple Casting is designed to be a mechanical modification to 3.5 where spells prepared for casting and spell tokens available to spend by casting are physical objects you move around. It is a hybrid between prepared and spontaneous casting, with a hint of a mana based system, designed to make casters more flexible and easier to play (and easier for the DM to keep an eye on, with less paperwork).

Along the way I've simplified some complex things (familiars and companions) and done a bit of class balance tweaking. (reigning in CODzilla, buffing low tiers)

All Simple casters learn and prepare spells much like wizards do.

They can prepare a spell from any scroll or spellbook/prayerbook/naturebook they come across with the following conditions:
- the spell is on their class list (cleric, druid, or mage - although specialization and domains modify the lists)
- they must be able to read the language the spell description is written in
- they must succeed in deciphering the magical diagrams (read magic makes this automatic)
- the effective spell level cannot exceed half their mage level (rounding up)
- they can concentrate completely on this task for one minute (10 turns)
- they have int, wisdom, and charisma scores above 0.

At any given time the maximum number of spells they may have prepared is:
- half effective caster level (rounding up) plus stat modifiers (wisdom AND int)
- never less than one spell, regardless of negative levels or negative stat modifiers

Once prepared, spells are not lost when cast, but only when:
- they die
- they choose to forget them to prepare a different spell
- they must choose one to be lost due to level or stat loss

Any prepared spell can also be written into a spellbook for later (or others):
- this takes 10 minutes + one page per level
- cantrips take 0 pages (they are simple enough to prepare through memory)
- good waterproof and fireproof ink and paper is expensive (100gp per page)
- you CAN use cheap ink+paper, although it is often ruined on adventures

Physically, during gameplay:
- If you have lots of table space, you can write your spells on small cards, pulling out the ones you have prepared and leaving your spellbook and scrolls in the deck.
- I prefer to use spells written on 1/4" by 2" strips, inserting prepared ones into the slots formed by stapling a small folded paper every 1/3" or so.


They can cast very few high level spells each day, although many lower level spells.

Anyone with a partial level of any casting class can cast effective level 0 spells all day, as often as they wish.

They still must prepare the level 0 spells, even though casting them requires no tokens.

Regardless of level, casting any spell requires concentration, and the caster must have above 0 scores in intelligence, wisdom, and charisma.

After 8 hours of rest, simple casters recieve spell tokens like sorcerers, redeemable to cast a spell of a certain level.

Unlike sorcerers, they only recieve one token for their max level spell on odd levels, and two on even levels.

They can spend these tokens to cast powerful spells, or they can break them into three tokens for spells one level lower.

Thus a 9th level caster could cast one level 5 spell, or up to 81 1st level spells (or some mix of spells level 1-4).

They cannot save these tokens if not used before they rest again, but they can gain extra spell tokens from resting with magical gems. These simple pearls of power cost 1k per level 1 spell token granted daily (1k for level 1, 81k for level 5). Much more expensive at high levels than pearl of power, but more flexible and useful also.

Physically, during gameplay:
- Poker chips make fun spell tokens.
- Small card or paper squares would do in a pinch.
- I prefer bingo chips with the spell level written on them. They are pretty, durable, small, cheap, and fun to cash in.
- For each caster the most you could possibly need is 3 of each level (otherwise you can just make change).


They cast very flexibly, spontaneously, and metamagically.

Any caster (yes, even divine) can cast spells in armor without chance of spell failure only if:
- They have a class perk that allows this (see bard, paladin, ranger)
- They have an approved feat that does this (there's one in some splat book)
- The armor has 0% chance of ASF (robes, vests, twilight, etc)

Besides spending tokens to cast from their prepared spell slots, they can also cast some spells without preparing them.

Basically, some spells are considered "always prepared", generally one spell of each level, and the list varies by class.

They may use any spell on their spell list from a scrolls, wands, or staff without making a UMD roll, even if they could not prepare that spell yet, although this takes one full round per level the spell exceeds the spell levels they may prepare. They can also use the UMD skill as normal.

They have one built in metamagic feat called boost, which increases the effective level of a spell by one for all purposes (including cost), and also increases their effective caster level for that spell by two. They may stack this effect as many times as they wish, as long as they can afford the higher slots.

Applying any metamagic, including boost, is something mages can do easily to any spell as they cast it, without increasing the casting time (although they must pay the increased spell level cost).

All spells cast have a save DC equal to 10 + effective spell level + charisma modifier, and all metamagic feats DO count for increasing effective spell level.

Physically, during gameplay:
- I write the spontaneous spells and metamagic available to me on my prepared spell holder so I remember them.
- Applying metamagic right when you spend your tokens makes it easy to use and pay for.

[sdream]

The pure caster classes redone simply:

- Simple mages = sorcerer/wizard hybrid

1/2 BAB, no armor proficiency, simple weapons, d4 HD, good will save, 2+int skill points per level

Use wizard/sorcerer spell list, but every spell added to spellbook requires DM approval and a reason.

They come from diverse backgrounds, so class skills are concentration, spellcraft, decipher script and any 3 other you want.

The following spells are considered always prepared for simple mages (and specialists, and bards):
level 0 spell - Detect Magic
level 1 spell - Identify
level 2 spell - See Invisibility
level 3 spell - Arcane Sight
level 4 spell - Scrying
level 5 spell - Permanency
level 6 spell - True Seeing
level 7 spell - Limited Wish
level 8 spell - Moment of Prescience
level 9 spell - Wish

Simple mages also may bind a familiar, or fragment of their soul, to any tiny creature. Often a pet or common animal in their society, but may be re-incarnated or polymorphed into any shape. Regardless of appearance, all familiars statistics are the same, depending primarily on their owner.
- 1/2 the owner's HP (1/4 if can fly - 60' good)
- same saves, skills, stats as owner (counting long term changes like gear and constant buffs, but not short term changes)
- size difference usually increases AC, sneaking skills, and to hit, and reduces grappling relative to owner
- attacks do 1d2 (no strength bonus) using owner's best long term attack bonus, and are considered magical
- a familiar has the same senses as their owner (again long term) but don't roll spot/search checks unless separated
- while not separated from their owner, their assistance amounts to the feat awareness
- while both parties live, they share an empathic connection, knowing the rough location and feelings/urges of the other
- if either party dies or leaves plane, the other gains a negative level which cannot be removed until the other is back on the same plane
- each counts as part of the other for spells which require a part of the other such as simulacrum, scry, raise dead, etc.
- a familiar can only use one magical item at a time, of any type you can justify
- a familiar acts on your turn, but has their own actions and movement (30' land)
- when you use any spell or spell like ability on yourself, your familiar may also gain the same benefit if it is within 30' and spends a swift action
- when you cast any spell that requires touch or an attack roll, you may have your familiar deliver it instead if within 30'
- familiars understand any language you do, but cannot speak (although they may write if given the supplies and you know how)
- familiars may hide on your person as a free action if they are in your square, becoming immune to all effects (although if you go down, they are exposed - this is mostly just codifying people's tendency to forget them when they are not useful - see blackwing)

At 3rd mage level, and every 3 after that (not counting effective levels gained through Prestige classes, or simple bard levels) a simple mage picks a mage perk:
- any magic related feat you qualify for
- +1/4 caster HP for familiar
- add 30' to all movement speeds of your familiar
- the ability for their familiar to use one additional magic item
- the ability for their familiar to prepare one cantrip and cast "always prepared" spells (just as you do, using your tokens)
- the ability for their familiar to prepare one spell and cast one spell per day (may stack up to X spells prepared, X spells per day)
- the ability to summon your familiar to your side (or vice versa) if in the same plane (takes one minute of concentration by both parties)
- the ability for your familiar to speak with animals (as spell) and in any language you know
- the ability for your familiar and you to share senses and communicate across any distance on the same plane (requires concentration by one party)


- Simple specialists = mages with more power, but less flexibility

All class specifics as simple mages except:

A simple specialist chooses one school of spell (not divination or universal) to be innately gifted at.

All spells of that school are effectively one level lower, for all purposes, including learning, casting, resisting, and penetrating.

They give up much for this focus, however:
- they cannot ever cross class with simple mage or a different specialist school
- they must choose two schools (not divination or universal) to no longer consider on their spell list for any purpose.
- they can no longer spontaneously cast the mage spells, although they can prepare them without spellbooks
- their familiar shares their focus so if they choose the cantrip perk it can only cast the "always" spells after preparing them


- Simple clerics = clerics as flexible as simple mages

3/4 BAB, light armor proficiency and simple weapon proficiency, d6 hd, good will save, skills, spell list as a cleric.

The following spells are considered always prepared:
level 0 spell - Cure Minor wounds
level 1 spell - Cure Light wounds
level 2 spell - Cure Medium wounds
level 3 spell - Cure Serious Wounds
level 4 spell - Cure Critical Wounds
level 5 spell - True Seeing
level 6 spell - Heal
level 7 spell - Holy Word
level 8 spell - Antimagic Field
level 9 spell - Miracle

Their domain spells (one per level) are considered one level lower for all purposes, as if specialized.

In addition at third level and every third level after that (only counting real cleric levels, not PrC, bard, or paladin levels) choose a cleric perk:

- Any magic related feat they qualify for
- One additional time per day may turn or control undead, spirit creatures, or outsiders from positive or negative plane
- Add more stuff later

Must prepare and cast all other spells from their prayer book/scrolls just like all other casters, including chance of spell failure in armor.


- Simple druid = druids as flexible as simple mages

3/4 BAB, light armor proficiency and simple weapons, d6 HD, good will save, skills and spells as a druid.

Cure Minor Wounds (1hp) and summon nature's ally spells are treated as always prepared.

Must prepare and cast other spells from their nature scrapbook/scrolls and have the same armor casting failure issues as all other casters.

Druids have an animal companion which is identical to a familiar, except
- it is medium sized (and thus cannot hide behind it's owner)
- it has the same HP as its owner (3/4 if flying - 60' good)
- it's attacks do 1d6 instead of 1d2

At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, choose one of the following druid perks:
- companion gains +1/4 owner HP
- companion gains +30' base movement
- companion is treated as large size just for carrying people and grappling
- companion gains +3 natural AC bonus
- Companion gains +2 to hit and damage
- Companion gains a monster feat or ability as approved by DM
- Camouflage (you and companion may hide without cover or concealment, in any natural setting)
- Hide in plain sight (you and companion may hide even while being watched, in any natural setting)
- Swift hunter (may move normally through any natural terrain without penalty, despite tracking, hiding, or undergrowth)
- Wild shape (as a spell like ability you may change your shape to that of any animal you are familiar with)
-- the duration of this change is instant (permanent unless used again)
-- your companion may mimic this spell like ability when you use it within 30' as normal for SLAs
-- your stats and size remain identical, and all equipment (except ranged weapons) melds and remains functional
-- you gain only the appearance and movement types of the form (companion loses 1/4 your HP as usual in flight forms)
-- to speak, cast spells, change equipped items, or use your hands you must return to human shape

[sdream]

And the half casters, redone simply:

Simple bard - battle 2/3 caster - very flexible

3/4 BAB, light armor proficiency, d6 HD, good reflex and will saves, bard skills

Their bardic inspiration effect is simplified - it is a +1 morale bonus to attacks, damage, and saving throws they can use as a standard action at any time, but only effects bardic level allies for one minute. This progresses through bardic perks, not levels.

At first level can prepare and cast ANY 0 level spell, and are able to cast cure minor wounds (1hp) and detect magic at will (always prepared).

At second level they must choose a focus:
- they can progress as a cleric, with 2/3 priest effective casting levels, domain and always spells
- or they can progress as a mage or specialist, with 2/3 casting levels, familiar, and always spells

At 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th bardic level when their spellcasting and familiar does not increase, they choose a bardic perk:
- any mage perk of their choice (if mage path)
- any cleric perk of their choice (if cleric path)
- any feat of their choice which they qualify for
- +1 improvement to their bardic music's morale bonuses.
- ability to ignore a heavier class of armor for spell failure (light, then medium, then heavy, then shields)



- Simple paladin = battle 1/2 caster cleric

Full BAB, d8 hd, Good fort and will saves, 4 + int mod skill points per level.

Proficient in medium armor and all simple and martial weapons.

On first level they gain immunity to fear and disease as well as the ability to prepare and cast cleric cantrips.

On second and subsequent levels they gain effective spellcasting and turning as 1/2 (round down) their paladin levels in simple cleric, including boost, spontaneous spells, and a domain.

On third level and all later odd levels (when their spellcasting does not progress) they choose a paladin perk:
- a cleric perk of their choice
- cure disease +1 times per day
- +4 save vs. fear sacred bonus to all nearby allies (stacks with self)
- +2 sacred bonus to all saving throws (stacks with self)
- add paladin level damage to any successful attack on oppositely alligned foe +1 times per day
- +1 times paladin level hp available to heal by touch each day
- detect alignment at will
- the ability to cast spells without chance of failure in light, then medium, then heavy, then shielded armor

Simple paladins can cross class freely with cleric levels (same diety, same domain) and their spellcasting stacks. For the increase in skill, casting and perk flexibility they must purchase and train their mounts like the rest of us, and they only get d8 hd.


- Simple ranger = battle 1/2 caster druid

Full BAB, d8 hd, Good fort and reflex saves, 6+int mod skill points per level

Medium armor proficiency, and may choose one martial weapon to be proficient in.

On first level they gain a companion (just as simple druids) and tracking, as well as the ability to cast Druid cantrips.

On second and subsequent levels they gain effective spellcasting as 1/2 (round down) their ranger levels in simple druid, including boost, cantrips, and spontaneous spells.

On third level and all later odd levels (when their spellcasting does not progress) they choose a ranger perk:
- a druid perk of their choice
- Evasion, then Improved Evasion
- Two weapon fighting, then Improved, then Greater, regardless of requirements
- Any archery feat they desire, regardless of requirements
- the ability to cast spells without chance of failure in light, then medium, then heavy, then shielded armor


- Simple fighter = a 0/2 caster, but easy to cross class now

Full BAB, d10 hd, 6 + int mod skill points per level

Good fort save and reflex save

Proficiency with all armor and all weapons except exotic.

Choose a bonus combat related feat every level.

Simple fighters cross class freely with anything, I gave them the bonus feats and skill points they deserve for their lively lifestyle.


- Simple rogue = a battler with special abilities

3/4 BAB, d6 hd, 8 + int mod skill points per level

Good reflex save

Proficiency with light armor, simple weapons and any two martial weapons of your choice.

At first and all odd levels gain an extra d6 damage applied to any target you damage which would be denied it's dex bonus to AC, or which you flank. This bonus sneak damage only applies when you are able to target weak points (in general with weapons that are light, ranged, or finessable, on creatures of understandable anatamy, within base range for ranged weapons).

At second and all even levels choose a rogue perk from the following:

- any combat related feat you qualify for
- Evasion then Improved Evasion
- Can use their dex bonus to AC even when surprised (only lost when thoroughly immobilized)
- Can no longer be flanked
- Add rogue levels to Search ability, allowing the discovery of difficult traps and secret doors
- Choose one skill and be able to take 10 or 20 on it regardless of circumstances
- Gain an extra will save against any mind controlling effect
- Mutilate - forgo 1d6 sneak damage to deal 1d6 stat damage instead (stat of your choice). You may take this perk multiple times (forgoing more sneak damage for more stat damage).
- Opportunist - May make one attack of opportunity against any foe damaged (not by you) that you threaten. If you are capable of making more than one attack of opportunity you may take this perk multiple times to use these attacks, but you may never make more than one attack of opportunity on the same foe in the same round.


- Simple barbarian and monk - to be determined.

[lesser_minion]

OK, well the main problem is that it's a little hard to read.

From what I can tell, you're suggesting the following basic rules for your mage:


Spellcasting: A mage is able to cast arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard list. She uses her charisma modifier to determine save DCs and any other effects dependent on casting ability score, but not bonus spells.

A mage may cast any spell she has readied (see below), but will eventually exhaust her powers if she overuses them. If this happens, she may only cast cantrips until she has recovered. Recovery requires not less than eight hours of rest. Spells cast during the previous rest cycle do not contribute to exhausting the mage's powers.

By default, the mage will exhaust her magic after casting the equivalent of one spell of her maximum level. Casting three spells of a given level is the equivalent of casting one spell of a level higher. At an even numbered level, she may instead cast the equivalent of two spells of her highest spell level known.

Cantrips may be used at will, even when the mage has exhausted her powers. They do not contribute to the mage exhausting her powers, but she must ready them like any other spell.

Note that a mage's powers automatically become exhausted if she dies and is revived using magic, unless the spell used to do so specifically states that it does not cause the loss of prepared spells.

The maximum spell level a mage may cast is equal to (1 + caster level)/2.


Spells Readied: The maximum number of spells a mage may have readied at any one time equals her level plus her intelligence modifier. This may not be less than one.

To ready a spell on her class spell list, or another arcane spell the DM is willing to permit her to learn, the mage must study it for one minute from an arcane magical writing she has successfully deciphered. Once she has a spell readied, she may transcribe it freely into a spellbook or similar text.


Mages and Metamagic: A mage may learn metamagic feats normally.

A mage may apply metamagic feats to her spells when she readies them, in which case the only penalty she suffers is an increase in the effective level of the spell.

Alternatively, a mage may choose to apply one or more feats to a spell as it is being cast, in which case she suffers a casting time penalty, in the same way as a sorcerer or other spontaneous caster who uses metamagic.


OK, now for the comments.

Firstly, you've basically implemented a spell points system, but made it harder to understand. The spell slots progression seems like it might be a bit off as well - the caster's power doubles on even levels and goes up by 50% on odd levels.

I'd guess that your ideas put casters somewhere around tier 3 for the most part, although a little more work might help. In particular, I think you might want to consider reducing the number of spells readied slightly - 1/2 caster level + int modifier would work fine, IMHO.

Good points:

I liked the way you factored intelligence and charisma into spellcasting - definitely keep this. I quite liked the spells readied mechanic. It makes sense, and I think it makes a decent compromise between sorcerers and wizards.


If your main problem with spell points is the large numbers, you might want to adapt Surgo's rules for Spell Points. Using those, you pick up a number of points of weakness depending on the spell level when you cast a spell, and you can either keep casting or rest and wait for the points to go away.

If you allowed casters to accumulate 20 points of weakness, had spells cost 18 + 2 x spell level to cast, had the cost drop by one point every level, and used your current readied spells mechanic, you would probably end up with a pretty good system.

[sdream]

OK, well the main problem is that it's a little hard to read.


Your synopsis was amazingly easier to glance over, I'll work on simplifying and dividing better.




The spell slots progression seems like it might be a bit off as well - the caster's power doubles on even levels and goes up by 50% on odd levels.


Intentional. It doubles when you are just better mastering the spell levels you know, but only increases by 50% when you get access to an entirely new level of magic.




I'd guess that your ideas put casters somewhere around tier 3 for the most part, although a little more work might help. In particular, I think you might want to consider reducing the number of spells readied slightly - 1/2 caster level + int modifier would work fine, IMHO.


Decent. I also think a bit of a boost for fighters is in order.



If your main problem with spell points is the large numbers, you might want to adapt Surgo's rules for Spell Points. Using those, you pick up a number of points of weakness depending on the spell level when you cast a spell, and you can either keep casting or rest and wait for the points to go away.

If you allowed casters to accumulate 20 points of weakness, had spells cost 18 + 2 x spell level to cast, had the cost drop by one point every level, and used your current readied spells mechanic, you would probably end up with a pretty good system.

I LOVE the fatigue mechanic for casting, ever since I heard about it in BESM. It's like more realistic mana. That points system sonds OK, but I'm trying the balance on this and spell coins seem fun. Also more rolling on each spell is bad, when we usually have saves, damage, and maybe attack and SR.

Thanks for your help, and good ideas. I reworked my posts, structured things a bit clearer, and applied a lot of tweaks. Still a bit more to go.

[sdream]

Just updated with the ideas I had been kicking around - and just included rogue. Only 2 core classes to go. Would love feedback on how balanced they are now - been trying to bring up all the low tiers (and not just by allowing easier caster levels) and bring down CODzilla.

Still have some work to do, but very happy with the most recent changes - feel it has much better balance and flexibility, and finally gives mages a reason to keep maging instead of prestiging.

Anyone know how I could add " and class rebalance (3.5)" to the end of the thread title on the main thread screen?