Not quite there. [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Omergideon

2009-10-09, 10:54 AM

Please bear with this one.

I am curious as to which strips people think are the weakest of the comic. Now I am not looking to bash the comic or say it sucks. I love the OoTS. But amongst all the gems and comedy gold there are a couple of comics that everyone finds fall a little flat. Maybe the joke just wasn't your style. Maybe you felt the plot was off kilter. Maybe you just felt it was missed potential. All I want to know is 2 thinks.

1)Are there any comics you felt were weaker than most?
2)If so which ones? and
3) What exactly was the problem?

I hope nobody does try to bash things they just didn't like. I truly am curious.

OITS

2009-10-09, 11:02 AM

I'd say the OotS has left the point where you judge single comics. It is a whole THING, you know, there have to be cliffhangers, unlikeable plot twists, plot-threads that build up for some weeks and therefore feel not-so-filled-with-total-ultimate-comedic-power. You may say that one comic or the other is extraordinarily funny, but each and every comic has it's reason to be there. Except some (readers question, fight of the food,...), but those are usually funny.

Zeitgeist

2009-10-09, 11:46 AM

At one point, I read a comic and was like "well that was blah."

But I've since forgotten which comic it was at all, thus reinforcing this:

I'd say the OotS has left the point where you judge single comics.

JaxGaret

2009-10-09, 11:49 AM

Some of the early comics feel this way to me when I reread them. The slightly lower quality of artwork and some of the jokes just aren't up to the high standard that Rich set later in the comic.

Kaytara

2009-10-09, 02:08 PM

Not to mention the wild degree of subjectivity on this matter.

Gullara

2009-10-09, 02:22 PM

Honestly I can't find a single one that wasn't interesting or funny in some way, and I just resently read the whole comic over again.

Prowl

2009-10-10, 04:36 AM

Omergideon

2009-10-10, 06:55 AM

I agree that the comic is best judged as a whole, but I have found several individual comics that don't work for me. For instance the early comics, pre-plot, are more hit and miss for humour in my eyes and seem rather too disjointed in places for me to really enjoy. Or for instance comic 150 where Durkon explains his hatred/fear of trees. For me it is not that great for the following.

1) The joke just does not seem funny to me. I am not amused by irrational fears as a joke. Dunno why.
2) It birthed the tree running gag which I find to be weak as well and unnecessary. Simply put the gag is not one I find funny later either.
3) It bears no greater relation to the plot or has good character study, philosophy etc, which has redeemed several of the not funny comics for me in the past.
So as a whole I find it unfunnny and unnecessary and if I reread the comic I skip it.

Just to round off, indeed sometimes a comic takes on a new significance when it is reread later on and so I think first impressions may not always count when you review them. Also this is very much opinion. That is the point. I am wondering what people's opinions are on this topic. nothing else.

DrGonzo

2009-10-10, 08:13 AM

#676 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html) stands out to me as particularly bad. It'll be a long time before the, um... 'taint' of that one wears off. Hundreds of strips up to that point and I never thought any was particularly weak until that one. The whole desert town set of strips was below average, but that one was really bad.

Hmm.. The cart o gophers joke made me smile..

This is really very subjective. I can remember a single comic I didn't like. Some are not as good as others, but none of them are bad..

- DrGonzo

Ichneumon

2009-10-10, 08:36 AM

I agree most of the one page joke comics of late in the desert are quite below average and not truly very funny.

Kroy

2009-10-10, 10:28 AM

439 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html). Really? I wouldn't be so annoyed if it didn't spark a "Belkar is a god who we must tell people about every post" cult.

Kish

2009-10-10, 11:00 AM

439 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html). Really? I wouldn't be so annoyed if it didn't spark a "Belkar is a god who we must tell people about every post" cult.
The cult existed long before that, that strip just gave them the specific phrase "Sexy Shoeless God of War." Be comforted by the knowledge that Belkar is doomed.

DrGonzo

2009-10-10, 01:23 PM

The cult existed long before that, that strip just gave them the specific phrase "Sexy Shoeless God of War." Be comforted by the knowledge that Belkar is doomed.

Well, he is going to die, but that doesn't mean he will be out of the picture.. Roy's been dead for a while, but he stayed around as a spirit. Maybe the Belkster will find a way to haunt the order.. Maybe try and see V naked or something.

- DrGonzo

Ancalagon

2009-10-10, 01:34 PM

The comics I do not find to be the "worst" ones but those that "annoy" me most are those where a good story- or plotpoint gets ruined by some stupid joke that HAS to get pressed into the last panel for those "who come here for the giggles alone".

What made Start of Darkness so much better than the rest of the OotS was that the story and drama were there as well as the jokes - but if no joke was fitting, none was squeezed in.
The online-comic is a contrast: Here we ALWAYS get some punchline, may it "ruin" it the two-side-comic before or not.

Of course not everything is A-material in such a large work as this here, I do not mind if something "does not work" or just is a bit more lame than the rest. But putting final jokes for the sake of a joke (any joke!) makes me say "Ouch!" every time.

The Pale King

2009-10-10, 03:01 PM

To be honest, some of the earliest comics do this for me. Partly because some relied almost entirely on Dn'D rules jokes, and since I have never actually played the game (although I grasp the basic mechanics enough to understand the comic). But a lot of it was the comic hadn't really evolved yet. The plot was pretty standard (was the Snarl plot planned since the beginning or did it come later on?) and the characters were somewhat flat. For example, could you see them simply leaving team-member somewhere and not noticing until several strips later? The first book did get closer to the evolved comic as it went on though.

Optimystik

2009-10-10, 08:38 PM

#674 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html) was the biggest miss for me - giving Haley amnesia for the sake of a joke still feels a bit contrived.

Also, Celia.

Haven

2009-10-10, 08:47 PM

Recently, 668 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) did this for me for a few reasons: long walls of text (which doesn't really tell us anything we didn't know, or couldn't have figured out, until near the end, if then), no real jokes, but most importantly the colors involved are just really grating. It all sort of blends together, and it's not kind to the eye.

Also, 226 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0226.html) was pretty weak IMO, although it did set up the situation in the next few weeks which was quite entertaining. Though I do like that whenever human kingdoms in that area of the world are mentioned, they keep that naming scheme. Maybe if it had been introduced earlier--given as a visual gag about lazy worldbuilding--it would have been stronger. But it just sort of feels forced and the joke isn't strong enough, IMO.

Lupy

2009-10-10, 09:03 PM

I've like the desert thus far.

I feel that the strips with Celia in them were sometimes more annoying than funny though.

Boogastreehouse

2009-10-10, 10:12 PM

moondog

2009-10-10, 10:18 PM

Also, 226 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0226.html) was pretty weak IMO

aaand here we get into the subjectivity of such a question. i LOVE this particular strip, it has a very monty python absurdity to it that you just don't get without directly referencing monty python (like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) just picking a strip at random ;) )

Herald Alberich

2009-10-10, 10:36 PM

aaand here we get into the subjectivity of such a question. i LOVE this particular strip, it has a very monty python absurdity to it that you just don't get without directly referencing monty python (like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) just picking a strip at random ;) )

Or Abbot & Costello? This is a classic Who's on First (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_qa6swnOM) style sketch.

Optimystik

2009-10-10, 10:36 PM

Oh man, if I were The Giant I just know that I'd be overjoyed to see a whole thread dedicated to all of my biggest mistakes, flops and failures.

I know that this is exactly the sort of thing that would keep me inspired and motivated to keep cranking out quality comics and meeting deadlines.

How did you go from "Fall a little flat," "off kilter" and "missed potential" to "flops and failures?" :smallconfused:

For that matter, what deadline?

dps

2009-10-10, 10:48 PM

I think that the Order of the Scibble strips were some of the weakest. LOTS of exposition that didn't involve characters that we'd met before. It was necessary to advance the plot, and the strips weren't bad, just not as good as OotS usually is.

Turkish Delight

2009-10-10, 11:09 PM

Oh man, if I were The Giant I just know that I'd be overjoyed to see a whole thread dedicated to all of my biggest mistakes, flops and failures.

I know that this is exactly the sort of thing that would keep me inspired and motivated to keep cranking out quality comics and meeting deadlines.

If the Giant is put into a funk by criticism, he's probably better off not reading past, 'I am curious as to which strips people think are the weakest of the comic.' If he does so, he has only himself to blame.

Puns de León

2009-10-11, 01:49 AM

Some of the early comics feel this way to me when I reread them. The slightly lower quality of artwork and some of the jokes just aren't up to the high standard that Rich set later in the comic.

On the contrary, I always have a wonderful time re-reading the first 120 strips. The jokes are quite simple but very good. It's nice to look back on the days before the introduction of a sometimes cumbersome plotline.

Likewise, I thought 226, 439 and the Crayon Exposition strips to be great.
It's the recent ones that have been disappointing for me. The first full comic I have found up to par since the break is #684 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html) (possibly because it is reminiscent of #41 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html), now that I think about it). Others have had nice moments, but the main joke is rather contrived/requires a suspension of belief and continuity.

However, I think there is also a nostalgia factor involved. I have detected a decline in quality before, and then revisited the same strips a few months later to find them more acceptable.

Incidentally, I have found with many other works that as the level of the artwork improves, the general quality of the actual written output declines. To me it appears to be a universal trend.

Ancalagon

2009-10-11, 04:20 AM

Oh man, if I were The Giant I just know that I'd be overjoyed to see a whole thread dedicated to all of my biggest mistakes, flops and failures.

I know that this is exactly the sort of thing that would keep me inspired and motivated to keep cranking out quality comics and meeting deadlines.

He'll get there's opinions. And closing the eyes from the fact that nothing always works out as hoped isn't a good thing either.

Just take 226 as example... something said it's weak - I say it's one of the good strips.

maxon

2009-10-11, 06:48 AM

I have generally enjoyed this comic from start to - well, not finish but this point anyway. The one page I really disliked was 251 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html). I know it was meant to be a joke about DMs railroading players into going where they had planned but for me, in the context of the story as a whole which had been developing some way in a more conventional literary sense by that point, it's clunky and nastily done. In a book (and I say this in the full realisation that this is not a book but on online comic), that situation could and should have been resolved by other means. It stands out to me as just wrong. It infuriated me so much, I actually stopped reading for about three months. However, after a while I realised that one annoying page wasn't going to stop me enjoying the rest. Can't always have what you want.

Omergideon

2009-10-11, 09:49 AM

He'll get there's opinions. And closing the eyes from the fact that nothing always works out as hoped isn't a good thing either.

Just take 226 as example... something said it's weak - I say it's one of the good strips.

Precisely.

A good writer (such as the Giant) is able to take well meant critiques and learn from them to improve his craft. For instance if there was a consistent set of reasons, or a single strip that was consistently brought up as weaker, then it can be looked at and learnt from. And note I did say that the intent was not to bash the comic.

veti

2009-10-13, 02:59 PM

I too found 226 pretty weak.

But one of my least favourite is one of those that regularly tops other people's charts. 496 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html) introduces a new character who's never been mentioned before (or since, for that matter), and then expects us to have some sort of emotions to him. Weak. Very weak.

I'm also not keen on those that make random, intrusive (to me) pop culture references. 91 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html), 301 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html), 322 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html), 560 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html). (Particularly when they're referring to things I've never seen, which is true of 91 and 322.) But other people seem to love them. So - whatever.