PDA

View Full Version : 2 Questions



Melamoto
2009-10-09, 12:45 PM
I have 2 mostly separate questions, but I won't make 2 different threads for them. They're both for the same character. Anyway:

Mass Proficiencies

I want to be able to use 3 different things, and use them moderately well each. These things are:

Hand Crossbow
Any 1 handed melee weapon
Unarmed

I only want Unarmed because I don't want to be helpless without my weapons, and it would be fairly in character to be good at unarmed. It's mainly secondary though, so it can be left out if wanted.

I intend to dual wield the crossbow and the 1 Handed weapon, so I need to be able to reload the crossbow with the other hand in use somehow. If you have suggestions, I'll be willing to take them. I am aware that I could just not do it, and that's my choice if this doesn't work out. So I don't need to be told.

How can I make this work without being ineffective in combat? What feats, builds, etc could be used to make this viable?

This also relates to the second question:

Close Combat Shot

I want to be able to use the aforementioned crossbow in close combat without taking AoOs. Let me say, I want to stop them altogether, not just reduce their chances to hit (Although I will take these ideas solely in case I can't stop them altogether). How can I get this working without gimping my melee skills?


I know that this idea seems stupid, but it's not for Char Op, it's for fun. The Char Op part is for making this playable.

hamishspence
2009-10-09, 12:53 PM
Being a drow grants free proficiency with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword.

Versatile Combatant (Drow of the Underdark) requires Dex 15, rapier and hand crossbow proficiency.

You gain the benefit of Two-weapon fighting when armed with rapier in main hand and bow in off-hand.

You also do not provoke attacks of opportunity from adjacent opponents when you make ranged attacks with the hand crossbow.

There is a Weapon Style feat in the same book that allows you to reload the crossbow without provoking attacks of opportunity (and grants +1d6 damage if you move 10 ft toward the enemy before firing the bow) but it has a lot of prerequisites:

Dex 13, Mobility, Dodge, Shot on the Run, Point Blank Shot, BAB +6.

Rapid Reload (PHB) enables you to reload the bow as a free action.

Melamoto
2009-10-09, 12:58 PM
Wow, that seems absolutely perfect in every way. I'm Chaotic Good, so being a Drow may be a little too like a certain fantasy novel hero. But considering the backstory as a guardsman, it would add an interesting twist.

Jade_Tarem
2009-10-09, 01:02 PM
There's more to being a Drizzt clone than being a chaotic good drow. Just avoid wangsting over your situation and taking everything to extremes and melodrama. In short, just don't act like a sickeningly goody-two-shoes seventy year old teenager and you'll be fine. I say go for it.

hamishspence
2009-10-09, 01:03 PM
Not all CG drow have to be like You Know Who :smallamused:

Melamoto
2009-10-09, 01:09 PM
Don't worry about angst, he'll be full of bravado. Still, this single feat seems to have solved everything.

Zaydos
2009-10-09, 01:10 PM
I've only read one book with Drizzt and I didn't really like it that much (might be because it was the 2nd in a trilogy I think, might not have been but still didn't start at a beginning), but I've always liked the idea of a good aligned drow. I'd say it was before I knew who Drizzt was but my older brother had told me about a "good dark elf with two swords". But that doesn't mean just because you're a good drow you're a Drizzt clone, I'd say don't wield 2 scimitars though if you can avoid it.

Melamoto
2009-10-09, 01:15 PM
Like I said, I'm not dual wielding swords. I'm using a Rapier and Hand Crossbow, resorting to Unarmed when needed.

jiriku
2009-10-09, 01:22 PM
Also, you can get proficiency with the desired weapons by any of the following routes:

Rogue 1 w/improved unarmed strike feat
monk 2 w/EWP (hand crossbow)
unarmed swordsage 2 w/EWP (hand crossbow)

Rapid reload and TWF are obviously both beneficial.

If you also add rapid shot, manyshot, and improved rapid shot, you can rapid shot with both hand crossbows with no penalty and lay down the law with four shots at BAB-2, plus iteratives. Combined with poison and/or sneak attack for a truly impressive ranged full attack.

Melamoto
2009-10-09, 01:30 PM
Well, now I have 2 questions.


A: Does Speed on weapons stack with Rapid Shot?

B: How can I get to reload when using an extra weapon?

hamishspence
2009-10-09, 01:38 PM
It did in 3.0 (monster with 4 base attacks, rapid shot and a speed bow is listed with 6 bow attacks, in Deities and Demigods)

I think it does in 3.5 as well.

The same applies to twin speed melee weapons- one bonus attack with the speed main hand weapon, one bonus attack with the speed off-hand weapon.

I'm not sure if there is a "reload one-handed" feat, or property that can be applied to crossbows.


EDIT:
The Quick Loading property in Magic Item Compendium (+1) adds an extradimensional space to your bow, allowing it to be loaded as a free action (and allowing you to use your full attack rate).

The space can contain up to 100 bolts, and you can select freely from the bolts in the space.

If ruled that you do not need your hand to load the bow, this could be very handy.

Combine that with the swift-action spells in Champions of Ruin (ranger, assassin, justice of weald and woe PRC, generally) and you have a very Judge Dredd-ish weapon.

"Grenade"
"Double whammy"

etc.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-09, 01:52 PM
I think there's some +1 property in MIC that allows for an extradimensional holding space to automatically reload.

Also, maybe you could speak with your DM about waiving the race requirement. LA +2 is harsh. Lesser Drow (PGtF) might work, but more interesting might be a Changeling. You get Disguise Self at will, little social bonuses; and you can take a feat to qualify for any racial feat. MM3 or ECS; combined with RoE (IIRC)

hamishspence
2009-10-09, 01:53 PM
Neither the Weapon Style feat, nor the Versatile Combatant feat, actually require you to be a drow.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-09, 01:56 PM
Ah, good to know. So rogue will be enough. Maybe a splash of martial adept or Fighter if you need to meet the prereqs for the more rigorous feat.

Eldariel
2009-10-09, 02:28 PM
My friend is actually playing a character with the exact feat (and Hand Crossbow Focus IIRC) in the low-magic world game we've got right now and is doing very well. Rapid Reload is a good option for keeping a Light/Heavy Crossbow around, and you could dip some levels in Unarmed Swordsage for Unarmed Strikes along with some handy stuff.

Superior Unarmed Strike could be great later on to pump up your UA damage. There is the other option of acquiring a bit more flexibility by doing it all the hard way:
Pick up Rapid Reload, Two-Weapon Fighting -line, level of Exotic Weapon Master to get Close-Combat Shot and prolly Fighter-levels to get bonus feats.

Then Superior Unarmed Strike later on, normal Rogue-feats like Darkstalker & Craven and you're done. This enables you to TWF with a Rapier and your Unarmed Strikes, two Hand Crossbows, Light Crossbows, Rapier & Unarmed Strike, etc. If you picked up Rapid Shot, you could use that too.

Maybe use two Monk-levels to get bonus feats alongside Flurry & Unarmed Strikes. At that point, you better pick up Weapon Finesse and lots of Dex of course though, and maybe some dips in Swashbuckler and such 'cause you really need To Hit-bonuses.

hamishspence
2009-10-09, 02:55 PM
If the crossbow is an important part of the build, Ranger levels do grant spells that can be cast on arrows or bolts as a swift action.

Unfortunately, those spells are not in the Spell Compendium- only Champions of Ruin.

Also, there are plenty of good properties to put on ammunition- and the selecting ability of the Quick-loading trait, allows you to pick the ammo needed for the situation.