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Cedrass
2009-10-09, 08:58 PM
Ok the truth is, I know jack about Bards. Never did one, never looked at the class. I couldn't be bothered really.

My next character though, I want him to be the scared arrogant type, always trying to get away with not doing what he's told, but too scared to stand up and say no. Think Jack Sparrow, without the evil bastard part. This is where Bard comes in, I think it'll fit in just fine with the character, plus I never did one!

Next up, I also want to try this prestige class with a friend: The Syncronized Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110440). It looks fun, powerfull enough (IMO) and well, I just want to try it! being 2 guys fighting like one, it's cool all right? :smallwink:

Since I know nothing about Bards, I've no idea on how to make a good melee bard (if such a thing can exist) and how to nicely integrate this PrC, so I'm turning to you guys, since you always manage to make something crazy work out nice in the end! :smallbiggrin:

Basicaly what I'm asking is pretty much anything you can think of: tips/nice feats to have/builds/etc.

Also it's in the title, but we're playing Pathfinder. Just in case :smallwink:.

Edit: Oh if someone needs to know, my group has no important House Rules that you need to know of, and for stats we usualy use 25 point buy (The Pathfinder version of course).

LibraryOgre
2009-10-09, 09:17 PM
Actually, my current PF character is a melee bard. Hobgoblin.

Doing a melee bard is pretty easy. Concentrate on buff and out-of-combat spells. Give yourself a decent strength and con to make up for your HP and low BAB. Arcane Strike is a good feat, especially low-level (I've currently got it on a non-magical Adamantine Longsword for my 6th level bard... I can cut through a lot of stuff with that sword, and can switch it over to my cold iron short sword backup if necessary, and still have it be magical).

Starbuck_II
2009-10-09, 09:21 PM
Ok the truth is, I know jack about Bards. Never did one, never looked at the class. I couldn't be bothered really.

My next character though, I want him to be the scared arrogant type, always trying to get away with not doing what he's told, but too scared to stand up and say no. Think Jack Sparrow, without the evil bastard part. This is where Bard comes in, I think it'll fit in just fine with the character, plus I never did one!

Next up, I also want to try this prestige class with a friend: The Syncronized Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110440). It looks fun, powerfull enough (IMO) and well, I just want to try it! being 2 guys fighting like one, it's cool all right? :smallwink:

Since I know nothing about Bards, I've no idea on how to make a good melee bard (if such a thing can exist) and how to nicely integrate this PrC, so I'm turning to you guys, since you always manage to make something crazy work out nice in the end! :smallbiggrin:

Basicaly what I'm asking is pretty much anything you can think of: tips/nice feats to have/builds/etc.

Also it's in the title, but we're playing Pathfinder. Just in case :smallwink:.

Edit: Oh if someone needs to know, my group has no important House Rules that you need to know of, and for stats we usualy use 25 point buy (The Pathfinder version of course).

What books allowed? Only Pathfinder?

You can't take the Prc without a friend doing so. So you'll eed to be near that ally to benefit.

Are you using the normal version or ToB version of the Prc?

Anyway, Pathfinder Bards pretty much have to take extra performance(otherwise rds/level are too low).
You qualify with 8 levels of Bard.
By level 8 Bard:
You can maintain music as move action, 18 + Cha rds/day, Known spells: 5 1st, 4 2nd, 3 3rd known, and Inspire Courage +3.

Feats ideas:
Extra Performance (+6 rds), Arcane Strike (makes weapon count as magic and +2 damage as swift action), Improved Init (going first helps sometimes), Toughness (extra hps), and Vital Strike (double damage on an attack action),

Inspire Courage is wonderful with everyone benefiting +3hit/damage, but you'll have to use up move action to maintain. So limited to 1/attack which makes Vital Strike useful. But Vital Strike requires +6 BAB so at level 9 you can take it as you take the Prc.

Cedrass
2009-10-10, 12:36 AM
Oh yeah forgot to say which books I can use. It's Core PF, Completes and Compendiums. And Tome of Battle of course!

It seems pretty easy to make a melee Bard, but won't I run into some kind of MAD by needing Cha, Str, Dex, Con ?

Oh and yeah I've got a friend to play this class with.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-10, 08:36 AM
Oh yeah forgot to say which books I can use. It's Core PF, Completes and Compendiums. And Tome of Battle of course!

It seems pretty easy to make a melee Bard, but won't I run into some kind of MAD by needing Cha, Str, Dex, Con ?

Oh and yeah I've got a friend to play this class with.

You run into a lot of MAD. You can skimp a little on Charisma... a 14 or so is all you'll need. My build has a 16 in Str, Dex, and Con, a 12 Intelligence, and a 15 Charisma at 6th level. He can pull this off because he's a hobgoblin (so +2 Dex and Con, with no penalties), and we have a fairly generous roll method (8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, +6 full points to be put where we like).

Starbuck_II
2009-10-10, 08:47 AM
Oh yeah forgot to say which books I can use. It's Core PF, Completes and Compendiums. And Tome of Battle of course!

It seems pretty easy to make a melee Bard, but won't I run into some kind of MAD by needing Cha, Str, Dex, Con ?

Oh and yeah I've got a friend to play this class with.
What level you starting, do you know?
Bard would need to be level 9 (Bard 8 + 1 Prc) to be one unless you are less Bard and multiclass into a fighting class like Barb, Fighter, Pally.

You don't need a huge amount of Dex (but at least 12 + items) as you can just focus Str.
Oh, yeah, don't forget Craft Wonderous Item as a feat as making a magic item cheaper rocks. Make yourself Str/Con/Cha item (one +2 of each, not together).

25 pb:
14 Cha (5 pb), 14 Con (5), 16 Str (10), 12 Int (2), 13 Dex (3) , 10 Wis (0).
You don't need a huge Cha as you are going into the Prc (need just enough to get 3rd level spells).

When leveling: +1 Dex (to make the 13 a 14). And at level 8, +1 Str might be useful for later (level 12 adds another +1 Str).
Add Racial stats? Human adds +2 to any. Str adds more chance to hit/damage, but Con adds life. Dex adds AC.

Spells:
1st level spell Improvistion is very nice. It gives you luck points you can add to your attack roll, etc.
2nd, Cat's Grace is a useful spell as it increases Dex (plus majes it easier tro craft Dex item), but for 3rd level Haste is very useful.

As soon as you can afford it: Get Celestial Armor: Light armor that grants fly and acts like +3 Chainmail. But till then Chain shirt will do.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-10, 09:10 AM
Next up, I also want to try this prestige class with a friend: The Syncronized Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110440). It looks fun, powerfull enough (IMO) and well, I just want to try it! being 2 guys fighting like one, it's cool all right? :smallwink:
I think the class would be a lot better if one person could take the class and his designated partner spend say a feat for synchronized fighting. (Make it give an extra flanking bonus with other people who have the feat or something.) The person taking the synchronized swordsman class should get more out of it of course (the martial manoeuvres for one) but the combat bonuses and AoO effects would be more than enough to make fighting together essential. Reducing the resource investment for the partner to a feat would make the class a lot more playable.

Cedrass
2009-10-10, 12:25 PM
Actually I guess I changed my mind about one thing, I think I'll take only a few Bard levels, take some Warblade levels and then full on in the Syncronized Swordman. I'm thinking I can use Snowflake War Dance (Frostburn) and Song of the White Raven to make for some nice effect with the Bardic Music, maybe take Extra Bardic Music sometime in my buid (I'm thinking lvl 9 since I'll take Snowflake Wardance at lvl 7).

I'm not sure it works though... The way I see it, my Inspire Courage will boost if I'm in a White Raven stance so it won't be useless, and for Snowflake Wradance my Bard level doen't matter much. Is that right?

Cedrass
2009-10-10, 09:37 PM
Bumping this since I don't want to plan my bui;d on 2 feats if their effect isn't exactly as I immagined them to be.