opinions on ending for a campaign?

[Mystic Muse]

I have an idea for a campaign with my cousins. I hope they get to the end but fully suspect it could end well before then. Here's how it works.

The heroes make it to the end of the BBEG's lair. The guy who's been plaguing the land and them their entire adventere. At the entrance of his lair there's a sign saying "lose and win or win and lose? now coward you must choose. Bow your head and creep away or you and yours will curse this day." before the PCs attack the BBEG he tells them of the main things he's been doing all along. He's been protecting the world from an evil being from the far realm and he's the only being capable of it. Make no mistake. This guy is evil, He's evil as can be and that's the point. the players can either destroy him and doom the world or leave him alive to give the world a chance.

and before anybody asks yes I did steal the rhyme from "Dragons of Deltora." :smalltongue:

something I should probably mention. the oldest player in the group is thirteen.

[PinkysBrain]

Personally I'd hate you.

[Mystic Muse]

I had a feeling that may be the case. waiting for more feedback.

[Gelondil]

Quick sarcastic reply:

Rocks fall, everybody dies. :smallbiggrin:



Serious reply:

Is this meant to be roleplay challenge or mental challenge for your characters? Or just a game end in the making?

For a mental challenge -
The standard "easy" solution suitable for 13-year-olds is a double-win, Hollywood style. The heroes find out what the BBEG is doing to protect the world, defeat him, and take over his job as well. They save the land AND the world.

For a roleplay challenge -
Leave them to roleplay the hard decision and deal with the consequences.

[Mystic Muse]

mostly a game ending in the making.

[PinkysBrain]

How exactly are you going to convince them anyway? Hell, how do you intend to let him finish a sentence? (Remember that scene from The Gamers?)

[Gelondil]

I'd say that it's a perfectly acceptible ending for an established group that will play more games later. I've seen some truly evil campaign finishers (mandatory TPK!) on campaigns that still were enjoyable.

However, if this is a 1-shot or first game for any of these players, don't end it without some kind of "out". An anti-climax is still an anti-climax, even when it's done well, and may be lost on some 13-year-olds.

[Boci]

I agree with Gelondil. I think most PCs would just kill him and take over his job, and then a new campaign arc could begin. As a PC I would be annoyed at this, but mainly at fate than the DM.

[PinkysBrain]

BTW, what system is this ... 3e isn't very suitable for this kind of railroading. If they are slightly familiar with the rules they could just decide to mindrape him in some way (helm of opposite alignment).

[oxinabox]

I have an idea for a campaign with my cousins. I hope they get to the end but fully suspect it could end well before then. Here's how it works.

The heroes make it to the end of the BBEG's lair. The guy who's been plaguing the land and them their entire adventere. At the entrance of his lair there's a sign saying "lose and win or win and lose? now coward you must choose. Bow your head and creep away or you and yours will curse this day." before the PCs attack the BBEG he tells them of the main things he's been doing all along. He's been protecting the world from an evil being from the far realm and he's the only being capable of it. Make no mistake. This guy is evil, He's evil as can be and that's the point. the players can either destroy him and doom the world or leave him alive to give the world a chance.

and before anybody asks yes I did steal the rhyme from "Dragons of Deltora." :smalltongue:

something I should probably mention. the oldest player in the group is thirteen.

Yes, that's an excellent end.
If the players.
as soon as he tells them they can kill him, and loose the world, or leave him to save the world, (and maybe damn the world to a fate almost as bad as what he was protecting from)

That is where you end.
You don't let the characters answer.
If try top do anything in character once he's finished talking just repeat: "THe campaign is finished."


Cliff hanger ending leaving them longing to know the end, to do the end.
But deny them, they'll remember it forever that way.

I'm being serious, a sharp pogient (sp?) ending.


then again i'm kinda in to dark worlds at the moment.
I'm running a setting where almost all hope for humanity living is gone.
My faverate game i'm playing in is nWod,
and the worst that can happen always does. (see the link in my sig about the rule of never letting them get the girl)

[Gelondil]

BTW, what system is this ... 3e isn't very suitable for this kind of railroading. If they are slightly familiar with the rules they could just decide to mindrape him in some way (helm of opposite alignment).

This assumes very experienced and high level players. I didn't really get that feeling when Kyuubi described a game with cousins maximum age of 13 that may not even get to the campaign end. But, hey, I could be wrong.

[Mystic Muse]

These guys don't have any experience with 3.5 at all. The only version they've ever played is fourth edition and I was a very bad DM at that time. I've improved since. I also don't allow evil alignments or evil spells.

This is not going to be a one-shot. This is going to be a campaign that I think will last at least 20 weeks. That's with the chances my one cousins will not be able to make it for six different weeks.

[Kylarra]

He shouldn't be the "only one capable of defending the world", presumably definitely not if a handful of misbegotten adventurerers can beat him. So if they beat him, they should just have to step up to the plate and protect the world in his place.

We're talking 13y and younger here, they don't need complicated morality cases.

[Violet Octopus]

^
While I'd disagree that 13yr olds and lower don't need moral dilemmas, I agree with you. Particularly since if someone is evil, he has no reason to admit there may be others who can save the world.

The idea would be fun as a last minute attempt to demoralise the PCs, but unless the campaign as a whole is grey and grey morality, there should be a way out of the dilemma.

[Tallis]

I think that would make for a great first meeting with the BBEG, but I wouldn't like it as the climax of the campaign. The fun in a "no-win" situation is in figuring how to get around it and win. If that can't happen then it's just frustrating.
Besides if this is the last game then there aren't any real consequences. I know plenty of people who would kill the guy because they aren't going to be around for the bad things anyway; so who cares? If your players are the types to get really invested in their characters it could work, but at 13 they are likely to be more of the hack and slash type.

It could also work as the lead-in to another campaign, but if you're going to do that then you better give them a way to win in the second campaign. Otherwise they'll get to hating you for never letting them win.

[Kylarra]

^
While I'd disagree that 13yr olds and lower don't need moral dilemmas, I agree with you. Particularly since if someone is evil, he has no reason to admit there may be others who can save the world.

The idea would be fun as a last minute attempt to demoralise the PCs, but unless the campaign as a whole is grey and grey morality, there should be a way out of the dilemma.Well my point is, that you don't want to railroad inexperienced (gamewise and lifewise) players into catch-22 situations, particularly not if the campaign up to that point has been black and white morality, as much of D&D is assumed to be.

[boomwolf]

It only works if he is lying by the way I see it.

If he is honest, then this creates a "all for nothing" feel, and that very bad for players that didn't already WIN a few campaigns.

A "doomed to lose" game is only fun if the characters, from the begging, never did want to win. they never wanted to take part in this. they were pushed into the rule of heroes, and fought to protect themselves, only to face the bitter truth that they are too weak, and all the horrors they faced are nothing compared to the things in the "real world" that they never knew existed.

Naturally, this leads to a late campaign, where the PC's are at the actual power level of the "real world", and maybe even save the former PC's at a given adventure. (been there, done that. nothing is as great as helping your former PC do what he could not archive by himself.)