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The Dark Fiddler
2009-10-10, 12:59 PM
SHIELD PROTECTOR


"It may be cliched, but whoever said the best offense is a good defense was absolutely correct."
- Gal Hamben, considered to be the first Shield Protector

A Shield Protector is one focused on defense. Strong, loyal, and protective, they make great bodyguards, either hired or by choice. Their style is a sight to behold, taking the usually defensive shields that many warriors have and turning it into a potent weapon, while moving elegantly in even the heaviest of armor.

BECOMING A Shield Protector

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
BAB: +5
Feats: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, Improved Shield Bash


Class Skills
The Shield Protector's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are....
Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d12

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Bonus Feat

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+2|Armor Training, Superior Shield Bash, Bonus Feat

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Hardy, Two Shield Fighting, Two Shield Defense, Bonus Feat

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shield Other, Bonus Feat, Shield Slam

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Improved Armor Training, Master's Shield Bash[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A Shield Protector is proficient with Tower Shields if not already.

Bonus Feats: A Shield Protector gains the following feats at the given levels, even if he does not normally meet the prerequisites:

Level 1: Weapon Focus (Applies to all shields), Shield Specialization
Level 2: Weapon Specialization (Applies to all shields), Active Shield Defense
Level 3: Greater Weapon Focus (Applies to all shields), Shield Charge
Level 4: Greater Weapons Specialization (Applies to all shields), Shield Ward


Armor Training: As a Shield Protector continues to train, they become more 'in tune' with their armor. They may ignore up to one half their class level of Armor Check Penalty. The penalties from armor and shields are combined for purposes of this ability.
Additionally, they may don armor one round quicker per class level (minimum time is one round), may don heavy armor without help, and do not become fatigued from sleeping in their armor.

Superior Shield Bash: At level 2, a Shield Protector improves their skill with shields. Damage from their Shield Bash attack deals damage as if the shield was one size category larger. Additionally, a Shield Protector may shield bash with a Tower Shield.

Hardy: At some point in their career, nearly every Shield Protector realizes that their armor prevents them from dodging blows, and instead begins shrugging them off. Starting at level 3, a Shield Protector adds their Constitution modifier as an Miscellaneous bonus to their armor class. This bonus cannot be greater than the Shield Protector's class level. The Maximum Dexterity Bonus of all armors they wear when using this ability becomes 0. This can still be improved through means such as the armor being made of Mithral. This bonus applies when flat-footed, but not to touch armor class.
This ability only functions when the Shield Protector is wearing Medium or heavier armor.

Two Shield Fighting: A Protector is considered to have the Two Weapon Fighting feat when determining the penalties for attacking with two shields. If the protector already has Two Weapon Fighting, he instead gains Improved Two Weapon Fighting. If he already has this, he instead gains Greater Two Weapon Fighting. If he already has three of these feats, he instead takes a bonus feat chosen from the Fighter Bonus Feat list.
Additionally, the Protector no longer treats a shield bash as an off-hand attack when wielding it in their main hand.

Two Shield Defense: A Shield Protector is considered to have the Two Weapon Defense feat when wielding two shields. Additionally, they may add the shield bonus of a second shield that they are wielding to their armor class.

Shield Other: A Shield Protector may, as a move action, transfer their shield bonus to an adjacent ally's Armor Class. This action provokes attacks of opportunity.

Shield Slam: Starting at 4th level, a Shield Defender may make a Shield Slam as a Full Attack or at the end of a Charge. You designate one attack to be the Shield Slam before rolling to see if the attack lands. If it hits, your opponent takes normal damage, and must also make a Fortitude Save or be Dazed for one round. The DC for this Fortitude Save is 10 + Class Level + Shield Defender's Strength Modifier. A Shield Slam cannot be made at the end of a charge when using the Shield Charge feat.
A Shield Defender is considered to have the Shield Slam feat. If the Shield Defender has the Shield Slam feat when he gains this ability, he may lose the feat and replace it with Fighter Bonus Feat he qualifies for.

Improved Armor Training: A Shield Protector may ignore up to their class level of Armor Check Penalty. The penalties from armor and shields are considered one penalty for purposes of this ability. This replaces, rather than stacks with the effects of Armor Training.

Master's Shield Bash: A Protector's Shield Bash deals damage as if he were two size categories larger. This replaces, rather than stacks with Superior Shield Bash.



PLAYING A SHIELD PROTECTOR
Combat: Most Shield Protectors will fight in heavy armor and with two shields, although it is not rare to see one fighting with only one shield.


SHIELD PROTECTOR IN THE WORLD
"Yeah, I saw him. Our greatest warrior couldn't even hit that beast, but he just stood there and took the punishment. It's some strange technique that is, but I'll be damned if it ain't effective.
- Farmer whose property was saved by a Shield Protector



NPC Reaction
Most NPC's won't know of a Shield Protector until they meet them. If told of their techniques, most will scoff at the notion of fighting with shields.

Narmy
2009-12-12, 08:04 PM
Make you a deal, I'll rate and review yours, if you rate and review mine?

Here is an idea of the skills you should probably use.

I'd use them I suppose.
Skills

Survival, Spot, Sense Motive, Profession, Listen, Heal, Gather Information, Diplomacy, Craft, Concentration, Climb, Intimidate, Bluff

Skills Points
Either 2 or 4 per level plus Int Mod. I'd most likely go with 2.

I'm going to suggest some feats here, that you could implement as abilities or free bonus feats or what not. I'm going to also finish reading the class, I noticed that you basically gave the two-weapon fighting ability and such for shields. I was going to suggest giving those as bonus feats until I saw that.

Feats/Abilities Suggested that you MIGHT want to use

Shield Slam (Combat)

In the right position, your shield can be used to send opponents flying.

Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn.

Shield Focus (Combat)

You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.

Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1.

Greater Shield Focus (Combat)

You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.

Prerequisites: Shield Focus, Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +1, 8th-level fighter.

Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Shield Focus.

Shield Master (Combat)

Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without hindrance.

Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus.

Your Ability Descriptions


Armor Trainging They may ignore up to one half their class level of Armor Check Penalty rounded up/down??. (Since it's a five level prestige class it's gonna hit a 2.5, which means that you either need to round it up or down.)

Superior Shield Bash
Doesn't damage from a shield bash attack come from the shield, and not the size of the creature. Therefore would you not have to count the shield as one size category larger, and not the character.

I suggest rephrasing the description to instead say as if the shield was one size category larger.

Hardy For this ability description you have a small portion of the sentence that goes as following "instead begins instead" Remove the second instead, and the sentence will work and flow more adequately. I'd just say a Miscellaneous bonus instead of an untyped, but I guess either or works.

They actually no longer get a dexterity bonus to AC what so ever??? Hmmm

Two Shield Fighting The sentence in this description although functioning, isn't the best choice. I suggest replacing it with the following.
If the protector already has this feat, they are instead considered to have Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-12, 08:15 PM
Holy crap, somebody commenting on this. :smalleek:

So, are all those official feats I'm not familiar with, or homebrew?

Narmy
2009-12-12, 08:34 PM
Those are official feats, but they are from the Pathfinder System.

However, Pathfinder is a 3.5 evolution, a VERY compatible system. It's basically what 4.0 should have been.

Aside from that fact, you're creating your own prestige class, therefore, it matters not that they are from Pathfinder in the first place, regardless how little it mattered in general.

I think that you're class is good for a 5 level prestige class, and although the special abilities seem like they are abundant. They are good enough.

As for balance, it seem alright, but you should play test to be sure.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-12, 08:41 PM
I can tell you this at least; it's better than the version my DM had.

It was a 20 level class, but a 1 level dip got you a d12 HD and let you ignore Max Dex and ACF completely. :smallsigh:

I probably will need to playtest it at some point.

Mythestopheles
2009-12-12, 08:43 PM
Nice! I've always wanted to play a two shield fighter! I like this.


A Shield Protector is proficient with all simple weapons, armors, and shields.


This seems a bit redundant, most PrC's have no additional proficiencies. This one in particular because it would probably be a fighter PrC

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-12, 08:51 PM
Also, response to your discussion of my ability descriptions.

Armor Training
I thought the default for 3.5 was round down unless otherwise stated. As for the 2.5, don't forget that level 5 gets Improved Armor Training.

Sup. Shield Bash
Yeah, I'll change that.

Hardy
Will fix that, but I'm not really sure about the Misc. Bonus. Do Misc. Bonii stack?

Yeah, maybe just make it 0 before adjustments for Masterwork and special materials and all that? It just sort of made sense, since I fluffed it as shrugging off blows instead of dodging. A melee type taking this would have a higher Constitution than a Dexterity, anyway.

Two Shield Fighting
Will do, but I'll need to add that if they have Imp. already, they get Greater Instead. I doubt they would, since the aforementioned Con higher than Dex thing, but you never know.

@Mythe...whatever
Glad you like it, this is the first thing I made that I'm actually truly proud of (except perhaps Lesser Antimagic Field).

You never do know about the proficiencies though. Maybe I should just change those all to prereqs?

Narmy
2009-12-12, 08:58 PM
Considering that Miscellaneous doesn't mean one specific field of bonuses, but a wider spectrum

Yes, it stacks.

As for profs..

Remove all EXCEPT make it so that the class gives you Shield Proficiency (Tower Shields)

Krazddndfreek
2009-12-12, 10:49 PM
I'm just posting to say what a bizarre and fresh idea you've brought here. While I'm at it, I probably should try to contribute something.

Not that it really matters too much, but how does Survival become a class skill for these guys?

On a more serious note, these guys get the equivalent of three feats per class level sans first. I think you might need to do something about that, except for the fact that because of all this heavy armor, it makes touch attacks so much more easy to use against you. I guess actually it probably wouldn't do too much, except for the fact that your DM would have to resort to touch attacks to hit you, but then he'd be hitting every time. There's no option in between...


And it's bonuses Fiddler. Bonii isn't a word :smallwink:

Human Paragon 3
2009-12-12, 11:23 PM
Two shield fighting strikes me as a bit ridiculous. I'd rather have a style that greatly improves the useage of a tower shield, granting you new combat manuevers with it and letting you use it as an effective weapon. That's a personal preference though.

Also, full BAB, please.

Narmy
2009-12-13, 12:16 AM
I thought about it this way.

They are guardians, sometimes they may go stationary, sometimes they may be traveling mercenaries for hire. I don't know.

But either or, if they want to-- you know what, just scrap survival and you're good. lol


Aside from that, could create a shield variant, I have the idea in my head, could probably come up with stats and such, but I'm lazy ><

In short, it's like two large or two small shields in a shape that gives them a curve, they can be brought together and joined, sort of like a yin and yang symbol.

That way you'd have two smaller shields that can also act as weapons and be linked together to create a defensive barrier. I dunno.

Shyftir
2009-12-13, 01:09 AM
There are a significant set of shield based feats in Players Handbook 2. I'd suggest using those as requirements and improving them beyond their actual potential as the class features. These feats are fairly similar but not quite the same as the Pathfinder feats listed earlier.

TSED
2009-12-13, 01:27 AM
Most Shield Protectors are loners, protecting their loved ones or taking jobs as bodyguards.


Really?




...Really?



Otherwise, I'm quite confused as to why Gather Information is on the class skills list. Sure, it kiiiind of almost maybe makes sense from an "I'm a mercenary!" viewpoint, but cross-class ranks would still suit that fine, really.

I don't know. Sorry, I'm not feeling particularly constructive right now. ):

Narmy
2009-12-13, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Fiddler View Post
Most Shield Protectors are loners, protecting their loved ones or taking jobs as bodyguards.
If that's the case, Survival is a great in class skill.

Anonymouswizard
2009-12-13, 05:27 AM
This is great, I especially love the idea of getting weapon focus and weapon specialization with shields. I might just make a character who relies on a concept like this, in a no arcanist party, he could easily become the greatest threat just because he survives longer than anyone else.

I especially like the idea of two shields joined together to protect and seperated to be used as weapons. something like this:

{table]Exotic weapon|cost|Dmg (S)|DMG (M)|Critical|Range increment|AC bonus|ACP|ASF|Weight|Type
one handed weapons
Combat shield|50gp|1d6|1d8|x3|-|+1|-1|15%|15lbs|Slashing[/table]
Combat shield: a combat shield is a large shield that has blades attached to the edge. A character using two combat shields can either use them as weapons, fighting with two weapons and gaining a +2 shield bonus to AC, or join them together and gain a +5 shield bonus bonus to AC. If the wielder would increase the damage dealt by his shield bash he instead increases the damage that would be dealt by the combat sheilds slashing attack.

Narmy
2009-12-13, 05:51 AM
Actually, I was more so thinking of a name like this.

Interlocking Battleshields or Interlocking Warshields.

I think that the critical should be a x2, and not a x3.

May I suggest that you use the Combat Facing system for your games.

It would make this class indeed much more useful. Not to mention add a level of realism and awesomeness to your games.

May I also suggest that this PrC gets the Interlocking Warshield as a proficiency when taken. As in, add it to the Prof list with Tower shields.

Tell ya what, I'll take a more active part in this PrC. I think that I'll be adding it to my list, once we're finished I'll even make it into a pdf if you want for ya.

All I ask in return, is that you give my PrC a look over and review it, tell me if there is anything that seems to need balancing.

Ponce
2009-12-13, 06:26 AM
Improved Shield Use is not very useful. Look up the feat Shield Ward to see why.

Narmy
2009-12-13, 07:15 AM
I suggest a name change. The Shield Protector -> The Shielded Protector

Here, I've come up with what the warshields should most probably be. The cost may not be accurate, but everything else is.

Any masterwork version of an Interlocking Warshield is granted both a +1 Enhancement bonus to attack rolls, and it's ACP is lessened by 1.
Exotic Weapons


Light Interlocking WarShield (Steel)
Cost: 159 Gold
Damage: 1d4 Slashing, x2
Independent AC: +1
Interlocked AC: +3
ACP: -1
SpellFail: 5% Per
Weight: 8 lbs.

Special Ability:
Interlock
An interlocking warshield is so crafted that it can be locked together in formation with another interlocking warshield of the same size and type. By interlocking the warshields they form a single shield, this interlocked shield is a bit bigger than a shield one size category larger than. A pair of Interlocked Warshields functions as one shield, and one weapon.

Interlocking a pair of Warshields can be done as a standard action.
If you have a Base Attack bonus of +6 interlocking a pair of warshields is only a move action.

Heavy Interlocking Warshield (Steel)
Cost: 170 Gold
Damage: 1d8 Slashing, x2
Independent AC: +2
Interlocked AC: +5
ACP: -2
SpellFail: 15%
Weight: 19 lbs.

Special Ability:
Interlock
An interlocking warshield is so crafted that it can be locked together in formation with another interlocking warshield of the same size and type. By interlocking the warshields they form a single shield, this interlocked shield is a bit bigger than a shield one size category larger than. A pair of Interlocked Warshields functions as one shield, and one weapon.

Interlocking a pair of Warshields can be done as a standard action.
If you have a Base Attack bonus of +6 interlocking a pair of warshields is only a move action.

Veeda Vidlak
2009-12-13, 08:24 AM
The Shield Protector


The Shield Protectors are those who decide, for whatever reason, to follow the way of a defender, be it of justice, chaos, or any other cause. The majority of Shield Protectors, aptly, wield two shields in battle, and those that do not will almost always wield at least one. Most Shield Protectors are loners, protecting their loved ones or taking jobs as bodyguards.

The path of a Shield Protector is not a common one, and many people actually scoff at the concept, but it is almost impossible to find someone more dedicated to protection than a Shield Protector.

I have always liked classes with formidable defensive abilities despite passive combat being fairly weak in 3.5. Powerful defenses usually lead to more interesting fights.

However, you might want to fix the fluff a bit. Saying they are loners that usually protect loved ones or serve as bodyguards makes no sense.


Requirements:
BAB: +6
Feats: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, Improved Shield Bash




Shield Protector
HD: d12
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Bonus Feat

2nd|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Armor Training, Superior Shield Bash, Bonus Feat

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Hardy, Two Shield Fighting, Two Shield Defense, Bonus Feat

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Shield Other, Improved Shield Use, Bonus Feat

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Improved Armor Training, Master's Shield Bash[/table]
Skill Points Per Level: 4+Int Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: A Shield Protector gains proficiency in Tower Shields if he is not already proficient with them.

A few points

1. This class is obviously supposed to be an Abrams class tank PRC so give it full BAB.
2. knock the skill points down to 2/level; I don't see why it should have 4. Also, bluff doesn't make much sense as a class skill.
3. You cannot bash with a tower shield, so giving this class proficiency with it is fairly meaningless unless you also give them some additional ability with it in combat.


Bonus Feats: A Shield Protector gains the following feats at the given levels, even if he does not normally meet the prerequisites:

Level 1: Weapon Focus (Applies to all shields)
Level 2: Weapon Specialization (Applies to all shields)
Level 3: Greater Weapon Focus (Applies to all shields)
Level 4: Greater Weapons Specialization (Applies to all shields)


Its odd that a class meant to be defensive has all its bonus feats boosting attack and damage output. There isn't anything really wrong with these feats though.



Armor Training: As a Shield Protector continues to train, they become more 'in tune' with their armor. They may ignore up to one half their class level of Armor Check Penalty. The penalties from armor and shields are combined for purposes of this ability.
Additionally, they may don armor one round quicker per class level (minimum time is one round), may don heavy armor without help, and do not become fatigued from sleeping in their armor.


Improved Armor Training: A Shield Protector may ignore up to their class level of Armor Check Penalty. The penalties from armor and shields are considered one penalty for purposes of this ability. This replaces, rather than stacks with the effects of Armor Training.

These abilities are weaksauce (except the sleeping in armor, which is handy). The reduction in ACP affects precisely one skill (climb) on your class list. I would give them some some AC bonus or maybe better movement in heavy armor instead of this.



Superior Shield Bash: At level 2, a Shield Protector improves their skill with shields. Damage from their Shield Bash attack deals damage as if the shield was one size category larger.

Master's Shield Bash: A Protector's Shield Bash deals damage as if he were two size categories larger. This replaces, rather than stacks with Superior Shield Bash.

No problems here. This brings the heavy shield's damage from a pathetic 1d4 to a respectable 1d8 (1d10 if spiked).


Hardy: At some point in their career, nearly every Shield Protector realizes that their armor prevents them from dodging blows, and instead begins shrugging them off. Starting at level 3, a Shield Protector adds their Constitution modifier as an Miscellaneous bonus to their armor class. However, their Maximum Dexterity Bonus becomes 0, but this number can still be improved through means such as the armor being made of Mithral. This bonus applies when flat-footed, but not to touch armor class.

This is overpowered, if not just because it lets you add you entire CON modifier with no penalty. I would change this to adding your CON up to your class level or making the CON to AC replace DEX instead of having the two stack.

Also, hilariously enough this ability probably benefits speedy fighters more than armored knights. Try an invisible blade with a kung fu genius monk dip that is now adding double INT, DEX, and CON to AC along with wearing a bracers of armor :smallannoyed:. Because of this, I would require the use of medium/heavy armor to gain this ability.


Two Shield Fighting: A Protector is considered to have the Two Weapon Fighting feat when determining the penalties for attacking with two shields. If the protector already has Two Weapon Fighting, he instead gains Improved Two Weapon Fighting. If he already has this, he instead gains Greater Two Weapon Fighting. If he already has three of these feats, he instead takes a bonus feat chosen from the Fighter Bonus Feat list.
Additionally, the Protector no longer treats a shield bash as an off-hand attack when wielding it in their main hand.

Two Shield Defense: A Shield Protector is considered to have the Two Weapon Defense feat when wielding two shields. Additionally, they may add half the shield bonus of a second shield that they are wielding (minimum bonus of 1) to their armor class.

Maybe its just me...but I don't really like the whole two-weapon shield thing. First of all, you are highly unlikely to have the DEX necessary to do two-weapon fighting properly. Also, wielding two shields looks overly complicated. Do you add both shields enhancement bonuses to AC? You probably shouldn't since they are both shield enhancement, but if you don't the added AC boost is terrible and not worth the extra shield.

I would personally stick with a sword and board style and just increase the abilities of the single shield in tandem with the primary weapon.

Don't even think about trying to fight with dual tower shields...


[Shield Other: A Shield Protector may, as a move action, transfer their shield bonus to an adjacent ally's Armor Class. This action provokes attacks of opportunity.

I'm not sure how this would work when you are using two shields. Other than that this ability is fine.


[Improved Shield Use: A Shield Protector may add half their shield bonus to their touch armor class.

Make this add their entire shield bonus to touch AC.


My overall opinion and recommendations


1. Alot of the abilities are weak or useless. The hardy power is extraordinarily powerful and worth dipping three levels for by most melee builds regardless of style. You need to nerf that one. I would increase the strength of some of the other abilities or replace them so all five levels are worthwhile.

2. The class is called Shield Protector, but most of the abilities are offensive. You should probably increase its defensive options (maybe DR or partial concealment from the shield or something)

3. You might want to look at the Shield Charge and Shield Slam feats (from Complete Warrior) and try to fit something like that into the class. Some sort of dazing attack (similar to stunning fist, but with a shield) would be awesome. Also, if you are certain about having two shields and TWF with them get Agile Shield Fighter (from Players Handbook 2) preferably as a class feature ASAP.

4. This class's fluff implies he is a defender and bodyguard. Shield Other is the only ability that helps protect someone else so you might want to give them something else to help protect an ally. Maybe you could give an ally total concealment as the capstone.

5. GIVE IT FULL BAB!!

Narmy
2009-12-13, 08:46 AM
My opinion, I've been lazy about this PrC, but once I got into making the shields. I changed my mind with new determination.

I thank you for your opinions to help our friend.

I do disagree with you on a few points, and I do agree with you on others.

I did notice that you misread the Hardy ability, and told him to make it do what it already does.

I will be helping our friend here from now on in buffing the hell out of this class, and fixing it up to be both balanced and awesome.

At least, that is what I currently desire. As I've found a new determination to make an awesome shield swinging PrC.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-13, 09:10 AM
It seems you took quite a long time typing that up, as I updated while you were doing that. Still, I've done things you suggested.


I have always liked classes with formidable defensive abilities despite passive combat being fairly weak in 3.5. Powerful defenses usually lead to more interesting fights.

However, you might want to fix the fluff a bit. Saying they are loners that usually protect loved ones or serve as bodyguards makes no sense.

Fluff is certainly not the strong point of this class, but fixing that is of lesser concern than making the class worthwhile.



1. This class is obviously supposed to be an Abrams class tank PRC so give it full BAB.

Eh.... I don't know about full BAB. It's still not terribly hard to hit with Medium BAB, and I saw it more as a "Take hits and occasionally give off your own" thing. I'll think about it.


2. knock the skill points down to 2/level; I don't see why it should have 4. Also, bluff doesn't make much sense as a class skill.

Bluff, I dunno. Better than no skill list, which is what I had previously. I'll go through that sometime. As for skill points, fighters already get screwed there, 4+Int isn't broken anyway.


3. You cannot bash with a tower shield, so giving this class proficiency with it is fairly meaningless unless you also give them some additional ability with it in combat.

Most classes that are proficient with shields aren't proficient with Tower Shields as well. The only one I can think of is Fighter (which will probably be one of the classes entering this PrC anyway). However, you are right on that point, so I added the ability to Shield Bash with Tower Shields into Superior Shield Bash.



These abilities are weaksauce (except the sleeping in armor, which is handy). The reduction in ACP affects precisely one skill (climb) on your class list. I would give them some some AC bonus or maybe better movement in heavy armor instead of this.

I'll look into the AC Bonus, and I was already thinking of adding the better movement to get rid of the "Just walk around it" problem. Probably redoing skill list later as well, so the ACP reduction might become more helpful.




This is overpowered, if not just because it lets you add you entire CON modifier with no penalty. I would change this to adding your CON up to your class level or making the CON to AC replace DEX instead of having the two stack.

Also, hilariously enough this ability probably benefits speedy fighters more than armored knights. Try an invisible blade with a kung fu genius monk dip that is now adding double INT, DEX, and CON to AC along with wearing a bracers of armor :smallannoyed:. Because of this, I would require the use of medium/heavy armor to gain this ability.

I've made it only function with Medium or Heavy armor (or Heavy+, if such a thing exists). If it's still over powered, I might move it down a level or something. Maybe make it up to class level, and only uncapped (or a higher cap, like CL + 1/4 other levels or something) at 5th.



Maybe its just me...but I don't really like the whole two-weapon shield thing. First of all, you are highly unlikely to have the DEX necessary to do two-weapon fighting properly. Also, wielding two shields looks overly complicated. Do you add both shields enhancement bonuses to AC? You probably shouldn't since they are both shield enhancement, but if you don't the added AC boost is terrible and not worth the extra shield.

Full shield bonus instead of half. Still only add the shield bonus of the second shield though.


Don't even think about trying to fight with dual tower shields...

Rule of Cool.


I'm not sure how this would work when you are using two shields. Other than that this ability is fine.

Add the entire Shield Bonus.


Make this add their entire shield bonus to touch AC.

Already replaced with feat that does exactly that (Shield Ward).



My overall opinion and recommendations


1. Alot of the abilities are weak or useless. The hardy power is extraordinarily powerful and worth dipping three levels for by most melee builds regardless of style. You need to nerf that one. I would increase the strength of some of the other abilities or replace them so all five levels are worthwhile.

That's a problem. Set out to make sure it isn't underpowered and it becomes a bit too weak.


2. The class is called Shield Protector, but most of the abilities are offensive. You should probably increase its defensive options (maybe DR or partial concealment from the shield or something)

Best defense is a good offense. :smalltongue:

Still, I'll try to do something about that.


3. You might want to look at the Shield Charge and Shield Slam feats (from Complete Warrior) and try to fit something like that into the class. Some sort of dazing attack (similar to stunning fist, but with a shield) would be awesome. Also, if you are certain about having two shields and TWF with them get Agile Shield Fighter (from Players Handbook 2) preferably as a class feature ASAP.

As long as they're in Crystal Keep's .pdf, look I will. And I was thinking Agile Shield Fighter as well (since I saw that when I looked up Shield Specialization).


4. This class's fluff implies he is a defender and bodyguard. Shield Other is the only ability that helps protect someone else so you might want to give them something else to help protect an ally. Maybe you could give an ally total concealment as the capstone.

Like I said, fluff sucks right now. Still, that doesn't sound like a bad idea...


5. GIVE IT FULL BAB!!

Maybe.

erikun
2009-12-13, 09:38 AM
There doesn't seem to be much point to giving the class two-weapon fighting and then cutting out its BAB. I would say either full BAB (like everyone else said), or give it come kind of Shield Ally ability (like the PHB2 Knight).

How much damage does a Tower Shield do on a bash?

I assume that the +1 shield bonus from Two Weapon Defense is supposed to stack with the shield bonuses from your shields? That's obviously what you want, although it isn't explicitly stated (and the feat is worthless otherwise).

Just a few more feats to consider:

Shield Specialization, PHB2. +1 AC when wielding a buckler, small shield, or large shield (choose one)
Shield Ward, PHB2. Shield bonus applies to touch attacks and resisting grapple, bull rush, trip, disarm, and overrun
Shield Charge, Complete Warrior. When attacking and hit with a shield at the end of a charge, you may make a free trip attempt
Shield Slam, Complete Warrior. You may Shield Slam as a full attack, or at the end of a charge; opponent takes damage and is dazed (STR-based DC, Fort negates)

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-13, 10:33 AM
There doesn't seem to be much point to giving the class two-weapon fighting and then cutting out its BAB. I would say either full BAB (like everyone else said), or give it come kind of Shield Ally ability (like the PHB2 Knight).

You make a good point.


How much damage does a Tower Shield do on a bash?

Working on that.


I assume that the +1 shield bonus from Two Weapon Defense is supposed to stack with the shield bonuses from your shields? That's obviously what you want, although it isn't explicitly stated (and the feat is worthless otherwise).

Will word that better.


Just a few more feats to consider:

Shield Specialization, PHB2. +1 AC when wielding a buckler, small shield, or large shield (choose one)
Shield Ward, PHB2. Shield bonus applies to touch attacks and resisting grapple, bull rush, trip, disarm, and overrun

Already given as bonus feats.



Shield Charge, Complete Warrior. When attacking and hit with a shield at the end of a charge, you may make a free trip attempt
Shield Slam, Complete Warrior. You may Shield Slam as a full attack, or at the end of a charge; opponent takes damage and is dazed (STR-based DC, Fort negates)

Will look.

Edit: Gave Full BAB, added Shield Slam. Since the DC is also determined by Class Level, I felt it would be better as a Class Ability than just giving the feat.

Mythestopheles
2009-12-13, 12:02 PM
Maybe an ability that would make opponents more likely to attack him? Not sure how this would work, maybe something like the goad feat.

On another note, my next character where homebrew is allowed will definitely take this class!

Shyftir
2009-12-13, 04:19 PM
Main reason for going full BAB? Improved Combat Expertise (which is an obvious choice for this class, possibly over kill though) scales with your BAB.

Again going Fighter (or Knight!) to get to this then taking this and Dwarven Defender, that'd be crazy.

Also an idea would be an Agile shield fighter "feat chain", improved ASF, greater ASF etc. Basically scaling your shield fighting just like two-weapon fighting.

Narmy
2009-12-13, 06:04 PM
Looks like I'm not needed, people suggesting it seems what I was gonna suggest pretty much.

I'll just sit back and watch how it unfolds I suppose.

I would suggest though using my Interlocking Warshields to go along with this class.

Would work perfectly, especially in combat facing variant games. I.E. Realistic Shield Use.

The warhields posted in this thread are old and outdated, check my signature for the upgraded versions. They are still a work in progress. Help would be appreciated.

I think that it's coming along well enough.

The MUST be used only in games that implement the combat facing system. There is a link to it in the shield thread.