Create Water Problems.

[TelemontTanthul]

I was playing a game of DnD, when our Favored Soul decided that he wanted to create water, and use it to harm his enemies.

So he creates 12 gallons of water, 20 ft above his enemies, and asks me how much damage he deals.

I said that all he managed to do was knock one of the Bugbears down (the enemy they were fighting) and did no Lethal damage.

Do you agree? Why, or why not?

Should Create Water be able to be used like that? Why, or why not?

[Fluffles]

I'd say it does no damage, but it stuns them for a second. (Like, they lost a move action or something) and adds 10% of the weight to their total carried.

But yeah, 12 gallows will not knock something prone. Especially at 20ft.

[PinkysBrain]

Maybe if it was a literal ton of water or something ... but 30 gallons? A DC10+wis reflex save vs trip seems about right (not so much knocking them down, just the rush of water disturbing their footing).

[Douglas]

Technically he can't even do that at all in the first place, so any concerns about how much damage it should do are academic.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)

[jmbrown]

I'd say it does no damage, but it stuns them for a second. (Like, they lost a move action or something) and adds 10% of the weight to their total carried.

But yeah, 12 gallows will not knock something prone. Especially at 20ft.

For one you can't conjure water in an empty space.

Even then I wouldn't even allow that much. 12 gallons above your head falls in a second flat and water disperses so it's not like a torrent that's buffeting you.

You create 12 gallons of water, it splashes on the bugbear's head, you have a pissed off bugbear that's now wet.

[tyckspoon]

It's a cantrip. At best, he forces a standard DC save against being knocked Prone. Anything else would be much more effective than you should get out of a 0-level spell. (And the rules require objects to weigh at least 200 pounds to inflict damage when they fall on things from only 20 feet up anyway. At the given 2 gallons/level, that needs a caster level 13 Create Water to deal 1d6 damage. That's if you treat a mass of water as a single solid object, as if you were dropping a rock on somebody. Which you're not; water will scatter itself and not all hit somebody at the same time. It'd be reasonable to treat it as half its weight or even less.)

[BenTheJester]

Upon reading the thread title, I thought you wanted us to create problems involving water.

Thus I will continue with my original idea:

You have a 3 gallons and a 5 gallons container. You have an endless source of water nearby and need to get exactly 4 gallons of water in one of the container. How do you do it?

[tyckspoon]

Upon reading the thread title, I thought you wanted us to create problems involving water.

Thus I will continue with my original idea:

You have a 3 gallons and a 5 gallons container. You have an endless source of water nearby and need to get exactly 4 gallons of water in one of the container. How do you do it?

Cast Create Water at CL 2.

[Ashes]

Upon reading the thread title, I thought you wanted us to create problems involving water.

Thus I will continue with my original idea:

You have a 3 gallons and a 5 gallons container. You have an endless source of water nearby and need to get exactly 4 gallons of water in one of the container. How do you do it?
Cast Create Water at CL 2.

HAHAHA! I actually, in real life, laughed out loud at this!

I'm willing to go as far as saying that it's sig-worthy. Mind if I do? (@ both of you)

[Ichneumon]

Technically he can't even do that at all in the first place, so any concerns about how much damage it should do are academic.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)


That must be the most important rule every written. It prevents so much game breaking and loop holes.

[Flickerdart]

That must be the most important rule every written. It prevents so much game breaking and loop holes.
"You cannot may more PP for a power than your manifester level" is also one that lots of people miss.

[Logalmier]

*Ahem*

http://fragg.me/video/giant-excavator-water-car

Just thought I'd throw that out there.:smallwink:

[Darkmatter]

If you want to go by RAW, it does no damage and has no effect other than annoying the bugbear. Water weighs roughly 8.25 lbs / gallon. 12 gallons weighs 99 lbs. This is 2 lbs. short of the threshold for a falling object to cause any damage after falling 20 ft. (from falling object rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#fallingObjects)). So even if that water were frozen solid, it wouldn't do any damage. As a good rule of thumb, cantrips used creatively in combat should allow a saving throw vs. a minor mishap for one creature - look at flare as an example.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I'd say just knocking them prone is good.

Its not like it would stay together.

[Jack_Simth]

Upon reading the thread title, I thought you wanted us to create problems involving water.

Thus I will continue with my original idea:

You have a 3 gallons and a 5 gallons container. You have an endless source of water nearby and need to get exactly 4 gallons of water in one of the container. How do you do it?

Empty the 3 gallon container, fill the five gallon container completely
Pour the contents of the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container until the 3 gallon container is exactly full; do not spill any. This will leave the five gallon container with 2 gallons of water.
Empty the 3 gallon container.
Pour the contents of the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container. This will leave the three gallon container with 2 gallons of water.
Fill the five gallon container completely.
Pour the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container until the three gallon container is exactly full (do not spill any).
The five gallon container now contains exactly four gallons.

[Sophismata]

Fill the 3 gallon container. Pour it into the 5 gallon container.
Fill the 3 gallon container. Pour as much as possible into the 5 gallon container.
You now have one gallon in the 3 gallon container, and 5 gallons in the 5 gallon container.
Empty the 5 gallon container. Transfer the one gallon into the 5 gallon container.
Fill the 3 gallon container. Add it to the one gallon in the 5 gallon container.
You now have four gallons in the five gallon container.

[Yahzi]

Cast Create Water at CL 2.
Perfect answer. :smallsmile:

The only use for dumping water on a bugbear is to get him wet. Which, at best, would force a reflex save to prevent his scroll/beer/torch from being ruined.

The real use of Create Water comes when dealing with Witches. :smallbiggrin:

[EleventhHour]

The real use of Create Water comes when dealing with Witches. :smallbiggrin:
Or drowning your allies back to life.

...RAW is horrible. RAI should always be in effect.

[kjones]

Upon reading the thread title, I thought you wanted us to create problems involving water.

Thus I will continue with my original idea:

You have a 3 gallons and a 5 gallons container. You have an endless source of water nearby and need to get exactly 4 gallons of water in one of the container. How do you do it?

Invent the Euclidean Algorithm to solve all linear diophantine equations. :smalltongue:

[taltamir]

I would reward creative use of things... but 12 gallons of water? to do damage?
Impacting water is not exactly lethal.

Now if it was a 12 gallon block of ice that would be different... or better yet, an ice lance. But the water would disperse somewhat and hit the bugbears at low velocity at a wide spread.

Now a very large amount of water hitting with enough force would kill someone (see tsunami / dam break / etc).

[Johel]

Empty the 3 gallon container, fill the five gallon container completely
Pour the contents of the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container until the 3 gallon container is exactly full; do not spill any. This will leave the five gallon container with 2 gallons of water.
Empty the 3 gallon container.
Pour the contents of the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container. This will leave the three gallon container with 2 gallons of water.
Fill the five gallon container completely.
Pour the five gallon container into the 3 gallon container until the three gallon container is exactly full (do not spill any).
The five gallon container now contains exactly four gallons.

A winner is you !! :smallbiggrin:
No seriously, that ingenious.
Gotta put that one out for my group.

About the 12 gallons rain :
I don't know how much liters a gallon is but if Darkmatter is right, that's about 4 liters.
I've already emptied a 8 liters bucket on somebody's head from the 1st floor of my house (Kids, don't play tricks with the ring...it can end badly).
He was wet (and shocked), period.
Now, the first floor is about 12 ft high but still, I doubt it would have achieved much more if I had done it from the 2nd floor.

[Bayar]

A winner is you !! :smallbiggrin:
No seriously, that ingenious.
Gotta put that one out for my group.


Well, it's not like it was also in Die Hard 3 or anything...

[Totally Guy]

My little brother wanted to create water inside the baddie's lungs.

[Ichneumon]

My little brother wanted to create water inside the baddie's lungs.

Given that there is air inside the longs, unoccupied air, it could be done, RAW that is. I see no reason why it shouldn't. However, I see no reason why having water in your longs would kill you, by RAW that is.

[Keld Denar]

Actually, there is already a spell that does that. I believe its a drood spell. There is also a spell that pulls all the water out of a person, and animates that water into a creature that then beats up other stuff. And don't forget the spell that causes most of the blood vessels in a persons body to become "external" in a rapid state that causes nearby people to become entangled with them.

Isn't magic fun?

EDIT: Creating Water in a persons lungs is impossible using Create Water because you do not have Line of Effect into a person. More powerful magics (such as Drown) work by targeting the WHOLE creature, and acting upon it.

[Omegonthesane]

Use the water to make a slippery floor, and you've just cast a gimped Grease, which is really good for a cantrip.

[Kaldrin]

Should Create Water be able to be used like that? Why, or why not?


I would say they get wet. 12 gallons isn't a lot and water doesn't impact as one lump. If they were on a slope and it dropped directly upslope of them it might require a check to stay standing if the slope was loose dirt or clay... It would have to be an exceptional amount of water to be dropped to cause physical damage on anything more than the annoyance and check to stay standing scale. Now if it was ice-cold water or boiling water you'd have a different situation.

[Vizzerdrix]

Create water says it can possibly be used to create a down pour. I'm choosing to take this as it breaks the conjuration rule and can be summoned above a target.

If not, then I demand errata allowing such! Otherwise how can we have our wet T-shirt contests!

[BenTheJester]

HAHAHA! I actually, in real life, laughed out loud at this!

I'm willing to go as far as saying that it's sig-worthy. Mind if I do? (@ both of you)

knock yourself out

[Deth Muncher]

All of this reminds me of a time a friend of mine was in this campaign a long, long time ago. Possibly 2e, but likely 3e. There was this evil wizard who, to prove himself unbeatable, casts whatever Globe of Invulnerability-esque ability he had to trap bubble himself from harm, stating that nothing could get in or out of the bubble. My friend responds by Creating Water inside it.

So the wizard had to either drown, or face the PCs. Apparently he didn't prepare Water Breathing that morning.

[taltamir]

A winner is you !! :smallbiggrin:
No seriously, that ingenious.
Gotta put that one out for my group.

About the 12 gallons rain :
I don't know how much liters a gallon is but if Darkmatter is right, that's about 4 liters.
I've already emptied a 8 liters bucket on somebody's head from the 1st floor of my house (Kids, don't play tricks with the ring...it can end badly).
He was wet (and shocked), period.
Now, the first floor is about 12 ft high but still, I doubt it would have achieved much more if I had done it from the 2nd floor.

12 US gallons = 45.4249414 liters


Actually, there is already a spell that does that. I believe its a drood spell. There is also a spell that pulls all the water out of a person, and animates that water into a creature that then beats up other stuff. And don't forget the spell that causes most of the blood vessels in a persons body to become "external" in a rapid state that causes nearby people to become entangled with them.

Isn't magic fun?

EDIT: Creating Water in a persons lungs is impossible using Create Water because you do not have Line of Effect into a person. More powerful magics (such as Drown) work by targeting the WHOLE creature, and acting upon it.

They exist, by they are explicitly attack spells, and higher level spells, not a cantrip.

[KillianHawkeye]

Create water says it can possibly be used to create a down pour. I'm choosing to take this as it breaks the conjuration rule and can be summoned above a target.

Correct! At best, this would yield results similar to strong rain. How much damage does rain do again? :smallwink:

[taltamir]

Correct! At best, this would yield results similar to strong rain. How much damage does rain do again? :smallwink:

it is absolutely devastating to paper... it makes you soggy and sticky and uncomfortable (maybe a morable penalty to performing skill checks?), and it if you stay in the wet clothes without warming up, it will weaken your immune system and you are likely to catch a cold... oh and the floor is wet and you might slip

So based on that:
1. Any exposed paper is damaged (oh look, they carried none)
2. -1 morale penalty to skill checks while wet (attack is not a skill check, open lock is a skill check)
3. if they do not dry up, roll a fort save 5 hours later, if they fail they will catch a cold... (yea, like that helps in combat)
4. If on a VERY slippery when wet surface (say, polished marble), roll a reflex save to not fall. (this might actually be useful, a single square poor man's grease... that only works on some surfaces)

[Dixieboy]

12 US gallons = 45.4249414 liters.How much damage does 45 kilos from 20 ft deal?

[taltamir]

How much damage does 45 kilos from 20 ft deal?

a rock of that weight could kill you; water in a plastic bottle or a bag could hurt too, loose water will be harmless...
While their acceleration is equal, their hardness and cohesion will greatly affect their ability to transfer the kinetic energy to you.

To compare... how much damage does a person take when he jumps into a POOL of water from 20 feet in the air? How much damage when he jumps head first into a rock from 20 feet in the air?

[Curmudgeon]

How much damage does 45 kilos from 20 ft deal?
In real life, it depends on the hardness. A big rug could be that massive. It would knock you down, but wouldn't do any noticeable damage. A rock of that mass would either miss entirely or hurt something. Water will just get you wet.

By the D&D rules, it can't do any damage.

[Set]

Technically he can't even do that at all in the first place, so any concerns about how much damage it should do are academic.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)

Which nicely prevents 5th level Wizards from summoning Celestial Bison 30 ft. above the ground to ker-splat their foes. 'Cause then we'd need to know how much damage an 800 lb animal does after 30 ft. :)

[taltamir]

Which nicely prevents 5th level Wizards from summoning Celestial Bison 30 ft. above the ground to ker-splat their foes. 'Cause then we'd need to know how much damage an 800 lb animal does after 30 ft. :)

the answer is "quite a lot"... if you wanna be realistic about it, they are all dead.

[Kylarra]

Which nicely prevents 5th level Wizards from summoning Celestial Bison 30 ft. above the ground to ker-splat their foes. 'Cause then we'd need to know how much damage an 800 lb animal does after 30 ft. :)6D6
800lbs* 1D6/200lbs =4d6 for the first 10'
30'-10' = 20'
20'*1d6/10' = 2D6

4D6+2D6 = 6D6

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#fallingObjects

[KillianHawkeye]

Anyway, everyone knows the REAL use for create water is to ready an action to cast it over the head of an enemy spellcaster when they begin casting a spell. Repeatedly.

You ever try casting a spell when some jerk keeps dousing you with cold water? At the very least, it's a great way to be annoying and get them really P'Oed. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

[taltamir]

Anyway, everyone knows the REAL use for create water is to ready an action to cast it over the head of an enemy spellcaster when they begin casting a spell. Repeatedly.

You ever try casting a spell when some jerk keeps dousing you with cold water? At the very least, it's a great way to be annoying and get them really P'Oed. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

this works even better if he is casting from a scroll... :) water + scroll = sad wizard...

[Foryn Gilnith]

Cast Cold Snap beforehand to make the ambient temperature -20 Fahrenheit (-28 Celsius) for a few hours, if you can spare the slots.

[ericgrau]

Knocking someone prone is too powerful for a 0th level spell, and I doubt it could do that. As pointed out it couldn't deal significant damage either. At best I could see it used as a possible distraction. Even then it might not always work.

[Mr. Mud]

Anyone else first think of this, after reading the OP...?

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/84155761.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19358B9FCD9D575A2333CA061A109415255 B01E70F2B3269972

[Thurbane]

I'd say just knocking them prone is good.

Its not like it would stay together.
That would make it more powerful than Bigby's Tripping Hand, a 1st level spell (which is woefully underpowered, BTW).

Anyway, everyone knows the REAL use for create water is to ready an action to cast it over the head of an enemy spellcaster when they begin casting a spell. Repeatedly.

You ever try casting a spell when some jerk keeps dousing you with cold water? At the very least, it's a great way to be annoying and get them really P'Oed. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:
That sounds fair enough (assuming you rule that Create Water circumvents the "no summoning above a creature's head" rule) - force them to roll a Concentration check against a 0 level spell.

If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting. For a spell with no saving throw, it’s the DC that the spell’s saving throw would have if a save were allowed.

[kjones]

All of this reminds me of a time a friend of mine was in this campaign a long, long time ago. Possibly 2e, but likely 3e. There was this evil wizard who, to prove himself unbeatable, casts whatever Globe of Invulnerability-esque ability he had to trap bubble himself from harm, stating that nothing could get in or out of the bubble. My friend responds by Creating Water inside it.

So the wizard had to either drown, or face the PCs. Apparently he didn't prepare Water Breathing that morning.

If this was, in fact, 3e, this probably shouldn't have worked - Globe of Invulnerability and its ilk block Line of Effect. Otherwise, you could just cast a fireball inside it...

[KillianHawkeye]

That sounds fair enough (assuming you rule that Create Water circumvents the "no summoning above a creature's head" rule) - force them to roll a Concentration check against a 0 level spell.

Doesn't require a special ruling. It's right in the spell description.


Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as large—possibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles.

Although you're right that the Concentration check should be pretty easy to make since it's a level 0 spell. It's still a great way to get somebody pissed, though. :smallbiggrin:

[PhoenixRivers]

Technically he can't even do that at all in the first place, so any concerns about how much damage it should do are academic.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)

So the Create Water spell cannot create water inside another object...

Like a waterskin.

It instead must be on an unenclosed surface capable of containing it, such as a large bowl, and must be then transferred.

[gdiddy]

This spell generates wholesome, drinkable water, just like clean rain water. Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as large—possibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles.

Note: Conjuration spells can’t create substances or objects within a creature. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon. One cubic foot of water contains roughly 8 gallons and weighs about 60 pounds.

Sigh. I'm thinking goat skin and mini-rain is okay, since the spell specifies only creating inside creatures is verboten.

It's definitely inconsistent, but Create water is kind of cheese proof as long as electricity doesn't come up. (And it isn't used to mimic higher level spells, which is always a no-no in any reasonable game.)

[AgentPaper]

edit: And when it rains, you get trillions of gallons of water (yeah yeah...) falling from tens of thousands of miles up, and it still doesn't hurt.

Trillions is probably a bit much, there's probably closer to a few million gallons of water in your average rainstorm, if that. And earth's atmosphere only goes about 7 miles up, and most clouds don't generally go higher than a mile or two. (though some do go as high as the atmosphere)

Rain doesn't hurt because it's spread out over a wide area, so there's only small bits of water hitting you. Compare to, for example, a waterfall, which can definitely kill you if you stand under it. Of course, even then, it has to be a rather large waterfall to get that effect, which is far beyond the abilities of any create water spell.

Of course, if you can find some way to freeze said water, for example a quickened ray of frost, then you might have something that would do some damage. (Though you'd have to figure out how much water the ray of frost can freeze at a time)

[PhoenixRivers]

Trillions is probably a bit much, there's probably closer to a few million gallons of water in your average rainstorm, if that. And earth's atmosphere only goes about 7 miles up, and most clouds don't generally go higher than a mile or two. (though some do go as high as the atmosphere)

Rain doesn't hurt because it's spread out over a wide area, so there's only small bits of water hitting you. Compare to, for example, a waterfall, which can definitely kill you if you stand under it. Of course, even then, it has to be a rather large waterfall to get that effect, which is far beyond the abilities of any create water spell.

Of course, if you can find some way to freeze said water, for example a quickened ray of frost, then you might have something that would do some damage. (Though you'd have to figure out how much water the ray of frost can freeze at a time)
Probably can't, though some psionic powers provide for freezing water by the gallon.

[AgentPaper]

Assuming you get the ability to cast create water as often as you want, with say CL 25, and also gain the ability to never need to rest/eat/etc so you can cast continuously, you could create 46 million gallons of water a day.

If you do this for a year straight, you'll create about 16.8 billion gallons of water. Which, assuming an earth-like planet, will have increased sea level by ~125 nanometers, or about 1/100th the size of a human hair. :smallamused:

If you really wanted to drown the world in water, say a mile deep, you'd need about 12.9 billion caster levels worth of clerics, all casting create water 24/7 for a year. If you could get them to also be casting quickened create water with a reserve feat, you could cut that in half. If you somehow made the entire population of the united states into level 20 clerics that didn't need to eat or sleep and had create water and quickened create water as reserve spells and cast them 24/7, you could do it.


Earth is big. :smallwink:

[Khanderas]

Regarding falling water damage.
Id just like to point out that rain is falling water from way higher then 20 feet.
Water in liquid form would fracture on its own while falling, so no damage.

Wet enemies is all he gets, possibly some freaked bugbears (cause chanting and falling liquid would problebly mean acid), with, depending on climate and texture of the ground, slippery and/or contracting a cold in 2d4 hours that laslts 1d4 days.

[Curmudgeon]

Wet enemies is all he gets, possibly some freaked bugbears (cause chanting and falling liquid would problebly mean acid), with, depending on climate and texture of the ground, slippery and/or contracting a cold in 2d4 hours that laslts 1d4 days.
Contracting a cold is another case of way too much for an orison. Curing that affliction requires Remove Disease, a 3rd-level spell.

[Grumman]

Wet enemies is all he gets, possibly some freaked bugbears (cause chanting and falling liquid would problebly mean acid), with, depending on climate and texture of the ground, slippery and/or contracting a cold in 2d4 hours that laslts 1d4 days.
Cold water does not make people catch colds.

[PhoenixRivers]

Assuming you get the ability to cast create water as often as you want, with say CL 25, and also gain the ability to never need to rest/eat/etc so you can cast continuously, you could create 46 million gallons of water a day.

If you do this for a year straight, you'll create about 16.8 billion gallons of water. Which, assuming an earth-like planet, will have increased sea level by ~125 nanometers, or about 1/100th the size of a human hair. :smallamused:

If you really wanted to drown the world in water, say a mile deep, you'd need about 12.9 billion caster levels worth of clerics, all casting create water 24/7 for a year. If you could get them to also be casting quickened create water with a reserve feat, you could cut that in half. If you somehow made the entire population of the united states into level 20 clerics that didn't need to eat or sleep and had create water and quickened create water as reserve spells and cast them 24/7, you could do it.


Earth is big. :smallwink:

It would be faster for a smaller number of casters to make Decanters of Endless Water, tie them to strings, and make medieval Water Wiggles (http://www.retroist.com/2008/08/06/the-water-wiggle-the-wet-dance-of-danger/).

[Tiki Snakes]

Assuming you get the ability to cast create water as often as you want, with say CL 25, and also gain the ability to never need to rest/eat/etc so you can cast continuously, you could create 46 million gallons of water a day.

If you do this for a year straight, you'll create about 16.8 billion gallons of water. Which, assuming an earth-like planet, will have increased sea level by ~125 nanometers, or about 1/100th the size of a human hair. :smallamused:

If you really wanted to drown the world in water, say a mile deep, you'd need about 12.9 billion caster levels worth of clerics, all casting create water 24/7 for a year. If you could get them to also be casting quickened create water with a reserve feat, you could cut that in half. If you somehow made the entire population of the united states into level 20 clerics that didn't need to eat or sleep and had create water and quickened create water as reserve spells and cast them 24/7, you could do it.


Earth is big. :smallwink:

Even then, it's not really going to do much, because all that excess will simply flow off of the edge. :)
http://packphour.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/stella1.jpg

[Amphetryon]

Sigh. I'm thinking goat skin and mini-rain is okay, since the spell specifies only creating inside creatures is verboten.

It's definitely inconsistent, but Create water is kind of cheese proof as long as electricity doesn't come up. (And it isn't used to mimic higher level spells, which is always a no-no in any reasonable game.)
I always figured Create Water made pure H2O, which is a really poor conductor of electricity at best (http://www.lenntech.com/applications/ultrapure/conductivity/water-conductivity.htm). It's usually all the impurities and trace minerals that allow water to conduct electricity.

I think a minor Concentration check (DC10) to continue a difficult action like casting or lockpicking, coupled with - at best - a -2 Morale penalty to any without specific water vulnerabilities like the Asherati is more than fair.

[ericgrau]

Ya pouring a container of gatorade over a coach is the right amount of water. Note he is not prone nor hurt or anything but suprised.

Water is a fine conductor of the kind of high voltage D&D electricity. It can leap 200 feet through the air, which is a much worse conductor than water. But that gap between the caster and the water on his target is still the same. IMO treat it like metal armor for the purpose of shocking grasp, but otherwise it wouldn't have much effect.

Ya, I'd use create water for roleplaying and crazy plan purposes, not normal combat use.

[Thurbane]

The DM might elect to assign a discretionary -2 penalty to a save vs. Lightning Bolt or similar if the target had been doused with water in the previous round, if he was feeling generous. :smallsmile: