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Optimystik
2009-10-12, 10:57 AM
So I've been leafing through Complete Arcane again, and I gave Blood Magus a second look (thanks in part to Endlesswrath's endorsement of the class' flavor.) Immediately, I noticed the 8/10 casting AND the weird entry requirements. (Toughness, Great Fortitude AND you have to have been killed before? Yuck!) But then I see the table and think a 4-level dip wouldn't be so bad for a sorc since you don't lose any CL that way. But I digress.

A couple of questions came into my mind while reading the class that I was hoping the Playground could answer.

1) The text on the Homunculus pet that the BM creates specifically states that it advances Hit Dice as its master gains levels. Does that mean that the Homunculus can qualify for and gain feats?

2)1) The "Blood Draught" ability, which enables the BM to store potions in his blood stream for later use by himself or his companions, involves a fair amount of squick. The creature must drink an ounce of the BM's blood to take the benefit of the potion. Is there any interaction between the two concerning diseases, poison, or parasites?

3) Can the "Bloodwalk" ability be used to enter and exit the same creature, landing on any adjacent square?

4) Any thoughts on why the class can't be LG? It's not like he's taking other people's blood.

Choco
2009-10-12, 11:04 AM
So I've been leafing through Complete Arcane again, and I gave Blood Magus a second look (thanks in part to Endlesswrath's endorsement of the class' flavor.) Immediately, I noticed the 8/10 casting AND the weird entry requirements. (Toughness, Great Fortitude AND you have to have been killed before? Yuck!) But then I see the table and think a 4-level dip wouldn't be so bad for a sorc since you don't lose any CL that way. But I digress.

A couple of questions came into my mind while reading the class that I was hoping the Playground could answer.

1) The text on the Homunculus pet that the BM creates specifically states that it advances Hit Dice as its master gains levels. Does that mean that the Homunculus can qualify for and gain feats?

2)1) The "Blood Draught" ability, which enables the BM to store potions in his blood stream for later use by himself or his companions, involves a fair amount of squick. The creature must drink an ounce of the BM's blood to take the benefit of the potion. Is there any interaction between the two concerning diseases, poison, or parasites?

3) Can the "Bloodwalk" ability be used to enter and exit the same creature, landing on any adjacent square?

4) Any thoughts on why the class can't be LG? It's not like he's taking other people's blood.

1.) I would say yes

2.) I think also say yes here, depends on the disease/poison/parasite though. I think it was intended that the stored "potion" be used mostly by the blood magus, so this will probably rarely even come up.

3.) Can't see why not, I dont have the book on me, but I don't think it specifies that the entry/exit creature has to be a different creature.

4.) I personally drop all alignment requirements for classes as long as the player can justify it. This specific one IMO can be dropped without any justification even.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-12, 11:10 AM
Once per day as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, he can seamlessly enter any living creature (except an elemental, ooze, plant, undead, or other creature without blood or a similar fluid) whose size equals or exceeds his own and pass any distance to another living creature on the same plane in a single round...
"and pass any distance to another living creature". No dice.

Homunuculus advances as per Monster Manual, so ya for feats.

No rules for bloodborne pathogens, but they're definitely there. Just get a Cure Disease afterwards.

The alignment requirement is just random nonsense.

Myrmex
2009-10-12, 11:12 AM
1) Yes, by RAW, the homunculus would gain bonus feats.

2) Well, if you were infected with a disease, drinking the blood would be considered contact, and if you had poisonous blood for some reason, it would probably poison the recipient as well.

3) The ability specifies that you enter one creature and exit another, so as written, it doesn't look like you can go in & out of the same creature.

4) I have no idea why it can't be lawful good. I guess it's a little to squicky? The same reason any class associated with vermin must be non-good or evil? Because the D&D moral & ethical system is largely an adaptation of arbitrary social conventions with little attempt at an overarching moral & ethical system?

Moriato
2009-10-12, 12:09 PM
Interesting idea about transferring disease and/or poison.

It's a tough call. Assuming we're trying to make it realistic (sorry catgirls, I love you), as far as diseases go, I would say there would be a chance of contracting the disease that way, but it's probably not as likely as you might think. Our stomachs are pretty hostile environments for diseases, and for good reason, of course. Most would be destroyed by the acid in there, but of course they could get into your bloodstream through a cut (even a microscopic one) in your mouth or esophagus before they get to the stomach. I suppose the fort save associated with the disease is probably good enough to simulate that.

As far as poisons go, I'd have to say they wouldn't transfer.

Many poisons simply don't work if they're injested, they have to be injected directly into the blood, or breathed in or whatever the best method of delivery is. They either can't be absorbed through the digestive tract, or the process of digestion breaks them down into something less than poisonous.

Even if they can still work by being injested, you're only drinking a very small amount of the blood magus' blood, and presumably the dose of poison is diluted all throught his bloodstream, so you'd only be getting a tiny amount of the poison, certainly not enough to effect you the same way it's effecting him.

But again, this is all just going off of my understanding of how actual diseases and poisons work. How they work in your D&D world is, as always, up to the DM

Burley
2009-10-12, 12:30 PM
4) Any thoughts on why the class can't be LG? It's not like he's taking other people's blood.
If I recall correctly, there is a clause that if you have a vial of something's blood, you can "erupt" from that specific person.
Also, bursting from the chest of an unsuspecting character does not strike me as something a LG character should be allowed to do. :smalltongue:

Myrmex
2009-10-12, 12:31 PM
If I recall correctly, there is a clause that if you have a vial of something's blood, you can "erupt" from that specific person.
Also, bursting from the chest of an unsuspecting character does not strike me as something a LG character should be allowed to do. :smalltongue:

But bursting into the chest of an unsuspecting character is ok?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-12, 02:27 PM
But a NG character should be allowed to do so?

Optimystik
2009-10-12, 03:54 PM
First off, thanks for the replies.


Even if they can still work by being injested, you're only drinking a very small amount of the blood magus' blood, and presumably the dose of poison is diluted all throught his bloodstream, so you'd only be getting a tiny amount of the poison, certainly not enough to effect you the same way it's effecting him.

From what I read, you have to drink an ounce of blood to get the benefits of Blood Draught. I was raised metric so I don't know offhand how much that is.

Now the real conundrum; what if a poisoned blood magus lets someone else drink his stored potion of Delay Poison?

On disease, your conclusion (fort save) sounds reasonable.


If I recall correctly, there is a clause that if you have a vial of something's blood, you can "erupt" from that specific person.
Also, bursting from the chest of an unsuspecting character does not strike me as something a LG character should be allowed to do. :smalltongue:

Well, Bloody Exit doesn't necessarily have to be harmful; you can make it do no damage at all and merely dive out of the creature, leaving them quite unsettled. Unsettling creatures isn't evil, as many good beings (such as Solars) are unsettling to the average person too. In fact, I'd imagine most Blood Magi never even acquire Bloodwalk, since they only maintain full caster progression for the first 4 levels of the class and get the most useful abilities (storing potions in their blood, scrolls on their skin, inability to bleed to death and blood casting) during those levels.

Plus there's Foryn's point on inconsistency; the other Good alignments are allowed to be Blood Magi with no problems. It's not a question of Law, either, as LN and LE Blood Magi are allowed.

You raise an interesting point with the vial however. If you have a vial of someone's blood, can you then make that person both your entrance and exit? The "another creature" language isn't used in the vial of blood ability.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-12, 08:55 PM
He can’t specify a named individual as the endpoint unless he has previously obtained a sample of that creature’s blood and has it preserved in a vial that he carries.

It never says that the blood magus enters through this vial, only that it is required. Consequently, the entrance requirement (a creature) still holds, and the exit requirement (another creature) is still restrictive.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-12, 09:25 PM
It never says that the blood magus enters through this vial, only that it is required. Consequently, the entrance requirement (a creature) still holds, and the exit requirement (another creature) is still restrictive.

The real question is why would you settle for 10d6 as a Full Round action against a creature who's blood you've obtained when you can do far, far more?


Blood Magus isn't worth taking levels in. One possible fix is to improve the BAB a step and remove the "must have died" clause (replacing it with "must have been reduced to -1 or lower HP). Giving it Advanced Learning would also help it.