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Choco
2009-10-12, 11:30 AM
If a Centaur/Wemic/similar creature charges with a lance, does it count as a mounted charge?

I am inclined to say yes, because it IS basically the same thing as a human on a mount charging. I don't know exactly how the rules interpret it though, do you actually have to be sitting on something that requires ride skill checks to count as being mounted? Even if that is the case, I think I would still be inclined to consider a charging centaur mounted.

So what do y'all think?

Fluffles
2009-10-12, 11:33 AM
I don't think it counts unless you house rule that it does. That's what my DM does anyways. (But I'm usually Tauric when the issue comes up)

Choco
2009-10-12, 11:38 AM
I don't think it counts unless you house rule that it does. That's what my DM does anyways.

Yeah, thats bout what I was thinking. Seems like a logical house rule to have, the rules as written obviously don't take this into account, so YAY for DM god powers!

Edwin
2009-10-12, 11:50 AM
You know, for some reason, I'm inclined to not agree here.

I can see them getting a decent bonus hit and damage bonus when making a normal charge, but I don't believe they should count as being mounted.

Or perhaps they should. They did quite literally grow up on horse"back".

Screw it, I can see it being either way. :smallsmile:

So, yeah, just disregard what I said.

Ravens_cry
2009-10-12, 12:10 PM
The idea of a charge is that you have a whole bunch of mass and speed behind you, with the horse adding to both in the case of a mounted charge. In the case of a centaur, you ARE the mass and speed of a horse. Sounds OK to me. Besides ,the image of a centaur knight in armour, wielding a lance, appeals to me.

John Campbell
2009-10-12, 01:02 PM
By the rules, no. It's a pretty reasonable house rule, though.

Clementx
2009-10-12, 01:34 PM
It says flat out in the Centaur monster entry that, "employing a lance deals double damage when it charges, just as a rider on a mount does". It is a bit of an extension to apply this beyond the simple lance, but a reasonable one. You run into a couple issues, like them using their favored longbows when "mounted" or someone trying to use Mounted Combat and Ride checks to up their own AC. I'd have no problem with centaur racial feats for Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge, without the useless prerequisites.

As unusual creatures, you need to reconsider some core rule assumptions, and see what implications or oversights need to be a addressed to make the monster balanced and appropriate.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-12, 02:26 PM
You run into a couple issues, like them using their favored longbows when "mounted"

Make them Composite Longbows and you're golden.

ericgrau
2009-10-13, 08:04 PM
A centaur employing a lance deals double damage when it charges, just as a rider on a mount does.

Maybe you still don't think it technically qualifies as a "mounted charge" (though it may), but any sane DM should allow it for most applications.

As for shooting a longbow while mounted, anyone can do that with a DC 5 ride check. It's called "guide with knees". Not that centaurs need any special skill to guide themselves.

Akal Saris
2009-10-13, 08:35 PM
I allowed it for the centaur PC in one of my games. He's a centaur fighter/cleric focused on charging feats along with power attack and leap attack - so he deals extremely large amounts of damage, especially when he crits (x3 lance charge +x2 critical = x4 damage in my games).

He also has those horseshoes that let you ignore some terrains from the DMG, I forgot what they're called, but they've been very useful for him.

The PC enjoys it, but the racial HD and LA really are very painful for the character - without the mounted feats, the centaur is definitely a sub-par choice.

Basically, it's a powerful option to allow, but not game-breaking unless you're unaccustomed to charger characters - and since the PC is in the same game as 2 other powerful melee characters (a crusader/wiz/abjurant champion, and a cleric with persistent righteous might), he doesn't really outshine them that much or even at all. I wouldn't suggest allowing the character to apply pounce to his mounted charges, though - things would get out of hand fast.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-10-14, 12:05 PM
It's ... powerful ... but not game-breaking unless you're unaccustomed to charger charactersYes

But its not a house-rule. Consider the Zelekhut's entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm).

339 also had a discussion on this. Eventually it got agreed that yes it is the RAW but it did confuse people because of the ambiguity in the entry. I doubt its survived the recent horrible transformation.

Choco
2009-10-14, 12:21 PM
Basically, it's a powerful option to allow, but not game-breaking unless you're unaccustomed to charger characters - and since the PC is in the same game as 2 other powerful melee characters (a crusader/wiz/abjurant champion, and a cleric with persistent righteous might), he doesn't really outshine them that much or even at all. I wouldn't suggest allowing the character to apply pounce to his mounted charges, though - things would get out of hand fast.

Yeah, I aint worried about it being a game breaker. In the off chance it does get cheesy, the enemies DO learn, and eventually will bring spears with which to ready against charges, and/or just employ their own legion of centaur knights!

I would handle pounce the same way the other DM in our group handles pounce/leap attack. He rules that the leap attack bonus only applies to the first hit, as that is the only one that actually has your momentum and weight behind it. All the other hits are just normal attacks.

ericgrau
2009-10-14, 12:25 PM
The PC enjoys it, but the racial HD and LA really are very painful for the character - without the mounted feats, the centaur is definitely a sub-par choice.
Which is what the HD and LA assume. If you don't play to a race's strengths or the DM doesn't allow it, then it's never worth it. You need to take full advantage of most MM races just to get back up to par. Which is (usually) great for stopping cheesy exploits using X race's special ability to do Y, but not so hot when you don't use the strengths. And not so hot when compared to splatbook feat & prc exploits which DO bring you above par.