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Myrmex
2009-10-12, 11:43 AM
What would is favored weapon be?
What domains would he have?
Law, War and Trickery, for sure. Planning makes sense, as does Domination.

Fluff wise, I think he'd be similar to Hextor, in that he's a god of war, but without all the stupid Heironeous baggage and villain stenciling. A god of war for hobgoblins and not humans. I don't see hobgoblins as being intentionally evil like Drow. It's just that it's much easier to slaughter whoever is in the way of your expanding empire. So he'd be a Lawful Evil deity, but only because war is way easier when you're evil than when you are not.

What about non-"let's punch you in the face & take your stuff" domains that would fit? Community? Protection? Nobility?

Personally, I've always seen Hobgoblins as an extremely rigid, lawful, ritualistic society, with a strong emphasis on duty & tradition. They'd be feudal, in that there'd be an underclass that supports a warrior upper class that would travel a lot. Their warlike tendency definitely disposes them to be not-good, but they have a strong sense of racial identity which fosters co-operation in them, which keeps them from turning on each other like other evil societies. If I had to compare them to RL societies, I would say they'd be a mix of feudal Japan and SPARTAAAA!!!. There's conflict, though, between those two concepts. I guess I'm thinking really minimalist in interior decoration, where placement of art objects are subtle statements of power & lineage, and practicing calligraphy is allegory for the way a hobgobbo can turn your guts into a canvas. They also would be masters of diplomacy, cloak-and-dagger stuff, so being able to use innuendo and stuff would be necessary (though that's more of a ninja-assassin bugbear thing). OTOH, everything they do has the final goal of making them the best warrior they can be, serving honorably alongside their brothers.

What's your take?

Morty
2009-10-12, 11:45 AM
Nomog-Geaya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomog-Geaya#Nomog-Geaya) is an estabilished god of the hobgoblins. I'd say he's pretty close to what you've come up with. Though you might want for him not to be subservient to Maglubiyet.

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-12, 11:46 AM
Did you hear of that guy, Maglubiyet, the God of Goblins and Goblinoids? Wow, isn't he something?

Myrmex
2009-10-12, 11:49 AM
Did you hear of that guy, Maglubiyet, the God of Goblins and Goblinoids? Wow, isn't he something?

The bugbears get their own god; why can't the hobgoblins? Why are there about 50 deities for humans (and major deities at that), but virtually none for races that are stronger, tougher, more expansionist, and breed faster than humans?

Godskook
2009-10-12, 11:49 AM
Are you wanting a new one, or has the current one just never been found(I had a hard time finding him myself, and there seems to be little out there for him)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomog-Geaya#Nomog-Geaya

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-12, 11:51 AM
Because D&D Cosmology is a bitch.

You asked for a patron deity of hobgoblins. Maglubiyet is it. If you wanted something homebrew, this is the wrong forum for that.

Myrmex
2009-10-12, 11:52 AM
Well, he's got a paragraph on wikipedia, and not much more. I was hoping there was a little more out there, preferably something 3e relevant.

But of course, there isn't, because WotC spends all their time publishing stuff on elves. :smallmad::smallfurious:

Morty
2009-10-12, 11:55 AM
But of course, there isn't, because WotC spends all their time publishing stuff on elves. :smallmad::smallfurious:

That it does. Full agreement here. So the only way is to homebrew.

Not Five
2009-10-12, 12:08 PM
In 4e, this would be Bane (or Achra), who in 4e core cosmology is pretty bad-ass. The OP's first paragraph describes him pretty well. Hobgoblins worship him; goblins worship Maglubiyet, who serves him. A lot of humans worship him too, because he's a god of discipline and order and not getting your ass kicked on the battlefield.

Tiktakkat
2009-10-12, 12:49 PM
Why are there about 50 deities for humans (and major deities at that), but virtually none for races that are stronger, tougher, more expansionist, and breed faster than humans?

That assumes deities are racially exclusive.
If they are not, then there are about 50 deities for hobgoblins, and any other race you want to mention.

Akal Saris
2009-10-12, 01:09 PM
I'm just saddened that I already knew who Maglubiyet was.

Myrmex
2009-10-12, 01:09 PM
That assumes deities are racially exclusive.
If they are not, then there are about 50 deities for hobgoblins, and any other race you want to mention.

In virtually every description of a "non-racial" deity, they are described as looking like humans. Vecna, Pelor, and Cuthbert themselves were all once men. Hextor & Heironeous are descendents of demigods that were once mortal men.

Set
2009-10-12, 02:28 PM
Personally, I've always seen Hobgoblins as an extremely rigid, lawful, ritualistic society, with a strong emphasis on duty & tradition. They'd be feudal, in that there'd be an underclass that supports a warrior upper class that would travel a lot. Their warlike tendency definitely disposes them to be not-good, but they have a strong sense of racial identity which fosters co-operation in them, which keeps them from turning on each other like other evil societies. If I had to compare them to RL societies, I would say they'd be a mix of feudal Japan and SPARTAAAA!!!. There's conflict, though, between those two concepts. I guess I'm thinking really minimalist in interior decoration, where placement of art objects are subtle statements of power & lineage, and practicing calligraphy is allegory for the way a hobgobbo can turn your guts into a canvas. They also would be masters of diplomacy, cloak-and-dagger stuff, so being able to use innuendo and stuff would be necessary (though that's more of a ninja-assassin bugbear thing). OTOH, everything they do has the final goal of making them the best warrior they can be, serving honorably alongside their brothers.

Back in 1st edition, Hobgoblins were even dressed in Oriental-style equipment in the Monster Manual, making the feudal Japan connection you've drawn pretty close to 'old-school.'

I'd use Nomog-Gaeya as written, and give him Law, Evil, War and maybe Fire for 'core' Domains. Of the non-Core OGL Domains, Community, Glory, Nobility and Strength seem appropriate (especially Nobility and Strength, IMO, as Hobgoblins seem all about honor and strength). Evil and Fire might be dropped in favor of those two, although I'd recommend keeping Evil. Law and War seem to be so central to the concept that they'd be 'given.' There's already plenty of Domains that fit there, but if non-OGL Domains from the Spell Compendium are considered, Tyranny, Pride, Planning, Hatred, Domination, Courage and / or Competition are all worth a look. (I'd be tempted to stick to Law, Evil, War, Nobility and Strength, to start, with maybe only Tyranny from the SpC. Six Domain options should be fine.)

The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer has several diety choices that have multiple Favored Weapon options. I would consider allowing a Cleric of Nomog-Gaeya to use the War Domain to either A) gain martial weapon proficiency with both longsword and hand axe, but Weapon Focus with only one, or B) gain martial weapon focus with both longsword and hand axe, but gain the benefits of Weapon Focus only when wielding *both* weapons in two-weapon fighting style (so he'd effectively have weapon focus in both, but only when wielding both a longsword *and* a hand axe. If he is disarmed of one, he no longer gains the weapon focus benefit with the other.).

Clerics with the War Domain would be all-but forbidden to use Shields (although some would bend this rule by using Animated Shields, or, at lower levels, flunky shield-bearers standing ready to Aid Other their defense, perhaps even relegating this task to animated skeletons, which aren't good for much else, depending on your level, which would be considered good tactics), while even non-War Domain Clerics would still be discouraged from using a shield (because they are supposed to be setting an example. One doesn't get glory and honor in battle by cowering behind a shield, one gets it by reaping your enemies before you!).

Hobgoblins would probably consider dogs, horses and oxen, easily trained and hard-working animals, to be especially worthy of respect. Some of the higher ranking sorts might dabble in falconry, but most would sneer at it, or at the aping of human / elven customs in general. None would tame wolves, due to their association with the sniveling goblins, and they would avoid excessive use of the color red, or the whip, for the same reason (favored animal, color and weapon of the goblin-god, Khurgorbaeyag). Some might take this so far as to to beat slaves or herd animals with flexible rattan sticks, which raise stinging welts similar to a whip, but look distinctly different.

Whether or not Nomog-Gaeya is acknowledged as subservient to Maglubiyet would depend on the particular group. Some might completely ignore that notion, finding it laughable and offensive (or suggesting that Maglubiyet sits on the throne, but that his 'tactical advisor' Nomog-Gaeya is the brains of the operation and *really* runs things...). Others might regard it as a teaching tool, that even Nomog-Gaeya himself is but a soldier, following orders (as his followers should!), and serving as a 'Great General' of the hobgoblin people.

To go further with the feudal Japan feel, perhaps Hobgoblin 'samurai' two-weapon fight with masterwork longswords and hand axes, which are handed down through generations as 'ancestral weapons,' while Hobgoblin monks practice a style that uses short swords (along with kama / hand axes) as monk weapons, replacing both nunchaku and sai.

bosssmiley
2009-10-12, 02:38 PM
Let them worship Hextor and Heironeous(sp?) as a single dual entity under a Hobgoblin name. Really screw with canon-worshipping players. :smallwink:

IMG: 15 godlings (+ sundry demon princes). No racial exclusivity. Careful whose temple you're knocking over this week.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-12, 02:45 PM
Nomog-Geaya, as mentioned. Using the SRD Domains, I'd give him:

Law, Evil, Strength, and War. Nobility would also work, especially for a version that's more about hobgoblin honor and supremacy. Community seems to be about calming conflicts, so I wouldn't go with that one.

For favored weapons, he's listed as using a broadsword... which translates into a longsword or scimitar for 3e.

Thurbane
2009-10-12, 09:26 PM
No reason that Hobgoblins couldn't follow Hextor, in much the same way many Gnolls worship Erythnul...

...anyway, according to the LG Deity pdf, here's the lowdown on Nomog-Geaya:
Lesser Deity
Portfolio: Hobgoblins, War, Authority
LE
Favored weapon: Longsword or handaxe
Domains: Courage, Evil, Law, Strength, Tyranny, War

AslanCross
2009-10-12, 11:08 PM
Agreed on the feudal Japan theme. I've even used some OA weapons for hobgoblins in my campaigns on multiple occasions. Typically for elite units it's the nagamaki (2d4, 2-handed martial, x3).

I remember Maglubiyet's favored weapon being the morning star, but maybe wires just crossed somewhere. My first campaign (set in FR) did feature several tribes of hobgoblins worshiping Bane, but that was because they were in collusion with the Church of Bane-funded Zhentarim.