Batman: Year One

[Erts]

I had been waiting to read Year One for the longest time, and was anticipating it as it was ranked #1 on the top 25 Batman novels.

I finally read it, and while it was excellent, I don't think it should get that high on the list of Batman Novels. Long Halloween I preffer as a depiction as early Batman.

The thing which annoyed me the most was how they didn't explore Bruce's training, or where he gets all of his tools.

Overall however, it was good.

I don't know why I'm sharing this, but what are your thoughts on it?

[Dienekes]

Batman: Year One is great. However, I think it fails to live up to expectations because we've been spoiled a bit by Batman Begins. Let's face it, even if some don't quite like BB's style it explained quite a lot about every detail into how Batman truly became Batman.

However, that is not really Year One's goal. Year One is about showing how Batman as Batman got started, not his tools or his training (his training would take place before Batman's first year anyway) but how he started his relationship with Gordon and his sprees against the criminal world.

That being said, for what it is I definitely think it deserves it's spot for #1 Batman comic. Though, it is not my favorite. I'll admit I liked Long Halloween more (though I thought it's Joker was more of a failed cameo) and most of The Dark Knight Returns I found more enjoyable even if I think parts were very flawed.

[Ahab]

I really enjoyed Year One, especially because it further explored the history of Commissioner Gordon. The reason Bruce's training wasn't discussed much was that the novel exists to show us how his first few times fighting crime went, and how he developed the persona of Batman. The same thing goes for Gordon, however I don't think the title "Batman and Gordon: Year One" sounds very attractive.

I'm not a big fan of Loeb, though. Any given Batman book of his will include at least half of Batman's villians. However, I did enjoy his Captain America book.

[Tirian]

I don't think they have still given a full accounting of who trained Bruce during the Lost Years (or even how much of our understanding from Pre-Crisis exists even in the Year One continuity). I suppose they want to keep it loose so that they can add in new characters with long backstories. I think that they sort of touch on the list in The Many Deaths of Batman, but that might not satisfy you either.

I think we're to believe that being able to make his own weapons was part of his ninjutsu training, perhaps enhanced with Western training in mechanical engineering, and of course Waynetech came into the picture eventually.

[Catch]

I'm not a big fan of Loeb, though. Any given Batman book of his will include at least half of Batman's villians. However, I did enjoy his Captain America book.

Over the years, Batman readers have come to expect this. Sometimes it's overdone, as if the whole Rogue's Gallery needs to be involved to make a good story (and it's more than just Loeb that writes that way) and in other cases, it's justified and friggin' sweet. See: Hush.

Speaking on Year One, I applaud Miller's choice to develop Commissioner Gordon, who seems to be a favorite character or his, and the exclusion of any iconic Batman villains. Familiar faces can allow for the writer and artist to make the old foes their own, but not every story needs to have a costumed antagonist, and Batman the detective is a nice vehicle to develop a story like that.

[Tirian]

Speaking on Year One, I applaud Miller's choice to develop Commissioner Gordon, who seems to be a favorite character or his, and the exclusion of any iconic Batman villains. Familiar faces can allow for the writer and artist to make the old foes their own, but not every story needs to have a costumed antagonist, and Batman the detective is a nice vehicle to develop a story like that.

*cough*Lieutenant Gordon*cough*

I agree that it's nice to be reminded that Batman's ultimate mission is rooting out street crime and corruption. At the same time, adding the mythology of all the different crime families didn't do a single thing for me, although it only really became a big problem in The Long Halloween when I couldn't manage to care about who each victim was and who would want them dead.

[kpenguin]

Speaking on Year One, I applaud Miller's choice to develop Commissioner Gordon, who seems to be a favorite character or his, and the exclusion of any iconic Batman villains. Familiar faces can allow for the writer and artist to make the old foes their own, but not every story needs to have a costumed antagonist, and Batman the detective is a nice vehicle to develop a story like that.

Miller didn't quite exclude all iconic Batman villains. Catwoman does, infamously, make a few appearances.

[Catch]

*cough*Lieutenant Gordon*cough*

I agree that it's nice to be reminded that Batman's ultimate mission is rooting out street crime and corruption. At the same time, adding the mythology of all the different crime families didn't do a single thing for me, although it only really became a big problem in The Long Halloween when I couldn't manage to care about who each victim was and who would want them dead.

I grew up with B:TAS. He'll always be he Comish to me. :smallwink:

And it's true, the mafia wars in Gotham could have been fleshed out a bit more. The Long Halloween gave it an honest shot, but fell a bit short, and I'd like to see more writing that doesn't feature some garish cartoony villain.


Miller didn't quite exclude all iconic Batman villains. Catwoman does, infamously, make a few appearances.

Oh, of course not. I meant in Year One.

Edit: Right, right. She doesn't function quite as a villain in that role, though, so it didn't stick out in my mind.

[Dienekes]

Oh, of course not. I meant in Year One.

She appears in Year One too.

It actually started a rather large canon debate on if (like all other strong willed Millar females) Catwomen started out as a whore.

[kpenguin]

Oh, of course not. I meant in Year One.

She... appears on Year One... she even puts on the catsuit for the first time in Year One.

[Revlid]

Over the years, Batman readers have come to expect this. Sometimes it's overdone, as if the whole Rogue's Gallery needs to be involved to make a good story (and it's more than just Loeb that writes that way) and in other cases, it's justified and friggin' sweet. See: Hush.
Hush was average at best, crippled by its new villain and later retcons at worst.

Heart of Hush, on the other hand... :smallamused:

[Vic_Sage]

Hush was average at best, crippled by its new villain and later retcons at worst.

Heart of Hush, on the other hand... :smallamused:
Sucked just as bad and was a mediocre capstone to Dini's mediocre run.

[The Evil Thing]

Batman: Year One is great. However, I think it fails to live up to expectations because we've been spoiled a bit by Batman Begins. Let's face it, even if some don't quite like BB's style it explained quite a lot about every detail into how Batman truly became Batman.
I see what you mean. Even though it preceded Batman Begins by over ten years I still found myself comparing it to the film unfavourably. I do think it's an excellent book, however. I'm just strange like that, I suppose.

[Avilan the Grey]

Year one is my absolute favourite Batman book, period. Especially because it is set before any of the villains appear, and obviously hints at him being the catalyst that will bring forth all the costumed nutcases. We see Dent, Selina, and the last page tells us that the Joker has emerged.

And I love the depiction of Gordon. This is why I loathed the Tim Burton-and-followers Gordons. This Gordon is competent. This Gordon is, quite frankly, damned scary if you see that side of him.

[Vic_Sage]

Yeah thats one thing that's bugged me about the movies other than Dark Knight, Gordon feels totally useless and pointless.

[Tirian]

She appears in Year One too.

It actually started a rather large canon debate on if (like all other strong willed Millar females) Catwomen started out as a whore.

That's not quite accurate. Weak-willed Miller females are also whores. :smallwink: FWIW, when Catwoman Year One came out, they 'retconned' it to indicate that the dominatrix gig was undercover work.

There was very little sign of a post-Crisis reboot in Batman the way there was with Superman, but the one very obvious and pleasing thing was Jim Gordon's competence. And, with few exceptions, it has rippled throughout all media. Frex, I've seen conversations in both the comics and B:TAS indicating that he knew that his daughter was Batgirl and it took all of his will to NOT know who Batman was because he didn't want to consciously obstruct justice in trying to catch him. (I don't know what excuse everyone else in Gotham City has.)

[Dienekes]

There was very little sign of a post-Crisis reboot in Batman the way there was with Superman, but the one very obvious and pleasing thing was Jim Gordon's competence. And, with few exceptions, it has rippled throughout all media. Frex, I've seen conversations in both the comics and B:TAS indicating that he knew that his daughter was Batgirl and it took all of his will to NOT know who Batman was because he didn't want to consciously obstruct justice in trying to catch him. (I don't know what excuse everyone else in Gotham City has.)

Joker=doesn't care, and actively tries to prevent others from knowing
Two-Face=has really no excuse
Penguin= is an idiot
Bane= knows
Riddler= knows
Catwomen=knows
Mister Freeze=doesn't care
Scarecrow=no excuse
Poison Ivy= implied that she knows several times
Ra's=knows

A lot of the big folks have learned who Batman is over time, they just get writting plot stupidity and don't use it to their advantage.

[Tirian]

A lot of the big folks have learned who Batman is over time, they just get writting plot stupidity and don't use it to their advantage.

No, I mean every single Joe Sixpack living in Gotham City. Once you get over the hump that superheroes have civilian identities (which is well understood in the DCU), it's inconceivable that it isn't the biggest urban legend in town and irrefutable to boot.

[Dienekes]

No, I mean every single Joe Sixpack living in Gotham City. Once you get over the hump that superheroes have civilian identities (which is well understood in the DCU), it's inconceivable that it isn't the biggest urban legend in town and irrefutable to boot.

They touch on this quite a bit in Year One (and a little in Long Halloween) that Bruce looks completely incompetent in just about everything, as well as it is believed his family has close ties to the very mobsters he's trying to take down. While I think these are a bit of a stretch reasonwise I'll give it to them, simply because it's Batman.

[JaxGaret]

They touch on this quite a bit in Year One (and a little in Long Halloween) that Bruce looks completely incompetent in just about everything, as well as it is believed his family has close ties to the very mobsters he's trying to take down. While I think these are a bit of a stretch reasonwise I'll give it to them, simply because it's Batman.

Bruce is also one of the best disguise artists/con men/actors in the world. His public Bruce Wayne persona is a darn good acting job.

Also see the whole Matches Malone plan for confirmation. Heck, he isn't even wearing a mask for that one, and no one knew it was him.

[Erts]

Frex, I've seen conversations in both the comics and B:TAS indicating that he knew that his daughter was Batgirl and it took all of his will to NOT know who Batman was because he didn't want to consciously obstruct justice in trying to catch him. (I don't know what excuse everyone else in Gotham City has.)

Wait, how does that work? I don't think its possible for a guy trained to solve crimes to go "Don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it" for hours on end everytime he saw Barbara not in the house. Plus, as soon as he realized that she was Batgirl, and noticed the amount of time she spent at Wayne manor, he would immediately put two and two together.

[Avilan the Grey]

Wait, how does that work? I don't think its possible for a guy trained to solve crimes to go "Don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it" for hours on end everytime he saw Barbara not in the house. Plus, as soon as he realized that she was Batgirl, and noticed the amount of time she spent at Wayne manor, he would immediately put two and two together.

Yeah. And the result would be: Hell she's gonna marry rich ;)

[Killer Angel]

She... appears on Year One... she even puts on the catsuit for the first time in Year One.

Yep, but Catwoman in Year One didn't oppose to Batman, so baybe we can't still consider her a Villain.

Taht said, YO is definitely one of the best Batman (maybe not the better, but still...), and I actually like the idea to not shows the training or the equipment. It merely shows the failure of the first weak try of Bruce as a Vigilante, and centers more on Gordon's development and on the growing link between Gordon and Batman, one of the main thing in all the Batman history.

[Dienekes]

Yep, but Catwoman in Year One didn't oppose to Batman, so baybe we can't still consider her a Villain.

Wait... people still consider her a villain? Since when?

[Killer Angel]

Wait... people still consider her a villain? Since when?

Well, I've never considered her a classic villain, in the specific I was referring to the posts n. 7 and 8, and the dubious role of catwoman as a villain.

[Zeta Kai]

Catwoman has been a very strange "villain" for a very long time. She commits some interesting crimes, but she doesn't do much that could be classified as true villainy, & she usually opposes those who do. She something of an enigma, in that regard, dancing across the line bewteen hero & villain, antihero & antivillain. I find her most interesting aspect is her inability to be neatly defined, especially in the black-&-white world of comic books.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Year One was one of the GNs that I picked up over the summer, to acquaint myself better with Batman. I think that I finished that one after The Dark Knight Returns, which was epic. Year One I found to be amazing, first of all because of the tone. It was everything I hoped for in Batman, dark, gritty, and noir-stylized. Downright sweet.

True, it didn't cover his training, but I wasn't actually looking for that in the book. I expected a story about Gotham, and that's what I got. That, and Gordon. Oh my gosh, Gordon. THE BOMB. So many moments of awesome that it wasn't even funny.

I loved the guy in the Batman movies, and this utterly cemented my love of that character. This truly was Batman and Gordon: Year One.

[Avilan the Grey]

Catwoman has been a very strange "villain" for a very long time. She commits some interesting crimes, but she doesn't do much that could be classified as true villainy (snipped).

The point is that she is a thief, a cat burglar. That does not make her a villain, it only makes her a criminal.

[Dienekes]

Catwoman has been a very strange "villain" for a very long time. She commits some interesting crimes, but she doesn't do much that could be classified as true villainy, & she usually opposes those who do. She something of an enigma, in that regard, dancing across the line bewteen hero & villain, antihero & antivillain. I find her most interesting aspect is her inability to be neatly defined, especially in the black-&-white world of comic books.

Oh she's interesting for sure, just read Long Halloween where she's arguably more interesting than Dent. But those who consider her a real villain need to have a nice long talk with the Joker, Lex Luthor, and Dr. Doom. (Though I must admit I rather enjoyed the villainy Gaiman did to her in WHttCC)