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View Full Version : Red Hand of Doom, any advice?



Kroy
2009-10-12, 08:06 PM
I got Red Hand of Doom ~2 weeks ago. I've read through it a few times, and read both Saph's and Aslan's (I think) campaign journals. I'm probably going to run it with a group of unoptimized characters including: a Blaster, a ToB paladin, a Shapeshift druid, and a Rogue.

So, advice. What encounters should be buffed/nerfed? How tight to the schedule should I keep? How should I run the battle of Brindol? Any and all advice is welcomed!

Eldariel
2009-10-12, 08:40 PM
Well, it's...I'm just going to quote kjones's sum-up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6991454&postcount=49) from his Campaign Journal as I pretty much agree with the points and he put time into writing it open:

Thoughts

Red Hand of Doom is a fantastic module. It is epic in scope, but plays out as a series of exciting adventures. It is perhaps a textbook example of how to do large-scale battles and wars in D&D. It's written for the "sweet spot" of D&D - players are high enough level to not feel useless, but low enough level that they can't take on the army single-handedly. However, it is not without its flaws. The module is rough around the edges in many places, to be enumerated below. While it can be run "out of the box", Red Hand of Doom will be immensely improved if it is treated as a framework, on which the DM can expand. This post is not intended to complain about the shortcomings of the module, but rather as a systematic way of improving it.

First of all, The Red Hand of Doom is balanced for a party of four core-only PCs - specifically, a meatshield, skillmonkey, healbot, and blaster. With more than four, action advantage against single foes becomes a problem, though these kinds of battles are relatively uncommon. The solution to this is relatively simple; you can toss in an extra couple of monsters into most battles without too much trouble.

The second issue is more problematic. Any group deviating from this "default" configuration will find many of the encounters to be unchallenging and unfun if run as written. This, too, can be rectified without too much trouble. NPC spell selections should be completely reworked, in light of the fact that many NPC casters have save DCs that are too low to be considered threatening. I did not re-stat the rank-and-file horde members, but given the opportunity to re-run this module, I probably would have done so. The wyrmlords should be re-statted. Kharn is the most in need of this treatment, but Saarvith and Koth benefit greatly as well. (Ulwai is mostly OK.) The dragons can also be improved by re-working feat selections - Awaken Spell Resistance from Draconomicon is a good choice. Change in age categories are possible, but I'd only recommend it in the case of Regiarax, and possibly Ozyrrandion. Finally, all major NPCs should be given items, spells, and abilities to prevent an anti-climactic demise. Potions of lesser restoration are a good place to start, as are luck feats from Complete Scoundrel.

Note that the shortcomings of the encounters as written are much more prominent at higher levels. I'd say it starts with the Battle of Rhest, and gets worse from there. Furthermore, I should add that even if the NPCs in the module were more usable, I'd still recommend tweaking them to meet the specific nature of your party. Finally, note that these recommendations are not based merely on the relatively low power of the builds presented in the module. Even if your party is unoptimized, many of the NPCs in the module are fairly uninteresting, and can be made more so without making them strictly more "powerful". For example, some of the rank-and-file have Alertness as a feat. This will probably never be useful in any significant way. Of course, you could swap it out for Power Attack or Martial Study... but depending on what you want them to do, you could also give them Improved Initiative, and watch as they get the drop on the PCs again and again. (Or something like that. The details are up to you. Framework, remember?)

One aspect of the module that really needs tweaking is treasure placement, which I found to be very poorly done. I'm not sure how it compares to wealth-by-level, and I don't really care, but the distribution is very uneven, and this is most notable at early levels. For example, there's a +1 frost bastard sword to be found in Vraath Keep, when the party is 5th level. Not only is this too powerful a weapon for a 5th level character, it leaves everyone else behind. A more comprehensive look at treasure in RHoD is in the works, but a good rule of thumb is to take the big items and convert them into a few lower-level items using the guidelines in the Magic Item Compendium.

There are a few plot holes present in the module. The link between Chapter I and Chapter II is weak as written, and I'd recommend coming up with something else entirely. It's not hard for the party to move around the Vale quickly, finishing Chapter III long before the Horde arrives at Brindol. The best thing to do here is to create additional side quests for the party to complete, but you'll have to be creative. This is also a good time to wrap up any loose ends that may have accumulated throughout the campaign thus far. Finally, you could just speed up the Horde, though I would suggest planning to do this in the first place rather than having them move at the speed of plot.

Chapter V deserves its own special mention. After the conclusion of the Battle of Brindol, the Fane of Tiamat felt anti-climactic to me. If I were to run this module again, I would rework it completely, removing some areas, consolidating others, and coming up with a comprehensive plan of reaction similar to the ones outlined for other areas in the module. (Most notably Rhest.) My other thoughts on Chapter V can be found previously in this thread.

Unlike many other modules, the Red Hand of Doom module does a good job of not assuming that the players will take the straight-and-narrow path, and to its credit, it provides many provisions for what to do with wandering players, or those who miss a plot token or two along the way. However, the Vale is a big place, and many areas are simply not well fleshed out. I'm thinking specifically of the Hammerfast Holds here, but there are many others. Again, recall that this module should be viewed as a framework, and take the opportunity to flesh out small towns, minor NPCs, and random encounters on your own. Or be good at improvising, and remain consistent. If the party insists on wandering about the Vale, however, relate everything back to the coming of the Red Hand. Sooner or later, they'll get the picture.

The Red Hand of Doom is a fantastic module, even if it does require some work. I hope that any of you who choose to run it have as much fun with it as I did, and that you find my experience and advice useful.


So, I'd suggest restatting:
- Rank-and-file Horde Members. In particular
* Hobgoblin Bladebearers: These are clearly Warblades(/Swordsages). Everything from the fluff to the abilities matches Warblade.
* Goblin Worgriders: These have no damage output by default. 1d4 just doesn't cut it. You could rebuild them as Scouts, handwaving the Skirmish errata. You could also give them Crossbows and Crossbow Sniper for some real damage output. Worgs are mostly fine as is.
* Goblin Sergeant: Funny how Sergeant doesn't have any impact on his subjects' combat capability. I suggest Marshal/Warblade (or Crusader) with some White Raven/Devoted Spirit or just Sublime Way Marshal (http://web.archive.org/web/20070221040553/http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=752414) if using Homebrew. This also ups their combat capability.
* Hobgoblin Regulars: These are supposed to be disciplined, skilled troops. They aren't. Make them Fighters, give them teamfighting feats like Formations Expert (unfortunately, it's got +6 BAB requirement, but you could handwave that given it makes no sense as troops in formations are low level by default and not having access to this just makes no sense), Phalanx Fighting and so on.

They could be used in files and rows, with the second row using reach weapons and Aid Another as appropriate. All of them should have readied actions by default to split up under an area attack (such as Fireball).

Other option is to make them Martial Rogues which drops their HP notably (but it was inexistent anyways) but gives them Evasion, actually enabling them to dodge those area effect spells to some degree. They'd need to pick up some proficiency with feat, but that's doable with 3 feats.
* Hobgoblin Veterans: These should just be few levels higher versions of the Regulars. Hit harder, are harder to hit, take more punishment and so on.
* Doomfist Monks: Unarmed Swordsages. Now.

- Big movers.
* Wyrmlords: By and large, all except Ulwai should probably be somewhat reworked. Particularly Kharn and Saarvith are really "Meh" as written. Their spell selection, especially, takes some work. Saarvith as Mystic Ranger works a lot better too, especially given that all the other Wyrmlords are full casters (and why not; they're directly under Tiamat)
* Dragons: Repick feats, maybe increase Age of Ozyrrandion and Regiarix
* Ghostlord: You can safely toss him a couple of more levels; Blighters aren't the best class ever and given his age, few more levels makes sense.


Overall, you might want to look at the spell lists of the spellcasters; some are fine, others are pretty meh. Monster Manual V has "Hobgoblin Duskblade" and "Hobgoblin Warcaster" as premade entries and both are fairly good; I know at least Aslancross has been using them to a good effect to spice up the rank'n'file of the army.

Oh, and if you give your PCs anything above Elite Array, you should probably restat the bigger leaders of the Horde with said array; the module assumes Elite Array PCs, which means Elite Array opposition. Basically, I suggest things with names should be made with array equal to what the PCs used.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-12, 08:40 PM
Kill things with fire.

Kroy
2009-10-12, 08:48 PM
Kill things with fire.

How did I know you were going to say that?

Eldariel, you are amazing! Thank you so much This is exactly the kind of advice I wanted. I mean, I appreciate Pharaoh's Fist, but you are awesome!

Anything else? Or is that about it? Eldariel covered pretty much any complaint I heard about it.

kjones
2009-10-12, 08:51 PM
Yeah, Eldariel is the awesome one... :smalltongue:

Take a look at my campaign journals if you're interested in specifics. I'm in the process of re-creating the excellent MIC treasure conversion thread that was once to be found on the Wizards boards before it was swallowed by the Time of Troubles. And feel free to PM me with questions.

Eldariel
2009-10-12, 08:58 PM
Yeah, Eldariel is the awesome one... :smalltongue:

Take a look at my campaign journals if you're interested in specifics. I'm in the process of re-creating the excellent MIC treasure conversion thread that was once to be found on the Wizards boards before it was swallowed by the Time of Troubles. And feel free to PM me with questions.

Speaking of that, Google Cache seems to have saved some of said conversion guide (http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:FkK3F97290wJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-818920+magic+item+treasure+conversion+site:forums. gleemax.com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=fi&client=firefox-a). Just...in case you find it useful in the whole recreation-part. Also, I second the "read Kjones's journal"; it's up there with Saph's and Aslan's.

Draz74
2009-10-12, 09:01 PM
I'm in the process of re-creating the excellent MIC treasure conversion thread that was once to be found on the Wizards boards before it was swallowed by the Time of Troubles.

Nice! Any idea when this will be done?

kjones
2009-10-12, 09:21 PM
Nice! Any idea when this will be done?

In my copious spare time. :smalltongue: It will be done in time for you grandchildren to appreciate it, how about that...

Eldarial: I tried to find those old threads, but I guess I didn't look hard enough. Thanks!

AslanCross
2009-10-12, 11:10 PM
I can send you my redone statblocks if you wish. I'm about to go to a meeting, so drop me a PM as to how I can send you my stuff.

Zephyros
2009-10-12, 11:47 PM
Btw Aslan we are getting anxious (I believe its not only me :smallbiggrin: ) to read once more your and your players stories :smallwink:

Draz74
2009-10-13, 01:07 AM
In my copious spare time. :smalltongue: It will be done in time for you grandchildren to appreciate it, how about that...

Haha, fair enough.

AslanCross
2009-10-13, 01:31 AM
Btw Aslan we are getting anxious (I believe its not only me :smallbiggrin: ) to read once more your and your players stories :smallwink:

We're all busy. ): It's finals week this week, so the next 2 or so weeks are going to be filled with me checking papers and exams. My players are working on papers themselves, or salvaging papers that have been sabotaged by incompetent groupmates through plagiarism. :P

I'm going to update my thread soon re: interim plans for the time between now and the fateful Siege of Brindol.

Heck, if I'm really bored I might post links to my soundtrack as well. :P

BooNL
2009-10-13, 01:54 AM
The advice given here seems excellent so far. You cannot go wrong with RHoD veterans like Eldariel, AslanCross and Kjones.

You did mention most of your party will be pretty unoptimized. Remember that the module was written to be as mainstream as possible. So take every assumption WotC made about their game and thake that into account. One such assumption being that the best wizards are blasters, which you incidentally have in your party.

Also, as a shameless plug. I just started a RHoD game on these forums. You can watch the progress here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127317). We're only up to the Marauder Attack now, which I hope to finish today. (also note I fragged up the names of Zarr and Uth-Lar)

Mman497
2009-10-13, 01:16 PM
The biggest problem with RHoD is that a decent party can blow right through the encounters. You can either get your party not to optimize, or you can rework the encounters. Eldariel has many good suggestions on which things to rework, but since your party isn't optimized, you should be alright.

The other problem is trying to get your party to do much without railroading them. It's gonna depend on how well you as a dm can create connections between events. One problem I had was getting the characters from Vaarth Keep towards the horde.

Thurbane
2009-10-13, 08:41 PM
One piece of advise I'll give you from a player's persective - because RHoD is such an "on the clock" adventure, the players aren't going to get much downtime at all. This can hurt certain characters, like item crafters and Wizards/Archivists who need time to scribe spells into their book.

AslanCross
2009-10-14, 04:04 AM
One piece of advise I'll give you from a player's persective - because RHoD is such an "on the clock" adventure, the players aren't going to get much downtime at all. This can hurt certain characters, like item crafters and Wizards/Archivists who need time to scribe spells into their book.

The alternative option here is to use the Craft Point variant from the SRD for crafting. It doesn't really help spell scribing much, but at least the timetable's a bit more relaxed.

To those who PMed me: I'll send you the statblocks in a few hours' time. Kinda busy at the moment.