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Random832
2009-10-13, 12:32 PM
Since there are two locate city nuke threads going in the RPG forum right now, I got inspired.

{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will||1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|0|0|2|0|Flash Frost Spell|1||||||||
2|1|0|3|0|Bonus Feat|1||||||||
3|1|1|3|1|Evasion|2|1|||||||
4|2|1|4|1|Bonus Feat|2|1|||||||
5|2|1|4|1|Arcane Thesis|2|2|1||||||
6|3|2|5|2|Bonus Feat|2|2|1||||||
7|3|2|5|2|Improved Evasion|3|2|2|1|||||
8|4|2|6|2|Bonus Feat|3|2|2|1|||||
9|4|3|6|3|Bonus Feat|3|3|2|2|1||||
10|5|3|7|3|Bonus Feat|3|3|2|2|1||||
11|5|3|7|3|Bonus Feat|3|3|3|2|2|1|||
12|6|4|8|4|Bonus Feat|3|3|3|2|2|1|||
13|6|4|8|4|Bonus Feat|4|3|3|3|2|2|1||
14|7|4|9|4|Bonus Feat|4|3|3|3|2|2|1||
15|7|5|9|5|Bonus Feat|4|4|3|3|3|2|2|1|
16|8|5|10|5|Bonus Feat|4|4|3|3|3|2|2|1|
17|8|5|10|5|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|3|3|3|2|2|1
18|9|6|11|6|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|3|3|3|2|2|1
19|9|6|11|6|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|4|3|3|3|2|2
20|10|6|12|6|Bonus Feat|4|4|4|4|3|3|3|2|2[/table]

Spell list: locate city.
Prepares spells as a wizard.
Gains Flash Frost Spell as a bonus feat at first level.
Gains Evasion at third level
Gains Arcane Thesis (locate city) as a bonus feat at fifth level (cannot benefit from taking the feat for locate city spells cast as this class until then)
Gains Improved Evasion at seventh level
Bonus feat list: Any metamagic feat. Feats only apply to locate city.

Epic: Finish spell levels 5-9 to four spells per day each using same pattern. Continue adding bonus feats at every level until you run out of metamagic feats in all allowed sourcebooks. Does not qualify for Epic Spellcasting on the basis of this class's spell slots.

woodenbandman
2009-10-13, 12:34 PM
Should get evasion, to avoid other city locator nukes.

EDIT: By the way, extremely interesting class idea. I think I might ask my DM if I can play a caster with only 1 to 3 spells known and just a ton of metamagic feats.

Random832
2009-10-13, 12:37 PM
Done - any ideas for other non-metamagic abilities? (it's metamagic heavy because all the LCN formulations require a bunch of metamagic, and to specialize in this you really want to be able to do more than one combination)

What do you think of a "metamagic progression" idea where you have a maximum cost for which metamagic feats you can learn at lower levels?

Mongoose87
2009-10-13, 12:50 PM
This is underpowered, as it does not get a familiar, nor can it specialize.

chiasaur11
2009-10-13, 12:58 PM
This is underpowered, as it does not get a familiar, nor can it specialize.

Ahem:

Groan.

Myou
2009-10-13, 01:21 PM
Ahem:

Groan.

Seconded. :smallyuk:

lesser_minion
2009-10-13, 05:51 PM
Seconded. :smallyuk:

Thirded. Or something equivalent.

Why has the whole "cannot specialise or gain a familiar ergo it sucks" meme resurfaced?

Mongoose87
2009-10-13, 06:05 PM
Thirded. Or something equivalent.

Why has the whole "cannot specialise or gain a familiar ergo it sucks" meme resurfaced?

Someone made a thread on the Lightning Warrior last week.

lesser_minion
2009-10-14, 02:15 AM
I know. That was what I meant by it resurfacing.

SurlySeraph
2009-10-14, 03:24 AM
This is a ridiculous class. With that said, I'd play it, in the right* sort of campaign.

*One in which blowing up several cities per day and having no other abilities allows you to make a valuable contribution to the party.


I know. That was what I meant by it resurfacing.

Because it would annoy you. We designed it specifically to annoy you.

lesser_minion
2009-10-14, 04:28 AM
Because it would annoy you. We designed it specifically to annoy you.

:smallamused:

I'm not actually annoyed. I just don't find the Lightning Warrior funny any more.

Mulletmanalive
2009-10-14, 10:20 AM
I'm sure this is mostly a symptom of not 'Optomising' anymore, but can someone please explain how you're supposed to blow up a city with nothing more than Locate City and some metamagic effects?

Best i can come up with is about 5d6+5 fire damage through some loose application of the rules...

lesser_minion
2009-10-14, 10:40 AM
There is a metamagic feat called Explosive Spell which pushes those in the area of the spell to the edge of the area, and deals damage based on how far that is.

The radius of Locate City is pretty big, so once you can cast an Explosive Locate City, you can wipe out cities using it (most people will be moved over 200 feet, which is 20d6 damage).

The trick is making Locate City a valid candidate for Explosive Spell, and doing so in such a way that it doesn't count as being too high in level to be usable.

There are a few issues regarding how Explosive Spell interacts with solid objects, IIRC.

Random832
2009-10-14, 10:50 AM
This is a ridiculous class. With that said, I'd play it, in the right* sort of campaign.

*One in which blowing up several cities per day and having no other abilities allows you to make a valuable contribution to the party.

To some extent it's a deconstruction - the 'standard' locate city bomb, after all, requires heavy feat investment in metamagic feats that aren't necessarily going to be broadly applicable (and i'm now seeing some indication that applying flash frost to a snowcasting spell [which I accidentally omitted from the class] requires a spontaneous caster).

I see this as an NPC class, really - something that a military would train people to be used as weapons.

Maybe a fully urbanized* campaign world, with two (or maybe three, shades of 1984) megastates perpetually at war with one another.

*to pull this off without increasing tech levels too much, you need a tippyverse, since where are you going to grow food?

mikeejimbo
2009-10-14, 01:52 PM
These people are basically nuclear missiles. I could see a lot of campaign intrigue revolving around them, actually.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-14, 02:29 PM
Do you have a counter for the "locate city is a circle" argument? (locate city's area is 2D and therefore will only have a few miles of range, and explosive spell will merely push people a few feet up)

ericgrau
2009-10-14, 03:53 PM
Add a class feature to erase that ambiguity.

Random832
2009-10-14, 03:56 PM
Do you have a counter for the "locate city is a circle" argument? (locate city's area is 2D and therefore will only have a few miles of range, and explosive spell will merely push people a few feet up)

That's the "locate city can't actually locate cities" argument, and any DM who holds to that interpretation should be honest and simply ban the class outright. It's not really an appropriate class for PCs anyway - this has to be integrated into the worldbuilding to make any sense, since it completely changes the nature of the balance of power.

But here goes: 'For the purpose of this spell, "circle" shall refer to a geographic circle, usque ad coelum et ad inferos. It extends downward to the limit of the crust, and upward to the limit of the atmosphere.'

Siosilvar
2009-10-14, 04:00 PM
Do you have a counter for the "locate city is a circle" argument? (locate city's area is 2D and therefore will only have a few miles of range, and explosive spell will merely push people a few feet up)

I said it in the other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7116959&postcount=15), and I'll say it again: Use spherical geometry. Locate City "flattens" the planet and draws a circle out on that sphere, finding cities with that.

Although this technically gives you infinite height (the world is effectively 2D for this spell, thus all heights are the same).

Mulletmanalive
2009-10-14, 04:26 PM
Wait, Locate City has a Reflex save? [Requirements for the use of the Explosive Spell Metamagic feat] Or is there some way of changing it's otherwise [one would assume Will (Harmless, Object) spell into a Reflex one?

Siosilvar
2009-10-15, 04:10 PM
Wait, Locate City has a Reflex save? [Requirements for the use of the Explosive Spell Metamagic feat] Or is there some way of changing it's otherwise [one would assume Will (Harmless, Object) spell into a Reflex one?

Snowcasting (adds Cold descriptor)
Flash Frost Spell (adds damage -- using Snowcasting to meet requirement)
Energy Substitution (changes to Electricity)
Born of Three Thunders (adds Fortitude save v. stunning and Reflex save v. prone if stunned -- using Energy Substitution and Flash Frost to meet requirements)
Explosive Spell (using the Flash Frost and Born of Three Thunders to meet requirements)

Rainbownaga
2009-10-15, 08:29 PM
...and then just throw on a fel drain so that even if they make their save or are standing near a wall they also lose a level unless they have both cold and lightning resistance.



Also note that explosive spell isn't really as effective in a dungeon as at least half the monsters are likely to just be shoved into the nearest wall and take an extra d6-2d6 damage :smallfrown: