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Greymane
2009-10-13, 02:07 PM
Hey guys, a friend of mine is going to be running Tomb of Horrors in the next little while for our IRL group, and I could use a little help building my character.

I've decided I want to give a Factotum a shot, since I never have before, and the class seems more than fun. The quest I have for you guys, is how best to maximize his Intelligence score. What sort of race I should be and what templates I could apply an' stuff.

We have a couple of houserules in our favor in this matter, reducing Level Adjustments across the board by one (unless it's a LA+1 Template. That's still LA+1), and making all LA 0 races pick a single stat of their choice to add +2 to it.

I have access to nearly all 3.5 books, excluding Incarnum, and the DM may allow some Dragon and Web Enchancment stuff on a case-by-case basis. His idea of cheesey is skewed, however, as he felt a half-fiend Lesser Tiefling was cheesy.

Thanks in advance for the help, guys!

Eloel
2009-10-13, 02:08 PM
What level are you guys planning to start at? (ToH has various entry levels depending on AOL[average optimization level])

Greymane
2009-10-13, 02:26 PM
My bad! Knew I was forgetting something. Level 9. Standard WBL.

Gan The Grey
2009-10-13, 05:34 PM
My advice? Pick one of the four traditional roles: frontliner, skill monkey, healer/buffer, nuker/debuffer. Remember that ToH was designed initially for a system with far fewer options. It might be a good idea to stick to the more conventional sources of DnD material: races, classes, spells.

This was the same information I provided to my party before running them through ToH. We just finished a few weeks ago. Aside from a few deaths due to player miscalculation, they did very well.

Keep in mind, there is alot of cheese that can break this dungeon. Avoid cheese, or it loses every ounce of fun.

Tanaric
2009-10-13, 05:36 PM
If an LA0 race gets +2 to a stat, I'd recommend a Human (or their smaller counterparts, Strongheart Halflings). That way you get a boost to int and a bonus feat (Why, hello there, Font of Inspiration. You're looking lovely today.)

Of course, there's a lot of ways you can break a lot of things with what you've been handed, but that's not really what you're aiming for, is it?

Tar Palantir
2009-10-13, 05:40 PM
I still haven't got around to reading up on Factotums, but assuming the modifiers don't kill you, Warforged can be quite effective due to their numerous immunities. Alternatively, Necropolitan can be even more effective, if your DM will allow it.

Other than that, the best advice I can give is this: Be Afraid. Everything is trying to kill you. Anything that isn't trying to kill you already has. Buy rogues in bulk, they're cheaper that way.

awa
2009-10-13, 05:44 PM
i would point out that the feat shape soul meld is really quite nice many of the soul melds are just better then similar feats like rage claws> die hard.

a high search skill is a must for at least one person in the party their are a lot of traps (just in case you hadn't heard)

Curmudgeon
2009-10-13, 05:48 PM
A Factotum can be a decent backup character for the Rogue front-liner. It's too bad you're at level 9, because you'd really like to take advantage of Skill Mastery at level 10. Use Aid Another to help out your Rogue's Search checks -- and expect to do almost nothing else for most of the module. :smallyuk:

Greymane
2009-10-13, 06:42 PM
Hm, so I should stay away from classes that don't emphasize one of the four main roles?

I'm really not trying to break the dungeon, but I am utterly BENT on surviving it. Even if my teammates don't.

Strongheart Halfling sounds like a good idea (Did I mention we start the game with a few bonus feats plus Flaws? :smallbiggrin:). I do like the idea of being a competent trapspringer AND being a halfling.

Warforged and Necropolitan, while solid choices and invariably cool, I would probably prefer to play something a little bit more normal. I was also thinking on a Lesser Tiefling. No bonus feat, but they get a +2 Int and I get to tack on another +2 to it for it having no LA.

I think our trapspringer is going to be a half-black dragon rogue. :smallconfused:

Akal Saris
2009-10-13, 07:18 PM
Well, factotum >>> rogue for ToH, given that only 1 creature in the ToH is actually vulnerable to sneak attack. Though evasion is helpful.

For races, human with a +2 in int is probably the best race, and your DM won't even think you're being cheesy. Gray Elf (from the MM) is also good, especially since you auto-sense secret doors, which the ToH is chock-ful of.

If you can use online material, I would just take Font of Inspiration a bunch of times.

FoI:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606

It's not that difficult to survive the ToH at 9th level with a full group as long as you're cautious and you have a very good trap-finder - though with the half-black dragon rogue, I'd be a little concerned, as he will be both 3 levels behind on finding traps and pretty awful in combat. Don't waste any points on RP skills or mind-affecting spells/abilities.

Good luck, and have fun!

crazedloon
2009-10-13, 07:41 PM
well I would also suggest you stick with factotum and go with a fire elf :smallbiggrin: have the +2 be on your int thus you will have +2 dex -2 con (sorta hurts) +4 int - 2 cha so great for your skill monkey. Also you get a nice free search check around any secret doors which maxed search should should find most doors

Curmudgeon
2009-10-13, 08:45 PM
well I would also suggest you stick with factotum and go with a fire elf :smallbiggrin: have the +2 be on your int thus you will have +2 dex -2 con (sorta hurts) +4 int - 2 cha so great for your skill monkey.
You're reading that entry incorrectly. These stats replace the normal racial ability modifiers:
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma There's just no way you can get those stats without purposely misreading the rules by trying to add together completely incompatible Elf variants.

Akal Saris
2009-10-13, 08:53 PM
Actually, he's including the +2 from the OP's houserules mentioned at the start.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-13, 09:00 PM
Actually, he's including the +2 from the OP's houserules mentioned at the start.
Oops! My apologies. I've seen people misread those stats and try to add them to other Elf variants, and thought that was what was going on here.

Sorry about that, crazedloon.

D Knight
2009-10-13, 09:25 PM
just saying that you are going to play is bringing DOOM about you. i have never play factotum so i have no 2 cp about that.


but if you have a cleric ask him or her to look at entering Radiant Servant of Palor at 7th. My group loved me while i played one and i also had reach spell, which turned my touch heals into rays of heal for 30 ft. both PrC and feat r in complete divine

sambo.
2009-10-13, 09:40 PM
damn but i feel old now. i first played through that Gygaxian monument to sneakery over 15 years ago.


my advice: get lots of scrolls or wands of Detect Secret Doors, Detect Traps and the like. don't burn your daily spell slots on those spells as you'll need those spell slots for other purposes (like killing stuff and getting around the traps etc you'll find with your wand)

Akal Saris
2009-10-13, 11:12 PM
Good advice Sambo.

I actually just finished running it about 2 months ago, in a 2-year campaign with 2 PCs. It was a lot of fun, especially once the PCs began to get attached to their characters and became ultra-paranoid about dying =)

sambo.
2009-10-13, 11:35 PM
Good advice Sambo.
:smallbiggrin:
the system may have changed a lot since the good 'ole days of 1ed, but the damn Tomb Of Horrors is still the same ongoing eZ-deathtrap it's always been.

it's also a great place to be the Skill Monkey, coz you'll spend a LOT of time hunting for traps and the like.

and if you don't take 20 on trapfinds, a LOT, you'll be dead. very, very quickly.


especially once the PCs began to get attached to their characters and became ultra-paranoid about dying =)
dying in that damn Gygaxian nightmare is all too easy.

i've been through ToH a couple of times, i'm yet to do it where at least one PC doesn't die. we've had a few TpK's as well.

Gan The Grey
2009-10-14, 07:06 AM
Frankly, if you are creating this character specifically for running ToH, I would treat him like your first ever goldfish.

Don't name him, cuz you are just going to end up killing him. Attachment is the enemy. :smalltongue:

Radiant Servant = Awesome. One of my guys played the exact same character. I can't remember how he did it, but he figured out a way to use his daily turn attempts to fuel spontaneous Reach metamagics for his healing spells. Oh...and look into Revivify from Spell Compendium.

Elves are good too. Secret doors, natural resistances, pointy ears. All good things.

Jack_Simth
2009-10-14, 07:19 AM
Radiant Servant = Awesome. One of my guys played the exact same character. I can't remember how he did it, but he figured out a way to use his daily turn attempts to fuel spontaneous Reach metamagics for his healing spells. Oh...and look into Revivify from Spell Compendium.Divine Metamagic, from Complete Divine.

Guinea Anubis
2009-10-14, 07:34 AM
Frankly, if you are creating this character specifically for running ToH, I would treat him like your first ever goldfish.

Don't name him, cuz you are just going to end up killing him. Attachment is the enemy. :smalltongue:

I was going to post this..but someone beat me to the punch

crazedloon
2009-10-14, 08:29 AM
I will admit I ran the tomb and had a player run a factotum and he pretty much ran the first portion by himself (we never got together to finish it due to player conflict and I really didn't read the whole thing thus take my suggestions with a grain of salt)
if you go with the fire elf as I suggested and get an 18 in int (via lucky roll or point buy or whatever) you can have a 22 int with mods and a 24 with levels add in a +4 item for a 28 in int and that is +9 to important skills like search and disable device (with maxed ranks (12) you have a +21 without a roll since you cant fail you pretty much will pass every check ever.... add in the ability to take 20 for a 41) Oh and if you really want to piss of your dm remind him that a trap door in all truth is a door on the floor and you get free checks for those :smallwink:

all you need now is good spell selection and to be smart

as for spells you have 4 spells one 3rd level and the rest 2nd level or lower
My suggestions would be

3rd level: gaseous form or fly because other means of movement are nice for avoiding those traps
2nd level:rope trick for a nice place to sleep (if your dm wants to punish you for trying to regain your abilties with some nice sleep)
Spider climb because as above other means of movement are nice plus who puts a trap trigger on the ceiling
see invis (always a good way to hide things you need to find)
acid arrow (this is only suggested if you grab acid splatter the reserve feat to be able to burn through anything you can't figure out )
knock I mean really there will be doors

(My top suggestions would be gaseous form/acid arrow/spider climb/spider climb because your skills should get you through everything else)

As for skills I would suggest (besides the obvious)
autohypnosis:
being able to remember text to the t is nice for riddles....
being able to resist dying (if you havent figured out by everyone's comments is rather nice)
being able to resist poison even better
willpower will allow you to act on your own and heal yourself (remember you can do that)
knowledge (arcana, Dungeoneering, the planes, religion, nature) to be able to identify anything you run into (nice to be able to ask if they are susceptible to sneak attack :smallwink:)

Feats:
acid splatter (if you take the arrow as one of your spells)
and font because really that is all you need because you class is designed for this sort of dungeon (if you flip through the book the factotum is in you can even see one of the tombs many traps being tested by lidda :smallwink: )

Akal Saris
2009-10-14, 12:09 PM
My 2 PCs managed to duo it without dying at level 9, which surprised me a bit, but one was a rogue/ftr and the other was a straight cleric, so they covered their roles pretty well.

About 3-4 fights were touch-and-go, however, where it all came down to a lucky crit or miss, and one of the very first fights was nearly an insta-kill as the PCs blundered into a pair of traps while fighting the monster.

There was also 1 death when the PCs underestimated Gygax's deviousness and let their guards down, but we retconned it out as a stupid mistake =P (Spoiler: they entered the room that shakes with the green slime disguised as curtains, and proceeded to lie down on the floor and enjoy the back massage until 3 rounds later, when green slime fell and killed the cleric)

Greymane
2009-10-14, 01:22 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys! So far, I'm going with a Strongheart Halfling (if we don't do FR, I'm sure the DM will be okay with using their stats. If not, oh well, minus a Font of Inspiration) Factotum for now. I figure I'll be able to cover healing with wands of CLW and Lesser Vigor, and can burst heal with my little pseudo-Lay on Hands if need be.

Barring that, if we need a dedicated healer, I'll play Clericzilla with Radiant Servant of Pelor or something, as that seems to be popular around here.:smallamused:

With any luck (and halflings are lucky!) I'll live through this because I'm already attatched to the character concept. :smalleek:

Akal Saris
2009-10-14, 01:49 PM
Cool, good luck!

Blue Warlock
2009-10-14, 06:53 PM
What a coincidence, I am actually playing a factotum in a Tomb of Horrors game with the exact same goal of not getting killed, even if plenty of people in my party die. So far we have had 2 deaths, although I have found every trap in the dungeon thus far without getting hurt by it (a few times allies have willingly JUMPED INTO PITS or other traps while I am disarming them for some reason though...)

Most important thing to do is max search and disable device. I also agree with grabbing gaseous form like crazedloon said, I also nabbed invisibility just for escape purposes as well.