PDA

View Full Version : Beguiling Hiveminds



quiet1mi
2009-10-13, 11:19 PM
How does a Formian Hivemind work... Can they see through each other's eyes, or does it function like a radio, formains broadcasting their thoughts and experiences to each other?


The reason why I am asking is in the Spoiler
A few months ago I was playing a beguiler in one of my friends campaigns...

To cut to the chase... We encountered Formians...

The problem arose when I targeted the group of Formians with an Rainbow pattern... few passed the test, most did not... Me and the DM were stumped, we agreed on ruling it as the formians in the hivemind can spend a standard action to give one of their friends another save, others could help with an aid another action...

What do you guys think about it... What happens when a formian is hit with either an enchantment spell or an illusion spell...

Was this hard and fast adjudication, too hard on the beguiler when it comes to creatures with a hivemind as it turns high level spells into "Waste a standard action"...

Atcote
2009-10-14, 12:22 AM
Not being an expert of Formianology, I can say that you treated the case responcibly. I believe that such a powerful advantage makes sense with a hivemind, and gives it a stronger gameplay purpose than merely a mildy interesting character description.

I believe I'll use this tactic in the future for enchanting hiveminds.

When it comes to enchanting them, or using them against their will or controlling their mind... It becomes hard to say if all the others should become immediately aware of his beguilement. I believe that we would say that they were aware of their absence from the hivemind (as, technically, they've formed one with you), but not aware of what exactly is happening to their comrade.

Ozymandias9
2009-10-14, 12:45 AM
IIRC, the Formian Hivemind is presented as communication centered on the Queen. This, to me, indicates that they clearly still have independent will. I also don't remember anything other than communication, so I'm assuming that the hivemind can't exercise any kind of mind altering effect over its members.

I would certainly give them a circumstance bonus to their will save based on the expansive perception and communication that that mind would provide. On a secondary save, be it structural or from being forced to take an action they would find abhorrent, an additional circumstance bonus might also be in order if the rest of the hive mind is aware of the effect.

If the hivemind were presented with the ability to manipulate the minds of its members, your solution would be fairly ideal. If decision making authority itself were run by the hive mind (or delegated to a single member there of like the queen), then you're essentially dealing with one will: smack on a huge bonus to will save and treat it as a single entity for resolving relevant effects (the presence of Myrmarchs seems to indicate that that's not the case for Formians).

quiet1mi
2009-10-14, 03:32 AM
In my case, it was a raiding party with a few taskmasters and a dozen warriors...

One taskmaster and two warriors made their saves... the others did not...

Burley
2009-10-14, 07:09 AM
I would pondit that when you enchant a hiveminded creature, that single creature is severed from the hiveminds link, at least for the duration of the spell. Their minds have been magically obscured.
Like an amputation, if there is a problem with appendage A, the system will cut the link to appendage A to keep the problem from spreading. Perhaps the Hivemind will drop any compromised specimens.
This may shut down a caster permanently, because his casting faculties were tied to the hive. But, a simple hive worker could go into a berserker frenzy, destroying everything around it.

This is a tactic I would love to see in play, actually. On both the DM and PC side. An amoral hivemind, with a brutally tactical queen, severing links in losing battles to take down as many as possible before endgame. Or, perhaps, the link is severed just before death, to protect the hive-linked innocents from experiencing such a demoralizing feeling as death.

Fishy
2009-10-14, 12:12 PM
Formians aren't [Mindless]. When they're more that 50 miles from their queen, they lose their Hive Mind, but they don't fall over dead. They even keep all of their mental ability scores. Formians are psychologically used to a constant stream of voices that tell them what to do, but they're physiologically capable of independent thought.

I think you just handle it like 'normal', except that they can communicate with each other instantly and across a 50 mile radius. If one Formian makes a save to disbelieve an illusion, he can grant the others a reroll with a +4 bonus, immediately. If one Formian falls under an enchantment effect, any Formian willing to spend 1 minute making a Sense Motive check against him can try and detect it.

I'm not sure about the 'amputation' effect- When your eyes get overstimulated by a quick flash of light, they don't fall out of your head. I'm imagining it more like when your hand or your foot 'falls asleep': one part of your nervous system is shut out, and you can't control your muscles or feel sensations, but you can kind of flop it around a little.

The thing that's awesome to watch is two Hive Queens going to war.

Burley
2009-10-14, 12:31 PM
Oh. I wasn't aware Formians functioned independantly from the hivemind.

Man... I like my ideas. :smallfrown:



:smalltongue:

quiet1mi
2009-10-16, 12:35 AM
So the Formians get a static +4 to illusions if one makes their save?

What about enchantments? Will they just cut them off as their brain misfires and babbles on about nothing?