PDA

View Full Version : Divine Metamagic Rods [D&D 3.5]



The White Knight
2009-10-14, 11:42 AM
I'm playing a melee-oriented Cleric in a party that is lacking somewhat in magical oomph (we have a full-caster Cleric/Sacred Exorcist, but he tends to make poor spell selections and doesn't take suggestions well). I'm a little feat starved in the magic department and I'm already behind by 2 caster levels (Prestige Paladin 3 and Ordained Champion 3), so I'm looking for a way to up my game a little. It'd be great to throw around some chained spells like Delay Death, Greater Magic Weapon, etc. without breaking the bank or waiting for another 6 levels. Feat retraining is not an option.

In your opinion, what sort of price would you put on a rod that could apply a particular metamagic feat to a spell 3 times/day but required the expenditure of the requisite number of turning attempts (per the Divine Metamagic feat) rather than paying for the level increase for you? Clearly such an item would be cheaper than the vanilla version of the same metamagic rod, but by how much? And do the categories (lesser, normal, greater) make any sense when you're partially paying for the level increase yourself?

Feel free to offer any suggestions to help me with my situation in other ways too. Just bear in mind that I'm not looking for obscene personal power, as I'm already a bit of a juggernaut and don't want to overshadow anyone; I'm mostly just looking for some ways to hulk out the rest of the party without straying too far from what I do best. Or better yet, something I physically hand off to my fellow Cleric and see some noticeable return from (hence the rod idea).

PinkysBrain
2009-10-14, 11:52 AM
I think in AEG they said a bonus feat should cost 10K.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-14, 11:57 AM
It actually wouldn't be cheaper, oddly enough.

A cursed metamagic rod with the additional requirement of expending turn attempts to function?

It's a great item, but it's priced at the metamagic rod cost. If given in treasure, I'd likely personally knock 20% off the value of the item.

Random832
2009-10-14, 12:31 PM
It actually wouldn't be cheaper, oddly enough.
...
It's a great item, but it's priced at the metamagic rod cost.

Says who? You say "oddly enough" like this isn't something you just decided just now. Is there some pricing table (or an actual item like this in some book) that leads you to this conclusion?

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-14, 12:43 PM
Says who? You say "oddly enough" like this isn't something you just decided just now. Is there some pricing table (or an actual item like this in some book) that leads you to this conclusion?

Yes, there is (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#requirement).

The way to make this item in 3.5 would be to take the Metamagic Rod you wish.

Then make it cursed, with a requirement: Must expend X turn attempts each time it is activated.

Curses don't alter the cost of an item.

Count Dravda
2009-10-14, 12:52 PM
It's not really a curse, though. However, I agree with what you said about knocking off 20%. Sounds reasonable.

-Count Dravda

Myrmex
2009-10-14, 12:55 PM
Yes, there is (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#requirement).

The way to make this item in 3.5 would be to take the Metamagic Rod you wish.

Then make it cursed, with a requirement: Must expend X turn attempts each time it is activated.

Curses don't alter the cost of an item.

That's why you don't use the curse mechanics, you use the special requirement mechanics:


Other Considerations

Once you have a final cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:

Item Requires Skill to Use

Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.

Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use

Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the cost by 30%.

Stegyre
2009-10-14, 03:16 PM
It's not really a curse, though. However, I agree with what you said about knocking off 20%. Sounds reasonable.

-Count Dravda
Actually, if you review the SRD link he provided, in D&D terms, it is a "curse": expending turn attempts would be a form of requirement.

The SRD uses a very broad definition of "cursed": even the class or alignment restrictions (mentioned in Myrmex's post) qualify as "curse"-type requirements.

ericgrau
2009-10-14, 03:36 PM
I'd set a gp value on turn attempts based on nightsticks. Subtract the cost of the turn attempts required to activate the MM rod 3 times from the normal price of the MM rod and you're good to go.

Unless you think nightsticks are under-priced, they are broken even w/o DMM persist, etc. Then adjust as you see fit.

jiriku
2009-10-14, 04:09 PM
I think in AEG they said a bonus feat should cost 10K.

Essentially what this item does is exactly the same as the DMM feat in every way, right? Then Pinky's correct. 10 grand and you have a free feat. Of course, if you make a rod of, say, DMM: Quicken, you still need a Quicken spell feat to make use of the rod. If the rod ALSO provides the metamagic feat for you, then it's essentially providing two feats, and I'd say you're looking at 25k - 10k for each feat and +50% on one of those for stacking two effects on one item.

All this stuff about curses and requirements overlooks something significant here: unlike a metamagic rod, the rod is not enhancing spells for you, so the pricing structure for metamagic rods is not relevant. Instead, your item is providing the DMM feat for you, so the pricing structure of other items that provide feats is relevant instead.

BobVosh
2009-10-14, 04:17 PM
That's why you don't use the curse mechanics, you use the special requirement mechanics:

I think this is the first nonmunchkin use of this magic item creation rule that I have ever seen.

The White Knight
2009-10-14, 07:25 PM
Essentially what this item does is exactly the same as the DMM feat in every way, right?

Almost every way. Still has the 3/day limitation of an ordinary MM rod. But I'd be willing to ignore all that and pay 25k gp to go straight to the full benefits of a given DMM feat. Does anyone have a page reference on the 10k gp suggested cost for a feat in A&EG?