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weenie
2009-10-15, 06:34 AM
So, me and a few friend are playing a mystery campaign, and have started running into LOTS of incorporeal beings. Currently we have 2 lvl8 wizards(one of them being me) and a cleric5/death delver3 in our group, and we're stranded on a far away continent, not really prepared for what we're running into. The only way for the two wizards to learn spells so far is the free spells we get when we level up, and the game is core-only(with the exception of the death delver PrC).

So far we have been destroying the creatures(not sure what they are, a few knowledge(religion) checks have only told us that they are undead) with magic missiles and fireballs, but there are LOTS of this things around and we feel kinda helpless. They can also hide underground when they want to flee, but at least they don't seem able to fly. Oh, and there's a thick fog everywhere we go, that reduces mobility to 60ft, so we have yet another problem on our hands! Yay!

But anyway, what could the three of us do to get an advantage over these suckers? Is there a in-core way of making things like evard's black tentacles work against them? Are there any other viable battlefield control options left to us? Can we do anything but blasting?

cru121
2009-10-15, 07:45 AM
sor/wiz
disrupt undead
mage armor (+4 armor)
shield (+4 shield)
protection from evil (+2 defl)
explosive runes (scratch "boom!" on a rock, cast the spell, throw rock at foe)
rope trick
fly

cleric
hide from undead (non-intelligent don't get a save at all)
turn undead
cure xx wounds

Eloel
2009-10-15, 07:50 AM
1- Scribe a bunch of Explosive Runes on a single scroll.
2- Make it a 'ball' of paper.
3- Hand it to your fighter
4- Ready an action to Erase it with a lowered CL (you can cast at any CL you can use) with Arcane Mastery when it's at the incorpo thing's square. You auto-fail it with take-10.
5- Make the fighter throw it
6- ???
7- Boom!

Krrth
2009-10-15, 08:13 AM
So, me and a few friend are playing a mystery campaign, and have started running into LOTS of incorporeal beings. Currently we have 2 lvl8 wizards(one of them being me) and a cleric5/death delver3 in our group, and we're stranded on a far away continent, not really prepared for what we're running into. The only way for the two wizards to learn spells so far is the free spells we get when we level up, and the game is core-only(with the exception of the death delver PrC).

So far we have been destroying the creatures(not sure what they are, a few knowledge(religion) checks have only told us that they are undead) with magic missiles and fireballs, but there are LOTS of this things around and we feel kinda helpless. They can also hide underground when they want to flee, but at least they don't seem able to fly. Oh, and there's a thick fog everywhere we go, that reduces mobility to 60ft, so we have yet another problem on our hands! Yay!

But anyway, what could the three of us do to get an advantage over these suckers? Is there a in-core way of making things like evard's black tentacles work against them? Are there any other viable battlefield control options left to us? Can we do anything but blasting?

Ok, there aren't a lot of things you can do in core. Anything that's not magical and a force effect is going to be subject to the 50% miss chance. Since you've got no fighter classes, ghost touch weapons aren't going to be all that useful.

See if you can get your DM to allow some non-core items. Specifically, Transdimensional spell. It's a metamagic feat that allows your spells to affect incorporeal creatures.

Other than that, you're too low a level to cast wall of Force.

Bagelz
2009-10-15, 08:35 AM
yup force effects, put magic missle in all of your lvl 1 and 2 slots.
the cleric, touch attacks can be dangerous, as ghosts and wights tend to have drain attacks, but cure spells hurt undead. Turn undead.
detect undead, protection from evil, lesser restoration, magic circle, the standard cleric buffs to the rest of the party.

Another_Poet
2009-10-15, 10:07 AM
Have the spell Magic Weapon loaded up so you can enchant weapons for a 50% hit chance.

Also, it isn't core, but there is an item in Dungeonscape so nifty your DM might just allow it in. Ghostwall Shellac is a liquid you paint onto walls to prevent incorporeal beings from passing through. See if your DM would let your party arcanist invent such a thing, then pain the floor, walls & ceiling of a room for a safe place to sleep at night.

Of course, the effect wears off after a while- 12 or 24 hours as I recall.

ap

Assassin89
2009-10-15, 10:16 AM
Did someone forget spiritual weapon? Not only is it a force effect, it allow the cleric to stay at a distance, which could help avoid the drain effects.

weenie
2009-10-15, 11:33 AM
Have the spell Magic Weapon loaded up so you can enchant weapons for a 50% hit chance.

Also, it isn't core, but there is an item in Dungeonscape so nifty your DM might just allow it in. Ghostwall Shellac is a liquid you paint onto walls to prevent incorporeal beings from passing through. See if your DM would let your party arcanist invent such a thing, then pain the floor, walls & ceiling of a room for a safe place to sleep at night.

Of course, the effect wears off after a while- 12 or 24 hours as I recall.

ap

Well, the thing is, that 6 is the smallest number of these creatures that we have encountered at a single time so far. So even with magic weapon we would be getting slaughtered. Sleeping isn't a problem though, since my wizard prepares an extended rope trick every morning. That liquid would be good for stopping them from escaping underground while we bombard them though.

And I will definitely prepare an Explosive Runes bomb in the future! :)

EDIT:
Ok, here's my updated tactic for fighting these things:
-when we encounter them i cast haste and we flee - from experience they will come chasing after us
-when we put enough distance between us and them we buff up and both wizards cast wall of fire, it won't kill them all, but it should soften them up quite a bit. wall of fire does double damage against undead
-we fight those that come through the walls of fire with spiritual weapons, magic missiles and the like
-if things turn ugly we fly away and I drop down a rock covered in explosive runes
-I detonate said rock with a a dispel magic from a safe distance

Are there any crucial flaws that I missed?

Krrth
2009-10-15, 01:16 PM
Well, the thing is, that 6 is the smallest number of these creatures that we have encountered at a single time so far. So even with magic weapon we would be getting slaughtered. Sleeping isn't a problem though, since my wizard prepares an extended rope trick every morning. That liquid would be good for stopping them from escaping underground while we bombard them though.

And I will definitely prepare an Explosive Runes bomb in the future! :)

EDIT:
Ok, here's my updated tactic for fighting these things:
-when we encounter them i cast haste and we flee - from experience they will come chasing after us
-when we put enough distance between us and them we buff up and both wizards cast wall of fire, it won't kill them all, but it should soften them up quite a bit. wall of fire does double damage against undead
-we fight those that come through the walls of fire with spiritual weapons, magic missiles and the like
-if things turn ugly we fly away and I drop down a rock covered in explosive runes
-I detonate said rock with a a dispel magic from a safe distance

Are there any crucial flaws that I missed?

...Yes. They can ignore your wall of fire at least 50% of the time just by being incorporeal. They can also just go under it.

Dispelling your own explosive runes deliberately may be RAW, but it's not RAI. Your GM may not allow it.

tyckspoon
2009-10-15, 01:21 PM
...Yes. They can ignore your wall of fire at least 50% of the time just by being incorporeal. They can also just go under it.

Dispelling your own explosive runes deliberately may be RAW, but it's not RAI. Your GM may not allow it.

It's not a guaranteed tactic anyway. You can't choose to deliberately fail your Dispel check; the best you can do is cast Dispel at the lowest CL you can and try to roll poorly (alternately, get that one feat that lets you take 10 on Dispels and guarantee failure since the DC for a dispel check starts at 11.)

weenie
2009-10-15, 01:26 PM
...Yes. They can ignore your wall of fire at least 50% of the time just by being incorporeal. They can also just go under it.

Dispelling your own explosive runes deliberately may be RAW, but it's not RAI. Your GM may not allow it.

He will. He's very happy when we figure out a way to make fun combinations with spells. And I'm not even sure why that wouldn't be RAI.

Yeah, the 50% ignoring of our walls will hurt and I'm aware of it, but I was hoping they would on average be damaged by at least one of them, so when they come through killing them becomes easier.. And I think they're mindless enough to try and pass through the flames, but if they go underground instead we'll simply flee.

Krrth
2009-10-15, 01:28 PM
He will. He's very happy when we figure out a way to make fun combinations with spells. And I'm not even sure why that wouldn't be RAI.

Yeah, the 50% ignoring of our walls will hurt and I'm aware of it, but I was hoping they would on average be damaged by at least one of them, so when they come through killing them becomes easier.. And I think they're mindless enough to try and pass through the flames, but if they go underground instead we'll simply flee.

It's not RAI because you can remove your own runes at will with no chance of triggering. Explosive runes was originally designed to be a trap, not an offensive weapon.

weenie
2009-10-15, 01:28 PM
It's not a guaranteed tactic anyway. You can't choose to deliberately fail your Dispel check; the best you can do is cast Dispel at the lowest CL you can and try to roll poorly (alternately, get that one feat that lets you take 10 on Dispels and guarantee failure since the DC for a dispel check starts at 11.)

Oh. I was under the impression, that you could always fail a dispel check if you wanted to..

Curmudgeon
2009-10-15, 02:33 PM
Oh. I was under the impression, that you could always fail a dispel check if you wanted to..
Wrong direction.
You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-15, 03:04 PM
Why is Hide from Undead an inadequate tactic?

weenie
2009-10-15, 04:52 PM
Why is Hide from Undead an inadequate tactic?

Because we're pretty shamelessly trying to acquire some XP :smalltongue:

More seriously though, Hide from Undead will be heavily relied upon, but I really want to find a way to fight these things for when the cleric runs out of spell slots. And I get the feeling that reducing their number will also help us further on in the campaign.