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BobVosh
2009-10-15, 05:14 PM
I've been thinking about this item for a bit. I got a few questions. Obviously these question are more roleplay. Since your character doesn't actually do any of these things normally anyway.

1. Does this mean you can't gain or lose weight no matter how much you exercise with this item?

2. I guessing you can gain muscle. Could you lose it?

3. Why does this item bother me when I brush by so many other ones.

Kurald Galain
2009-10-15, 05:27 PM
Please... think of the catgirls...!

Paulus
2009-10-15, 05:27 PM
I've been thinking about this item for a bit. I got a few questions. Obviously these question are more roleplay. Since your character doesn't actually do any of these things normally anyway.

1. Does this mean you can't gain or lose weight no matter how much you exercise with this item?

2. I guessing you can gain muscle. Could you lose it?

3. Why does this item bother me when I brush by so many other ones.

Wearing the ring does not prevent your body from growing muscle, it in fact encourages it because it provides all the nourishment for your needs. Therefore, exercising would mean you gain muscle normally. Loosing weight is another matter, and if by weight you mean fat, then I would say no. You can not loose fat wearing this ring because it provides all the nourishment you need, therefore you body would never need to burn excess calories etc. As for muscle? Again, no, since your body would not need to consume the proteins etc form your own body to fuel it etc. HOWEVER, if you ate food while wearing the ring, you COULD gain weight as this would count as excess. Since your body is getting what it needs and more.

So. In terms of excess your body works normally, in terms of loss, the ring covers all- meaning no real loss.

Now what will really bake your noodle, is how it reacts to sickness.

Asbestos
2009-10-15, 05:38 PM
Wearing the ring does not prevent your body from growing muscle, it in fact encourages it because it provides all the nourishment for your needs. Therefore, exercising would mean you gain muscle normally. Loosing weight is another matter, and if by weight you mean fat, then I would say no. You can not loose fat wearing this ring because it provides all the nourishment you need, therefore you body would never need to burn excess calories etc. As for muscle? Again, no, since your body would not need to consume the proteins etc form your own body to fuel it etc. HOWEVER, if you ate food while wearing the ring, you COULD gain weight as this would count as excess. Since your body is getting what it needs and more.

So. In terms of excess your body works normally, in terms of loss, the ring covers all- meaning no real loss.

Now what will really bake your noodle, is how it reacts to sickness.
Keeping muscles up is more than just getting all your nutrients. If you don't work out, but consume all the same calories as normal, your muscles are going to atrophy some. I'd say that the character couldn't lose fat, but could lose muscle mass.

Cieyrin
2009-10-15, 05:51 PM
This is a little off-topic but related: Does a Ring of Sustenance provide the same benefits as a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, plus decreasing sleep need to 2 hours per night?

Paulus
2009-10-15, 05:52 PM
Keeping muscles up is more than just getting all your nutrients. If you don't work out, but consume all the same calories as normal, your muscles are going to atrophy some. I'd say that the character couldn't lose fat, but could lose muscle mass.

If we are talking atrophy then we are talking long periods, in which case deterioration could lead to loosing cells from any portion of the body due to age alone. But if this is the case, I suppose I would agree to excessive muscle mass being lost, however with the ring it wouldn't be enough to be debilitating. So in that context yes, you could indeed loose muscle mass from very long periods of inactivity due to your bodies natural aging. But if you only need to sleep two hours... I heavily doubt there is something you would be doing otherwise to cause such atrophy.

Siosilvar
2009-10-15, 05:54 PM
This is a little off-topic but related: Does a Ring of Sustenance provide the same benefits as a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, plus decreasing sleep need to 2 hours per night?

Yes.

And it's not underpriced compared to the ioun stone if you count the decreased sleep as costing 1000 gp.

paddyfool
2009-10-15, 06:23 PM
Heh. So the logic of this thread is that, with the ring continuously on:

- Muscle mass can go down or up (responds to body's need). If down, it converts to fat; if up, it's fueled from the ring.
- Bone mass can likewise go down or up (also atrophies when you're not using it, although slower than muscle)
- But fat... can only go up, because your full calorific need is always being taken care of, no matter how much you exert yourself?

It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

Paulus
2009-10-15, 06:35 PM
Heh. So the logic of this thread is that, with the ring continuously on:

- Muscle mass can go down or up (responds to body's need). If down, it converts to fat; if up, it's fueled from the ring.
- Bone mass can likewise go down or up (also atrophies when you're not using it, although slower than muscle)
- But fat... can only go up, because your full calorific need is always being taken care of, no matter how much you exert yourself?

It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

Actually if the muscle mass went down it'd become waste, not fat. If at all. Unless you don't do anything at all, then your body naturally atrophys into a extremely thin and pasty body, gaunt beyond recognition from your original race... in other words you become a gollum.

hey wait a second... gollum... one ring... precious... OMG the one ring was a ring of sustenance!

ONE RING TO FEED THEM ALL!

BobVosh
2009-10-15, 09:11 PM
or you can become like a character from Fable2 who went through healing potions and then eat pies. Which, for some reason, can only be counteracted with lots of celery.

Basically all the opinions here agree with mine.

jiriku
2009-10-15, 09:18 PM
ONE RING TO FEED THEM ALL!

...and in the pantry find them.

Shalist
2009-10-15, 11:10 PM
New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

Unlike its counterpart, this ring 'feeds' you nothing but Cheetos, resulting in any number of problems over time, not the least of which include obesity and a general lack of energy/depression.

Every week this ring is worn, the wearer must make a DC 14 fortitude save or take one point of constitution damage. Each successive week of continuous use the save DC increases by one, and for every point of constitution lost below 10, the wearer develops a new health problem, determined by rolling on a table I'd write up if I were real bored.

edit: Oh yeah, and with this ring, you need to sleep 12 hours a day, and will still be fatigued, unless you drink lots of Mountain Dew.

taltamir
2009-10-16, 12:43 AM
New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

Unlike its counterpart, this ring 'feeds' you nothing but Cheetos, resulting in any number of problems over time, not the least of which include obesity and a general lack of energy/depression.

Every week this ring is worn, the wearer must make a DC 14 fortitude save or take one point of constitution damage. Each successive week of continuous use the save DC increases by one, and for every point of constitution lost below 10, the wearer develops a new health problem, determined by rolling on a table I'd write up if I were real bored.

edit: Oh yeah, and with this ring, you need to sleep 12 hours a day, and will still be fatigued, unless you drink lots of Mountain Dew.

this is the coolest cursed item i have seen in a while...

Grumman
2009-10-16, 01:20 AM
I'd rule that someone wearing a ring of sustenance would always tend towards a healthy weight, unless they are eating more than would be healthy without the ring. We know that its effects vary depending on how much you exert yourself, I see no reason why it couldn't also vary depending on how much you eat.

Blacky the Blackball
2009-10-16, 01:24 AM
The ring gives you the sustenance you need.

If you're fat you need less sustenance.

Therefore it gives you less sustenance.

Therefore you go back down to a healthy weight.

Flayerman
2009-10-16, 01:31 AM
Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

Shalist
2009-10-16, 03:21 AM
Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

I'd wondered that about vampires, or perhaps use one as part of a Tarrasque domestication project. If nothing else, I'm sure a rust eater could get at least a snack out of it.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-16, 08:22 AM
New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

I first read "Gamer's" as a name, pronounced sort of like Gammer... :P

Eldan
2009-10-16, 08:26 AM
I'd wondered that about vampires, or perhaps use one as part of a Tarrasque domestication project. If nothing else, I'm sure a rust eater could get at least a snack out of it.

Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

Eldariel
2009-10-16, 08:28 AM
Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

Tarrasque the Sleeping Beauty? But who will be his Prince Charming? Probably my next BBEG?

Sliver
2009-10-16, 08:42 AM
Tarrasque the Sleeping Beauty? But who will be his Prince Charming? Probably my next BBEG?

He wont have to be charming anyway, or kiss the Tarrasque, just remove the ring and wait.. How long it takes after the ring being removed 'till the Tarrasque becoming hungry?

JeenLeen
2009-10-16, 08:53 AM
On the overeat/lose weight/gain weight: I would think that, if you are eating, the ring supplies only the nutrients you need beyond what you normally consume. Since it can feed a huge dragon as easily as a small halfling, I imagine it 'scans' the lifeform wearing it or senses the need in its wearer, and supplies as necessary.


Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

At least in Lords of Madness, it is stated that Mind Flayers eat brains because they need the psychic energy. (Most creatures 'create' enough psychic energy for their existence to subsist on; Mind Flayers do not create any, it seems.)

I have heard many argue that since it is not physical sustenance or nutrients that are needed, but rather a metaphysical 'food', the ring does not supply it. I've heard others say the wording of the ring is vague, and thus could supply it.
I would assume vampires' need for blood is also magical/metaphysical, and thus would work the same. If you read Libris Mortis, it goes into how some undead need blood or living flesh due to physical necessity and others due to psychological necessity. I could see one saying the ring works for the former, but I would think it would not for the latter.

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 08:56 AM
It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

Here's the thing: it gives you the sustenance you NEED. If you eat something, even at a social function, your Caloric NEED is lessened. Therefore, merely eating something while wearing the ring will NOT result in Obesity.

Eating an entire three-course meal three times a day and topping it off with an entire cheesecake and a Diet Coke, that's another story.

Keshay
2009-10-16, 09:54 AM
I've always thought of Rings of Sustenance as cursed items, or at least items used only by the most desperate of people.

The item description goes out of its way to say the ring provides "Life-Sustaining Nourishment", which to my interpretation means that it'll give you just enough to keep you alive. Nothing about maintaining muscle/fat mass. Nothing about providing enough nourishment to quell hunger. After all, you can easily be provided enough nourishment to "sustain life" while still remaining hungry, anyone who's been limited to IV fluids/nutrients only can tell you that.

On top of that, you're "refreshed" after only 2 hours of sleep, that's 6 more hours in a day to enjoy the hunger not being satisfied by the ring. I personally have no trouble falling asleep when not tired, but not everyone is so lucky.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but my two greatest joys in life are, in order: Sleep and a Good meal. This ring of horrors does its best to take away two of the most basic comforts a preson can experience in life.

Rings of Sustenance are evil, plain and simple. When I've DMed I've had characters exclusively using a Ring of Sustenance waste away to a starved/depraved state.

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 09:59 AM
Rings of Sustenance are evil, plain and simple. When I've DMed I've had characters exclusively using a Ring of Sustenance waste away to a starved/depraved state.

Well within your right as a DM, certainly, except, it's specifically NOT a cursed item by RAW.
You know why? Because it's in the same book as the cursed items, but it has a different heading: "Wonderous Items."

If My DM did something like this(without telling those of us who purchased said ring), I'd walk out on the game.

This is ****ty behavior from the DM if he's going to all of a sudden tell you: "oh, yeah, you're very weak now. You look like Gollum."

Asheram
2009-10-16, 10:01 AM
Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

Oooh. then all you need is to pry the mouth open, put on a ring of acid resistance, and lead a team of small dwarves down his throat to harvest the diamonds that grow in his belly

Keshay
2009-10-16, 10:24 AM
Well within your right as a DM, certainly, except, it's specifically NOT a cursed item by RAW.
You know why? Because it's in the same book as the cursed items, but it has a different heading: "Wonderous Items."

If My DM did something like this(without telling those of us who purchased said ring), I'd walk out on the game.

This is ****ty behavior from the DM if he's going to all of a sudden tell you: "oh, yeah, you're very weak now. You look like Gollum."

Settle down son, after all you know what making assumptions does, and you're doing it pretty well.

The keen observer will note that it was very clearly stated that "I thought of them as cursed items", I'm fully aware that they are not. And yeah, its listed under the "Rings" section, not Wondrous Items. At least try to get your information right if you're going to try and make a foolishly condescending point.

You also erroneously assume that the wasting away deal was sprung upon players, or instatntly had the effect described. This indicatres a gross ignorance of what the word "wasting" means. This effect was made known to players when they first found such a ring. Additionally, such a process would take a good deal of time, on the scale of months, and easily can be remedied by eating modestly... This was a suprise to no one since, amazingly, everyone else had a similar viewpoint as to the nature of the ring.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-16, 10:42 AM
Though the response was more hostile than I would have thought advisable, the comment about rings was funny. :smallbiggrin: Still, your original post was quite hyperbolic in describing the evil "ring of horrors"; and strikes me as a bizarre reaction.

Lysander
2009-10-16, 11:26 AM
I just assume the ring provides the equivalent of three healthy meals a day. If you're eating a lot of junk food than yeah, switching to the ring might make you thinner because you're not shoveling lard in your mouth anymore the same way switching to a healthier diet can reduce your waistline even without exercise. You aren't going to get fit without exercise though.

MickJay
2009-10-16, 12:07 PM
It's interesting how such a seemingly minor magic item must be complex: it needs to monitor the user's metabolism, calculate their caloric needs, check the levels of proteins, carbohydrates, fats and all the microelements, then somehow it needs to synthesize and inject (infuse? teleport?) all the necessary nutrients into the body (directly to the bloodstream? into the stomach? everywhere, at cellular level?), and judging from the way it's used by many adventurers, it's controlling wearer's neural system to prevent the feeling of hunger.

Like some people noticed earlier, I'd also assume that the wearer, if he was either too fat or too emaciated, would gradually reach optimal weight, as obese people don't really *need* the excess fat if they have the ring, while those who are too thin usually are better off after gaining a little weight.

JeenLeen
2009-10-16, 12:28 PM
Like some people noticed earlier, I'd also assume that the wearer, if he was either too fat or too emaciated, would gradually reach optimal weight, as obese people don't really *need* the excess fat if they have the ring, while those who are too thin usually are better off after gaining a little weight.

Well, the ring could look at your body as is and give you the nutrients, etc., you need to stay in your current form. Thus, if overweight, you stay overweight.

It depends on how the magic works, I would think. Does it look at the person as they currently are and, on that, base what is needed to sustain that form as is. Or does it look at what they are and detect their ideal form (a healthy human, for example) and limit sustenance since they already have enough stored fat.
If the latter, do the people feel hungry even if their body is eating its own fat reserves? I can see that feeling being supressed by the magic.

For example, there might be a type of monster that is abnormally fat and all members of it race suffer the ill effects of being overweight (or a human with the deformity feat for being overweight.) It's not healthy; but does the ring change it?

Keshay
2009-10-16, 01:28 PM
Still, your original post was quite hyperbolic in describing the evil "ring of horrors"; and strikes me as a bizarre reaction.

Yes, and hence even the most feeble humor/hyperbole/sarcasm meter should have at least twitched. I had not thought it was all that terribly ambigous that my description of the ring was meant to be partially tongue-in-cheek, and not to be taken all that terribly seriously. Certainly not to the point where a knee-jerk reaction to call bad DMing, pouting like a child, taking your ball and leaving would be an appropriate reaction to an excruciatingly minor change in a magic item's function.

Something that takes away or diminishes two of the greatest simple pleasures in life? Seems a little evil to me despite its utilitarian uses. I'd question the sanity of someone who used one purposefully when not in dire straits, with food and safe shelter readily available.

More importantly though, if you were to just use the ring, and nothing else, would you have to eliminate waste? If you were to wear such a ring for months or years, would your digestive system and kidneys atrophy? Would you need to wean yourself back onto real food like folks in prisoner camps had to have done?

Being a sh**ty DM, I've never been a fan of consequence-free magic, so I'd say yes to the above. If that were to cause a munchkin to storm out of my game, all the better.

Nai_Calus
2009-10-16, 01:39 PM
Sorry, my sarcasm meter didn't go off either.

Neither sleep or food are pleasurable. They're annoying necessities. Some of it tastes good, sure, but all in all? I'd rather not have to screw with it.

Music is pleasurable. Spending time with friends is pleasurable. Creating something is pleasurable. Doing something well is pleasurable. Not basic dull necessities of life.

No, sorry, RoS isn't 'evil', not remotely. And no, it doesn't turn you into gollum.

I'd leave your game too, since we obviously have completely incompatible priorities, and that would carry over into my character's RPing vs your DMed world. It has nothing to do with being a 'munchkin', but thanks for the preemptive insult.

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 01:50 PM
Something that takes away or diminishes two of the greatest simple pleasures in life? Seems a little evil to me despite its utilitarian uses. I'd question the sanity of someone who used one purposefully when not in dire straits, with food and safe shelter readily available.

Sleep is not pleasure, it's oblivion. (Sleeping with, on the other hand...).

I would rather not waste 8 hours a day (OK, 6-7 in my case.) unconcious. Also: what about the Urban Soul PrC from RoDestiny? It's second level feature completely negates the need for food and sleep while in a city. Is it inherently evil as well?

Seriously, you're coming off as a Randian objectivist who is trying to force his(her?) own views of pleasure on others. Sleep is a waste, plain and simple, in my eyes.

Also, I'm not saying you're a ****ty DM. I'm saying that you're acting like a DM of mine who I found to be ****ty at it.

You're coming accross as the kind of DM who would force his players to draw from the Deck of Many Things at the start of his campaign, three card minimum, and then punish anyone who ended up with a favorable result, like say, drawing the Sun (Massive XP boost and a minor wondrous item, like the Ring of Sustanance or Necklace of Adaptation.) and have the necklace give a film of Chlorine Gas instead of air because your player was lucky. Or have him age incredibly quickly because he also had a "get out of one bad situation once" card left over.

Now: if the ring was loot and it was a cursed Ring of Ethopian Sustenance(that identifies as a basic Ring of Sustenance), then your proposal of the Ring of Doom(tm) is reasonable.
BUT, and here is the problem: If these rings are bought, either with starting wealth or with earned wealth, and the players are NOT told of these limitations which apply to every RoS in your world/universe, and they only find out later, well after the monetary outlay, then I would walk out on this game and only return when it stops being DM v Players.

Keshay
2009-10-16, 03:12 PM
Wow, it actually never occurred to me that there were people who didn't like food or sleep.

I suppose that a good deal of the pleasure derived from sleep is the being refreshed part upon waking (and yes, it is much nicer to fall asleep sharing a bed, regardless of whether other sweaty things going on), but heck, I like a good sleep after a stressful day at work. I like dreams, they're highly entertaining. I like that for those 5-6 hours a night I get to, and am expected to do nothing but rest. I suppose if one had a life where there were no responsibilites in the waking world that sleep may seem like a waste of time, I can recall having an attitude liek that while in High School and University. Real life caught up with me however, and now: rest is fun.

As for food I suppose that yes, it could be seen as a tiresome habit simply to be endured. Fortunately I'm blessed with being a good cook, being married to a good cook, and coming from a family of good cooks (cliche as it sounds, my mother-in-laws cooking, however, is terrible). (This goes toward the "creating something" and "Doing somethign well" points.)

I like to think of food preparation as much of as a hobby as a necessity. Sure, I could serve my family a Powerbar, Bananna, Protein/Psyllium shake and a multivitamin at every meal and get thier basic nutrition needs out of the way. I, however, find it enjoyable to prepare an actual meal, experiment with ingredients and flavors, and get feedback from those I served. If one does not value this as a hobby, that is thier business, but don't try to tell me what I find fun or worthwhile.

Listening to music was mentioned as a pleasurable activity. I'll take the liberty of assuming that was meant to mean "Listening to good music" is pleasurable. "Good Music" is of course subjective, but I somehow doubt the poster would derive great pleasure from listening to Polka all day long. I fail to see how the readily apparent parallel can not be drawn between music listening and dining. One you do with sound, the other with taste. Another regretable example of how fine dining has become a lost passtime in America.

Spending time with friends was also mentioned as pleasurable. I'll invite the poster to think back to his last visit with friends and family. I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask, "Did you eat together during that time?" Well how about that...

So, go ahead and take your magic ring of less sleep and no eating. Those happen to be things I enjoy doing with my family. The time spent preparing a meal for loved ones, appreciating the flavors of a new recipe, the time spent sharing stories around a table appreciating the meal that has been lovingly prepared because Grandma knows you like her meatloaf. Lying next to a warm body for just a little longer than you have to. I'm not certain what I'd fill the extra time with that I'd enjoy more.

Blackfang: I have zero clue as to how you've managed to come to that sort of conclusion regarding my DM style. Its apparent you have had bad experiences with DMs in the past, but try not to let that cloud your judgement against strangers based on little to no information. Rest assured I notify my players of any "changes" made to rules and items. You'll notice though, that no changes were made to the Ring of Sustenance beyond pure fluff. As I originally said, the description very clearly states it provided "Life-Sustaining Nourishment". This is opposed to the description of Create Food and Water in that that spell refers to the Food as "highly nourishing". The amount of nourishment necessary to maintain life will not maintain the body in peak/ideal condition. The ring is still very useful. You will survive long enough to get to wherever you need to go in order to recuperate. You may not be comfortable, fat and healthy, but you'll make it.

You chose to assume that there was some sort of mechanical penalty involved with the purely fluff-related interpretation I provided. This was an incorrect asumption. So understand, from my point of view you're going off on some sort of righteous indignation horse because I would have asked you to change your character's weight downward after surviving on nothing but the ring for the past three months while you were trapped in a caved-in dungeon (or whatever). Weight that would return by the next gaming session after you get a decent meal or two. So forgive me if it does not appear to be a rational reaction from my point of view.

I'm not a personal fan of mundane magic being "intelligent". If you wanted a ring that had the capability to "read" your body type and make well-informed decisions about how to bet react with nourishment, it would be a higher-level item than a 2500gp cost ring.

AtwasAwamps
2009-10-16, 03:29 PM
Conversations about magic rings are AWESOME.

Nai_Calus
2009-10-16, 03:46 PM
I suppose if one had a life where there were no responsibilites in the waking world that sleep may seem like a waste of time, I can recall having an attitude liek that while in High School and University. Real life caught up with me however, and now: rest is fun.


Holy ****, insulting much? Shocker of the year: I have a 'real life' too! And merciful Seldarine would I love to not have to utterly waste the eight hours a day minimum I have to spend on a useless task. I don't dream, I don't fall asleep easily when I *am* dead tired, and I wake up feeling like death warmed over. It's an obnoxious pain in the ass that takes away from time I could be putting towards things I actually enjoy, or towards *gasp* responsibilities.

Actually, I enjoyed sleeping when I was a lazy useless teenager, because it got me out of doing anything productive and useful like my homework. Now? Ugh, waste of valuable time.



As for food I suppose that yes, it could be seen as a tiresome habit simply to be endured. Fortunately I'm blessed with being a good cook, being married to a good cook, and coming from a family of good cooks (cliche as it sounds, my mother-in-laws cooking, however, is terrible).


I'm a decent cook... But I don't have the time, or the inclination most days. Maybe if I weren't wasting so damned much time asleep.



"Good Music" is of course subjective, but I somehow doubt the poster would derive great pleasure from listening to Polka all day long. I fail to see how the readily apparent parallel can not be drawn between music listening and dining. One you do with sound, the other with taste. Another regretable example of how fine dining has become a lost passtime in America.


What's wrong with polka? I have genres of music I like less than others, but I can't name a single genre that doesn't have at least several songs I like.

Truthfully, most 'fine dining' and 'gourmet' stuff I find disgusting. ;) I also have several minor food allergies, though.



Spending time with friends was also mentioned as pleasurable. I'll invite the poster to think back to his last visit with friends and family. I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask, "Did you eat together during that time?" Well how about that...


Nope, we didn't. I ate before I went, they ate before they went, and we didn't waste time we could have spent talking on eating.



So, go ahead and take your magic ring of less sleep and no eating. Those happen to be things I enjoy doing with my family. The time spent preparing a meal for loved ones, appreciating the flavors of a new recipe, the time spent sharing stories around a table appreciating the meal that has been lovingly prepared because Grandma knows you like her meatloaf. Lying next to a warm body for just a little longer than you have to. I'm not certain what I'd fill the extra time with that I'd enjoy more.


I'd fill it with talking, doing things together like playing games or collaborating on something, singing, etc. Or taking time for myself, for that matter, to just do stuff.

See, the thing we're* trying to get across to you here is that you're pretty much the only one insisting on your viewpoint, yet you adress us as if we are utterly and absolutely wrong, thus inviting us to argue because, no, we do not feel as you do and are frankly utterly befuddled by it.

I'm done with this, though, because each post you make gets more and more insulting to everyone talking to you.

*By 'we' I mean the people who have posted specifically to disagree with you, not everyone in the thread period.

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 04:07 PM
Wow, it actually never occurred to me that there were people who didn't like food or sleep.

I suppose that a good deal of the pleasure derived from sleep is the being refreshed part upon waking (and yes, it is much nicer to fall asleep sharing a bed, regardless of whether other sweaty things going on), but heck, I like a good sleep after a stressful day at work. I like dreams, they're highly entertaining. I like that for those 5-6 hours a night I get to, and am expected to do nothing but rest. I suppose if one had a life where there were no responsibilites in the waking world that sleep may seem like a waste of time, I can recall having an attitude liek that while in High School and University. Real life caught up with me however, and now: rest is fun. C.

...

So, go ahead and take your magic ring of less sleep and no eating. Those happen to be things I enjoy doing with my family. B.The time spent preparing a meal for loved ones, appreciating the flavors of a new recipe, the time spent sharing stories around a table appreciating the meal that has been lovingly prepared because Grandma knows you like her meatloaf. A. Lying next to a warm body for just a little longer than you have to. I'm not certain what I'd fill the extra time with that I'd enjoy more.

I never said I don't enjoy waking up feeling rested. However: I wake at 6:30 in order to get to work by 8:30. I come home at ~6-6:15. I am currently taking two courses for grad school. Homework alongside Dinner, Laundry, and various other tasks I must do around the house, as well as class one night until 9:30, don't leave much time for enough sleep. :smallmad:

A. There's no reason you can't still do this. (you'll notice I DID point this out as something fun. But, I'm single, and have been so for some time now. Not exactly a selling point for me. At the moment.)

B. Again, there's no reason you still can't do this. you can still eat and derive nourishment/pleasure from food. But sometimes there are days where I end up settling for ****ty food because I don't have the time/cash to stop at a restaurant that'd probably be better for me, while also tasting better than McFish.

No-one's saying you can't eat, No-one's saying you shouldn't eat.

I'm saying that there are times where eating GETS IN THE WAY OF LIFE.

Now, if I had a ring of Sustenance, would I stop eating alltogether? Heck no. I ENJOY my food. But now I can forgo food while I'm on a long roadtrip, while I'm studying for class, while I'm working, or while i'm in a hurry to get somewhere. I can choose to eat only when I have the time to properly enjoy food, like the Family Dinners that my mother cooks 2-6 nights per week, as opposed to the mediocre pizza I had for lunch today. (It was OK. kinda like Strawberry Beer.)

And I could save the money I didn't spend on food and use it on something more practical/fun, like savings towards my own place, or new clothes for work.

C. Rest is fun, sleep is not. Oblivion is neither fun nor unfun, it just is. And this lets you accomplish sleep in 1/4 the time.
No one's saying you have to be on-the-go active during those 6 extra hours. I'd probably spend most of it either Reading or playing my Playstation. (Or the occasional MASSIVE OT at work.)

B,I,U sentence: What. It's the responsiblities that I DO have that make me want this item in real life.

Also: The fact that you have no clue how I came to that conclusion only makes me more confident in my conclusions. :smallfrown: As does the Bold, Italicized, Underlined sentence lead me to the conclusion that you don't actually have a real life. (Kidding on that last sentence. :smallbiggrin:)

Paulus
2009-10-16, 04:17 PM
A ring which makes it so you don't have to eat or sleep much and can ADVENTURE more? FORGET THAT--- FOR NOW!!! WE MUST ARGUE OF!! SLEEP AND FOOOOOOD!!!!


*ding ding*

FIGHT!

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 04:19 PM
A ring which makes it so you don't have to eat or sleep much and can ADVENTURE more? FORGET THAT--- FOR NOW!!! WE MUST ARGUE OF!! SLEEP AND FOOOOOOD!!!!


*ding ding*

FIGHT!

I was wondering if I was the only one who found this arguement patently ridiculous.

Not that that's kept me out of it. I LIKE food, and I like feeling rested. Doesn't mean I always have time for worthwhile food or enough sleep.

Paulus
2009-10-16, 04:24 PM
I was wondering if I was the only one who found this arguement patently ridiculous.

Not that that's kept me out of it. I LIKE food, and I like feeling rested. Doesn't mean I always have time for worthwhile food or enough sleep.

I enjoy eating while sleeping or sleeping in food myself.

>:3

Blackfang108
2009-10-16, 04:28 PM
I enjoy eating while sleeping or sleeping in food myself.

>:3

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...

...

???

I'm trying to picture this in a way that doesn't end in suffocation/drowning.

...

I really can't.:smallbiggrin:

Paulus
2009-10-16, 04:32 PM
...

...

...

???

I'm trying to picture this in a way that doesn't end in suffocation/drowning.

...

I really can't.:smallbiggrin:

There is always room for jello, all the better if you must eat your way to freedom.

Also, buttery snacks and gravy boats. No reason.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-16, 04:35 PM
There is always room for jello, all the better if you must eat your way to freedom.

Also, buttery snacks and gravy boats. No reason.

Jello? Isn't that the lie gelatinous cubes use on humans so they can eat them?
Obligatory link: http://rustyandco.com/?p=22

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-16, 04:40 PM
I'm done with this, though, because each post you make gets more and more insulting to everyone talking to you.

That's probably because you're responding with similar insults. I can't really blame you (or the foodie) for it, but unless somebody backs off that behavior leads to a flame war.

Nai_Calus
2009-10-16, 05:11 PM
That's probably because you're responding with similar insults. I can't really blame you (or the foodie) for it, but unless somebody backs off that behavior leads to a flame war.

Which is precisely why I'm done with it, because otherwise, yes, this will never frakkin' end.

ChaosDefender24
2009-10-16, 05:23 PM
You had to bring up the frakkin' toasters in a food thread, didn't you?

BobVosh
2009-10-17, 04:26 AM
...

...

...

???

I'm trying to picture this in a way that doesn't end in suffocation/drowning.

...

I really can't.:smallbiggrin:

I would love to sleep in a giant french loaf. Just once at least. Probably be hard as heck when I wake up though.