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incubus5075
2009-10-16, 09:16 AM
Anyone know if they plan on releasing a Kender race for 4ed? It has always been a favorite race of mine and I feel that my group needs some humor thrown in to it. Any ideas on how I can alter the 4ed halfling to suit my kender ideas?

Kurald Galain
2009-10-16, 09:20 AM
I suppose they would show up in the DragonLance campaign guide.

2008 - Forgotten Realms
2009 - Eberron
2010 - Dark Sun
2011 - ???


(edit) if you want a homebrew Kender, I'd suggest taking a 4E halfling, and replacing its Second Chance encounter power with this:

Taunt (encounter power) minor action.
Close burst 5
Target: one enemy in burst.
Attack: (your choice of int, wis or cha) vs will
Hit: on his next turn, the first action the target must take is charge you. If he is too close to you to charge, he must make a basic melee attack against you instead. If he can do neither, he may act normally.


(edit edit) oh yeah, and make it (stat)+2 at paragon, (stat)+4 at epic; and throw in a heroic feat that also makes it do 1d6+stat psychic damage on a hit, 2d6 at paragon, 3d6 at epic; a paragon feat that makes it use two targets; and an epic feat that makes it affect all enemies within burst.

oxybe
2009-10-16, 09:24 AM
monster manual 2 i believe. i don't remember the exact book, but my buddy was playing one.

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-16, 09:29 AM
monster manual 2 i believe. i don't remember the exact book, but my buddy was playing one.

You are thinking of Kenku, the totally awesome Crow-people, rather than Kender, the plot-armoured halfling kleptomaniacs. :)

The J Pizzel
2009-10-16, 09:33 AM
You want a Kender in your game? Have you thought it through? Don't ge me wrong, Tass was great, but the spawns that have come out of that and onto the gaming tables have just been.....<shudders>

oxybe
2009-10-16, 09:42 AM
ah. my bad. i know my roommate was playing a small race that started with a "K" who was very much a kleptomaniac. didn't properly remember whether it was Kenku or Kender

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 09:56 AM
ABsolutely i want a kender! I use to play one when i first started playing. His name was Laven Deepwater (his favorite color was purple and he was born in Waterdeep) He was mechanically just an awesome thief but was mainly there for fun roleplaying and to get the other players into trouble. My DM loved him since if the players were having to easy of an time Laven would simple say 'oops' or 'i'm bored' and all hel would break lose. The other players found him hilarious and often risked their lives to save him. I took him all the way to lvl 20 and I want to bring him back for my new 4ed game.

Lost Demiurge
2009-10-16, 10:07 AM
You WANT Kender in 4E? Gah.

Well, then I suggest taking a basic halfling, and making a simple adjustment. This'll make things work perfectly.

Lose the halfling defensive power, whatever it's called. Replace with the following.

Power: You Had this Coming!
Frequency: Encounter, Reaction (Special. Activated at choice of other party members.)
Effect: Whenever your character's actions annoy at least one other player to the point of anger, that player may punch you. No, not his character hitting your character, that PLAYER may punch YOU.
Secondary Effect: The first player to deliver a punch to you during the activation of this power gains an action point for his character.
Tertiary Effect: A valuable lesson is delivered, and hopefully more care is taken in the future to avoid spoiling other people's fun.

Another_Poet
2009-10-16, 10:08 AM
I think you could easily homebrew a 4e kender. Start with halfling stats, but put a hammer next to the player at the gaming table. Every time somebody starts to actually focus on the game or accomplish something, the player grabs the hammer and wails on the table as hard as they can 20-30 times while yelling, "KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER!". Ta-daa, the full kender experience.

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 10:09 AM
Oh and here is just one example out of pure awesomness of Laven. We finally confront the BBEG lich who we have spent several sessions trying to find/kill. He is using winged boots to stay out of range of our melee guys and is flying over a chasm where a lava river flows. ( i know cliche but we were like 15) So i'm playing Laven and have done nothing but taunt the lich to try and get him closer and tripped up some skeletons to help out my friends so the lich is pretty much ignoring me. I decide what the heck i REALLY want those boots! Run and jump (roll a 20!) make the 15 ft jump and grab the lich by the waist. I then suceed to untie his boots and put them on before we make the 100 ft fall to lava. Quite happy i got some cool new boots! Plus flying kender= mass chaos and very hard to keep out of your place of business!

pasko77
2009-10-16, 10:11 AM
You WANT Kender in 4E? Gah.

Well, then I suggest taking a basic halfling, and making a simple adjustment. This'll make things work perfectly.

Lose the halfling defensive power, whatever it's called. Replace with the following.

Power: You Had this Coming!
Frequency: Encounter, Reaction (Special. Activated at choice of other party members.)
Effect: Whenever your character's actions annoy at least one other player to the point of anger, that player may punch you. No, not his character hitting your character, that PLAYER may punch YOU.
Secondary Effect: The first player to deliver a punch to you during the activation of this power gains an action point for his character.
Tertiary Effect: A valuable lesson is delivered, and hopefully more care is taken in the future to avoid spoiling other people's fun.

Lol, that's exactly how I would rule the kender.
The most hated race in the world.

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 10:29 AM
Man I had no idea everyone hated Kenders! I always found them fun, entertaining and added a little humor to the table. Why are they so hated? Besides stealing EVERYONE's things?

Kylarra
2009-10-16, 10:30 AM
Because kleptomaniac players are annoying, particularly when they can hide behind the fact "oh it's my race and not my fault ^____________^"

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 10:35 AM
I guess it depends on the group you play with and how up tight they are. My group simply checked their items ever morning to make sure they still had there stuff and laughed when Laven would steal the minotaur's axe and it had to fight with its horns only etc

BlackSheep
2009-10-16, 10:36 AM
Man I had no idea everyone hated Kenders! I always found them fun, entertaining and added a little humor to the table. Why are they so hated? Besides stealing EVERYONE's things?

Besides stealing? They're played as the type of character that goes:
"Hey, what's this button do?" *press*

"All this planning is boring. I'm going to see what's behind that door."

"I bet this deep chasm makes a cool echo. HELLOOOOOO!"

They're troublemakers that are oblivious to the consequences of their actions, and not everyone enjoys the company of perpetual children. That said, they're also supposed to be fearless, which is an underappreciated aspect of the race, I think.

Mando Knight
2009-10-16, 10:41 AM
I think you could easily homebrew a 4e kender. Start with halfling stats, but put a hammer next to the player at the gaming table. Every time somebody starts to actually focus on the game or accomplish something, the player grabs the hammer and wails on the table as hard as they can 20-30 times while yelling, "KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER-KENDER!". Ta-daa, the full kender experience.

That's pretty much what I thought. Kender are basically halflings with a funny name and a penchant for annoying everyone else at the game table.

chiasaur11
2009-10-16, 10:48 AM
Besides stealing? They're played as the type of character that goes:
"Hey, what's this button do?" *press*

"All this planning is boring. I'm going to see what's behind that door."

"I bet this deep chasm makes a cool echo. HELLOOOOOO!"

They're troublemakers that are oblivious to the consequences of their actions, and not everyone enjoys the company of perpetual children. That said, they're also supposed to be fearless, which is an underappreciated aspect of the race, I think.


Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. Except a creature be part coward it is not a compliment to say it is brave. ~Mark Twain,

Overcoming fear makes you a brave man and a hero.

Being entirely without fear makes you a moron or a maniac.

Guess where Kender fall?

Kylarra
2009-10-16, 10:49 AM
I guess it depends on the group you play with and how up tight they are. My group simply checked their items ever morning to make sure they still had there stuff and laughed when Laven would steal the minotaur's axe and it had to fight with its horns only etcIt's not even a matter of being uptight.:smallannoyed: It's a matter of a character with both kleptomaniac tendencies and the maturity of a child that is innately defined to be so and cannot be held responsible for their actions. Keep in mind that the players that choose to play kender generally do so at the expense of the rest of the party's fun, the ones that have the skill to play it well, don't need the racial crutch and thus don't play kender.

Siosilvar
2009-10-16, 10:51 AM
"All this planning is boring. I'm going to see what's behind that door."

"LEEEEEROY JENKINS!"

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-16, 11:00 AM
So, yeah. Basically Kender are Halflings, and don't need additional homebrew, just roleplay them accordingly (And be prepared to face the consequences.)

However, to properly model Kender that have somehow escaped the Dragonlance setting I reccommend giving them the following racial trait in addition to everything they get as halflings.

Universal Approval -
Any attacker who scores a critical hit against a Kender regains 3 hit points and an additional d6 per tier. Reality itself approves.

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 11:00 AM
HMMMM well despite everyone's seeming hatred of the race i still find the race quite fun and entertaining. Perhaps everyone has had a bad experience with an annoying player that played a kender. I've played one and no one got annoyed so again it probably just depends on if the group you play with likes roleplaying or rollplaying and how up tight they are. Of course there will be those that take the kender antics to extremes but i'm not one of those. Maybe i'll just roll up a halfling rogue with kender-like tendancies.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-16, 11:01 AM
Besides stealing? They're played as the type of character that goes:
"Hey, what's this button do?" *press*

"All this planning is boring. I'm going to see what's behind that door."

"I bet this deep chasm makes a cool echo. HELLOOOOOO!"

They're troublemakers that are oblivious to the consequences of their actions, and not everyone enjoys the company of perpetual children. That said, they're also supposed to be fearless, which is an underappreciated aspect of the race, I think.

We have a player who does that already. Right now, he's playing a Githzerai monk. I do not anticipate this aspect of the player changing, just because his character did.

That said, I think I would slightly change Kurald's response; leave kender as a slightly refluffed halflings, and make taunt a feat option, rather than a replacement for Second Chance... kender are extremely lucky, and tend to survive things they should not.

Mando Knight
2009-10-16, 11:03 AM
Man I had no idea everyone hated Kenders! I always found them fun, entertaining and added a little humor to the table. Why are they so hated? Besides stealing EVERYONE's things?

Tasteful humor is not found in little pests. Especially when they're scrappy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheScrappy) little Karma Houdinis (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarmaHoudini) that get to blame their misdeeds on it being a part of their nature that they can't control.

Kylarra
2009-10-16, 11:05 AM
HMMMM well despite everyone's seeming hatred of the race i still find the race quite fun and entertaining. Perhaps everyone has had a bad experience with an annoying player that played a kender. I've played one and no one got annoyed so again it probably just depends on if the group you play with likes roleplaying or rollplaying and how up tight they are. Of course there will be those that take the kender antics to extremes but i'm not one of those. Maybe i'll just roll up a halfling rogue with kender-like tendancies.I'm a bit tired of your insinuations as to the failings of everyone else's groups, so I'll leave it at this. Kender are all the issues people have with CN characters, added to the fact that are explicitly defined to be this way and cannot be held responsible for their actions. Can they played well? Maybe. Are the majority of them? No.

hamishspence
2009-10-16, 11:06 AM
that reminds me strongly of the MM2 4E bullywugs.

Each time you score a critical hit on one of them, you regain a set amount of hit points- slightly more for more powerful bullywugs, because:

"nature itself is thanking you"

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 11:08 AM
You guys/gals seem so angry :)

LibraryOgre
2009-10-16, 11:10 AM
I'm a bit tired of your insinuations as to the failings of everyone else's groups, so I'll leave it at this. Kender are all the issues people have with CN/E characters, added to the fact that are explicitly defined to be this way and cannot be held responsible for their actions. Can they played well? Maybe. Are the majority of them? No.

CNs, yes, but not CEs. A poorly-played kender (i.e. the obnoxious klepto) is unlikely to stab you in the back or slaughter you in your sleep. He may indirectly cause your death, but he's seldom the one wielding the sword that kills you.

Kylarra
2009-10-16, 11:11 AM
CNs, yes, but not CEs. A poorly-played kender (i.e. the obnoxious klepto) is unlikely to stab you in the back or slaughter you in your sleep. He may indirectly cause your death, but he's seldom the one wielding the sword that kills you.Well true, I'll concede that they're less likely to end up CE-ing you. I'll just leave it at CN for the sake of being accurate.

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 11:17 AM
An alignment+class+race combo will never make a good character. A well thought out concept and someone who enjoys roleplaying can make any character fun for the group. I don't think "oh its because i'm this race/alignment" has ever left my mouth, nor should it if you are decent with roleplaying. Falling back on a race crux is annoying but I don't feel like ALL ppl that play kenders do that. Not all dwarfs are alcoholics and not all elven are uptight. Not all kender are annoying and useless. A child like curiousity and a penchant for getting in to trouble, in my experience, only makes the game more fun. I did not start this thread to start an argument, far from it. I was mearly asking a simple question and it turns out everyone is racist :) and :) = i told a joke so chill out

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-16, 11:32 AM
that reminds me strongly of the MM2 4E bullywugs.

Each time you score a critical hit on one of them, you regain a set amount of hit points- slightly more for more powerful bullywugs, because:

"nature itself is thanking you"

That's because it's stolen wholesale. Seems appropriate, no?


Also, Incubus; Kender are a really, really unbelievable race outside of their native setting, simply because they would get themselves ganked/genocided with unnatural speed if unleashed anywhere that the Gods Themselves weren't actively intervening to prevent this.

As someone who has never even had to play with a Kender, I can confirm that a lot of the hostility is purely for the race as written, and nothing infact to do with the way they are commonly played. It's just the way they are commonly played often makes things worse.

If your group are amused by Kender, and they have no problem with what you playing one will inevitably entail, then go for it, but remember that just because the Kender doesn't think it's stealing from it's allies, or deliberately trying to cause trouble, doesn't mean that isn't a perfectly reasonable assumption for the other characters to make. So if you get stabbed, you really have no room for complaint. It's a real possibility going in, especially if you aren't in a specifically good aligned group of tolerant, patient adventurers.

incubus5075
2009-10-16, 11:45 AM
I find that first paragraph hilarious tiki. :)


It seems that if left to the devises of everyone on this forum that they would kill every kender they meet.

Re-reading my dragonlance PHB the kender race does seem to be made for annoying other players. It even says that it shouldn't be used as a PC if inappropiate. I guess i played a pretty level headed kender. I think our DM also had a house rule stating that people get a stackable bonus to perception if the same character has already stolen from them. To represent having being stolen from over and over by the same person. So they never had a problem with me stealing from me. They just had to 'hold the kender' when we were doing something that required finese

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-16, 11:54 AM
I find that first paragraph hilarious tiki. :)


It seems that if left to the devises of everyone on this forum that they would kill every kender they meet.

This is pretty much the opinion of most people who have met them, as far as I have seen in previous discussions, yes. It is not a huge leap to say that it is likely to extend to characters and societies that exist in the game, too.

Also, that does sound like a pretty reasonable house-rule/use of circumstancial bonuses. It would, if done alongside a 'level headed' kender such as your own, possibly make things relatively tolerable.

As long as your current group is equally understanding, you should be okay, I suspect. If it's a different group, best talk it over with them first, though.

FoE
2009-10-16, 12:00 PM
I don't hate kender. They're useful for all sorts of things, such as:

a) feeding to hungry monsters
b) pushing into pits to form a crude bridge from their bodies
c) target practice
d) strapping on to your arms to use as shields
e) improvised clubs

Lost Demiurge
2009-10-16, 12:00 PM
I did not start this thread to start an argument, far from it. I was mearly asking a simple question and it turns out everyone is racist :) and :) = i told a joke so chill out

Pft, racist? Heh! Next you'll be telling me that I was involved in the Elvish Holocaust... :D


Nah. Got no anger for the little twerps, I just find them fairly worthless as far as game-value goes. Seriously, I've never run into a kender PC that wasn't annoying. Still, if you can play one in such a way that the rest of your group either doesn't mind or enjoys it, go for it.

Optimystik
2009-10-16, 12:27 PM
Besides stealing? They're played as the type of character that goes:
"Hey, what's this button do?" *press*

"All this planning is boring. I'm going to see what's behind that door."

"I bet this deep chasm makes a cool echo. HELLOOOOOO!"

They're troublemakers that are oblivious to the consequences of their actions, and not everyone enjoys the company of perpetual children. That said, they're also supposed to be fearless, which is an underappreciated aspect of the race, I think.


Because kleptomaniac players are annoying, particularly when they can hide behind the fact "oh it's my race and not my fault ^____________^"

Pretty much these.


Overcoming fear makes you a brave man and a hero.

Being entirely without fear makes you a moron or a maniac.

Guess where Kender fall?

Out of curiosity... where do Paladins fall?


We have a player who does that already. Right now, he's playing a Githzerai monk. I do not anticipate this aspect of the player changing, just because his character did.

Well if he pulls the asshat, feel free to bump him to chaotic (if you are the DM) and shut off his level advancement.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-16, 01:38 PM
Well if he pulls the asshat, feel free to bump him to chaotic (if you are the DM) and shut off his level advancement.

Not the GM, and it's 4e.

Talyn
2009-10-16, 02:14 PM
Out of curiosity... where do Paladins fall?



Paladins are immune to fear effects (or resistant, at least, depending on the system). The smart ones can still feel fear, but they have sufficient training/fanaticism to still be in complete control of themselves at all times.

Back on topic: the universal hatred of kender. My gaming group has a relatively new player (also, the only girl in the group) give up on her druid, have her retire, and roll a VERY oddball halfing wild mage. After the first session with the new character, where she played up both the "crazy" and the "fearless" aspect of the character, another player came to me, the DM, and said: "I'm concerned that [name redacted] isn't playing a halfling, she's playing a kender." I assured him that once she got a real hold on the character, the shenanigans would decrease.

He told me: "Good. Because otherwise I'd either have to kill the little [expletive] or have to bow out of the next couple of game sessions."

Kender are THAT annoying, that the mere threat of them in a game cause people to find other things to do on their Sunday nights than play D&D.

[edit: for poor grammar.]

Thajocoth
2009-10-16, 02:36 PM
Look at the stats for 4e's Halflings. Ignore the word Halfling. Tell me what's different for a Kender.

Shardan
2009-10-16, 02:50 PM
Kender have had a bad time because of the way people played them. AKA robbing the rest of the party blind and hiding behind 'but i'm a kender' if they get caught. Rogue in general have had that problem. Just because you're a rogue, doesn't mean you have to take every available opportunity to rob your own adventuring party blind. Ditto for kenders. Now, if you're one of the few people who can run a kender without being a douche, i say just reskin halfling and go.

Kesnit
2009-10-16, 03:11 PM
I'm a bit tired of your insinuations as to the failings of everyone else's groups,

The problem with Kender (and any CN or CE character, or Lawful Stupid Paladins, etc) is NOT with the race, alignment, or class. It is with the player. If the player is an ass, the character will be an ass. I also played a Kender with no complaints from the rest of the group. Sure he did some crazy things (I still get teased about the time I had him go digging through the bloody body parts looking for the item we had to find.) But he was fun and funny.

Drakyn
2009-10-16, 03:14 PM
The problem with Kender (and any CN or CE character, or Lawful Stupid Paladins, etc) is NOT with the race, alignment, or class. It is with the player. If the player is an ass, the character will be an ass. I also played a Kender with no complaints from the rest of the group. Sure he did some crazy things (I still get teased about the time I had him go digging through the bloody body parts looking for the item we had to find.) But he was fun and funny.

Of course, the things you listed certainly make it EASIER for the potentially annoying player to be an ass, because interpreted poorly they come with an excuse. "My code of conduct/alignment/race is meant to act in the most difficult way at all times, so it's not poor roleplaying for me to be unbearable!"

Indon
2009-10-16, 03:17 PM
The problem with Kender (and any CN or CE character, or Lawful Stupid Paladins, etc) is NOT with the race, alignment, or class. It is with the player.

Except that Kenders are expected to be played as Chaotic Moronic (this is the same alignment axis that Lawful Stupid uses) exemplars in the same sense that Elves are expected to be nature-y and/or haughty, dwarves are expected to be gruff, and halflings are expected to be short.

Edit: If ever there were a race in need of its' own personal Drizz't, it's the Kender.

Drakyn
2009-10-16, 03:30 PM
If ever there were a race in need of its' own personal Drizz't, it's the Kender.

This would be awesome. Imagine him like a less violent, three-foot-nought version of the Punisher, and I believe we have the perfect, memorable Kender character. It's funny- reversing the traits of the group for an individual character belonging to that group is one of the most easily overused things you can do, but I'm not sure it's ever been done with Kender. Even the ones that are eventually made "different" are just a bit more serious or "grown-up," yet still highly kendery.

The J Pizzel
2009-10-16, 03:35 PM
The Gods of Gaming would be so upset with us if they knew that we had wasted two pages of this forum on Kender, of all things.

And to you Incubus, don't worry bout the playground hating Kender. We just like picking on 'em (like Drizz't and Cloud clones...and monks). No one is telling you not to play one. In fact, most people here have encouraged that if you can play one adequately, by all means. One thing the playground has always agreed on is if you're having fun with something (excluding Pun Pun), play it.

And don't worry about Kylarra. A Kender broke her heart many moons ago and now she goes into fits of rage when people speak of them. That's it Kylarra, let it out!!!:smallwink:


(she's gonna kill me when she reads this)

Kesnit
2009-10-16, 05:55 PM
Except that Kenders are expected to be played as Chaotic Moronic (this is the same alignment axis that Lawful Stupid uses) exemplars in the same sense that Elves are expected to be nature-y and/or haughty, dwarves are expected to be gruff, and halflings are expected to be short.

Which feeds back to my point. Just because a race/class is SUPPOSED to be a certain way doesn't mean it has to be, or that it has to be played in an annoying way. It's possible to play Pallys without being Lawful Stupid. It's possible to play Bards that don't seduce everyone on two legs. And it's possible to play Kender who aren't Chaotic Moronic.*


* I love that phrase - Chaotic Moronic! :smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2009-10-16, 05:58 PM
And don't worry about Kylarra. A Kender broke her heart many moons ago and now she goes into fits of rage when people speak of them. That's it Kylarra, let it out!!!:smallwink:


(she's gonna kill me when she reads this)
Hey! That [heart] pendant had sentimental value! :smallfurious:

FoE
2009-10-16, 06:10 PM
No one is telling you not to play one.

I'm pretty sure I was saying that.

Foeofthelance
2009-10-16, 11:13 PM
Man I had no idea everyone hated Kenders! I always found them fun, entertaining and added a little humor to the table. Why are they so hated? Besides stealing EVERYONE's things?

They're the Rogue equivalent of a Drizzt clone; there have simply been so many players who have thought that being a Kender meant being a total unapologetic kleptomaniac that most people automatically shudder at the mere mention of the word.

Can it be done well? Sure, one of my friends played a damned awesome Kender. When he got into mischief it wasn't for stealing things, it was for trying to teach the Chaotic Evil rogue how to hug Good aligned holy objects, playing War with a Deck of Many Things, arguing with his sentient sword, trying to wield a baby grand piano as an improvised melee weapon, or simply driving a Warforged opponent so bug-nuts that the poor villain went from trying to Fight Logically to Trying to Shut the Little Bugger Up! Then again, he also understood the true reason behind Kender existence: not to simply walk off with everyone else's stuff, but to do whatever sounded fun, no matter how stupid or dangerous, or stupidly dangerous, it might actually be. Most people don't get that, though, and so the reputation of Kender suffers.

Not Five
2009-10-16, 11:36 PM
One of the first people I ever played D&D with occasionally played a kender.

He was actually quite the skilled roleplayer, for a twelve-year-old. The experience was nevertheless an intensely annoying one. (And we were twelve, so a character had to be pretty annoying to stand out from the crowd.)

Gametime
2009-10-17, 12:27 PM
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. Except a creature be part coward it is not a compliment to say it is brave. ~Mark Twain,

Overcoming fear makes you a brave man and a hero.

Being entirely without fear makes you a moron or a maniac.

Guess where Kender fall?

Nitpick: Kender are not immune to fear. They are simply really, really, really, really hard to scare. Tass had the unpleasant experience of first becoming frightened when he tried to approach the Tower of Wayreth.

Presumably, this would manifest in-game as either a massive bonus to saves against fear, or immunity to non-magical fear.

Aron Times
2009-10-17, 02:12 PM
I believe the Tower is an exception to the rule that kender are fearless. In 3.5, kender are statted as Fearless, making them immune to all fear effects.

Ozymandias9
2009-10-17, 06:57 PM
It seems that if left to the devises of everyone on this forum that they would kill every kender they meet.

Kender can be played well, but part of it is foreseeing and embracing this reaction. Cities shouldn't let them into the walls. LE societies might condone their killing as a law. Non-good, non-lawful individuals should react violently when they "borrow" from them. Good characters who struggle with their alignment (as well as any but the most extreme of their companions) should at least get angry at them on a regular basis.

And if you're putting them in the setting in any quantity, it might also be important to give a reason why they've already fallen to genocide (at least, if your table is concerned with consistency or if you have a player likely to consider genocide). Until the 5th age of Krynn, this is done by placing their society in a remote, generally inhospitable area which individual kender only leave when they have wanderlust (for most kender, this is a short term condition that only comes up once). No one wants the land, and they are relatively uncommon outside of Kendermore.


Nitpick: Kender are not immune to fear. They are simply really, really, really, really hard to scare. Tass had the unpleasant experience of first becoming frightened when he tried to approach the Tower of Wayreth.

Presumably, this would manifest in-game as either a massive bonus to saves against fear, or immunity to non-magical fear.

It's been given as both, depending on revision. Given the sum of the current book based lore, a very high save bonus would be the best option. It's also notable that they don't even generally notice effects like dragonfear, which is generally treated like a supernatural effect in the Dragonlance novels rather than the modern extraordinary effect version. They're not overcoming it: it's not effecting them at all. There's probably a way to represent this in the rules better than a single save, but a save functions and the fluff is mostly a role playing concern.

There are at least four sources of fear which are known to be powerful enough to overcome it:
The forest around the Tower of High Sorcery at Palanthas, which is essentially a very powerful artifact.
The presence of a death knight, or at least Soth.
The presence of a god, or at least Takhissis.
The presence or a dragon overloard, or at least Malystryx.