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Tavar
2009-10-16, 04:12 PM
Would a Shapeshift druid qualify for Warshaper? Essentially, would shapeshift trigger any of the warshaper's abilities/

arguskos
2009-10-16, 04:15 PM
Would a Shapeshift druid qualify for Warshaper? Essentially, would shapeshift trigger any of the warshaper's abilities/
Yes. See how under the prereqs it says "Wild shape, or similar class abilities"? The last part, similar class abilities, is what matters. I'd say that Shapeshift is close enough to Wild Shape to count as similar in this case.

Tavar
2009-10-16, 04:17 PM
Yes. See how under the prereqs it says "Wild shape, or similar class abilities"? The last part, similar class abilities, is what matters. I'd say that Shapeshift is close enough to Wild Shape to count as similar in this case.

Ah, I missed that. Thanks. Granted, wouldn't be taking all the levels: the capstone would be completely useless to me.

arguskos
2009-10-16, 04:19 PM
Ah, I missed that. Thanks. Granted, wouldn't be taking all the levels: the capstone would be completely useless to me.
It's technically a DM call, but the intent is pretty clearly there. As always, ask your DM and don't consider my advice gospel. :smallwink:

Also, yeah, Warshaper's fun stuff. :smallcool:

Starbuck_II
2009-10-16, 04:25 PM
Yes. See how under the prereqs it says "Wild shape, or similar class abilities"? The last part, similar class abilities, is what matters. I'd say that Shapeshift is close enough to Wild Shape to count as similar in this case.

Whoa, I never considerd that Shapeshifted qualified for any Druid Prc.

arguskos
2009-10-16, 04:31 PM
Whoa, I never considerd that Shapeshifted qualified for any Druid Prc.
Well, if it requires JUST Wild Shape, it doesn't. In the case of Warshaper, the prereqs are much more open, so shapeshift has the chance to qualify.

DragoonWraith
2009-10-16, 05:07 PM
I'm hoping to have my DM accept the Bloodclaw Master's Shifting as acceptable for Warshaper, too. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it would be really cool.

arguskos
2009-10-16, 05:12 PM
I'm hoping to have my DM accept the Bloodclaw Master's Shifting as acceptable for Warshaper, too. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it would be really cool.
That's the super Shifter class, right? If so, you're in luck! Warshaper permits you to enter if you have the shapechanger subtype... which the shifter race does. :smallamused:

comicshorse
2009-10-16, 07:05 PM
I'm playing a Shifter at the moment but I've never heard of the Bloodclaw Master. What book is it in ?

The_Snark
2009-10-16, 07:13 PM
That's the super Shifter class, right? If so, you're in luck! Warshaper permits you to enter if you have the shapechanger subtype... which the shifter race does. :smallamused:

Nope—Bloodclaw Master is a Tome of Battle prestige class, which happens to grant an ability almost identical to the shifter racial ability. You're thinking of the Weretouched Master, I believe.

arguskos
2009-10-16, 08:32 PM
Nope—Bloodclaw Master is a Tome of Battle prestige class, which happens to grant an ability almost identical to the shifter racial ability. You're thinking of the Weretouched Master, I believe.
Damn, yeah, I was thinking of Weretouched Master.

Looking at Bloodclaw Master, it doesn't technically qualify for Warshaper, since it's one shift is too limited, and as it itself says, is more akin to Barbarian Rage than anything else. That's really a DM call.

T.G. Oskar
2009-10-16, 09:00 PM
Warshaper has a pretty lax set of rules to enter. So as long as it's not a limited alternate form ability (such as the vampire's ability to turn into bats, IIRC), and you have a method to remain transformed for a prolonged about of time (shapechanger, able to cast Polymorph and similar spells, change shape ability) you can enter.

Bloodclaw Master (ToB 96-97) by itself does not grant a shapeshifting ability, as the claws and "stance" (so to speak) are akin to a barbarian's rage rather than an actual transformation. It's great for Shifters since it essentially acts like if you had an increase in Constitution, or a lot of feats that grant you prolonged use of Shifting and extra uses per day, plus it really works nice for TWF users.

Weretouched Master isn't that good if you look at it closely, unless you start as Bloodclaw Master or Warshaper first. The capstone ability was errata'ed to death (you can only assume the animal form, not the alternate form IIRC), and a few of the abilities granted aren't that hot (Rat and Boar are kinda meh, Bear is really good, Tiger is awesome with Bloodclaw and TWF) Furthermore, two of the abilities key off Charisma, which the Shifter has as a penalty.

Warshaper, on the other hand, is really beautiful. A shifter only needs 4 of the 5 levels, as the last one is a bit pointless (you don't have multiple forms and you shift as a free action), but the earlier four levels are magnificent. If you can find a secondary transformation method (such as an ability to change into another shape for an unlimited amount of time), you don't need to be healed, which will aid the wand users on out-of-battle healing (since you have better healing than a wand of Lesser Vigor or CLW); immunity to crits is too good to be true, and if you get to mix the right shifter trait and INA, you can make your natural attacks deal screwed-up damage.