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View Full Version : [4e] The Diplomancer... or just how high can I get those stats at PP?



R. Shackleford
2009-10-16, 09:22 PM
Okay, so how high can I get my Charisma and Diplomacy Skill at level eleven?

The constraints are:


None of the Magazine Material, meaning only the books.
Assume that Cha will be a base 18, before Racial Bonuses.
Also, assume that character stats will be distributed 18-down before racial bonuses.
Starting level is 11.


I don't know what the starting GP would be.

I think, using the builder, I got a Half-Elf Bard to 23 Diplomacy, but I wasn't able to look through items and stuff to see if there was anything else, and I was probably doing it wrong anyway.

If this would spark a 'DIYnub' reply, then, I guess I will. But at least, are there any items in 4e that increase the relevant stats? Thanks either way.

noiadodh
2009-10-16, 09:37 PM
you can still abuse diplomacy in 4e?

R. Shackleford
2009-10-16, 09:40 PM
I have no idea.

FoE
2009-10-16, 09:43 PM
EDIT: Evidently, I don't know what I'm talking about.

But no, no more Diplomacy abuse.

Gralamin
2009-10-16, 09:45 PM
You have the character builder, so you must be a D&D insider (Legally), so its odd to not allow Dungeon / Dragon. Regardless...

Using The Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx) with a search for diplomacy, and some stuff off the top of my head...

Cha 20 to start with. +3 from levels = 23. (Level + Mod = 5+6 = 11)
Training in Diplomacy (+5 Untyped)
Skill Focus Diplomacy (+3 feat bonus)
Half Elf for +2 Diplomacy (+2 Racial bonus)
Background for Diplomacy (+2 Untyped)
Mark of Scribing (Eberron, +2 untyped Diplomacy, +4 Languages)
-------------------------------
+25 before Items

Items (Assuming Artifacts are out)
Gem of Colloquy (+1 untyped Item bonus to Diplomacy, head slot, +1 Language, AV; Paragon Version gives +2 Instead, +2 Languages.)
Or
Skald's Armor +2 (+2 Item bonus to Diplomacy, Armor, PHB 2)
Or
Choker of Eloquence +2 (+2 Item bonus to Diplomacy, Neck, AV)
Or
Peacemaker's Periapt +2 (+2 Item Bonus to Diplomacy, Neck, AV)
or
A Few dozen other items give Item bonuses.
Fragrance of Authority (+2 Power bonus to Diplomacy, AV)
----------------------------
+3 to 4 From items

+28 to 29 base. Words of Friendship can Increase it by 3 for a check (Power bonus overlap). Multiclass Sorcerer to pick up Subtlety of the Green Wyrm if you want (1/day for an encounter get Words Of Friendships bonus, basically. AP)

Item Alternative:
Drop the item bonus to Diplomacy items. You and each ally in the group grab one of the Heirlooms of Mazgorax set. This can get you between +2 to +5 To diplomacy (So a Maximum Base of +32 this way, able to be boosted up to +35).


Edit: Oops, made a mistake fixed.

Not Five
2009-10-16, 09:51 PM
you can still abuse diplomacy in 4e?

Not in the way you could in 3e. 4e doesn't have any such silliness as the 3e Diplomacy chart. It has a chart of skill DCs that ought to be difficult/moderately difficult/easy for a character of a given level, usable with any skill, and it is possible to get bonuses that waaaaaay exceed those DCs if you try hard enough... but it is a list of suggested DCs, and it's up to the DM what succeeding on any given Diplomacy check will actually get you.

It is possible to get very high skill bonuses--but I would recommend that you try looking at temporary bonuses instead of constant ones. There are quite a few powers which give you really nice bonuses to your next Diplomacy check, like +5 or +10, and some of these even stack.

DSCrankshaw
2009-10-16, 09:52 PM
You can also take a paragon path that adds +2 to Diplomacy checks. The Invoker PP Speaker of the Word gives +2 for any charisma based skill.

For powers, I'm partial to Astral speech--+4 to Diplomacy for the rest of the encounter, available at level 2.

EDIT: The DMG2 has a suggestion of DCs for the really focused players--Hard DC + 10. That way, it's achievable, but only for those who are really focused. As long as it's understood that that is what it is, it works.

R. Shackleford
2009-10-16, 10:09 PM
You have the character builder, so you must be a D&D insider (Legally), so its odd to not allow Dungeon / Dragon. Regardless...


Ah, that. The main reason is I'm the only one in this section of the DND group that can be arsed to download it and bring a laptop. Since they don't want to do that much, no since in doing anything that my lead to them touching my laptop.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Thajocoth
2009-10-17, 12:29 AM
I didn't pay attention to what was and wasn't from Dragon. I just used the builder. When I ran out of bonuses to Diplomacy, I took some to Bluff, as you can sometimes assist Diplomacy with Bluff.

The familiar chosen is a Parrot.

No items at all version:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Elf, Bard, Half-Elf Emissary
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Waterdeep (Waterdeep Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 21, Dex 11, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 17.


AC: 16 Fort: 20 Reflex: 17 Will: 22
HP: 83 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +19, Streetwise +18, Diplomacy +29, Intimidate +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +11, Heal +5, History +7, Insight +7, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +7, Stealth +6, Thievery +6, Athletics +6

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Mark of Scribing
Level 4: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Level 6: Radiant Soul
Level 8: Friendly Deception
Level 10: Furtive Signals
Level 11: Skill Focus (Bluff)

POWERS
Bard utility 2: Inspire Competence
Bard utility 6: Haggle
Bard utility 10: Clockwork Precision

ITEMS
Ritual Book
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
29 flat + 5 (Words of Friendship).
Allies Assisting: + 2 (Inspire competance) + 2 (Clockwork precision [which also causes assists to add 3 instead of 2]) = +4 total. They assist on 6.
Rerolls: Haggle

That's 1d20 + 34 + 3 per ally who rolls 6 or higher with the ability to speak all but 2 languages (if using only PHB languages) and a re-roll.

With Items:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Elf, Bard, Half-Elf Emissary
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Waterdeep (Waterdeep Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 21, Dex 11, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 17.


AC: 24 Fort: 23 Reflex: 20 Will: 25
HP: 83 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +23, Streetwise +18, Diplomacy +33, Intimidate +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +10, Heal +5, History +7, Insight +7, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +7, Stealth +5, Thievery +5, Athletics +5

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Familiar
Level 2: Mark of Scribing
Level 4: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Level 6: Radiant Soul
Level 8: Friendly Deception
Level 10: Furtive Signals
Level 11: Skill Focus (Bluff)

POWERS
Bard utility 2: Inspire Competence
Bard utility 6: Haggle
Bard utility 10: Clockwork Precision

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Skald's Chainmail +3, Cli Lyre +3, Choker of Eloquence +3
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
33 flat + 5 (Words of Friendship or Cil Lyre).
Allies Assisting: + 2 (Inspire competance) + 2 (Clockwork precision [which also causes assists to add 3 instead of 2]) + 5 (Cil Lyre) = +9 total. They assist on a nat 1.
Rerolls: Haggle, Choker of Eloquence

That's 1d20 + 38 + 3 per ally present with 2 rerolls. Toss in a Gem of Colloquy and you can speak every language in the PHB.

10, 16 & 21 are the suggested DCs for an easy, medium or hard skill check at 11th level. Even using the original values (higher by 5), with or without items, you would completely decimate the DC on a nat 1 without use of your special stuff, even with a -5 circumstance penalty.

EDIT: Looking into it, Haggle is from the PHB 3 (not out yet, so Dragon), Radiant Soul is from Dragon 371, so subtract 2 from Diplomacy for not having that and Furtive Signals is from Dragon 373, but isn't actually doing anything. Everything else is available in the books.

So, removing Radiant Soul, with using only your raw diplomacy score, no items, the older hard DC (26), a -5 circumstance penalty, no assists and a nat 1, you'd roll 27. 27 > 26.

EDIT 2: I don't know if Parrot is from Dragon or not and it doesn't say. If it's from Dragon, subtract another 2 from Diplomacy. 25 < 26, so you'd need a nat 1 in horrible conditions to fail without the parrot... And even then, there are all the bonus powers at your disposal, from rerolls to power bonuses...