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Foeofthelance
2009-10-16, 11:30 PM
Ok, I admit it. I grawped up. What I expected to be a short series of combats and skill checks managed to turn into a complete TPK. (Long story short - A tough fight becomes much tougher when the players can't seem to roll above five and the DM doesn't seem to roll below 15. We were all using the same dice, so no accusing me of cheating!)

So as to not punish my players for my mistakes, I've decided that rather than having been killed, they've instead been captured by the gnomes they were fighting with the intention that they end up as slaves. But first they get locked up in an old garrison, where they'll have to replace their gear with what they can find, but which shouldn't be too difficult.

The question is, what should they face? I don't want the next few encounters to be just ambushing guard patrol after guard patrol; I want them to face the challenge of breaking out of a small fort. The prison is run by gnomes, who are in a sort of war with Dragonkind; as such they tend to build lots of mechanical weapons and constructs to make up for the difference in power levels. I figure there will be a few Warforged about as robotic minions; gnomes, since its their base; a few kept beasties as guard dogs. What else, and any ideas what kind of beasties? Normally I'd say Guard drakes, but they gnomes don't like lizards very much...

Party is level 2, eight man, mostly combat oriented. No rogues, 1 cleric. All freshman players. Help? Please?

Emperor Tippy
2009-10-16, 11:37 PM
I take it that you want an escapable prison? And not one that is inescapable (even though those are much cheaper and easier to make).

Pyron
2009-10-16, 11:48 PM
What else, and any ideas what kind of beasties? Normally I'd say Guard drakes, but they gnomes don't like lizards very much...

Guard Dire-Weasels or Dire-Rats.

Also, since the party is in a slave camp. You can have rioting prisoners... maybe. Undead - as the corspe of former slaves. Magical mishap turns the prison gruel into an black ooze.

Ofcourse, when they escape the camp they are plenty of varied wilderness encounters.

Maybe a dragon tank... opps, wrong game.... :smallbiggrin:

Foeofthelance
2009-10-16, 11:49 PM
Nah, if I wanted inescapable I could do that already; I was taught DMing by having to outthink people who were demonstrably smarter and more experienced than I was/am. The final plan is for them to hijack a small airboat and head for the Dragon capital.

Katana_Geldar
2009-10-16, 11:52 PM
Work backwards from there, what do they need to do to get that boat?

Chrono22
2009-10-16, 11:59 PM
Alternatively you could have them construct it from what materials are at hand.
If more details are not forthcoming, I can't help you more.

gallagher
2009-10-17, 12:07 AM
Nah, if I wanted inescapable I could do that already; I was taught DMing by having to outthink people who were demonstrably smarter and more experienced than I was/am. The final plan is for them to hijack a small airboat and head for the Dragon capital.have them face a few gnome druids who specialize in burrowing animals (since they are fresh, they will probably think the stereotypes are all true, and that gnomes only deal with burrowing animals.)

as a fun joke, have one of the gnome druids turn into a dwarf.

have them escape out of the sewer where they get some made up artifact that you created that will lead to a nice side-plot or some kind of cool weapon that they can use and that will level with them. that would make them want to keep playing

jiriku
2009-10-17, 11:26 PM
Save time: don't figure out how they will escape, because whatever escape method you come up with, they most assuredly will not think of it and will instead do something totally unexpected.

Guard dogs and warforged are excellent sentries for places where prisoners are not supposed to be. Gnomish wardens would likely be involved where prisoners are supposed to be, on the theory that it takes people to control other people.

Assuming you already have a map, I'd define three encounters:


a standard gnomish patrol
a standard strike team used to quell riots/escape attempts inside the prison,
a standard hunting party used to pursue escapees outside the grounds.


Define the route and frequency of patrols, and decide on the high value areas that will always be guarded (armory, warden's room, guard towers, entrances/exits). Then decide what the default warning system is for an attempted prison break and how the staff reacts once a break is discovered.

Now that you know how the environment behaves, just sit back and let the PCs do what they do. Whatever strategy they attempt, you now know what the default reaction of the jailors will be, and you can improvise from there if necessary.

Edit: The gnomes ought to have one big flying beastie for air superiority. Maybe a manticore. Manticores are cool.

Yahzi
2009-10-18, 11:51 AM
It's much more fun to release them... in exchange for a promise.

First, work them to exhaustion in the mines, being whipped by gnomes, and surrounded by so much firepower they know they can't possibly win. Do this for a few days of game-time. Really rub it in.

Then have the prison warden offer them their freedom... in exchange for a promise to find, capture, and return someone who did escape from the mines. If the party is Good, then their word is good enough: you can threaten them with alignment change if they don't follow through. If they're Evil, use a Quest/Geas, and make sure they understand that if they willingly agree to it, it is unbreakable.

Then, later, at your leisure, you can yank their chain.

A) The target is a powerful hero.
B) The target is the servant of a really powerful leader.
C) The target is good - but deserving (he actually committed a crime against the gnomes, either as an accident or a lapse of judgment)
D) The target is evil, and wanted by a different (good) faction for a much more serious crime.
E) The target is Evil, but is currently helping the cause of Good.
F) The target turns out to be a friend of theirs, hiding from an ugly past.
G) The target turns out to be a hero who escaped the prison... by being let go to hunt down the previous escapee. (In other words, a some point in the past, someone escaped, and the warden's been playing catch-up ever since). Now the party will realize that eventually the warden will send someone after them (and he's studied them for days, so he knows their class/level/skills/etc.)

You can combine these, too. My choice would be E, F, and G. :smallbiggrin:

Toliudar
2009-10-18, 12:38 PM
With a group as large and unstealthy as yours, their ability to sneak around patrols and the like is pretty limited. What about having them tossed down a hole into a dungeon space without gear, with the gnomes' intent clearly being that the PC's are food for whatever is down there? The classic of this style of play is the old A4, In the Dungeon of the Slave Lords. That way, the PC's can wander around, gathering up bits of gear as they kill subterranean beasties, and eventually find the key (literal or metaphorical) to bypassing the mechanical lock/trap/impassible guardian that you've got set up at the entrance.

Because they're low level and poorly equipped, even a fairly simple encounter can prove lethal to one or another character, even though as a group they can defeat it without difficulty. If you remove or reduce the time pressure to escape, they can (hopefully) get rested and do a little planning, instead of blundering forward with four hit points.

Requiem Star
2009-10-18, 12:52 PM
Give them a choice.

Option one, sneak on to the barracks roof and silently disable the guards before they can shout a warning to the anti dragon cannoneers. Option one B, disable the cannoneers, again with stealth if possible. If they fail give them either a chance to disappear back into the press of prisoners or else have them end up in maximum security.

Option two, organize a riot. The characters have to break into the sealed off basement of the prison, with undead and rats, to get enough weapons to give the prisoners a chance. Then the prisoners face a few straight forward encounters. Make it clear that if the players can't beat these encounters then the riot will fail.

Option three, chain gang. The gnomes are trying to fortify the prison against attack and the heroes are picked along with other prisoners for work detail. An opportunity presents itself... maybe the attack happens or maybe one of the other prisoners makes a distraction. The heroes have to overcome the guards while being forced to remain in an adjacent square to two others.

Option four, canaries. This is a good one if the players fail at one of the options above. The warden of the prison has a nasty dungeon and the players are going to clean it out for him. They're given non-magical equipment and told that they have till morning before the gnomes collapse and seal the entrance. Either they find something inside that lets them teleport away or else they get enough gear to fight for their freedom.

Option five, rescue! No. Do NOT have NPC's swoop in to save the characters. Instead have the players make characters who are assigned to take the prison. Come up with ideas for approaches and what will happen if they fail.

Foeofthelance
2009-10-19, 02:00 PM
Give them a choice.

Option one, sneak on to the barracks roof and silently disable the guards before they can shout a warning to the anti dragon cannoneers. Option one B, disable the cannoneers, again with stealth if possible. If they fail give them either a chance to disappear back into the press of prisoners or else have them end up in maximum security.

Option two, organize a riot. The characters have to break into the sealed off basement of the prison, with undead and rats, to get enough weapons to give the prisoners a chance. Then the prisoners face a few straight forward encounters. Make it clear that if the players can't beat these encounters then the riot will fail.

Option three, chain gang. The gnomes are trying to fortify the prison against attack and the heroes are picked along with other prisoners for work detail. An opportunity presents itself... maybe the attack happens or maybe one of the other prisoners makes a distraction. The heroes have to overcome the guards while being forced to remain in an adjacent square to two others.

Option four, canaries. This is a good one if the players fail at one of the options above. The warden of the prison has a nasty dungeon and the players are going to clean it out for him. They're given non-magical equipment and told that they have till morning before the gnomes collapse and seal the entrance. Either they find something inside that lets them teleport away or else they get enough gear to fight for their freedom.

Option five, rescue! No. Do NOT have NPC's swoop in to save the characters. Instead have the players make characters who are assigned to take the prison. Come up with ideas for approaches and what will happen if they fail.

I think I'm going to go with a combination of 1,2, and 5. Except instead of a rescue party coming into break them out, there's a rescue party coming into break the rest of the prisoners out. A decent sized Kobold assault squad mounted on Dragonspawn and led by a Dragonborn paladin. Possible moment of danger when they take off, especially if the dracos think they're escaping gnomes... But the attack should prove enough of a riot, and they can hook up with a squad of npc kobolds for a little bit of help, including at least one sorcerer and two rogues. There will be a locked room for them to pick up some replacement gear in, as well.

Looks like its going to be Gnomes ---> Gnomes with Support ---> Warforged ---> 1 Warforged titan, leveled down. Maybe throw in a gelatinous cube or oozes the gnomes were breeding for prisoner/slave disposal.

holywhippet
2009-10-19, 03:30 PM
So as to not punish my players for my mistakes, I've decided that rather than having been killed, they've instead been captured by the gnomes they were fighting with the intention that they end up as slaves. But first they get locked up in an old garrison, where they'll have to replace their gear with what they can find, but which shouldn't be too difficult.


I wouldn't say the results are due to you making a mistake. It sounds like bad luck on their part and good luck on yours.

Solaris
2009-10-19, 03:38 PM
Guard Dire-Weasels or Dire-Rats.

Also, since the party is in a slave camp. You can have rioting prisoners... maybe. Undead - as the corspe of former slaves. Magical mishap turns the prison gruel into an black ooze.

Ofcourse, when they escape the camp they are plenty of varied wilderness encounters.

Maybe a dragon tank... opps, wrong game.... :smallbiggrin:

Not dire weasels, those are kobolds. Dire badgers.

A 'friendly' ghost might not be a bad idea. Nothing too powerful, just someone to distract the guards at convenient moments.

Ormagoden
2009-10-19, 04:12 PM
Not to mention their could be a powerful character among the other prisoners. The PCs could get caught up with an escape plan already in the works. If they want in on it...they'll have to pay the price once they get outside.

Perhaps there is a mole amongst the prisoners. Someone sent in to ferret out prisoners who are attempting to make a break. The prisoners who are planning to escape don't know who it is and seek out the PCs for help because they are new. If they help out...they have a free ticket to tinsel town.

Guards become corrupt too, exchanges with prisoners for contraband is common. Do they PC's have allies? Who can come and break them out?

The possibilities are endless. Get your prison down like others suggested above. See what the PCs do! You might be surprised at the trouble a party can cause. If the players get bored or frustrated let the plot train drag them along to something interesting.

"After a few weeks (months, years) rotting in the prison you finally have an idea about the guard shift changes...In three days you'll have about a thirty minute window to try and escape with minimum resistance...what do you do?"

Whatever you do make it fun! being imprisoned sucks! so the Players might get frustrated easily... Keep an eye on that level of frustration and move plot along if players get uncomfortable or disinterested.

Foeofthelance
2009-10-19, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't say the results are due to you making a mistake. It sounds like bad luck on their part and good luck on yours.

They were level 1 at the time. Admittedly, most of the foes were level 1 minions with crap AC, but all the leaders were Level 3. It was meant to be spread out over several encounters, and sort of was, but I let them get all bunched up into one instead.