Relationship Woes and Advice, The Bridge Across Forever

[Pyrian]

Well...After the confession thread, I saw way too many "what do I do in this situation" threads popping up, so here is one nice compendium. Come here to post questions about how to approach the opposite sex, the dread first date and, should you be in a relationship already and fairly certain they don't read Giant, a place to complain/seek advice about a current flame.
...
The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

so please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and im sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a responsePrevious Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121254)

[Tiger Duck]

It is almost starting to be a tradition, but I'll start.

For some reason I'm only attracted to unobtainability. Because when I meet a new lady I'm usually interested. But when she appears to be interested in me I lose all interest and become a highly annoying to make sure she drops all acquaintance with me.

This is of course highly unhelpful if I don't want to be single forever.

So I wonder if I'm alone that acts this way? If anyone knows why this happens. And what I can do to stop acting like this.

[Moonshadow]

...gah. I need a translator. She tells me she wants me to back off while she sorts her life out, and that there is probably no chance of anything happening between us in the future, but then I get a test message at 1 am in the morning asking me how my day was, and that she missed not being able to talk to me today.

Someone, please tell me what the hell is going on?

[Serpentine]

First of all, I wanna mention that I think Coidzor's suggestion in the last thread, something along the lines of "don't bother talking to the ********", was EXTRAORDINARILY harsh. We don't know what's going on in her life, and being confused about what she wants is hardly a condemnable sin.

Naoto, I can't remember, did she give a reason for being so shy etc? I would suggest, if she's iffy about starting romantic things in person, just take it easy with friendly stuff not-in-person, like SMSing - which she's obviously comfortable with. For one reason or another, she's iffy about starting something new, and about meeting people. I was similar for a bit. So, maybe let her take the lead for a bit (and like Pancake keeps stressing, you don't have to put your life on hold for her), but don't necessarily give up on her, just take it slower, and start with building a friendship.
My take on what's going on, to answer your question: She feels uncomfortable doing certain things, and is uncertain of what she wants, how far she wants to go, etc, but is still maybe wanting what would be the consequence of aforementioned certain things. So, she's taking baby-steps to ease herself into it, because her misgivings probably have little or nothing to do with you, and she likes you.

[Moonshadow]

No, she didn't really give a reason for being shy. Apart from the whole "guys wanted sex and I gave it to them to make them happy" thing, and the part about wanting to do right by me and go slowly.

I don't know if I'd be a good friend. I think I'd feel a bit like a hanger on kind of friend, because we really don't do much of the same things, she's a lot more social and goes out a lot while I prefer to stay home, that kind of thing.

I honestly don't know what to do with her.

[Serpentine]

If you wouldn't make good friends, how could you make good boy/girlfriends?

What to do: Chat, SMS, be friendly, etc. Wait and see where it goes.

[Klose_the_Sith]

My woe is that soon I'll be in England for four months and while it is true that I'll be able to call my beloved, talking to her on the phone is just ... really lame. I have no problems talking to her any other way, but it seems that phone calls between us are just really really awkward/lame.

Other then that I am woefully bereft of woes, but if you want unhelpful advice then I'll listen to ANYTHING (seriously). :smallsmile:


If you wouldn't make good friends, how could you make good boy/girlfriends?

I've always thought that there can sometimes be a chemistry between some people which enables relationships, but prevents serious friendships. Pretty sure I've seen some examples of it and some blatant disregards for it (my current relationship grew out of the best friendship I'd made this year at my new school ... it also kicks ass :smallsmile:)

[xPANCAKEx]

Captain Happy

why do you try to put them off you?

donthaveone83

just to re-itterate what dracomorph said - as they are unbelievably right - you have them over a barrel at the moment. They NEED you. Remember that.

But a verbal contract is still a contract... If they change your working conditions, get a new contract drawn up. It creates greater clarity all round

Naoto Shirogane

i have to half agree with serp on this - she might be trying to be friendly... but i personally would still keep my distance. As much as being friends would be nice, by the sounds of everything you've said you don't want to be 'just friends', and no-one with any sense will think less of you for it

Let me put it to you this way: You're not friends therefore you don't 'owe' her anything (yes - this is selfish thinking, but given the circumstances, its not objectionable to be so). If she wants distance thats fine. If she doesn't want distance, thats fine too. But mixed signals are NOT fine at this point. You're perfectly within your rights to say "hey, whats going on - first you say you want distance now you're talking to me again. It feels like you're picking me up and putting me down as you please, and im not sure i like that... so whats the score?". This

she may of course run a mile (and if she does, you've dodged a bullet on ths one) - but you DO deserve some explaination and clarity

[Tiger Duck]

I really don't know ...
Maybe on some level I don't want a relationship.
or I'm defending myself against the change a relationship would entail.
or I don't want to be responsible for their happiness.
or I'm just weird.
... I just don't know

[Lord Loss]

I'm Confused.

Theres a rumor that I like a girl at my school (which is true). A minority of people think she likes me back. People who belive the rumor told her I like her. She told someone that I told her I like her. The girl and I are friends, and I did not tell her that. What does this mean ??? (Decoding Females would be a bestseller...).

[xPANCAKEx]

captain happy

you're not 'responsible' for their happiness - they are

the rest i can't answer

Lord Loss

it doesn't 'mean' anything

if you want to get to the bottom of the situation, and you say shes a friend, just talk to the girl, call her out on it. "so words reached me on the grapevine that you like me... any truth to that' - and see what she says. At least that way you'll know for sure

[Lord Loss]

Actually she said that I said I liked her. Or do you mean I should say I heard she liked me?

[loopy]

For some reason I'm only attracted to unobtainability. Because when I meet a new lady I'm usually interested. But when she appears to be interested in me I lose all interest and become a highly annoying to make sure she drops all acquaintance with me.

This is of course highly unhelpful if I don't want to be single forever.

So I wonder if I'm alone that acts this way? If anyone knows why this happens. And what I can do to stop acting like this.

You aren't. As far as my self-awareness allows me to pick up, I'm attracted to two things that really hamper any solid relationships forming (as well having trust issues, but bleh, thats another story). The two things are:

1) I love the chase. The random flirting, teasing, joking, that happens when you are getting somewhere with a girl.
2) I really just want people to like me. So once a girl actually does fall for me, I lose interest, because my mission is accomplished, and move on to the next person. Its really quite troubling. Moreso because even when girls pick up on it, they just increase their efforts to try and 'win me back', and get even more affectionate than before.

So yeah, you aren't alone.

[xPANCAKEx]

Actually she said that I said I liked her. Or do you mean I should say I heard she liked me?

ignore what people have said she said - this is the grapevine in school after all (its 50/50 at best if something is ever true)

i meant that you should say that you heard she liked you

[Lord Loss]

If this guy said it, it's true. I won't go into details, but he's 100% trustworthy.

[Syka]

It's worth remembering that regardless of terrible contract, you've got them over the table - they can't easily replace you, and you could almost certainly find a new job if you absolutely had to. You do hold more cards than you're giving yourself credit for, although you need to be careful about playing them.

I don't know what country your living in, but where I am EVERYONE is replaceable. Maybe not immediately, but you sure as heck can get replaced quickly. Not only that, it's nigh impossible to get jobs right now in my area as well.

That said, most places do have vacation policies. I don't know how long you've been there, but at my place for every year you work there, you get a week of vacation time (this is in addition to any time you decide to request off). Look into it.

I think most states are right to work states (where either party can terminate it at any time for any reason), and most jobs with a few exceptions follow that policy.

[xPANCAKEx]

If this guy said it, it's true. I won't go into details, but he's 100% trustworthy.

until you hear it from her, its not not 100% - thats the way things go

but if he is sto trust worthy, you'll have no problem calling her out on it

[Serpentine]

But mixed signals are NOT fine at this point. You're perfectly within your rights to say "hey, whats going on - first you say you want distance now you're talking to me again. It feels like you're picking me up and putting me down as you please, and im not sure i like that... so whats the score?".Maybe it's just that I haven't reviewed all his posts, but from what I can recall, I disagree with you - on two points for the "mixed signal" thing.
1. Do you really think we do "mixed signals" deliberately? I suspect that most of the time it's simply because our feelings ARE mixed. One minute we're all keen to give it a shot, and the next minute we're wussing out (or whatever). No, it's not fair, but it's hardly deliberate!
2. I'm not really seeing mixed feelings, per se. It sounds to me like she's apprehensious (why won't that word looke right?!) about leaping straight into a relationship, and is taking baby steps to work out whether she is game to do it. From what I understand, she's been reasonably open about this, inasmuch as someone can be self-aware.

Maybe it's just my own experience biasing my views here. I've never had a relationship start abruptly, with a "hey, wanna be my girlfriend?" sort of a thing. They've all been gradual. If I had someone demand to know whether we were in a relationship before we'd even been getting to know each other, I would balk straight away. But I am oddly adverse to outright confrontation on this sort of thing... It just seems to me that she's trying to develop something at her own pace, while you're telling him that he ought to demand an answer NOW - when she probably doesn't have one, and if one is demanded it may very well be catalysed into a "no".

[Dracomorph]

I really don't know ...
Maybe on some level I don't want a relationship.
or I'm defending myself against the change a relationship would entail.
or I don't want to be responsible for their happiness.
or I'm just weird.
... I just don't know

Or maybe you just freak out when you like someone. I've seen it happen. Sometimes it's just nerves, not self sabotage.

...Not that that makes it any easier to fix, but it's a possibility from where I sit.

[xPANCAKEx]

Maybe it's just that I haven't reviewed all his posts, but from what I can recall, I disagree with you - on two points for the "mixed signal" thing.
1. Do you really think we do "mixed signals" deliberately? I suspect that most of the time it's simply because our feelings ARE mixed. One minute we're all keen to give it a shot, and the next minute we're wussing out (or whatever). No, it's not fair, but it's hardly deliberate!
2. I'm not really seeing mixed feelings, per se. It sounds to me like she's apprehensious (why won't that word looke right?!) about leaping straight into a relationship, and is taking baby steps to work out whether she is game to do it. From what I understand, she's been reasonably open about this, inasmuch as someone can be self-aware.

Maybe it's just my own experience biasing my views here. I've never had a relationship start abruptly, with a "hey, wanna be my girlfriend?" sort of a thing. They've all been gradual. If I had someone demand to know whether we were in a relationship before we'd even been getting to know each other, I would balk straight away. But I am oddly adverse to outright confrontation on this sort of thing... It just seems to me that she's trying to develop something at her own pace, while you're telling him that he ought to demand an answer NOW - when she probably doesn't have one, and if one is demanded it may very well be catalysed into a "no".

i ment mixed signals on the space/no space basis - if she wants to develop slowly thats fine and talk for a while longer thats absolutely fine - just has to be clear and let him know where he stands

and meeting up for a coffee/something isn't a straight-to-relationship deal. Its a 'lets hang out, get to know each other, see how it goes' deal.

theres no demands for an immediate relationship going on

[Serpentine]

SMSing and the like is a valid arms-length on-her-own-terms low-pressure comfort zone getting-to-know-you option, especially for someone with the issues she seems to have. I think letting it go like that for now is fine. If there's never any sign of a change, then he should Have a Talk About Things. For now, while it's weird (and you might wanna think about whether you're up to dealing with her issues), I don't really see the big problem.

[Tiger Duck]

You aren't. As far as my self-awareness allows me to pick up, I'm attracted to two things that really hamper any solid relationships forming (as well having trust issues, but bleh, thats another story). The two things are:

1) I love the chase. The random flirting, teasing, joking, that happens when you are getting somewhere with a girl.
2) I really just want people to like me. So once a girl actually does fall for me, I lose interest, because my mission is accomplished, and move on to the next person. Its really quite troubling. Moreso because even when girls pick up on it, they just increase their efforts to try and 'win me back', and get even more affectionate than before.

So yeah, you aren't alone.

1) I don't even like that. I'm petrified of that.
2) I do want peoples to like me, and to make them happy as far as my ability reaches.

[loopy]

1) I don't even like that. I'm petrified of that.

If I may ask... Why don't you like it?

It could be that you are taking the game too seriously? It is meant to be fun, after all. :smallsmile:

[Dracomorph]

1) I don't even like that. I'm petrified of that.


Sounds like that's your problem, then. While it's bad to focus only on the chase, it's an important part of any budding relationship that you show interest in the other person, and that you feel comfortable spending time with them.

[Tiger Duck]

and that you feel comfortable spending time with them.

there it is, my problem, I dislike spending time with new people.

[AtomicKitKat]

Well, she didn't work Saturday, so now I'm even more nervous waiting for Sunday morning/night to roll around to ask her what she thought about what I said last Sunday before I went away for 5 days. I'm hoping she was just clearing leave(before the new year eats it up), rather than intentionally avoiding me just because I said "I'll talk to you about it Saturday then." when she said she was busy on Thursday. Oh well, you'll know in about 20 hours.:smalleek:

My colleague who covers on the days I'm not there said she saw B talking on her mobile phone almost all day Friday. That could mean all manner of things, so I'm going to try not to think about it.

Also, my brother stopped by tonight(Saturday) after work, and so on the bus trip home, I filled him in on what's been going on with B.:smallbiggrin:

[Dracomorph]

there it is, my problem, I dislike spending time with new people.

Then only date people you already know, I guess. Or you could get to know strange women without considering whether or not they're datable until later. I mean, at the worst, you end up with new friends.

[Sequinox]

This girl I really have -- zero -- attraction to seriously likes me, and isn't the sort of girl that is quiet about it. For instance, she friended me on Facebook, and I accepted, thinking I'd be nice and whatnot. I signed on a few hours ago (and I friended her this morning) to find that she had commented most of my pictures. She's a little creepy, and is all over me. She will not take rejection well. At all. (Not violently, but I'm friends with a lot of her friends, and I really don't want to lose them.)

What do I do?

[Pyrian]

What do I do?Act vaguely flattered but firmly unavailable. If she asks you directly tell her "No," you don't think it would work out. Repeat as necessary. Be firm but gentle. Don't make a scene unless she forces you to; insofar as she's just making comments, let her.


...gah. I need a translator. ...
Someone, please tell me what the hell is going on?It seems to me that she told you what she meant, and that "translating" is what you ought to be avoiding. She's still SMS'ing you, but doesn't want to take it further.

Please try not to get so wrapped up in this girl, Naoto. There are other ones. It's not the end of your world if this one doesn't work out.

[RationalGoblin]

Well, I'm turning 16 in 8 days, and that is when I have decided to allow myself to date.

And, due to my own feelings on the matter, along with the advice of people I know, I am only going to do double dates. I don't want to go to far too fast.

So, how should I ask someone out? How would I bring it up? And what would be a good idea for a double date?

[Moonshadow]

If you wouldn't make good friends, how could you make good boy/girlfriends?

What to do: Chat, SMS, be friendly, etc. Wait and see where it goes.

Because I don't want to be just internet friends, I want to meet this girl.

Whats the point of being friends if I'm just stuck here behind a computer? I can't be that good a friend like that. She has other friends who could do the same things I could do, except better.

I'm just confused, thats all.

And no, I don't want to be just friends. It's stupid, but every new rejection just makes me feel even less desirable and worthy of ever finding love, and it makes it harder and harder to keep trying.

[AtomicKitKat]

And no, I don't want to be just friends. It's stupid, but every new rejection just makes me feel even less desirable and worthy of ever finding love, and it makes it harder and harder to keep trying.

Preaching to the choir, m'boy. It hurts like crazy, but after each one, you get a little more "Rejection Resistance", which reduces the damage of the next one by 1. As long as your heart doesn't turn to stone, you'll eventually get one who can't penetrate your RR.:smallbiggrin:

[xPANCAKEx]

Sequinox

+1 what pyrian said

but unless she makes a move you've got nothing to worry about. Don't actively encourage her, stay friendly and you'll be fine. And if she takes rejection badly, and runs her mouth to a lot of people, then you'll soon find out whos worth having as a friend. If people give you a hard time because you give some a polite 'thanks, flattered, but no thanks' then do you want them as friends in first place?

RationalGoblin

you're looking at things the wrong way. Dating isn't something you should do in the same way you might say "im gunna go to the movies". Its only ever worth doing if you're genuinely attracted to the person involved. As for speed - thats up to you to dictate, if you wanna take things slow with the person in question, let them know from the get go, then *deep breath**exhale* relax... and have fun

If you're new to dating, taking it slow sounds advisable, so kudos to you for being mature about things. If you find a person you're into, and want to take them out on a double date, confer with a friend or (better still) a supporting couple and say to the person involved 'me and x&y are gunna [insert social activity here]. You fancy joining us' - its less overt of a date than i'd usually advise, and unless you explicitly state 'this will be a date' its more hang out - but it will give you a chance to get to know the person in question better. If it goes well then you can see about a follow up date

traditional 'double dates' are either movies or food, or something else that encourages social interaction.

the only problem is some may take the invite as some sort of open social invitation rather than a date, so unless you're prepared to be explicit about it, you may run into that from time to time. Also - be upfront about the fact that the other couple will be there so they don't run across that suprise when they arrive

[Jalor]

What do I do?

"Become taken" is a great solution, unless you don't want any relationship at the moment or are polyamorous. All I can say is make it clear that it's not going to happen, with or without straight rejection. The longer you wait, the worse it'll be when you tell her.

[Exeson]

[Deactivate lurk mode]

Well this is not really a woe, or indeed a question or request for advice but about 10 months ago I posted a problem involving this girl. Anyway cutting out a lot of things in the middle I am now dating this girl. ^_^

So this is just a reminder to people that if you stick with stuff you can get there eventually. To quote one of my friends:- 'Whilst it is a little sad you waited that long it is also nice to see that sometimes patience works.'

So never use 'oh it'll never happen' as an excuse, cause that's what I did, and I turned out to be proven wrong.

[/lurk mode engaged]

[Moonshadow]

Michelle Louise says (9:43 PM):
yeah i havent written you off yet as dating material, i never said i would.


...I apologise for my gross overreaction of the situation. I've been under a lot of stress lately, and I jumped to conclusions and basically exploded.

My apologies :smallredface:

[Quincunx]

(Note to self: hitting the "report" button several times will still not bring you to the "reply" page.)

Actually, I'd say her ignoring you is akin to my not answering your woes for the past several days: why waste the breath when the guy has proven that he either isn't listening or not acting on what he hears?

[Faulty]

but I feel I must say this to all women out there. Never give a guy the "Ignore it, maybe it'll go away" treatment after he declares stuff. Let him say the whole "So I guess I'll just have to go away." bit so he has closure, then you can safely ignore him.

I know you're upset now, but it's really unfair to tell women to force a change in their behaviour to coddle people they're just not interested in. They don't owe you anything, and it's your job to deal with your personal issues, not theirs.

[xPANCAKEx]

Exeson

patience doesn't always pay off... but in your case im glad it has! kudos to you good sir

[Silence]

Ah, well, yesterday was... interesting to say the least.

So, to start things out, I went to a rave. It was a pretty softcore one; no drugs, no sex, nothing like that. Fun stuff, nevertheless.

My girlfriend meets me there, and she basically says she doesn't want to hang out with me at the rave.

:smallannoyed:

She gives some bullcrap excuse about wanting to hang out with her friends, but after her lying to me throughout our entire relationship, I see through this instantly. I ask her for the truth; there's something I did, or something wrong in our relationship. She's really not a subtle person if you pay attention to her body language.

I eventually break up with her (this would be about the third time in a month), and tell her that I can't take any more of her lies, and if she wants to talk to me, she can at least give me the respect and decency that any human, let alone her boyfriend, deserves, then leave and go raving.

About halfway through the rave I come back to the lobby area, and talk to her again, coming back to her like a lost puppy, begging for forgiveness.

I'm so dumb. Incredibly, unbelievably, dumb.

We talk for a moment, then we catch each other looking into each others eyes.

We kiss.

God, I can't say how good I felt for a moment there. I could have died happy. I wish a sniper had just taken me out through the window at that moment. But, no one did, and she proceeded to tell me that she only wants to be friends.

We cuddle on the couch for the next twenty minutes, and talked. My lips were wet with tears when they met her's again, and again, and again. I whispered in her ear that it was like a Fall Out Boy song gone wrong, to which she responded that all FOB songs went wrong. She left after those twenty minutes, saying she couldn't stand it any more. "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." She said to me after one final touch of mouths.

That was my first kiss.

I know why I did it. I did it because I'm dumb. I'm stupid. I'm a fifteen year old guy. Why she did it is still a mystery to me....

I decided to forget that for a few hours, and put off my feelings until I was home. It was a pretty good rave; I gridded with this girl for about twenty minutes straight (no kidding), and gave her my name so she could look me up on Facebook. She still hasn't sent me a friend request, but I don't really care. I had a good time.

I cried myself to sleep after one of the best nights of my life, if you don't count the bad.

So now I'm left with only memories... This makes me think of a song....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpbd6BUO0I

The similarities scare me.

[skywalker]

I know why I did it. I did it because I'm dumb. I'm stupid. I'm a fifteen year old guy. Why she did it is still a mystery to me....

And how old is she? Because I think you might find the same answer appropriate :smallwink:

[Silence]

And how old is she? Because I think you might find the same answer appropriate :smallwink:

Haha, wow, it didn't even cross my mind that she's human, too. I guess we were just a couple stupid teenagers making out on a couch when we're supposed to be friends.

[xPANCAKEx]

silence

puppy love is always gunna suck when its falls apart. Take a few days to yourself. don't beat yourself up over it

just keep your chin up as you will pull through the bad times, and in a couple of months/years time you'll look back on it, smile and possibly even laugh, and chalk it up as a learning experiance

teen romance is a cruel mistress, but you'll do just fine

[Silence]

Thanks for the advice :)

[Pyrian]

Haha, wow, it didn't even cross my mind that she's human, too.http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/Pyrian/picard-facepalm.jpg

It's an important thing to keep in mind. :smallbiggrin:

[Silence]

It's an important thing to keep in mind. :smallbiggrin:

I know, but with all the crazy hormones runnning around, it's hard to keep track of actual logic.

[CrimsonAngel]

silence

puppy love is always gunna suck when its falls apart. Take a few days to yourself. don't beat yourself up over it

just keep your chin up as you will pull through the bad times, and in a couple of months/years time you'll look back on it, smile and possibly even laugh, and chalk it up as a learning experiance

teen romance is a cruel mistress, but you'll do just fine

Teen romance is a dude.

Duh. :smalltongue:

[Silence]

Teen romance is a dude.

Duh. :smalltongue:

This is true.

[loopy]

It's an important thing to keep in mind. :smallbiggrin:

True, but if you are suitably sociopathic, you can just treat them as little social minigames. I tend to slip into that every so oft frequently. :smallconfused:

[snoopy13a]

This girl I really have -- zero -- attraction to seriously likes me, and isn't the sort of girl that is quiet about it. For instance, she friended me on Facebook, and I accepted, thinking I'd be nice and whatnot. I signed on a few hours ago (and I friended her this morning) to find that she had commented most of my pictures. She's a little creepy, and is all over me. She will not take rejection well. At all. (Not violently, but I'm friends with a lot of her friends, and I really don't want to lose them.)

What do I do?

Hmm,

Say that you aren't ready for a relationship and you don't want to date her because if it ended poorly then it would destroy your friendship.

You won't lose any friends if you reject her. No one expects you to date someone that you aren't interested in.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Hmm,

Say that you aren't ready for a relationship and you don't want to date her because if it ended poorly then it would destroy your friendship.

You won't lose any friends if you reject her. No one expects you to date someone that you aren't interested in.

I disagree. I know a girl who was afraid precisely because of this reason. Some people don't take rejection well, and try to force friends to take sides against you.

Especially if that person is manipulative, in which case they could try to make you date them to avoid/end such a backlash. =\

Not saying this will happen with you, but...not everyone is as nice as most playgrounders.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I've started to wonder if I'm mentally incapable of believing women when they say they're interested in me. Surely at least some of those times really were jokes, but assuming that every single time probably hasn't helped me at all.

Whenever I think about girl's I've liked I get a cold feeling in my lower arms. For a time a few years ago I tried to force it and it didn't work so I assumed the times it did appear were just coincidences, but it's happening all the time now. Maybe I just pretend it's there because I thought I noticed it once.

I just wish my memory wasn't quite so good :smallfrown:


It could be that you are taking the game too seriously? It is meant to be fun, after all. :smallsmile:

I take every game too seriously. If I cry when losing ones that don't have any actual emotional involvement what hope do I have for romantic ones?

Sometimes I think that if I would just be the kind of possessive, jealous fellow that I hate then there's not much good a girlfriend would do for me anyway.

I wasted too much time thinking that getting a girlfriend would be the solution to all my emotional and mental problems. Lover-psychiatrist is a nice ideal but sometimes you need a proper psychiatrist. I have too many things I want out of a girl to see the girl for all the dissapointingly absent traits.

[snoopy13a]

I've started to wonder if I'm mentally incapable of believing women when they say they're interested in me. Surely at least some of those times really were jokes, but assuming that every single time probably hasn't helped me at all.

Whenever I think about girl's I've liked I get a cold feeling in my lower arms. For a time a few years ago I tried to force it and it didn't work so I assumed the times it did appear were just coincidences, but it's happening all the time now. Maybe I just pretend it's there because I thought I noticed it once.

I just wish my memory wasn't quite so good :smallfrown:

You've been beating yourself up too much.

This is what is happening when you are forcing yourself:
-You are probably coming across as awkward and too aggressive, thus women are rejecting you. You are internalizing this too much.

When it just seems a coincidence:
-As you aren't forcing anything, you are being relaxed and confident and therefore attractive to women. However, because you've internalized the rejections, you are incorrectly assuming the women are teasing you. Instead, they are actually interested in you.

I think you are coming on too strong. What you need is to adopt the relaxed persona that seems to be successful when you aren't trying at all. It is almost like a zen thing. In order to attract women, try not to seem too interested. If you don't look like Brad Pitt, coming on too strong usually backfires.

[loopy]

I take every game too seriously. If I cry when losing ones that don't have any actual emotional involvement what hope do I have for romantic ones?

Well, in that case, maybe your first step should be fostering a more laid back attitude towards life? :smallsmile:

Its easy to take things personally. Letting them go, a whole lot harder.

With a little effort, you can change anything about yourself, its all about the positive thinking in the end.

...Now I'm going to stop, before I sound increasingly like a self-help 'guru'.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You've been beating yourself up too much.

Evidently.


This is what is happening when you are forcing yourself:
-You are probably coming across as awkward and too aggressive, thus women are rejecting you. You are internalizing this too much.

When it just seems a coincidence:

I don't think you got what I was trying to say. I haven't said anything about coming on to women. I've never done that in my entire life.


However, because you've internalized the rejections, you are incorrectly assuming the women are teasing you. Instead, they are actually interested in you.

Possibly, but I've been doing this since longer than I've been that bothered about rejection. I didn't really bother with girls until I was 16 and I've been asked out since I was 12.


I think you are coming on too strong.

More or less, except without the actual "coming on" at all. Standing in the corner glowering because I can't think of anything to say has pretty much the same effect.


What you need is to adopt the relaxed persona that seems to be successful when you aren't trying at all. It is almost like a zen thing. In order to attract women, try not to seem too interested. If you don't look like Brad Pitt, coming on too strong usually backfires.

I know about that for so long it seems kind of too obvious to say.

Swan's looking gracefully when they're paddling really hard under water is the normal analogy.

[snoopy13a]

Ok, a great movie is The Tao of Steve.

It has three steps to attract women:


1.Eliminate your desires.
2.Do something excellent in her presence, thereby proving your sexual worthiness.
3.Retreat, for as Martin Heidegger said, "We pursue that which retreats from us".

[Castaras]

Closet: I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get advice on... is it just how to get women to like you, or is it how do you stop yourself from ignoring all women because some before have "come on to you" as a joke?

If it's the latter... All I can say is I'm exactly like you (except with men, being I'm a straight female). I realise now that my current boyfriend had to take ages to build up a strong friendship with me before he could admit he had a crush on me :smalltongue:.

Not sure how to help... Possibly you could try to work out, from your previous experience, what separated girls who truly liked you from those wanting to make fun of you. Not much, but would be a starting point.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Closet: I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get advice on...

Nothing, I'm just ranting because I can't be bothered to put my paints away and start watching the DVD I have to hand back in to the library tomorrow.

I just wanted to write about what I've been thinking about. It was just a toss up between here and the depression thread. It's easy to make the mistake that you had too nice a pair of parents to post in the depression thread.

I don't have any current relationship problems, just old wounds. Only girl I've met and Uni that I'm even vaguely interested in is taken, too experianced and a bit annoying. Doesn't take sage advice to know what to do about that one.

[Castaras]

ahh.

*gives liberal amount of hugs then*

[Faulty]

Ok, a great movie is The Tao of Steve.

It has three steps to attract women:

I think it's ridiculous to boil down 51% of the population into being able to be attracted to the exact some thing.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I think it's ridiculous to boil down 51% of the population into being able to be attracted to the exact some thing.

Only if you're talking about specific traits. There are genralised things that are set by evolution.

[Faulty]

Then the movie was made by an evolutionary biologist or psychologist, I hope.

[Phase]

Then the movie was made by an evolutionary biologist or psychologist, I hope.

Man, I'm totally going to write a self help book someday.

Step 47:
Strut about, making sure to accentuate your plumage. The female in question should be attracted immediately, barring another male (See Step 53). If she is not attracted, your genetic material or current level of environmental success is far too inferior. You have been Darwinised (See step 70).

[Pyrian]

Man, I'm totally going to write a self help book someday.You might as well. You can make a lot of money without knowing - nevermind proving - anything at all. :smalltongue:

[loopy]

You might as well. You can make a lot of money without knowing - nevermind proving - anything at all. :smalltongue:

I've even got my self-help 'motivational phrase' picked out.

I can't say it until I've got it copyrighted though, for it is awesome and will make me millions. :smallbiggrin:

[AtomicKitKat]

Alright, after a crappy night of tossing and turning in my sleep, I've isolated what bugged me much more than anything. It's that she would rather ignore me, hoping I go away, rather than just saying flat-out: "Go away." I know she doesn't have to, since she's already attached. I know it's the classic "don't want to hurt your feelings" by not saying it out loud, but the problem is this. At the end of the day, I'm still a guy. If you don't put it in black and white, the hints just don't register.

[xPANCAKEx]

Alright, after a crappy night of tossing and turning in my sleep, I've isolated what bugged me much more than anything. It's that she would rather ignore me, hoping I go away, rather than just saying flat-out: "Go away." I know she doesn't have to, since she's already attached. I know it's the classic "don't want to hurt your feelings" by not saying it out loud, but the problem is this. At the end of the day, I'm still a guy. If you don't put it in black and white, the hints just don't register.

you've put it in black and white for yourself

its about time you started listening

[AtomicKitKat]

you've put it in black and white for yourself

its about time you started listening

That's just it. I don't know how to put it any clearer. I can say it myself, but unless I tattoo it into my brain by repeating it 300 times a day, I don't think it's going to stick.:smallyuk:

[Coidzor]

^: Don't talk to her. Don't think about her. Wipe clean her name from your memory, using explosives if you have to.

Where do people keep pulling this idea of a lover-psychiatrist from anyway? It just sounds incredibly unhealthy and unpleasant for all involved. :smallconfused:

[AtomicKitKat]

^: Don't talk to her. Don't think about her. Wipe clean her name from your memory, using explosives if you have to.
Easier said than done, although each time it doesn't work out, the time to heal has gotten shorter.


Where do people keep pulling this idea of a lover-psychiatrist from anyway? It just sounds incredibly unhealthy and unpleasant for all involved. :smallconfused:

Moo? Was that directed at me or something?

[Coidzor]

Moo? Was that directed at me or something?

Someone earlier mentioned this as some kind of ideal and it reminded me of one of my friends' ideals of what he should be. *facepalm*

What level of employment are you in, anyway? I'd advise looking elsewhere for employment if it's just service level and it's putting you back in contact with her.

[AtomicKitKat]

Someone earlier mentioned this as some kind of ideal and it reminded me of one of my friends' ideals of what he should be. *facepalm*

What level of employment are you in, anyway? I'd advise looking elsewhere for employment if it's just service level and it's putting you back in contact with her.

Well, we're both in charge(read, working for, as opposed to owners) of different stores in the same mall. Our stores are almost directly facing each other(with a void space that plunges 3 storeys, or basically a ravine, between), but only because her employers expanded the store to take over the neighbouring space. Prior to that, her store faced away(The part that was the old store still does).

Edit: It's not that I can't find a new job(I'd rather do so than make her give up hers), it's just that all the offers I've gotten these past 2 years invariably want me to become some kind of "financial advisor/consultant/management", or basically, sell insurance/structured products. It may pay well(actually, it will probably pay crap unless I put aside my scruples and become ruthless), but I would never be comfortable with such a job.

[Coidzor]

Don't cross the ravine then. That seems easy enough.

[AtomicKitKat]

Don't cross the ravine then. That seems easy enough.

It's not hard to avoid the ravine. It's really not that hard to avoid her at all. I'll just have to stop looking out the shop window to avoid seeing her I guess.:smallfrown:

Edit: As regards the lover/psychiatrist role, I suspect it's what happens when one projects the "couple should be each others' pillars in the marriage" to the remainder of the relationship.

[Syka]

You do realize neither of you needs to or necessarily should quit your respective jobs, right?

All it requires is not associating with someone who is already across the ravine. Just think of that ravine as impassable now.

And mayhaps she's like me, where she gets really awkward with confrontation. Not too mention, she may have had a bad experience with it. I outright told a guy (twice, two months apart) that I would not date him. I said something along those lines, not mincing words. He kept pursuing. Each time he'd try pursuing me further, I'd find ways to avoid being around him until I was sure he was backing off. It only took two times of my doing that for him to FINALLY get the picture.


On how to attract women: it differs, you have to know the woman. Me? I hate games. I hate pursuing or being pursued. I want to be forward and blunt- to know where we stand. Games don't fly with me. Other girls I know, they love the games. I have girl friends who can't have a drama-free relationship. I can't have a drama-filled relationship.

Know the girl and know your limits. If you aren't willing to be played with yourself, don't play with someone else.

[AtomicKitKat]

You do realize neither of you needs to or necessarily should quit your respective jobs, right?

Yeah, I realise that, but I also realise that one of the things that was helping me make the day easier was feeling at least somewhat "needed" by her. As that's no longer the case, there's less holding me to this job now(as of right now, financial security, the customers whom I've become friends with, and easy access to modelling tools and accessories are pretty much the "good". Bad includes horribly demanding/unreasonable customers, pretty low pay, and being treated like a child by my boss, but the last one is primarily my own fault).


All it requires is not associating with someone who is already across the ravine. Just think of that ravine as impassable now.

Aside from the pesky bridge just 3m to the left... But yeah, I see the point you're trying to make.


And mayhaps she's like me, where she gets really awkward with confrontation. Not too mention, she may have had a bad experience with it. I outright told a guy (twice, two months apart) that I would not date him. I said something along those lines, not mincing words. He kept pursuing. Each time he'd try pursuing me further, I'd find ways to avoid being around him until I was sure he was backing off. It only took two times of my doing that for him to FINALLY get the picture.

Along those lines? I think most guys require you to just say flat-out "No. Stop. Leave me alone." For all the parts of me that are rather "unmanly", this is one part that is frustratingly masculine about me. If it's not explicitly verboten, it just doesn't "click". For your case, the guy may have just been the sort who enjoys "the chase".



On how to attract women: it differs, you have to know the woman. Me? I hate games. I hate pursuing or being pursued. I want to be forward and blunt- to know where we stand. Games don't fly with me. Other girls I know, they love the games. I have girl friends who can't have a drama-free relationship. I can't have a drama-filled relationship.

Know the girl and know your limits. If you aren't willing to be played with yourself, don't play with someone else.

Yup. Back to solitaire for me.:smallfrown:

[Syka]

I mean, I literally told him, "No. It will never happen. I cannot date you." I had told him to stop, and he didn't. It was...ridiculous. It wasn't until my last semester at the university I felt comfortable hanging out with him one-on-one (we would hang out at his church's dinner night), and I'd met him my first semester. I was there two years. It took at least a year of that to get him to back off, maybe more.

Then again, this is also the guy that would run to get doors, insist on walking on the street side of the sidewalk, and generally viewed women as childbearing tools (he did not agree with the Pill even for medical reasons, and he felt that it was totally justifiable for women to be paid less than a man for the same exact job because, and I quote, "they can get pregnant". Not will, CAN, a possibility. :smallannoyed:). Despite this highly offending me and him often talking down to me (resulting in my not speaking with him for a bit), he still thought we could do well together.

I eventually realized he was just. That. Desperate. He NEEDED a girlfriend, and it took him a while to accept that a girlfriend was the last thing he needed.

But yeah, I explicitly said no and to stop bringing it up and...it failed. It took avoiding him for him to give up.

[Faulty]

For all the parts of me that are rather "unmanly", this is one part that is frustratingly masculine about me. If it's not explicitly verboten, it just doesn't "click".

So you're saying guys need things spelled out in big bold letters because they're incapable of inductive reasoning or taking hints? Don't use your gender/sex as an excuse for having trouble with this, it's just going to make it more difficult for you to let it go.

[AtomicKitKat]

Around here, guys still get paid more, but I think that's more because every non-disabled young man is required to go through national service(which makes them lag behind in studies and careers). Someone once suggested that childbirth be viewed as a form of national service, to abolish this. I pointed out that we would then have to round up all women who did not have children(and were not medically exempted) as draft dodgers.:smalltongue:

Edit: Faulty: I dunno. I'm not trying to make excuses for it, but for whatever reason, maybe the way I was brought up, or the way my thinking goes(perhaps due to the way I was brought up), if it's not explicit, it doesn't work. Sort of a "the rules don't say I can't" thing.

[Faulty]

If you're aware of that, why not try and change it?

[AtomicKitKat]

If you're aware of that, why not try and change it?

Good question, but one that I don't have an easy answer to. I know that change requires a willingness to change, as well as action, but for some reason, maybe I just can't seem to figure out how to carry this out right now. Or I'm just too lazy to put the time into hypnotising myself into it.:smallfrown:

[Dracomorph]

I think it's ridiculous to boil down 51% of the population into being able to be attracted to the exact some thing.

But part 2 is both vague AND different by individual. It's hardly shoehorning if the unspoken part of your advice is "tailor your actions to the individual."

[Zeb The Troll]

apprehensious (why won't that word look right?!)Perhaps because the word you're looking for is "apprehensive"? :smallcool:

[Sipex]

I think there are a lot of reasons us guys are the way we are and a lot of them come from the bad dating advice and gender advice we get all throughout our childhood (ie: before we become legal adults). Only once we learn that much of what we know is false do we start to improve...sometimes this doesn't happen or we don't realise we've undergone this change so we actually act different than the advice we give out.

I believe I listed a lot of the information in the last thread actually.

[Syka]

Interesting thing: Oz viewed one of our friends as becoming domesticated. His reasoning? Said friend's girlfriend (also a friend of ours) was always at his apartment, and they'd make dinner and stuff.

"...You do realize I'm pretty much always at your house and we make dinner and stuff, right?"

"...but it's different, we're not normal!"

"..."

"You suck. :smalltongue:"

It was an amusing conversation. He took our 'domestication' fairly well, which probably stems from the fact he's actually OK with us moving in together when we finally move and/or have money to move out of our parent's homes. I still don't think we're domesticated (*snort of laughter*), I just think his view of domestication equates to the evolution of a 'normal' (ie, functional and healthy) relationship, for some reason. We have anything but a traditional relationship, we just have a healthy and functional one. :smallwink:

Oh, and is it bad that I'm more excited for my sisters pending nuptials than I ever would be for my own? (I have a feeling our nuptials will consist of deciding one day that we feel like getting married and just going to the courthouse during lunch or something.)

[xPANCAKEx]

AtomicKitKat

heres how you change:

first of all you suck it up - accept that the situations not panned out how you want it to. Accept that anything you do at this point will most likely make things worse. Possibly a lot worse infact (read worse as 'awkward'/'uncomfortable'/'less easy to deal with')

second - its not easy adapting your routine, making changes to the time/space she would normally occupy, but change will come eventually. Its not going to be an over night thing (especially not when it comes to time spent thinking about them) but change does come eventually

you've just got to stick at it and not throw your toys out of the pram simply because change doesn't happen overnight

syka

congratulations to your sister... but i know exactly what you mean. The idea of a one of those formal, big white church weddings.... yuck. I think it probably stems from my parents own marriage. They decided after about 6 years as a couple (and many years of living together) they wanted to have children, and my dad said if they were gunna have kids, why not get married - provide some stability to the situation. So they got engaged, got their marriage lisence, and sent out the invites.... something along the lines of "hey guys, we've decided to get married. If you want to attend that would be great. Oh by the way, we're broke, so if you could all bring a dish for the reception afterwards that would be great!". 3 weeks later they were married. Apparently the spread at the reception turned out to be bigger than a lot of formal weddings people have been too hah!

unconventional, but 28 years later they're still together and still very happy

to be fair, i think thats probably about the only kind of wedding i could bare to be involved in... if any at all

[AtomicKitKat]

Well, I managed to make it through 2/3 of the work day not interacting with her(although I caught myself sneaking glances at her reflection in the reflective supporting columns several times). Eventually, I messaged C(only have C's mobile, which is just as well, I guess), asking if we were going back to being strangers. She reassured me that we were still friends, just that B had a boyfriend. I then replied that I would still be willing to pick up lunch for them every now and then(I started out doing it as a courtesy to begin with any way). She said that would be fine. So hooray for my being overly paranoid. Also, to soften the suck of it being a new moon, I made an extra $10 on $20 worth of lotto shortly thereafter.:smallbiggrin:

[Sipex]

Congrats on handling things maturely, you are officially an adult. Your diploma will be mailed to you in 4-8 weeks.

That said, one last piece of advice from me. You sound like the type of guy who will look for a girlfriend in every girl he meets (who isn't tied down or related to you at least), I think this because you sound a lot like I used to and that's how I felt. That said, if you are that type of guy, in fact, if ANYONE READING THIS is that type of guy/girl stop it. Relationships will happen more naturally, you'll attract more people and you'll potentially have better relationships if you just look at everyone as a potential friend and let love run it's course (ie: you realise you actually like the person after befriending them).

[AtomicKitKat]

I'm working on that right now. I decided to risk the message hoping that I was at least not killing off yet another social contact. I think my current number of "active" social contacts, is somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen, compared to maybe half a dozen dozen(ie, 72), that I have lost/severed contact with over the years(mostly school/class/military mates), many times due to stuff that now seems pretty irrelevant(but in some cases were completely justified in that the person seemed to just feel better making me feel worse.).

[Syka]

syka

congratulations to your sister... but i know exactly what you mean. The idea of a one of those formal, big white church weddings.... yuck. I think it probably stems from my parents own marriage. They decided after about 6 years as a couple (and many years of living together) they wanted to have children, and my dad said if they were gunna have kids, why not get married - provide some stability to the situation. So they got engaged, got their marriage lisence, and sent out the invites.... something along the lines of "hey guys, we've decided to get married. If you want to attend that would be great. Oh by the way, we're broke, so if you could all bring a dish for the reception afterwards that would be great!". 3 weeks later they were married. Apparently the spread at the reception turned out to be bigger than a lot of formal weddings people have been too hah!

unconventional, but 28 years later they're still together and still very happy

to be fair, i think thats probably about the only kind of wedding i could bare to be involved in... if any at all

I definitely see the traditional thing working for my sister and C. It's just not my cup of tea for myself. I just see this one as a chance to get dressed up and embarrass the heck out of my sister at the bachelorette party (I'm the maid of honor :smallamused:). And I love the guy whose one their best men (C has two, I got to chose who to walk with), he's a cool cat and I can see us getting up to mischief at their wedding. :smallamused::smallamused:

I just don't want it. I either want nothing or married in a Las Vegas drive through by an Elvis impersonator. That's the closest I've ever gotten to wedding dreaming, lol.


Oh, and I'm going to make that suggestion to my mom about the food. We've been trying to figure out what we were going to do to feed everyone. Having people donate food is an awesome idea, since they are broke college students, my mom and I are on the upper end of poor (srsly), and I don't know how much his family is pitching in.

[Jalor]

I'm working on that right now. I decided to risk the message hoping that I was at least not killing off yet another social contact. I think my current number of "active" social contacts, is somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen, compared to maybe half a dozen dozen(ie, 72), that I have lost/severed contact with over the years(mostly school/class/military mates), many times due to stuff that now seems pretty irrelevant(but in some cases were completely justified in that the person seemed to just feel better making me feel worse.).
Oh, you sound like a bridge-burner, just like me. I have this habit of eliminating all ties with people who've caused me problems. I hardly ever have many friends at once because of it, but I do love the friends I have.

Whether or not this is a good thing depends on how often you meet new people and how long you stay in contact with individual people. I have a pretty long friend-lifespan, and I have enough extroverted friends to meet plenty of new people.

Meh, I suppose it's perfectly healthy for an introvert.

[skywalker]

Also, to soften the suck of it being a new moon, I made an extra $10 on $20 worth of lotto shortly thereafter.:smallbiggrin:

New advice: Stop playing lotto.


That said, one last piece of advice from me. You sound like the type of guy who will look for a girlfriend in every girl he meets (who isn't tied down or related to you at least), I think this because you sound a lot like I used to and that's how I felt. That said, if you are that type of guy, in fact, if ANYONE READING THIS is that type of guy/girl stop it. Relationships will happen more naturally, you'll attract more people and you'll potentially have better relationships if you just look at everyone as a potential friend and let love run it's course (ie: you realise you actually like the person after befriending them).

There is, of course, a difference from being open to the idea with (almost) everyone, and actively seeing it/pursuing it. Eh, I guess it wasn't necessary to bring this up. I just see myself as part of the second category, and for a moment I thought you were speaking to me.


I just don't want it. I either want nothing or married in a Las Vegas drive through by an Elvis impersonator. That's the closest I've ever gotten to wedding dreaming, lol.

I wouldn't mind either extreme of wedding. I do very well with pomp, circumstance, and tradition, but I don't require them. I would like for it to be appropriate to the time, people, and situation. I'm incredibly excited for my friends to get married, tho. Best man speeches, open-bar receptions with cute bridesmaids... WANT! :smallbiggrin:

Also on the topic of marriage, if my mate is ok with it, I'm not getting married until there are equal marriage (or union) rights for everyone in my country. Just my own personal torch, I guess. That said, if we want children and she won't have them without being married (I would be slightly apprehensive about this as well), then I might have to budge. I want those little ones something harsh.

[The Rose Dragon]

I need help with online dating sites.

I added this girl (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Nightwalker16) to my favorites about a week ago. Just as I was about to give up hope, turns out she added me to her favorites today.

And I have no idea what to say to her.

She isn't looking for dating, so I don't think I should push it there, but I want to say something good and I have no idea what.

Help?

[AtomicKitKat]

Jalor: Not so much a bridge-burner. It's just, if I have no real reason to talk to someone, they tend to fall off my radar. It just gets easier if they've caused me anguish.

Skywalker: Nah. If you never play, you will never win. And the thrill of the possibility of winning outweighs the pain of the probability of losing.:smalltongue:

[Dracomorph]

I need help with online dating sites.

I added this girl (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Nightwalker16) to my favorites about a week ago. Just as I was about to give up hope, turns out she added me to her favorites today.

And I have no idea what to say to her.

She isn't looking for dating, so I don't think I should push it there, but I want to say something good and I have no idea what.

Help?

"Hello" is usually a good start. [/sarcasm]

More seriously, ask how she is, and maybe one or two questions about some common interest you share, just to get a conversation going. If you don't know for certain of any common interests, ask about what you suspect might be one. Nothing too personal, you don't know each other yet, but shared interest is always a good baseline.

[xPANCAKEx]

Oh, and I'm going to make that suggestion to my mom about the food. We've been trying to figure out what we were going to do to feed everyone. Having people donate food is an awesome idea, since they are broke college students, my mom and I are on the upper end of poor (srsly), and I don't know how much his family is pitching in.

Do it! Some people may raise an eyebrow, and it may also not be fitting with what the bride and groom had in mind, but its worth suggesting. If your sister and C are the more laid back type they may be open to the unconventional approach. Apparently everyone involved really enjoyed themselves, and the reception was like a 'house party' as opposed to a stuffy, sit down dinner - people still bring up my mah and pahs wedding from time to time saying how much fun they had

i found out another interesting piece of trivia. My mother has had a life long dislike of wedding cake - so for mah/pahs wedding they wanted a wedding triffle. Yes... wedding TRIFLE. One of my dads best friends made it, and it went down a treat by all accounts.

another non-conventional wedding reception (this time one i was alive and able to attend) - the bride n groom hired out a museum with a recreation of a victorian era mining village. It was incredible. They served food from the fish n chip shop, all the guests could wander around town and speak to the staff (all in period costume), the meal was held in the pub garden and they had a 7 piece trad-jazz band as there wasn't any power outlets outside to power a PA! The museum even drove the guests from to the wedding and the reception in vintage 1930's double decker buses, and didn't charge the happy couple for it

so it goes to show - thinking outside the box can bring treasured memories

[Coidzor]

^: A potluck wedding with some rough divvying up certain... sorts of dishes between the attendees (which since they're being invited at least some of them there should be an idea of what they'd do)... Huh. That's an interesting idea. Certainly would give a more invested, connected feel to the guests.


I need help with online dating sites.

I added this girl (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Nightwalker16) to my favorites about a week ago. Just as I was about to give up hope, turns out she added me to her favorites today.

And I have no idea what to say to her.

She isn't looking for dating, so I don't think I should push it there, but I want to say something good and I have no idea what.

Help?

Well, from what I can gather she's an artist and a writer. So ask her about what she usually does there, what in particular she's up to these days in regards to that..

Maybe ask her if she wants to be a linguist or just enjoys learning the languages for their own sake or if she's even thought about linguistics?

[skywalker]

Skywalker: Nah. If you never play, you will never win. And the thrill of the possibility of winning outweighs the pain of the probability of losing.:smalltongue:

And what are your odds? And don't give me that crap about "Never tell me the odds..." you are not sitting at a table looking at cards, you are not Han Solo flying inside of an asteroid, you're standing there scratching a card and hoping the right numbers come up lol.

[Syka]

Originally my sister was all for the idea of cupcakes since one of her friends did that. Evidently in the last week or so they changed their mind to a traditional cake. :smallsigh:

I already warned her if she goes Bridezilla on me, I reserve the right to not be involved until she goes rational again. I'll still be in the wedding and the maid of honor, but I'm not going to interact with her if she's being a *ahem*. :smallwink: She's promised not to.

[Sipex]

The Rose Dragon: Just...say Hi. Talk to her. The suggestions given by others so far are all good.

That said, when I was dating I registered to a few sites (keep options open, meet people) and found nearly all the girls on there had their status set to 'Just meeting friends' sort of thing. At the time I was looking for someone interested in dating so I left them alone but now I feel as though that was the wrong approach.

Girls, if you've been on a dating site and done this were there any alternate reasons for it besides already being in a relationship or just looking for friends? I'm guessing it would keep the creepers at bay but I'd like some insight.

[The Rose Dragon]

Saying "hello" seems to be too bland, though. Not nearly witty and impressive enough.

[AtomicKitKat]

And what are your odds? And don't give me that crap about "Never tell me the odds..." you are not sitting at a table looking at cards, you are not Han Solo flying inside of an asteroid, you're standing there scratching a card and hoping the right numbers come up lol.

Actually, I would be writing numbers on a tab, hoping to get 6 numbers out of 45. I think it's 5 short-billion to one. In this case though, I just let the computer pick 40 sets of 6 numbers each. Technically, they draw 7 numbers out of 45, but if your combination(4, 5, or 6 numbers) requires the 7th number, it doesn't pay out nearly as much as if you had that many numbers without requiring the 7th.

But enough about my relationship with probability adrenaline. Back to human relationships!:smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Saying "hello" seems to be too bland, though. Not nearly witty and impressive enough.

*rolls eyes* Well, if you never say anything, that certainly won't impress her. Besides, it's far better to be more casual about the whole thing than trying to sweep her off her feet at your first communique.

[Quincunx]

Time to pick the brains of the traditionally protective males! My husband's one of them, you see. He'd rather I didn't walk by myself after dark. It's been some time since this has been a problem (when sunset occurs at 15:30 on a day husband is disinclined to walk, it's a problem), and yet I realize he has not thought through that, if I do get this job, walking home in the dark, at an hour when he'll be asleep, will be inevitable. I'll do it anyway, make no mistake about that; it is a short walk and mostly lit, which is a rarity here. However, is there some sort of concession I can offer to sugar that pill? Will the leash of a cell phone be sufficient?

[Cobra_Ikari]

Time to pick the brains of the traditionally protective males! My husband's one of them, you see. He'd rather I didn't walk by myself after dark. It's been some time since this has been a problem (when sunset occurs at 15:30 on a day husband is disinclined to walk, it's a problem), and yet I realize he has not thought through that, if I do get this job, walking home in the dark, at an hour when he'll be asleep, will be inevitable. I'll do it anyway, make no mistake about that; it is a short walk and mostly lit, which is a rarity here. However, is there some sort of concession I can offer to sugar that pill? Will the leash of a cell phone be sufficient?

Run it by him. He'd be the one best suited to tell you.

How far of a walk is it, anyway? >.>

*starts demanding Quin post an "I'm ok" every night when she gets home* >.> :smalltongue:

*huggles*

[Trog]

Time to pick the brains of the traditionally protective males! My husband's one of them, you see. He'd rather I didn't walk by myself after dark. It's been some time since this has been a problem (when sunset occurs at 15:30 on a day husband is disinclined to walk, it's a problem), and yet I realize he has not thought through that, if I do get this job, walking home in the dark, at an hour when he'll be asleep, will be inevitable. I'll do it anyway, make no mistake about that; it is a short walk and mostly lit, which is a rarity here. However, is there some sort of concession I can offer to sugar that pill? Will the leash of a cell phone be sufficient?
Well your husband sounds like he's concerned with your welfare. Ultimately you alone decide what to do with your time. Whether you acquiesce to another's will is ultimately your responsibility if you choose not to walk. All he can do is make the case for your safety. Likely he will worry too. You decide how much you feel is acceptable here. Tolerances vary from person to person.

Acknowledge that there is the possibility of risk (though in this case that risk is slight from what you said), agree to take a cell phone that you can use in case you need to call someone for help. Whether or not you had a husband that practice is good to do because it offers you another way to get help (assuming you are able to use it). The cell phone is for your own safety just like your voice is if you need to call out for help. Same situation with either sex, really.

Calling it a leash is only going to irritate him I would bet. If you are concerned he is going to be calling you to check up on you or something I'd say take any call he made to you with a grain of salt. He's likely calling because he's worried. If this continues beyond levels you are comfortable with shut off your ringer and later inform him that you turned it off because he was calling too much. If it continues do the same to him until he gets the picture. :smallamused:

As to the general risk we all take risks everyday. Driving a car is a risk, for example. If his assessment is much higher than yours it might cause difficulties. Maybe talk over the risks with him so you come to an agreement on what the actual level of risk really is.

[zeratul]

Time to pick the brains of the traditionally protective males! My husband's one of them, you see. He'd rather I didn't walk by myself after dark. It's been some time since this has been a problem (when sunset occurs at 15:30 on a day husband is disinclined to walk, it's a problem), and yet I realize he has not thought through that, if I do get this job, walking home in the dark, at an hour when he'll be asleep, will be inevitable. I'll do it anyway, make no mistake about that; it is a short walk and mostly lit, which is a rarity here. However, is there some sort of concession I can offer to sugar that pill? Will the leash of a cell phone be sufficient?

Do you live in a particularly bad area crime wise? Assuming you don't live in South Syracuse or something you could probably try reassuring him by telling him about the low/average crime rate or something similar.

[xPANCAKEx]

Time to pick the brains of the traditionally protective males! My husband's one of them, you see. He'd rather I didn't walk by myself after dark. It's been some time since this has been a problem (when sunset occurs at 15:30 on a day husband is disinclined to walk, it's a problem), and yet I realize he has not thought through that, if I do get this job, walking home in the dark, at an hour when he'll be asleep, will be inevitable. I'll do it anyway, make no mistake about that; it is a short walk and mostly lit, which is a rarity here. However, is there some sort of concession I can offer to sugar that pill? Will the leash of a cell phone be sufficient?

just make fun of him for being concerned - that will shut him up

but he's expressed his concern, and thats healthy, but just get on with things regardless - its not like walking home will kill you. Hes over-reacting. You are a grown woman after all

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't really think he's over-reacting(unless, like you said, the sun sets at 3 in the afternoon). I'd say having a cell phone with you is a decent *searches for the word* compromise(not what I mean, I think, but if it comes to me, I'll edit it in). At the least, be prepared for him to make you pick up something to eat on the way back(well, that's what we do with our phones in our house. Last person to return is obliged to check if anyone home needs supper). Carrying a working phone at all times is also a good idea when walking in the dark. It takes only a couple seconds to unlock and dial. Conversely, I think it takes about 6 seconds to get close enough to disable someone(barring exceptional levels of Hide/Move Silently by the disabler).

[Cobra_Ikari]

In thinking about it, there's really no good reason you SHOULDN'T have a cell on you, but then, there's not really any reason he would need to call you on it? It's more something you should have in case you need to emergency contact someone/ be contacted in an emergency. If you decide this route, though, make it clear that "check-up" calls are not to be tolerated?

Dunno. This is all suggestion, anyway.

I will say I felt the same way when I dated a girl who had to walk quite a ways home at midnight every night, but I only called to check up on her if she was really, really late in coming home. Because I do worry. >.>

*huggles*

[loopy]

Aaand in other news, apparently my quoting Twilight once in a non-ironic manner won me the heart of a quite attractive girl, which both:

-Justifies the existance of the series*.
-Further destroys my faith in humanity. :smallwink:

*Yes, my own personal gain is a valid reason for something to exist. :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

Aaand in other news, apparently my quoting Twilight once in a non-ironic manner won me the heart of a quite attractive girl, which both:

-Justifies the existance of the series*.
-Further destroys my faith in humanity. :smallwink:

*Yes, my own personal gain is a valid reason for something to exist. :smalltongue:
...wow. I didn't think such an act was possible. :smalleek: Non-ironic Twilight that is

You continue to amaze me sir!

[Coidzor]

It's about on par with using Jane Austen to woo, only, y'know, the quality of the writing is a lot lower.

[Syka]

If a guy actually used Jane Austen to woo me, I'd be very, very impressed. Actually, Jane Austen, Bram Stoker, Mary Shelley, Robert Louis Stevenson, any of the classic authors. Bonus points for classic horror authors. I'm a sucker for a guy who knows his literature (which explains why I'm with Oz...he had me at "everyone should eat babies" :smallbiggrin:).

Twilight? Not so much. It's a fad right now, so finding someone who hasn't read/seen/knows the whole plot anyway of the series isn't that difficult. Even OZ has seen part of the movie, 'cause his parents rented it, and he knows the whole plot from me ranting about it, lol.

Either way, good job loopy. Enough girls out there are obsessed with it that it was bound to happen. Quote Twilight enough, particularly saying you identify with Edward, will probably get you many females for your harem. :smallwink:

[snoopy13a]

...wow. I didn't think such an act was possible. :smalleek: Non-ironic Twilight that is

You continue to amaze me sir!

Twilight is extremely popular in mainstream culture. Many of my female relatives love it and post stuff about it on Facebook. Most other people, such as myself, simply don't care either way about it. Only a small group of people actively hate it. It stands to reason that someone would be more successful quoting Twilight than bashing it.

[Sipex]

I don't think I'd ever try quoting Twilight to impress a girl.

She might try to take me to watch them after.

[loopy]

Either way, good job loopy. Enough girls out there are obsessed with it that it was bound to happen. Quote Twilight enough, particularly saying you identify with Edward, will probably get you many females for your harem. :smallwink:

Oh, trust me, that book was a goldmine for tall, pale, nocturnal, dark haired guys like me.

"So, if you turned me into a vampire, what power do you reckon I'd get?"
*gets glomped* :smallbiggrin:


Twilight is extremely popular in mainstream culture. Many of my female relatives love it and post stuff about it on Facebook. Most other people, such as myself, simply don't care either way about it. Only a small group of people actively hate it. It stands to reason that someone would be more successful quoting Twilight than bashing it.

And I found one of my gorgeous best friends, Gemma, by bashing Twilight mercilessly.

I'll use the tools I've been given. :smallamused:

Be warned. :smalltongue:

[Cobra_Ikari]

Oh, trust me, that book was a goldmine for tall, pale, nocturnal, dark haired guys like me.

"So, if you turned me into a vampire, what power do you reckon I'd get?"
*gets glomped* :smallbiggrin:



And I found one of my gorgeous best friends, Gemma, by bashing Twilight mercilessly.

I'll use the tools I've been given. :smallamused:

Be warned. :smalltongue:

You...you tricksy fiend! D=

*loopy jealousy meter rises*

=P

[Coidzor]

Yes, except you get enough tail that you don't care about that one more is hardly an accomplishment worthy of praise.

Find yourself a husbanded and so shall a play be composed that here lie loopy: the married man.

[Dracomorph]

Aaand in other news, apparently my quoting Twilight once in a non-ironic manner won me the heart of a quite attractive girl, which both:

-Justifies the existance of the series*.
-Further destroys my faith in humanity. :smallwink:

*Yes, my own personal gain is a valid reason for something to exist. :smalltongue:

These are both valid responses, and I support them as reactions to this phenomenon.

I'm planning to take advantage of it myself, and I find the books painful to even start to read. If things go as planned, I'm going to let 4 girls dress me up as Edward for the New Moon movie premier in November. I just hope they have enough body glitter.

[snoopy13a]

These are both valid responses, and I support them as reactions to this phenomenon.

I'm planning to take advantage of it myself, and I find the books painful to even start to read. If things go as planned, I'm going to let 4 girls dress me up as Edward for the New Moon movie premier in November. I just hope they have enough body glitter.

That's worth it if the plan works. Now if the plan fails... :smalltongue:

[Syka]

...

I rue the day when convincing a guy to dress up as Edward is the new "convincing a guy to dress up like Rocky" (not Rocky Balboa, Rocky from RHPS). :smalltongue:

I'm still working on getting Oz to do that. I had a willing victim previously but it fell through, lol.

[Coidzor]

Wait... Aren't the two of you? ...So why does he object to you wrapping him up in gold lame?

[Syka]

He refuses to watch past the beginning of RHPS. It makes me sad. On many levels. :smallfrown:

I almost talked one of my friends into doing Frankenfurter last year. *evil grin*

[Coidzor]

How curious, does he offer any explanation or does he react as a man possessed?

[Syka]

I'm really not sure why he won't, beyond it just skeeves him out. *shrug* It's not threatening his masculinity or anything, he's secure in that. Neither of us have issues appreciating the same sex in regards to attractiveness, so it's not that. It's quite odd.

I consoled myself with the fact that I got him to watch (and thoroughly enjoy) Monty Python skits. That's the deal breaker there. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

What an odd fellow, that he had to be so coaxed into Python.

And that he won't even tell you what bothers him about the thing if he's never seen it.

[loopy]

Find yourself a husbanded and so shall a play be composed that here lie loopy: the married man.

A husband? :smallconfused:

[Pyrian]

...it just skeeves him out.It is skeevey. :smallyuk: Still, even I've watched the whole thing through.

[Coidzor]

Find yourself husbanded off to a pretty little thing with mouth and mind full of that sweet little "L" word, four letters in the saying.

That will be a sight to see, but not to sore the eye but to impress all with sincerity and above all, rarity of such a union.

For rare and fair would such a maid be as to blush as your bride.

[Syka]

What an odd fellow, that he had to be so coaxed into Python.

And that he won't even tell you what bothers him about the thing if he's never seen it.

It wasn't coaxed as much as he was embarrassed he'd never seen it growing up so when it came up in conversations, he never mentioned that fact. When I found out, we rented Holy Grail and watched some skits online. In all fairness, until him I'd never gotten around to seeing any Indian Jones movie all the way through.

I think he's told me, at least vaguely, I just don't remember. He's seen part of it, I think the first half. He just doesn't want to see the rest. Can't really fault him, there are some things I don't feel like watching either (I couldn't make it through Clockwork Orange).

[Cobra_Ikari]

It wasn't coaxed as much as he was embarrassed he'd never seen it growing up so when it came up in conversations, he never mentioned that fact. When I found out, we rented Holy Grail and watched some skits online. In all fairness, until him I'd never gotten around to seeing any Indian Jones movie all the way through.

I think he's told me, at least vaguely, I just don't remember. He's seen part of it, I think the first half. He just doesn't want to see the rest. Can't really fault him, there are some things I don't feel like watching either (I couldn't make it through Clockwork Orange).

I have been told that the original Indiana Jones Trilogy is like a good sausage: your first one is always the best.

I think that's a pretty nifty saying, too. >.>

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Making me wanna chop up some brauts there, Cobesy. :smalltongue:

[xPANCAKEx]

loopy

i might try and copy your technique - only one problem though. To quote twilight i'd have to read twilight. The plan all goes to pot from there really :smallwink:

[loopy]

loopy

i might try and copy your technique - only one problem though. To quote twilight i'd have to read twilight. The plan all goes to pot from there really :smallwink:

Try my other tactic then: "Hi!" Followed by friendly conversation and random banter.

It rarely fails. :smallsmile:

[xPANCAKEx]

Try my other tactic then: "Hi!" Followed by friendly conversation and random banter.

It rarely fails. :smallsmile:

lately my tactic has been saying hello, then being incredibly rude - its time honoured rarely fails too! Although i was horrifically pleasant to a girl last friday ( i don;t know what came over me)

me and you should write a dating advice book - could call it "naughty and nice" or something cliche to get the marking up! Our subtitle would have to be at least 60 words long to really up the pretentiousness value, and no word would be less than 3 syllabals

[skywalker]

but he's expressed his concern, and thats healthy, but just get on with things regardless - its not like walking home will kill you. Hes over-reacting. You are a grown woman after all

No, walking home won't kill you. The guy walking behind you with a knife will. I know you are British, pancake, and I know Quin is as well. And I know attitudes are a bit different across the pond. I say it's foolish for a woman to walk home alone and unarmed after dark, even with a cell phone. Because pancake is right, you're a grown woman. Even a grown woman is typically incapable of defending herself against the average grown man a woman needs defending against. This is not sexism, it is scientific fact. To not account for one's obvious disadvantages is silly.

Regardless, I am unlikely to talk you into actively preparing to defend yourself, and your options for doing so effectively in your area are woefully limited. I wouldn't see the cell phone as a "leash," do you not want a protective husband? Ah, whatever.


It takes only a couple seconds to unlock and dial. Conversely, I think it takes about 6 seconds to get close enough to disable someone(barring exceptional levels of Hide/Move Silently by the disabler).

6 seconds? Where did you acquire this arbitrary number? In the American self-defense community, we put a lot of stock in the 21 foot rule (http://www.trailerparkshow.com/selfdefense3.html) as an indicator of just how quickly something can go wrong in a situation. From "oh, that guy looks suspicious" to having a knife at your throat in the time it takes you to count "One Mississippi, two."


I'll use the tools I've been given. :smallamused:

Be warned. :smalltongue:

I am well-warned. If you ever come to the US, steer clear of Tennessee. You will find there are plenty of shotgun-wielding fathers (and brothers, in my case :smalltongue:) who will not take kindly to your silver-tongued devilry. :smallwink:

My dad just took away all my sister's Twilight books, actually.

[xPANCAKEx]

No, walking home won't kill you. The guy walking behind you with a knife will. I know you are British, pancake, and I know Quin is as well. And I know attitudes are a bit different across the pond. I say it's foolish for a woman to walk home alone and unarmed after dark, even with a cell phone. Because pancake is right, you're a grown woman. Even a grown woman is typically incapable of defending herself against the average grown man a woman needs defending against. This is not sexism, it is scientific fact. To not account for one's obvious disadvantages is silly.


yes i forgot there MIGHT be man with a knife. damn... better stay at home. :smallsigh:

i really suggest you track down a book called "risk" and re-assess your thinking. Some of us like to live our lives not crippled by fear

[Tiger Duck]

My tactic of meeting new peoples: look as interesting as possible, smile a lot, and wait till they ask you why you are so happy.

of core like I posted on the first page of this tread. The moment I realise they like me like me, I become something bordering on a sociopath till they write me of.

[loopy]

lately my tactic has been saying hello, then being incredibly rude - its time honoured rarely fails too! Although i was horrifically pleasant to a girl last friday ( i don;t know what came over me)

me and you should write a dating advice book - could call it "naughty and nice" or something cliche to get the marking up! Our subtitle would have to be at least 60 words long to really up the pretentiousness value, and no word would be less than 3 syllabals

We could then branch out into self-help books of all stripes! :smallbiggrin:

...World domination to follow. :smallsmile:


I am well-warned. If you ever come to the US, steer clear of Tennessee. You will find there are plenty of shotgun-wielding fathers (and brothers, in my case :smalltongue:) who will not take kindly to your silver-tongued devilry. :smallwink:

My dad just took away all my sister's Twilight books, actually.

I rarely make the mistake of straying into the sight (or line-of-fire) of family members. :smallwink:

Besides, a lot of my 'charm' plays off being a nice guy. :smallsmile:

Edit: Captain Happy, strange, sociopathy seems to work for me... Unless you want an actual 'relationship'. *shrugs*

[Sipex]

I don't agree with your thinking what with the "It might be dangerous so you shouldn't risk it" approach it seems you have skywalker but that link you posted was really informative.

[skywalker]

yes i forgot there MIGHT be man with a knife. damn... better stay at home. :smallsigh:

Did I say "stay home?" No, I don't think I did.


i really suggest you track down a book called "risk" and re-assess your thinking. Some of us like to live our lives not crippled by fear

Who's it by? I'm having trouble finding it.

You're really projecting a lot of beliefs onto me, by the way. I could just as easily say "some of us like to live our lives not asleep." Or something similar. But to be aware is not to be afraid. I never said I was afraid of anything.

[Coidzor]

yes i forgot there MIGHT be man with a knife. damn... better stay at home. :smallsigh:

Hmm... It seems that would be loopy, then. :smalltongue:


Captain Happy, strange, sociopathy seems to work for me... Unless you want an actual 'relationship'. *shrugs*

Hence why I said your crass couplings are as impressive to me as a bird's flight, what was made for ought but its function needs must exceed it to be worth noting.

[Syka]

I think it's silly to think walking alone at night will always be safe for a woman, but I also think it's silly to think it's always dangerous. Your best bet is evaluating your situation REALISTICALLY. The two areas I've lived are both at risk for elevated crime due to location (college town and tourist area), but also lower risk in that both were fairly well off areas.

When there were attacks near where I lived (one was two blocks from my home, another time there were 5 rapes within a mile of where I lived in one week), I made sure to be even more vigilant then. As is, my policy is to just not go walking alone after dark. I will not hesitate to walk in pairs or go out after dark, I just don't go out alone in sparsely populated areas (trust me, where I live is pretty sparse after about 8pm) alone after dark. My general rule is pairs.

Quin, couldn't you see if any coworkers would be willing to give you a lift home? I know all the people I work with are willing to give each other rides if they need it, particularly if they would otherwise be walking home alone- guy OR girl. It's always been like that at my jobs.

[Sequinox]

I've even got my self-help 'motivational phrase' picked out.

I can't say it until I've got it copyrighted though, for it is awesome and will make me millions. :smallbiggrin:

I know it!

'Don't suck.'

[xPANCAKEx]

Did I say "stay home?" No, I don't think I did.


no - but if you're saying women are so 'handicapped' by their gender when it comes to their safety that they should be escorted everywhere then they might as just stay indoors




Who's it by? I'm having trouble finding it.

You're really projecting a lot of beliefs onto me, by the way. I could just as easily say "some of us like to live our lives not asleep." Or something similar. But to be aware is not to be afraid. I never said I was afraid of anything

i'll get you the author - its a pretty good insight into how scare mongering plays an influence on a lot of peoples thinking.

[loopy]

I know it!

'Don't suck.'

WRONG! Sometimes sucking is required. :P

[Dallas-Dakota]

''Rave, just rave all night long without a care in the world, just rave''

:smalltongue:

[loopy]

''Rave, just rave all night long without a care in the world, just rave''

:smalltongue:

Sounds like an excellent philosophy, but wrong! :smallbiggrin:

[Moonshadow]

...gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

she's decided to open up a little and let me behind her walls and give me a chance.

Then she decided to ask me to dinner and hopefully a movie at her house this coming friday :smalleek: :smalleek:


:eek:

[Pyrian]

Good luck, Naoto! :smallcool:

[Coidzor]

Remember though. Set up with a friend to check in after an hour or two and they know where you're going and to delete and destroy all of your cp so that you avoid having a hard candy pulled on you.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The only way I meet new people is if they take the initiative.

It's not like I talk to the people I already know, so knowing more people would be redundant.

[AtomicKitKat]

Go for it Naoto!:smallsmile:

[Dracomorph]

@Naoto: That's great! Dinner and movies is always good times.

Remember not to read too much into this, and enjoy yourself.

[Moonshadow]

I feel strangly unstressed and barely nervous about it.

Good things are happening, I think :smallsmile:

[Jokasti]

That's good :smallsmile:

[skywalker]

no - but if you're saying women are so 'handicapped' by their gender when it comes to their safety that they should be escorted everywhere then they might as just stay indoors

Not by their gender, by their sex. Biologically. By some trick of God, evolution, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Not by something society consciously did, altho I suppose society/culture has had some minor impact on evolution by now. Sorry to nitpick but it makes all the difference in the case of where I'm coming from. This is not about gender roles. This is not about women staying in their place (frankly, you seem to be trying to stick these words in my mouth, and I don't like it). What I said was a response to the lunacy of telling someone that it's okay to behave in a potentially dangerous way solely because she (and you?) want to spit in the face of a gender-bias that may or may not even be at play here. I was trying to explain that the attitudes of some people come not from a gender-bias but from the objective observation that females (for which I used the term women or woman at the time) are typically physically less capable than males (or men) and therefore at a disadvantage in a physical struggle.

[Pyrian]

You don't seem to grasp yet that the fact that women are, on average, somewhat less strong than men has nothing to do with the reason why your patronizing attitude is problematic. What has been objectionable about your posts is your implicit assumption that women are inherently inadequate at assessing their own acceptable level of risk.

The fact that Quincunx might be marginally less safe walking around at night than you are does not give you any right to tell her what level of risk should be acceptable to her.

BTW, your average unarmed man doesn't have much better chances than your average unarmed woman, anyway. Hooray, you're slightly stronger, and they've got a gun. Good luck with that.

[AtomicKitKat]

BTW, your average unarmed man doesn't have much better chances than your average unarmed woman, anyway. Hooray, you're slightly stronger, and they've got a gun. Good luck with that.

We don't all live in countries where guns are easily available... Remember though, sound travels faster than any man. When in doubt, scream for fire(I read somewhere that it's more effective than screaming rape).

[Dallas-Dakota]

Not to mention that it'l probably weird out/distract the ''rapist'' for a second or two, if not more.

[Serpentine]

Trog said it already, and very well too, but just to repeat:
Even a grown woman is typically incapable of defending herself against the average grown man a woman needs defending against.A grown woman is also apparently incapable of making her own logical decisions.

I'm walking home tonight, and it'll probably be dark before I get there. There's not much lighting on the way. OH NOES, GONNA GET RAPED! =O
Considering the weird stuff that's been happening in Armidale in the last couple of years (one guy decapitated, one threatened a cop with a knife and was shot dead, two guys bashed a friend of mine, a murder-suicide, a mysterious scream, a jewellery heist), this probably isn't the all-round safest place to be. But there's hardly hardened criminals here, I've left my wallet in my housemate's car so I don't have much to steal, and I'll always be within earshot and running-distance of a house, so I'm not too worried. Guys getting jumped and bashed or into a brawl and bashed is far more of an issue.
And, of course, the physical difference between men and women isn't exactly huge. Not everyone gets a -2 penalty, and that -1 to the modifier is hardly massive.

[Arutema]

As for assaults, the fact that the attacker has a weapon and you don't is far more likely to swing the balance than a simple matter of gender.

Also, how safe is the area? Some places I wouldn't go for a walk at night.

[Zeb The Troll]

And, of course, the physical difference between men and women isn't exactly huge. Not everyone gets a -2 penalty, and that -1 to the modifier is hardly massive.I don't want to start a war here, but my understanding is that you're somewhat understating the actual physiological difference. Men are typically heavier due to being taller and having more densely packed muscle. Combine this with higher levels of testosterone and the fact that men typically have larger hearts and lungs to more efficiently fuel the muscle they do have. If memory serves, this leads to men being on average 30% stronger than women. This is born out by the fact that, even amongst the highly athletic, women simply can not adequately compete with men in contests of strength and endurance. Look at weighlifting, track and field, marathons, et cetera. Men hold the record in all of these. That's why men's and women's records are maintained seperately. Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_weightlifting). Compare the 69kg bracket (it's the only one that directly matches up). Now look at the men's 62kg bracket and note that even the top women's bracket only marginally beats it. If you look up various running events in any distance you'll see a similar trend.

This is also why mens and womens standards for physical fitness are not the same in the military, where an exceptional score on the womens scale is a failing score on the mens (Compare - an 18 year old woman running two miles in 16 minutes puts her in the 95th percentile, while an 18 yo man running the same time will have failed. The same woman does 41 pushups in two minutes, placing her in the 97th percentile, again the same man fails.)

It is this biological difference that led to the misguided perception that women need men to care for them. While it may have been true centuries ago when the differences were even greater, it most certainly is not today. But that is turning out to be a hard habit to break, societally speaking.

Note that I do not dispute the idea that women can and should be able to decide for themselves how much risk is acceptable when trying to get from point A to point B. On the other hand, sometimes an offer to escort a girl home from somewhere is just an excuse to spend some alone time with her and has no real bearing on her need for defense. :smallcool:

[Quincunx]

I didn't bring this up right away since I escalated it into a full-out argument the last time (the 15:30 incident ((back in northern Sweden)) ) and was hoping someone had an experience which was better than the cell phone for safety; the cell phone is peace of mind on one end, not safety on the other. Shift changes at the job I hope to get would allow for an escorted walk home, but not for some others.

[AtomicKitKat]

On the other hand, sometimes an offer to escort a girl home from somewhere is just an excuse to spend some alone time with her and has no real bearing on her need for defense. :smallcool:

Note to self: Zeb knows too much and must be neuralised.:smallcool: To be fair though, it was only till the bus-stop, and half the way was spent on meaningless chit-chat on my part.:smalltongue:

[Myrmex]

yes i forgot there MIGHT be man with a knife. damn... better stay at home. :smallsigh:

Or worse- dropbears!

I think it's hilarious how a poor wittle woman is sooo indefensible vs. a man with a knife, yet another man somehow isn't. A woman is at risk because of bad men targeting her gender, not because of disparities in strength. It's not like mr. internet tough guy is going to be able to do much about the guy with the knife, either. Roundhouse kick the knife out of his hand, then throat punch! Yeah, right.

[karnokoto]

I dunno about you guys, but around here, guys get mugged. Girls don't.
And nobody gets raped except for in downtown near Stanley Park at night.
Around my house, there sits, 24/7, an unmarked police car, because the park which I am situated behind is a local hotspot for drug deals.
Potential for bad juju, right?
Not really. They're highschoolers.

Yet I still can't walk 4 blocks to Tim Hortons for a freakin coffee & a cruller at midnight because I'm a woman. Seriously.

What Pyrian said is pretty much /thread here.
Your ability to lift heavy things and win arm wrestles mean squat when the other guy has a knife.

Protip though: Ladies! When you're walking by yourself at night, talk on your cellphone. The entire time. Or pretend to, it doesn't matter. NO ONE will approach you if you do, regardless of setting.

[Serpentine]

For the sake of honesty, I didn't end up walking home in the dark. I left too late, so I caught a taxi. 'course, that said, there's been a spate of taxi drivers raping women (though only in Sydney that I've heard).

[xPANCAKEx]

ok - let me put this in context

a few years ago, i fell into the 'worst' group of all:

white
male
aged 18-23

as far as crime stats here in the UK, thats the group most at risk from violent assault and robbery (and that includes regional fluctuations). stats-wise just for comparison Women are at a higher risk of sexual assault, but a FAR lower percentage risk of overall crime. Now thats 5 years of my life where i was in the high risk group. not just "a" high risk group, but THE high risk group. I could have stayed indoors... but that would have been 5 years of my life crippled by fear.

Should i have been crippled by fear and stayed in too?

Although if i'd thought about dropbears at the time i'd have shat myself and installed a nuclear bunker! they terrorfy me :smalleek:

[Phaedra]

Protip though: Ladies! When you're walking by yourself at night, talk on your cellphone. The entire time. Or pretend to, it doesn't matter. NO ONE will approach you if you do, regardless of setting.

I was always warned never to do this, actually. If you're actually talking to someone it means you're distracted from the sounds around you - the same reason you generally shouldn't wear an iPod or anything while walking alone. Even if you're just pretending, you're still advertising the fact that you have a phone to the world, which is a good way to get that phone stolen. It's not unknown to have people just take it from your hand while you're talking on it.

All that said, I generally agree with you, Pyrian and all the others pointing out that the risk of being mugged/attacked is generally very low and any height/weight benefit a man has will be cancelled out by the other guy's weapon. Ultimately, male or female, you're pretty unlikely to actually win a fight with an assailant. Happily, murderers/rapists are very rare and a mugger will leave you alone if you just give him your stuff. Seriously, it's just your money. Cancel your bank cards and move on with your life.

[AtomicKitKat]

I think part of the attitude is due to the fact that while a guy could be more likely to be beaten up, or killed, or robbed, than a woman is likely to be raped, a rape is viewed as being far more serious. Material stuff can be replaced, guys provoke fights "all the time", but yeah, you can't exactly "un-rape" someone.

[Trog]

I didn't bring this up right away since I escalated it into a full-out argument the last time (the 15:30 incident ((back in northern Sweden)) ) and was hoping someone had an experience which was better than the cell phone for safety; the cell phone is peace of mind on one end, not safety on the other. Shift changes at the job I hope to get would allow for an escorted walk home, but not for some others.
Ah. Hmm... well as for defense you can take with you the only things immediately coming to mind is, in a pinch, you can put your keys in between your fingers. If you need to punch someone it does a lot more damage (I have a friend who still has the scars I gave him using this method, for example... Don't ask. :smalltongue: ). Not the world's greatest defense, obviously. A taser also comes to mind (cue taser argument which seems to happen every time tasers are brought up). But honestly the best defense I can think of riding a bike home instead. You're much more mobile and you pass by any undesirables much faster. I dunno. Hope that gives you some ideas. =/

[AtomicKitKat]

Key-shiv is good. Also, watching Youtube self-defense. You may not actually know how to carry it out the same way, but at least it gives you a starting point(and an excuse to hurt male friends:smalltongue:). By far the most useful one(and potentially crippling) I found was stamping through the kneecap when grabbed from behind.

[Quincunx]

The bike was an excellent suggestion. Not your fault I live on a valleyside earmarked for professional bike races (ok, that race course was a few streets over, but the slope is the same). :smalltongue:

[Jack Squat]

The benefit of talking on a cellphone is that if something happens, someone will know. The downside is that you're not paying as much attention to your surroundings. If you don't focus on the conversation, it's not that big of a downside, but it's still a distraction. If you talk on the phone or not, it's up to you.

On self-defense tactics. Don't rely on them. Or rather, don't assume you can rely on them. I know "martial artists" who have completely frozen up when attacked. Heck, a woman my parents knew was a black belt and a cop and completely froze up when grabbed by a mugger/rapist. The guy was scared off when her two friends (also black belts) had walked by and saw what was happening. Just because you know how to fight doesn't mean you can. Make dead sure what is the case for you before you decide whether or not you want to confront an assailant or throw your wallet and run.

If you do decide on self defense, a key-chain kubaton is a nice option if legal in your area, but at the very least, like Trog said, you can stick your keys between your knuckles. A pen or pencil can work in place of a kubaton.

Pepper spray/tasers/stun guns are another option, but I personally don't like them. They don't work on everyone (nothing does really), and they require a little more training and upkeep than I like for such little gain.

No matter what option you choose (even if it's the Nike Defense), train yourself enough that you know you can rely on it when you need it.

Other options include ASP batons, pistols, tear gas, and dating Jason Bourne. Each one has advantages and disadvantages, I'll let you do the research. Alternatively, I can be PMed if you're really curious about my take on options, or want to debate this. In the meantime though, I think I'm gonna try and let this thread stray back to RW&A.

[Trog]

The bike was an excellent suggestion. Not your fault I live on a valleyside earmarked for professional bike races (ok, that race course was a few streets over, but the slope is the same). :smalltongue:
Ouch. I take it you'd be riding home uphill, not downhill then (Uphill! Both ways!)? Biking up steep hills sucks. I lived at the base of a large bluff and growing up and even when I was a kid with a lot more energy I had a hard time making it up the last part of my street that begins to climb up it. Plus, you know, winter and snow and such make biking difficult to impossible.

Maybe invest in a scooter? That would solve the hill climbing issue though not the winter issue. Plus it brings up the problem of paying for a scooter and all. Hmm... Or maybe hire some big burly guy to give you piggyback rides. Or a big burly guy and a rickshaw. Oooo! Yeah, on second thought go for the rickshaw! The less contact with big burly guy sweat the better. :smalltongue:

[Syka]

One tip I got was have something large, like an umbrella, with you. It makes you less of a target because you have something with Reach. Keys between the knuckles is fail in a knife/gun fight. I have also heard the whole "Don't talk on your cell or listen to a music player" because it distracts you. Presumably, if you use the cell phone to have someone else on the other line rather than talking and are still paying attention to your surroundings, it would be beneficial.

[AtomicKitKat]

Yeah, umbrella is pretty good in any case where the assailant did not sneak up behind you(and even then, a stab to the foot may be all you need to break free). The long type is more conspicuous(and thus a better visual deterrant), but the collapsible sort works well like those telescoping batons we use in the military(and obviously, more of a surprise factor). Even better if you can master the flick of the wrist method of extending it. Either way, in the event that you do hit your attacker, don't stop. The biggest mistake would be to hurt them one time, and then run. Hit them until they can no longer fight back/retrieve their weapon(better if you take the distraction to move their weapon out of reach or confiscate it). As long as your attack is aimed at their arms/legs and not their head, the likelihood of you committing manslaughter(no jury would ever allow a murder charge to stick, and even in countries where the judge is the sole arbitrator, it is unlikely to go up to murder) is next to nil(unless the perp had a heart condition, in which case he should have picked a lower stress "job").

Now, back to RW&A.

[Dragonrider]

Yeah, umbrella is pretty good in any case where the assailant did not sneak up behind you(and even then, a stab to the foot may be all you need to break free). The long type is more conspicuous(and thus a better visual deterrant), but the collapsible sort works well like those telescoping batons we use in the military(and obviously, more of a surprise factor). Even better if you can master the flick of the wrist method of extending it. Either way, in the event that you do hit your attacker, don't stop. The biggest mistake would be to hurt them one time, and then run. Hit them until they can no longer fight back/retrieve their weapon(better if you take the distraction to move their weapon out of reach or confiscate it). As long as your attack is aimed at their arms/legs and not their head, the likelihood of you committing manslaughter(no jury would ever allow a murder charge to stick, and even in countries where the judge is the sole arbitrator, it is unlikely to go up to murder) is next to nil(unless the perp had a heart condition, in which case he should have picked a lower stress "job").

Now, back to RW&A.


Actually, my karate teacher suggests the hit and run. Or, if you can, just the run - especially if you're a girl because you have ONE CHANCE to get them where it counts and then you've lost the element of surprise and you're toast.

[AtomicKitKat]

Actually, my karate teacher suggests the hit and run. Or, if you can, just the run - especially if you're a girl because you have ONE CHANCE to get them where it counts and then you've lost the element of surprise and you're toast.

Yeah, but usually, I'd say try for the finger break. If only because if you run, you then have an angry(er) perp chasing you. By disabling him, you improve your odds of escaping completely. Of course, all this is only assuming a solo perp. If it's a gang, roll over unless your life is certain to be in the balance. Then all bets are off.

[zeratul]

I dunno about you guys, but around here, guys get mugged. Girls don't.
And nobody gets raped except for in downtown near Stanley Park at night.
Around my house, there sits, 24/7, an unmarked police car, because the park which I am situated behind is a local hotspot for drug deals.
Potential for bad juju, right?
Not really. They're highschoolers.



The problem is that these crime stats qand what is typical within the crime world varies from area to area. Here stabbings assaults and shootings are pretty common, not much mugging but some, and a fair amount of rape occurs. A guy can usually help to avoid having a problem by looking like he's not the type you want to mess with (wearing a trench coat works well for me), but I'm not sure if this works particularly well for girls.

It's probably a good idea to be aware of what type of crime goes on in your general area and where it's concentrated. But even if you have a high crime rate it doesn't necessarily mean bad stuff is going to happen. There's a really bad crime rate here considering the size of my city, but since I'm usually in a group after midnight I haven't had any problems with that sort of thing despite frequently being out late.

[loopy]

...So, this has gone more than slightly off-topic.

[The Rose Dragon]

EPIC DERAILMENT IS EPIC.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_H44IkuSV9qQ/Sj6BTP-Yk5I/AAAAAAAAJWw/E2WzlVTW6fw/s320/illinois_train_derail.jpg

So...

I haven't sent a message to that previous girl yet (though I intend to). However, I have asked a girl in my Science & Ethics if she wants to go clubbing with me and our classmates and she said yes. Only problem is, I don't know how to interpret it. Does it mean she's interested in being with me, or being social in general? How do I figure that out?

[loopy]

I haven't sent a message to that previous girl yet (though I intend to). However, I have asked a girl in my Science & Ethics if she wants to go clubbing with me and our classmates and she said yes. Only problem is, I don't know how to interpret it. Does it mean she's interested in being with me, or being social in general? How do I figure that out?

Act like a friend (and flirt anyway) until proven otherwise. :smallsmile:

[The Rose Dragon]

1) How do I flirt without becoming creepy?

2) How do I prove otherwise?

[Jack Squat]

1) How do I flirt without becoming creepy?

Others will probably have better advice on this. But wikiHow has an article (http://www.wikihow.com/Flirt) that basically says everything I was going to. Yes, I realize how nerdy it is to link to a wiki about how to flirt.


2) How do I prove otherwise?

If she flirts back.

[Jokasti]

Others will probably have better advice on this. But wikiHow has an article (http://www.wikihow.com/Flirt) that basically says everything I was going to. Yes, I realize how nerdy it is to link to a wiki about how to flirt.



If she flirts back.
Wikipedia also has something to say on how to spot a 'girlfriend (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girlfriend)' in the wild.

[Cobra_Ikari]

I intentionally flirt over the top suggestively. Some people find that creepy. Most people laugh and turn me down. Your mileage may vary. =P

[Trog]

1) How do I flirt without becoming creepy?
There's also this site. (http://www.sirc.org/publik/flirt.html) :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

I am not the kind of man made to have his heart flutter so at the sight of a smile alighting on a fair maid's face.

And yet, within my squelching liver there is some small reaction most vexing. Alack! That I should be such a fool as this, to sigh one day and fall in love and sigh again with the sun's passage and be writing love nothings to another.

This is what comes of forgetting one's dirt blackened heart.

[evil-frosty]

Is there a reason why talking to girls is so hard besides the fear of rejection?

[Coidzor]

Social etiquette, the vastly different systems they use from one another so that what is acceptable and right for one is completely wrong and enraging for the other.

They also wield the power of ostracization and public shame if one is not well versed enough in social matters to defend themselves and even when one is they can offer up an attack.

[Jokasti]

Chicks, man. Chicks.

[skywalker]

I apologize to anyone who tires of this, but I cannot allow myself to be painted as a sexist when I am not.


You don't seem to grasp yet that the fact that women are, on average, somewhat less strong than men has nothing to do with the reason why your patronizing attitude is problematic. What has been objectionable about your posts is your implicit assumption that women are inherently inadequate at assessing their own acceptable level of risk.

The fact that Quincunx might be marginally less safe walking around at night than you are does not give you any right to tell her what level of risk should be acceptable to her.

You don't seem to grasp that I never said that. There was no "implicit assumption." The thought process was "you're thinking about how to convince you're husband that you're safe walking home, when in fact, you might want to think about whether or not you actually are safe walking home." The thought process then continued to pancake, who said "of course you're safe walking home! Your husband is an overprotective ninny, who needs to get over it. This is just a bunch of gender-roles crap anyway." Forgive me for thinking that's not the particularly correct attitude.

I was not trying to tell anyone what level of risk was acceptable to them. I was trying to make them aware of the risk in the first place, which, I'm sorry, they seemed to be woefully unaware of. At no point did I imply anyone was incapable of deciding that. Merely, that they had improperly assessed the level of risk to themselves in the first place.

Being a woman does not make you incapable of choosing your acceptable level of risk (and I never implied this). Being unaware of the risk you are taking to begin with does. I saw both what I thought was the incorrect method of approaching a decision and an incorrect reinforcement of that flawed thought process. In fact, if pancake had never said "you are a grown woman," I never would've mentioned it.

I don't walk alone at night more than from a restaurant to the parking lot. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newso m) happened 5 miles from where I go to school. It happened to two kids who had been told all their life that they were safe, who were beyond not living in fear (which, again, I don't). They were living in complete obliviousness. They weren't even in a particularly "bad" part of town. Sometimes, the bad part of town comes to you, because the good people who live in the bad part of town don't go out at night.


A grown woman is also apparently incapable of making her own logical decisions.

You can't quote this to me because I never actually said it. Thanks tho. You're right. Pyrian probably has a better idea of what I'm saying than I do. No, really.


Yet I still can't walk 4 blocks to Tim Hortons for a freakin coffee & a cruller at midnight because I'm a woman. Seriously.

What Pyrian said is pretty much /thread here.
Your ability to lift heavy things and win arm wrestles mean squat when the other guy has a knife.

Protip though: Ladies! When you're walking by yourself at night, talk on your cellphone. The entire time. Or pretend to, it doesn't matter. NO ONE will approach you if you do, regardless of setting.

So I'm wrong for pointing out that trouble can find women at night, but here's a helpful tip for women to use at night since they need some self-defense strategies in case trouble comes to find them? Yeah, ok. I'll just go sit over here in the out-group, let me know when in-group chat time is over.

And, again, I won't be walking no 4 blocks alone at midnight, because it is asking for trouble, no matter your sex/level of physical ability. Just because I'm Mr. Internet Tough Guy (I have been trained to fight people with knives, and I do carry one, btw) doesn't mean I'm interested in gutting someone to prove my superiority.


I could have stayed indoors... but that would have been 5 years of my life crippled by fear.

Should i have been crippled by fear and stayed in too?

Because everything I have said indicates that I stay indoors, and I think everyone else should too. The amount of strawman-ing in this argument is ridiculous. Either I'm promoting a shut-in lifestyle, I think women are impaired when it comes to critical thinking skills, or I think I'm the Punisher. Not one person has correctly characterized my arguments as I have made them.


All that said, I generally agree with you, Pyrian and all the others pointing out that the risk of being mugged/attacked is generally very low and any height/weight benefit a man has will be cancelled out by the other guy's weapon. Ultimately, male or female, you're pretty unlikely to actually win a fight with an assailant. Happily, murderers/rapists are very rare and a mugger will leave you alone if you just give him your stuff. Seriously, it's just your money. Cancel your bank cards and move on with your life.

Being a man (if you are average) probably won't help you too much in a fight (it will give you some advantage). Where it really, really helps is in you not getting selected as a victim in the first place. Because a man is a more dangerous mark. This is also biological. I'm reading about territorial chimpanzees (where members of one "tribe" ambush singles from another) right now. Guess who they attack more often, altho they find solos of both sexes frequently? Females.

To your second point, there is always the possibility that your assailant feels you could later ID them, or that for some other reason you are just more convenient dead. I'm not saying this is a strong possibility, but I don't think anyone has ever done (or could ever do) a study about which behavior is more likely to get you harmed in that situation.


Actually, my karate teacher suggests the hit and run. Or, if you can, just the run - especially if you're a girl because you have ONE CHANCE to get them where it counts and then you've lost the element of surprise and you're toast.

I would've been lynched for saying this.


There's a really bad crime rate here considering the size of my city, but since I'm usually in a group after midnight I haven't had any problems with that sort of thing despite frequently being out late.

Hey look! Some sensible behavior!


...So, this has gone more than slightly off-topic.

All they had to do was not call me sexist? Was that so hard? Perhaps my posts are just impossible to get the real point of. Never mind when someone told me I "bring reason into many a discussion."

tl;dr: I don't like being called a sexist when I'm not, and I really don't like having words put in my mouth. I will de-rail any thread as long as necessary to defend myself from these, especially the second one. Good night.

[Moonshadow]

:eek: It's got to the point where we're kinda half joking about having me stay the night tomorrow after dinner and the movie...

If things go well, and we're both comfortable enough with the idea, no reason not to, right?

I mean, as long as we move at the pace WE'RE comfortable with, everything should be fine, right? :smalleek:

[Zeb The Troll]

I mean, as long as we move at the pace WE'RE comfortable with, everything should be fine, right? :smalleek:Absolutely. It doesn't matter what the pace is as long as you're both comfortable with it. I've had relationships that started with physical intimacy on the first date and some that the first kiss didn't come until the 3rd date. I have found no direct correlation between the initial speed/timing and the success of the relationship.

[Serpentine]

*sigh*
Then remove sex from it completely. It may be unwise for ANYONE to walk alone at night in certain places, and it may be wise for ANYONE to take precautions or means of protection. If you go through that post and replace each "women" with "people", then I'll be more convinced.

Going back to the original question: Quin, your actual concern was how to stop your husband worrying about your safety, not your safety itself, right? And of course, presumably, you being a grown, intelligent woman, you have assessed the risk of walking home from work and deemed it negligible or very low.
If that's true, then suggestions of how she can protect herself are only relevant in the extent to which they allay hubby's fears. In which case, having a mobile phone may be the solution, or checking in occasionally, or simply talking to him about what you know about personal safety and avoiding risky situations. How about we have some suggestions for this, instead of largely irrelevant questions of whether a woman is stupid for walking alone at night and whether she should push the attack or run at the first opportunity?


Naoto: Great! :smallbiggrin:

[Pyrian]

You don't seem to grasp that I never said that.I reviewed your text before I wrote that, I've reviewed it again now, and I stand by my characterization of what you posted. You wrote:
No, walking home won't kill you. The guy walking behind you with a knife will. ... I say it's foolish for a woman to walk home alone and unarmed after dark, even with a cell phone.In that text, you told Quincunx what level of risk should not be acceptable to her, which is exactly what I criticized you for saying.
And, again, I won't be walking no 4 blocks alone at midnight, because it is asking for trouble, no matter your sex/level of physical ability.You would have garnered less criticism if you'd led with a statement like this rather than explicitly qualifying that it's women who you think would be foolish to do so. Even so, I agree with xPANCAKEx that your assessment of the risk involved seems overblown.

[Moonshadow]

Absolutely. It doesn't matter what the pace is as long as you're both comfortable with it. I've had relationships that started with physical intimacy on the first date and some that the first kiss didn't come until the 3rd date. I have found no direct correlation between the initial apeed/timing and the success of the relationship.

This makes me feel a lot better. Thank you Zeb, Serp and Pyrian :smallsmile:

[skywalker]

*sigh*
Then remove sex from it completely. It may be unwise for ANYONE to walk alone at night in certain places, and it may be wise for ANYONE to take precautions or means of protection. If you go through that post and replace each "women" with "people", then I'll be more convinced.

I'm sorry, explain to me why I should be doing any convincing of you when I never said what you assumed I said?


In that text, you told Quincunx what level of risk should not be acceptable to her, which is exactly what I criticized you for saying.

I told her it was foolish for a woman to walk unarmed, let alone without a cell phone. I attempted to tell her what the level of risk actually was, since it is my opinion that she was/is woefully under-appreciative of the relative risks to her safety. I tried to express that and that I thought xPANCAKEx was engaging in dangerous gender-pandering to say "you are a grown woman etc. etc." xPANCAKEx did not say "You are a grown woman who can make her own choices." He also did not say "You are a grown woman, walking home won't kill you." I admit to reading his ambiguous statement as the latter, you probably read it as the former. I did not say she was incapable of reasonably choosing her own level of risk, altho perhaps I did criticize her for the level she was choosing, as well as the attitude she was approaching the situation with. However, I do not understand how, in any way, you could construe what I said to mean "Women are incapable of choosing their own level of risk." That "Quincunx incorrectly chose her level of acceptable risk?" Fine. Even, if we're making stretches, that "Quincunx is incapable of choosing her own level of risk?" I don't buy it, but I'll even give you that you might have been able to characterize it that way, maybe. But you didn't. You characterized my statement this way:


What has been objectionable about your posts is your implicit assumption that women are inherently inadequate at assessing their own acceptable level of risk.

You criticized me for believing women as a whole to be inherently flawed when it comes to critical assessment of risk. You did not criticize me for telling someone their assessment was wrong, or even for telling them what their assessment should be. So, no, telling her what level of risk should be acceptable to her is not exactly what you criticized me for "saying."


You would have garnered less criticism if you'd led with a statement like this rather than explicitly qualifying that it's women who you think would be foolish to do so. Even so, I agree with xPANCAKEx that your assessment of the risk involved seems overblown.

I direct you to this:


In fact, if pancake had never said "you are a grown woman," I never would've mentioned it.

But he did, and I felt the need to refute the absolutely asinine idea that it is always sexist to think a woman shouldn't walk home alone. It certainly can be, but it is not necessarily sexist. xPANCAKEx is the one who explicitly qualified anyone as a woman first.

Thank you for your advice on how to garner less criticism. Is part two of your advice "Don't have Pyrian change your statement from one about a specific person's specific choice into one about an entire gender's ability to assess risk?"

[Moonshadow]

Grah. Now I just got a text saying that she has been doing some serious thinking and we need to talk because it's the best thing for her.

Must try not to worry :smalleek:


EDIT: The date might be off now, it depends what happens when we talk :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

No, walking home won't kill you. The guy walking behind you with a knife will. I know you are British, pancake, and I know Quin is as well. And I know attitudes are a bit different across the pond. I say it's foolish for a woman to walk home alone and unarmed after dark, even with a cell phone. Because pancake is right, you're a grown woman. Even a grown woman is typically incapable of defending herself against the average grown man a woman needs defending against. This is not sexism, it is scientific fact. To not account for one's obvious disadvantages is silly.Lots of "women shouldn't walk at night on their own", absolutely zero "it is unwise for anyone to walk home on their own". Furthermore, "incapable of defending herself" is one hell of an exaggeration. We're not utterly useless, you know. Speaking of which,

no - but if you're saying women are so 'handicapped' by their gender when it comes to their safety that they should be escorted everywhere then they might as just stay indoorsNot by their gender, by their sex. Biologically. By some trick of God, evolution, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.You are aware that here you basically said that being female is a handicap? Gee, thanks.
In any case, pretty much everything you have said has been irrelevant to the question. What makes you so sure that Quincunx is such a fool that she is incapable of, or has failed to, assess for herself the risks of her intended activity? You have stated several times that this is more or less your assumption:

...The thought process was "you're thinking about how to convince you're husband that you're safe walking home, when in fact, you might want to think about whether or not you actually are safe walking home."... I was trying to make them aware of the risk in the first place, which, I'm sorry, they seemed to be woefully unaware of... Merely, that they had improperly assessed the level of risk to themselves in the first place... Being unaware of the risk you are taking to begin with does.

...I told her it was foolish for a woman to walk unarmed, let alone without a cell phone. I attempted to tell her what the level of risk actually was, since it is my opinion that she was/is woefully under-appreciative of the relative risks to her safety... That "Quincunx incorrectly chose her level of acceptable risk?" Fine.You never thought to ask, "Hey Quincunx, just how dangerous is that walk home? Are your husband's fears really founded? What are the risks on your particular route, and to what extent are you presently able to defend yourself?" Instead, you immediately leaped upon the assumption that... basically, that she's an idiot, who cannot or did not assess situations for herself. Moreover, you have concentrated your concerns in this regard on the fact that she is female, not that she's "walking alone at night".
A quick (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/1992/07000/Men,_Women,_and_Murder__Gender_Specific.1.aspx) Google (http://www.nebraskaprevlink.ne.gov/clearinghouse/catalog/crime_risky_behaviors/crime_violence/femalevictims.pdf) Scholar (http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/3/289) search (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/sdvv.txt) suggests that men are more likely to be at risk of a violent crime, especially in the street, that women. This makes your emphasis on the fact than the person in question is female even more irrelevant.

N-whatsit: Aww :smallfrown: Well, don't worry too much. She seems very up-and-down... If she keeps being this way, you might like to put it all on hold until she's sorted herself out, or for good, but she may well level out, especially if she gets the spine to actually meet you...

[Phaedra]

Being a man (if you are average) probably won't help you too much in a fight (it will give you some advantage). Where it really, really helps is in you not getting selected as a victim in the first place. Because a man is a more dangerous mark. This is also biological. I'm reading about territorial chimpanzees (where members of one "tribe" ambush singles from another) right now. Guess who they attack more often, altho they find solos of both sexes frequently? Females.

To your second point, there is always the possibility that your assailant feels you could later ID them, or that for some other reason you are just more convenient dead. I'm not saying this is a strong possibility, but I don't think anyone has ever done (or could ever do) a study about which behavior is more likely to get you harmed in that situation.



Regardless of whether I am statistically more likely to be chosen as a victim than a man (which I'm aware is the case, yes), the key point when I'm deciding whether to walk outside at night is the chance of me being a victim at all. For both men and women, the chances of something happening in the area I live in are pretty slim.

As to your second point, are you suggesting I fight back against a mugger on the offchance he might kill me? Firstly, this is pretty unlikely - bodies attract quite a lot of attention and the sentence the criminal will face if caught is much higher than if they just steal property. Secondly, if they're not planning to kill me, fighting back would only make it much more likely I get badly hurt.


Anyway, I have a relationship woe for the folks here. My boyfriend started a new course a few weeks ago, in teacher training. Essentially, he has no free time - when he's not at uni, he's reading or planning lessons. So, he's stressed all the time. It also means that I'm doing everything around the house because he doesn't have the time to do anything but study, which is making me stressed, because I have a full-time course to complete as well, I just don't have to go onto campus to do mine. We have no time for each other any more.

Any advice is welcome, though I'm not sure there's really anything we can do apart from endure. I just wanted to vent really.

[Serpentine]

The only thing I can think of is, make sure you both work hard all through the week, then set aside a whole day for the two of you. Spend an hour or two doing housework together (so you don't feel as much like it's all on you), then just hang out. As long as you/he/you both work solidly the rest of the time, it shouldn't put you behind or anything to just take this one day off.

[Jibar]

Others will probably have better advice on this. But wikiHow has an article (http://www.wikihow.com/Flirt) that basically says everything I was going to. Yes, I realize how nerdy it is to link to a wiki about how to flirt.


God wikihow is incredible.
Someday I'll actually use that wikiHow to tie your shoes article.

Relationships, Jibar? Pah.
I'm in that stage of single where a girlfriend would be nice but I'm really kinda hungry.

[Destro_Yersul]

God wikihow is incredible.
Someday I'll actually use that wikiHow to tie your shoes article.


Unfortunately, the article is almost completely useless for those of us who have no ability to read body language and massive mental blocks about talking to new people. >.>

[Moonshadow]

Well, it's off. She's told me that she can't do it, not while she is still in love with her ex. Because if her ex contacted her, she would go back to him in a heartbeat.

She admitted that she was basically leading me on. She doesn't want to ever meet me, I think, but she still wants to be my friend.

I can't be honest with her and tell her that being her friend will just hurt me further. I'm going to do whats best for her, so that she can become well.

I'm oddly calm now, or maybe just tired. It seems that it is my role to do what I can to make others happy at the cost of myself.

Maybe I'll have made a difference before I burn out and disappear *smiles sadly*

Thank you to everyone for your help in the past. I'm sorry that I let you all down.

[loopy]

I don't know mate. I think denying your feelings like that is unhealthy. Better that you tell her that you can't be 'just friends' with her, as with the feelings that you hold, any time she gets with another guy its just going to hurt you.

My advice would be to cut it off. This situation will only end up dragging you down emotionally the further you let it go on.

[skywalker]

Lots of "women shouldn't walk at night on their own", absolutely zero "it is unwise for anyone to walk home on their own". Furthermore, "incapable of defending herself" is one hell of an exaggeration. We're not utterly useless, you know.

Is it in vogue to take someone's specific statement and make it a generalization? I didn't say women were utterly useless, I said that women are typically incapable of defending themselves against the type of man who typically attacks women.

I was trying to provide a voice counter to the one I heard saying "you're a grown woman, go walking at night! Don't live life in fear! Make fun of your husband for caring about you!" That's the type of pop-feminism that creates unrealistic ideals and gets people hurt.


Speaking of which,You are aware that here you basically said that being female is a handicap? Gee, thanks.

Zeb laid it out for you. You are physically handicapped compared to men when it comes to tests of strength, which, last time I checked, a physical struggle is. I'm sorry. Take it up with the agent of creation of your choice. It's not up to me, and I wouldn't have that anyone be weaker or stronger against their choice if it were. Also, thanks for taking my specific statement and making it a generalization again.


In any case, pretty much everything you have said has been irrelevant to the question. What makes you so sure that Quincunx is such a fool that she is incapable of, or has failed to, assess for herself the risks of her intended activity? You have stated several times that this is more or less your assumption:

You never thought to ask, "Hey Quincunx, just how dangerous is that walk home? Are your husband's fears really founded? What are the risks on your particular route, and to what extent are you presently able to defend yourself?" Instead, you immediately leaped upon the assumption that... basically, that she's an idiot, who cannot or did not assess situations for herself. Moreover, you have concentrated your concerns in this regard on the fact that she is female, not that she's "walking alone at night".

I concentrated my concerns in the regard that she was less safe because she was female, not that she had made the wrong choice because she was female. This makes all the difference.

The entire conversation at that point was focused on her being female and walking alone at night. To be honest I wasn't expecting to get dragged into some argument where someone grossly over-generalized my point. I was making an offhand comment about her attitudes, which I considered myself unlikely to change. Everyone ignored this:


Regardless, I am unlikely to talk you into actively preparing to defend yourself, and your options for doing so effectively in your area are woefully limited. I wouldn't see the cell phone as a "leash," do you not want a protective husband? Ah, whatever.

And no, I also didn't ask because I wasn't really addressing her post with those comments. I was addressing xPANCAKEx's post, primarily. I had already accepted that Quincunx was going to have that attitude. Like I told Pyrian, I took "You are a grown woman" to mean "Being a grown woman makes you safe walking at night," whereas it could've meant "you're a grown woman who can make her own decision about whether or not she wants to take the risk of walking home alone." We'll never know, because it was not clarified at the time. Perhaps I overreacted to that. As I said before, however, the former attitude gets people hurt. So it bothers me when I perceive it being used.

Regardless, I think someone still needs to be told "hey, I think you're making a wrong decision." When the person themself has been more than blunt with people before, and when the wrong decision can lead them into danger, I don't think a dearth of politeness is too great a sin.


A quick (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/1992/07000/Men,_Women,_and_Murder__Gender_Specific.1.aspx) Google (http://www.nebraskaprevlink.ne.gov/clearinghouse/catalog/crime_risky_behaviors/crime_violence/femalevictims.pdf) Scholar (http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/3/289) search (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/sdvv.txt) suggests that men are more likely to be at risk of a violent crime, especially in the street, that women. This makes your emphasis on the fact than the person in question is female even more irrelevant.

I would wager that this is because more men tend to be stupid enough to walk alone at night, not necessarily because men get attacked more often period. If there are more men to be attacked, more men will be attacked.

[arguskos]

Eh, this isn't really a WOE persay, but I need some advice on what to do.

My gf and I are still plenty happy together, that's not the issue. She's been stressed like crazy recently, cause she's having issues with a few classes (to the tune of, she could lose her scholarship and a ton of money and a bunch of badness). I haven't really seen her much, since she's so busy she spends all her time studying, going to class/work, and sleeping.

I know she's hurting about these classes, and I'm hurting too, since she's upset and I can't seem to help her any. I'd kinda like if someone had any advice on what I can do to ease her stress some. :smallfrown:

Sorry for the rambling, it's been a long ****ty day so far with very little sleep. :smallsigh:

[Myrmex]

I was trying to make them aware of the risk in the first place

Interesting.
What is that risk?

You know women are more likely to be sexually assaulted by their protective husbands or friends than strangers on the street? You should worn your female friends that, statistically, they should be more afraid of YOU assaulting them in their own home than being attacked at night. Comparatively, the night time stranger attack is quite rare.

If you want to be preaching fear, use some numbers. Or maybe drop the attitude that you know best, when all you've got is a book on chimps and an anecdote about a murder in your neighborhood. You're largely arguing that women should be terrified of a myth.


I don't like being called a sexist when I'm not....

Then don't say sexist things or have sexist attitudes.
Pyrian & Serpentine have both demonstrated the sexist content of your posts.

[AtomicKitKat]

Unfortunately, the article is almost completely useless for those of us who have no ability to read body language and massive mental blocks about talking to new people. >.>

Destro: If she starts touching herself(primarily, her hair, maybe running one hand down the other arm), or tilts her hips towards you, it's a good sign. That's about the most basic level of body language(and should be impossible to miss). For new people, just say "Hi. So how are you finding tonight?". That lets her start talking about herself, which should be your cue to listen(and maybe find something else she's interested in to carry the conversation forward). That'll let you basically slide through the conversation having her talk about herself. Be prepared to answer(more than a "Yeah" or "Uh-huh") if she asks, but don't start taking over the whole conversation talking about yourself. That last part is tricky, but with practice, you'll eventually find the "sweet spot", where you can shut up about yourself and go back to her. And yeah, practice is the only way you'll get better at this. If you'd told me 10 years ago that I'd be where I was now, I'd have handed over...well, "stuff" just to be at the stage that I am now then. On the other hand, 10 years ago, I was an immature, selfish young punk about to enter the army, so yeah...all things in time.

Arguskos: Just hold her. Nothing more, just a good, firm, hug and reassuring pat on the back. After that, ask her to tell you what's on her mind, listen, and most important of all, don't offer advice. If she does ask your advice at the end(not before), then give some(assuming you have any).

[Quincunx]

Eh, this isn't really a WOE persay, but I need some advice on what to do.

My gf and I are still plenty happy together, that's not the issue. She's been stressed like crazy recently, cause she's having issues with a few classes (to the tune of, she could lose her scholarship and a ton of money and a bunch of badness). I haven't really seen her much, since she's so busy she spends all her time studying, going to class/work, and sleeping.

I know she's hurting about these classes, and I'm hurting too, since she's upset and I can't seem to help her any. I'd kinda like if someone had any advice on what I can do to ease her stress some. :smallfrown:

Sorry for the rambling, it's been a long ****ty day so far with very little sleep. :smallsigh:

Deploy the kitty!

[arguskos]

Deploy the kitty!
...english? If you mean the cat we have, well, he's actually on vacation at the moment, and will return in a few days. If you mean something else, then I'm confused. Perhaps I'm just thick today (highly likely XD).

[skywalker]

Interesting.

I don't think you find it interesting at all, except as an opportunity to take shots at me.


You know women are more likely to be sexually assaulted by their protective husbands or friends than strangers on the street? You should worn your female friends that, statistically, they should be more afraid of YOU assaulting them in their own home than being attacked at night. Comparatively, the night time stranger attack is quite rare.

No, no I really shouldn't. Because there is an absolute zero chance of that happening where I'm concerned. I don't particularly appreciate the allusion to the contrary, and I don't think a personal attack really adds to the discussion. But they have plenty of people like you to tell them about that anyway. So I think I'll go ahead and tell them about the things that other people aren't telling them about, and that they are much less likely to see coming.


If you want to be preaching fear, use some numbers. Or maybe drop the attitude that you know best, when all you've got is a book on chimps and an anecdote about a murder in your neighborhood. You're largely arguing that women should be terrified of a myth.

Not preaching fear, first of all. Preaching awareness, and the proper approach to situations. Do you really believe my only support for these things is my Anthropology textbook and 1 terrible, awful, gruesome rape/torture/murder? (that could've been prevented by simply being aware of where you are and that there are people capable of such things in the world) How is it a myth that people get attacked at night? It happens! Do you know what the person is thinking who is that statistical rarity? They're thinking "I could never be that person." I will bet you $100 that the person who thinks "I could be that person" almost never is.

BTW, if you're so big on numbers, where are yours for all of this "statistically" and "comparatively rare" business? If I need numbers, then you certainly do too.

Do you really think you know better than me? So far, what you have had to say is to call me "Mr. Internet Tough Guy," (I know some, and one of them, I am not) "Pyrian is right" (he wasn't), and "You need some numbers, despite the fact that I don't have any for my own claims of statistics."


Then don't say sexist things or have sexist attitudes.
Pyrian & Serpentine have both demonstrated the sexist content of your posts.

Yes, they did a really good job of demonstrating what was never there, Pyrian in particular. Your logic really is ironclad.

[loopy]

Alright, skywalker, Pyrian, all you lot. Not to get in the middle of your little debate here, but its quite obvious that we aren't going to change anyones mind here, and you are all going off-topic.

Could we move the arguing to PM's, or better yet, drop the subject entirely?

EDIT: So, if you had feelings for a girl, but then you found out she liked you back, and stopped liking her... but have a history of commitment issues...

Do you think you should give the girl a chance or tell her that you are too screwed up to date?

[The Rose Dragon]

So, apparently we're not gonna be able to go to a club with the friends.

So onto my next plan, asking her out to the club anyway.

[arguskos]

EDIT: So, if you had feelings for a girl, but then you found out she liked you back, and stopped liking her... but have a history of commitment issues...

Do you think you should give the girl a chance or tell her that you are too screwed up to date?
You know what I'm going to say, because I always say the same thing. :smallwink: I still say you go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing earned.

EDIT: I'm about if you wish to discuss it.

[xPANCAKEx]

Phaedra
some nice, small distraction to lift their spirits will do the trick

dropping himm over a home-made lunch, even something simple (like sandwiches, a flask of coffee, a slice of cake, and an apple each), so you can eat together for 20 minutes before you leave would do nicely

Jibar
don't sweat it

sometimes people arn't in a place where they want a relationship. Just because you're single its not a negative thing. If you find someone who takes your interest/is interested in you - consider persuing it... relationships arn't a priority and that can be a healthy thing.

plus the old addage of "you'll find someone when you're not looking" is likely to kick in eventually


Naoto Shirogane
first of all - you've not let us down in the slightest. You've acted boldly and bravely, and should be proud of yourself... so no more of that appology talk mr :smallsmile:

the whole "we can still be friends thing" - do yourself a favour on this one and steer clear of her. If she treats you dishonestly, shes not worth having as a friend. She may not have intended to lead you on, but for your own well being, leave her alone while she sorts herself out. If she comes calling, tell her you need your space. Friendships are about give and take, and i'd wouldn't call a relationship a friendship when it would be based on you padding her ego while she sorts herself out - which would be inevitable given the past situation until now

lastly though - you need to take time and sort this priority out. You come first. Not anyone else. As much as we sometimes have to support and care for others, when you're doing it to the point of severe detriment to yourself you'll be hindering rather than helping them. Keep that in mind. Help others by helping yourself first. Don't beat yourself up if you feel low about the whole thing for a while - these things do cause a knock to the self-esteem... but you will pull through. Go out with your friends and have a night or two of fun. Get back to enjoying yourself.

And next time a young lass catches your attention, don't hesistate to ask for advice if you need it. You're always welcome here, and we'll all always be willing to try and give the advice we feel is best for you :)

Loopy

if you're not interested, don't mess the girl about - that would be heartless

[Quincunx]

arguskos: Cat therapy is portable. There's room enough for a cat in the lap and a study book above, you see. (Many cats have proven this point with me, although usually aiming for book below cat.)

[skywalker]

Could we move the arguing to PM's, or better yet, drop the subject entirely?

Since I was decried publicly, I prefer to defend myself in same. I understand your frustration. I'm sorry.


arguskos: Cat therapy is portable. There's room enough for a cat in the lap and a study book above, you see. (Many cats have proven this point with me, although usually aiming for book below cat.)

CATS. CATS ARE NICE.

[arguskos]

arguskos: Cat therapy is portable. There's room enough for a cat in the lap and a study book above, you see. (Many cats have proven this point with me, although usually aiming for book below cat.)
True enough. When Sherbet returns from his vet-based vacation (poor dude needed some shots, and he had to stay at her mother's place for a bit), he'll be heavily used as a "awww, he's so cute, you should pet him and smile for a moment" tool. :smallamused:

[Moonshadow]

Hahaha... But I don't feeel proud. I failed yet again, and now I have to do what I can to help her.

I can't just abandon her for my comfort. I can't desert people in need, it's just not my way. As long as she need's me, I'll be there for her. It's only hurting me, so it's no great loss.

it's never about me, despite what people tell me. I can't ever be selfish and make it about me, I have to do what other people need me to.

And I don't have any friends who I can enjoy a night out with, even if I had the time to. All I have time for is work. i realise that I'm burning the candle at both ends, but it doesn't matter as long as I make a small difference to someone's life.

[xPANCAKEx]

Hahaha... But I don't feeel proud. I failed yet again, and now I have to do what I can to help her.

I can't just abandon her for my comfort. I can't desert people in need, it's just not my way. As long as she need's me, I'll be there for her. It's only hurting me, so it's no great loss.

it's never about me, despite what people tell me. I can't ever be selfish and make it about me, I have to do what other people need me to.

And I don't have any friends who I can enjoy a night out with, even if I had the time to. All I have time for is work. i realise that I'm burning the candle at both ends, but it doesn't matter as long as I make a small difference to someone's life.

you, sir, need to re-evalute that evidently low sense of self worth. You can't help others before you help yourself - keep that in mind if you need to motivate yourself

and if you could make the time for this lass, you can CERTAINLY make time for your friends - they need you too remember

[Moonshadow]

*smiles sadly* That would be because I'm not worth that much. anything I do, someone else could do easily if they tried.

And my friends don't have time for me. I don't even hear from them anymore unless I contact them, and they certainly never want to come and see me anymore, but expect me to try and see them.

Sorry for being a bother though. i'll try not to anymore.

[arguskos]

*smiles sadly* That would be because I'm not worth that much. anything I do, someone else could do easily if they tried.

And my friends don't have time for me. I don't even hear from them anymore unless I contact them, and they certainly never want to come and see me anymore, but expect me to try and see them.

Sorry for being a bother though. i'll try not to anymore.
Do you want me to call Bor and have him hunt you down with a goat? Is that what you want?

Your concerns are always fine. :smalltongue: As for you having low-self worth like this, I've said before that you're always welcome to speak with me, if you wish to. I'm not super exciting, but I try. If it'll make you feel better about yourself any, please, don't hesitate to contact me. :smallredface:

Also, epic de-rail is epic. I'll stop that now.

[Syka]

Arguskos, do something nice that you know she'd like, like cook a meal she likes or rent a movie and have her take 2 hours out of her day to chill, etc. And, generally, just be there.

To the other one with a stressed out SO: talk to them. I know what an unfun course load is like, I'm a first semester MBA student whose working 20 hours a week. Oz is regularly 'neglected', and when I have downtime I end up neglected because HE'S busy with film stuff. I still get my chores at home done, though, and I still manage to spend at least a little time with Oz, even if it's just our shows a couple times a week. When life gets super busy, you have to consciously make time for your significant other. Often that relationship can take a back seat to life because you think it'll always be there and omgz this is soooo important.

Nothing is so important it can't wait an hour while you cuddle up to your SO (or whatever you want to do)...unless it happens to be a paper due in an hour that you haven't written yet. :smallwink:

Basically- MAKE time, and figure out a way for him to contribute to housework...because I guarentee you, he can. As a student, I know I do way too much procrastinating (*coughnowcough*), and most I know do. So....just talk to him.

[skywalker]

*smiles sadly* That would be because I'm not worth that much. anything I do, someone else could do easily if they tried.

And my friends don't have time for me. I don't even hear from them anymore unless I contact them, and they certainly never want to come and see me anymore, but expect me to try and see them.

Sorry for being a bother though. i'll try not to anymore.

You are a unique being who brings something special to this world. John Lennon once said "There's nothing you can do that can't be done... All you need is love." There is probably always someone out there who can perform a skill as well or better than you can. But there is no one who can be a better you than you. The love that John says you need is self-love. Love yourself for yourself. You are yourself and yourself is a big deal. What's best for this girl is to learn that some people can't be "just friends" after this sort of situation.

Now, the trick is to take this outpouring of love that has been sent your way, accept it, internalize it, and not feel bad. No, don't feel bad about feeling bad either. Just take that in dude.


Nothing is so important it can't wait an hour while you cuddle up to your SO (or whatever you want to do)...unless it happens to be a paper due in an hour that you haven't written yet. :smallwink:

Even then... It's debatable :smallbiggrin:

Maybe if there's like a "no late work" policy, or something.

Argus, I'm more and more curious because I used to have a friend in Texas, where does your gf go to school? My ex graduated from UTD a couple of years ago. You do live in Texas, right?! I didn't just make that up while browsing Borseph's blog?

[arguskos]

Argus, I'm more and more curious because I used to have a friend in Texas, where does your gf go to school? My ex graduated from UTD a couple of years ago. You do live in Texas, right?! I didn't just make that up while browsing Borseph's blog?
Yeah, my gf goes to UTD right now. :smallwink: Hell, I'm there RIGHT NOW. I actually go to Richland Community College, up the road, now.

Syka: thanks for the advice. I've been thinking about making something for her, probably dinner. Haven't decided what yet. Possibly pasta (we have a favorite that we really enjoy).

[AtomicKitKat]

Naoto: Ouch. Sounds a bit like what I've been going through recently, where you feel like you want to take care of someone, it gives you sense of purpose, but the other person either sees you as a servant, or they're otherwise unable to see you as a life partner. Sad to say, all you can really do is move on(if/when someone else comes along), or carry on moving in place until they do. Whatever you do, don't cut ties or try to foster hatred, they may meet someone later who will be more suitable for you.

[Coidzor]

Grah. Now I just got a text saying that she has been doing some serious thinking and we need to talk because it's the best thing for her.

Must try not to worry :smalleek:


EDIT: The date might be off now, it depends what happens when we talk :smallfrown:

Ahh, ye old jerking of chains.

[Serpentine]

Just one more snippet...
I would wager that this is because more men tend to be stupid enough to walk alone at night, not necessarily because men get attacked more often period. If there are more men to be attacked, more men will be attacked.That is, indeed, a valid concern with those studies - and it did occur to me. It is grounds for demanding a more detailed study. It is not sufficient to justify the dismissal of them in their entirety, nor does it change my point in any significant way.

Naoto: That sucks :smallfrown: But, really, she broke it off because of her issues - she was interested in meeting you at all because of YOUR value. It is a success, not a failure! You are capable of attracting a desirable member of the opposite sex! Now to track down one without the baggage...

On my end of things, none of my friends seem to understand why my Boy and I are going to moderate lengths to avoid being at the same event at the same time as Ex and Ex-friend. Those reasons being, I would be extremely uncomfortable, stressed and easily distressed, and he would be constantly looking for opportunities for confrontation. Does anyone here understand? Or especially not understand?
I do realise how frustrating it can be for mutual friends... Although it seems that facts regarding her past behaviour are not as well-known as previously assumed.
An interesting turn-around in this whole drama that was pointed out to me yesterday: The story Ex-friend has put about is that her then-best friend's boyfriend attempted to kiss her and she struggled to get away, although perhaps not as hard as she should have. Assuming this is true (which it's not), the automatic attitude is "poor Ex-friend, her best friend's boyfriend tried to kiss her". Entirely absent is, "poor Best Friend, her boyfriend tried to kiss her best friend". I just thought that's an interesting dynamic among these people...

Also:
FRICKIN' VOTE

[Coidzor]

Isn't she dating him now, so the point is moot?

If it's not as well out there are you thought, you have only those involved and who should've been spreading the low down to the rest of the group to blame.

Maybe you need to write up a blog post and direct them to it to demystify why you object so viscerally to them.

Naoto: Seriously though, quite beating yourself up. It's bloody tiresome and does no good and only serves to hurt yourself and annoy those around you.

Either you got unlucky and attracted the attention of someone who wants to **** with you or you got unlucky and attracted someone who likes you but is in too much of a ****ed up place with issues to pursue.

[Serpentine]

Isn't she dating him now, so the point is moot?Are you thinking that "the best friend" is me? No, that's another girl. She and her boyfriend are still together (no thanks to Ex-friend). My Ex never cheated on me.

Maybe you need to write up a blog post and direct them to it to demystify why you object so viscerally to them.Heh... maybe. But... well, aforementioned Best Friend already has a blog upon which she has disclosed everything. Unfortunately, she's a very, very angry young woman who cannot be trusted and who (with a good deal of help from Ex-friend) alienated most of her friends. On one blog in particular, she claimed that Ex-friend had sex with her boyfriend. This is not true, and Ex-friend can point to it and say "she said that?! That's a lie!", and everyone would be justified in saying "oh, she's a liar. You can't believe anything she says"... despite the fact that, while they did not have sex, they did just about everything but, and she had definite intentions of taking him for herself.
Eh, it's not a big deal. If it comes up, I'll enlighten people, but otherwise, if they don't ask me why they can just go on being frustrated at the inconvenience. I think there's only one person I might bring up the abortion with, but I won't initiate or cause that conversation, if you know what I mean...

[Coidzor]

Eh, it's not a big deal. If it comes up, I'll enlighten people, but otherwise, if they don't ask me why they can just go on being frustrated at the inconvenience. I think there's only one person I might bring up the abortion with, but I won't initiate or cause that conversation, if you know what I mean...

And she's still dating the guy who almost had sex with the girl? :smallconfused:

I feel sick to my stomach. Which is annoying because this last part of your post is making me hungry...

[Serpentine]

...abortion makes you hungry? :smallconfused:
Ew :smallyuk:

Yes, she is. I don't know how much she knows. My guess is her boyfriend basically told her it was all Ex-friend's fault. It's not the most stable or healthy of relationships... Although, fun fact: She and I discovered a while back (at the point where everything went downhill, incidentally) that we are the same height, same weight, and were both perfect hourglasses. There was discussion about sharing clothes. It never happened, and now I think of it, we have very different tastes...

[xPANCAKEx]

skywalker

i believe everyones covered points i would have made, so im not going to rehash, or drag back up stuff that doesn't need to be done

what i will say is this (purely for the sake of clarity) - my use of the term 'gender' which you chose to take umbrance over was not meant in the terms of 'gender identity' or any such like, more as gender as a term of biological designation. Not sure this really affects anything you'd have to say on the issue, but saying this purely for the sake of clarity

also - i'd highly advise you to look at your own risk assesments of the world. Unless you live in an exceedingly high crime/high risk neighbourhood, then your refusal or inability to walk 4 blocks after midnight is very concerning, and i'd actually be interested to see why you think doing so would put you at such a risk of harm? (note: there are some neighbourhoods where it is indeed unsafe to walk after dark, but those are by-and-large a very small minority)

serp

if people are aware that they are being ass-hats and are intent on causing a scene, but are likely to step in then go. If your friends are the type to sit back and not intervene then it may be wise to steer clear... but even still, i don't let other people dictate where and when i can attend social gatherings. As long as you give each other a wide berth you'll be fine and won't make anyone else uncomfortable as long as you don't bring up the other people involved

just go in, keep your chin up as you've done nothing wrong

[Pyrian]

On my end of things, none of my friends seem to understand why my Boy and I are going to moderate lengths to avoid being at the same event at the same time as Ex and Ex-friend. Those reasons being, I would be extremely uncomfortable, stressed and easily distressed, and he would be constantly looking for opportunities for confrontation. Does anyone here understand? Or especially not understand?
I do realise how frustrating it can be for mutual friends...My default position is to understand but not go out of my way to enable. I tend to refuse to allow my various friends' issues with each other to get in the way of my inviting anybody I feel like inviting.

[Serpentine]

Actually, it's my present boyfriend who I'd expect to be the maker of scenes :smalltongue:
In the present case - a Camarilla Hallowe'en party - I was a bit so-so about going anyway. Mostly, I would find it extremely uncomfortable to be around them - even in the viscinity. I still feel a pang and a twist even just seeing her/their car go past. I think it's all going away enough that I may be able to deal with it well enough soon, or maybe even now if it's important, but if it doesn't really matter, I'd prefer to go with avoidance for now. Anyway, it looks like that party's gonna be dead, and we've been invited to another... <.<

edit @ Pyrian: Absolutely. I never, ever try to tell my friends who they can or cannot invite. I just make it clear to them that if they are going to be there - and I know they get priority - I almost certainly won't be. If I invite them to something, I hope they would have the sense to not invite them along.

[Zeb The Troll]

pancake - I think you're missing something about what Serp's talking about (or I am, that's possible too). If I read it right, she has a friend, we'll call him Bobby. Bobby is friends with both Serp and Ex-friend and doesn't understand why he can't take Serp+Boy (codename: Snake) and Ex-friend+Ex (codename: Mongoose), at the same time, to the same function, together, with him. This would force Snake to be in a situation where avoidance would be awkward at best, and downright rude most likely.

Yeah, bringing a snake and a mongoose to the same party is ill advised and a recipe for bloodshed. :smallcool:

EDIT: Hey, and then Serpentine posted while I was typing this. Disregard anything that may not be relevant.

[Phaedra]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my issue earlier, you all gave muchly helpful advice. Me and the Boy had originally planned to have Sundays just to ourselves - as time's gone by the day's just been taken over by work. We need to put more effort into reclaiming it for ourselves. I'll talk with the Boy tonight, ask that we go back to not working then.

I like xPANCAKEx's lunch suggestion too, I'll definitely try that. 20mins where we're together and not stressed is all we need.

[Jalor]

Okay, it's pretty much commonly accepted here that some people will only date acquaintances while others will only date friends. How do you ask or determine if a person is one or the other? "Do you only date acquaintances, or friends?" seems too... awkward.

[Jack Squat]

Okay, it's pretty much commonly accepted here that some people will only date acquaintances while others will only date friends. How do you ask or determine if a person is one or the other? "Do you only date acquaintances, or friends?" seems too... awkward.

You could ask them out and see. Honestly, I think it's really not a hard and fast rule.

[xPANCAKEx]

jalor

+1 what jack squat said - everyone will bend the rule when they want to

[Jalor]

Ordinarily I wouldn't worry about it at all, but I don't want to cause awkwardness and lose a friend.

In my experience, the rule is more commonly bent by a girl who doesn't usually date people she doesn't know well than vice-versa. Meh, I'm probably overthinking it.

[Coidzor]

Meh, don't hide it but don't make a show of it until you're comfortable asking her out.

[xPANCAKEx]

jalor

you've gotta take a few risks sometimes else you never get anywhere

[Coidzor]

What does one think in one's self-talk to combat the urge to melt at the sight of a certain someone's smile?

I'm getting really annoyed by how cute I find this one girl's smile to be.

[SMEE]

What does one think in one's self-talk to combat the urge to melt at the sight of a certain someone's smile?

I'm getting really annoyed by how cute I find this one girl's smile to be.

Hm...
The solution is clear. Next time she smiles within arm distance, go for the kiss. :smallcool:

I could be totally wrong, though. I know that is what I'd expect a guy to do to me if I had a melt causing smile. :smallredface: