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Shademan
2009-10-17, 11:47 AM
first off: Narmoth DO NOT read any of this!










ok, so a friend of mine have a lv1 fighter who just advanced to lv 2. he is a hextor worshipper and would like some help/advice as to what (prestige)classes and feats he should take. he is currently going for some ninja levels (he's gonna wear light armour mostly anyways) for the sudden strike, wolfs bite and AC bonus.
he uses a greatsword and is of dubious alignment.
so... any help?

PinkysBrain
2009-10-17, 12:05 PM
So is he fighter 1/ninja 1, or is he fighter 2 and he wants some ninja levels?

Ninja's wisdom to AC only works unarmored ... what is his wisdom bonus?

vanyell
2009-10-17, 12:10 PM
if he is looking to make a sneaky type character, and he already has the two fighter levels, I'd suggest swordsage. it has the "sneaky factor" from shadow hand, and the kick Astrix factor from all the other abilities...

that's what I'd do at least

Shademan
2009-10-17, 12:12 PM
his wisdom is low but he have a impressive int.
so he is currently lv2 fighter. since he had to level for our next session

vanyell
2009-10-17, 12:19 PM
I don't have my ninja book handy, but is the ninja AC boost not based on Wis anyways?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-17, 12:22 PM
Based on Wis.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-17, 12:24 PM
his wisdom is low but he have a impressive int.
Neither the wisdom to AC nor the Ki powers work while armoured. Swordsage would work better, but I assume you don't have ToB.

How about simply Rogue 4? (Be nice and let him pretend he took the rogue level first so he gets more skillpoints.) Fighter 2/Rogue 4, take TWF and use the greatsword with armor spikes as an offhand weapon. After that depends on books available ... if only core + complete adventurer there is Ghost Faced Killer.

Shademan
2009-10-17, 12:26 PM
I Do have Tob. just never really...read it

PinkysBrain
2009-10-17, 12:30 PM
Well Swordsage can have a lot of the same flavour as the Ninja, but it has wis to AC while wearing light armour (and not using a shield) which works much better for him.

PS. you can print out all manoeuvres using these free cards : http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

Thurbane
2009-10-17, 06:51 PM
The Dread Commando PrC (HoB) is good for a stealthy warrior type.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-17, 06:58 PM
ok, so a friend of mine have a lv1 fighter who just advanced to lv 2. he is a hextor worshipper and would like some help/advice as to what (prestige)classes and feats he should take. he is currently going for some ninja levels (he's gonna wear light armour mostly anyways) for the sudden strike, wolfs bite and AC bonus.
he uses a greatsword and is of dubious alignment.
so... any help?

You seem to have confused stuff. Ninja can't use armor and their ninja powers.
Swordsages can and fit Ninja pretty good in flavor.

lsfreak
2009-10-17, 07:17 PM
Go swordsage, and see if you can get Carmendine Monk (allows monk abilities to be based on Int instead of Wis) to be allowed for swordsages' AC bonus, and if possible the Wis->dmg for strikes and the like.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-10-18, 03:24 AM
A little more information would be handy. If you have access to Champions of Valor and a houserule-inclined DM, the aforementioned Carmendine Monk feat is probably the ticket. Also, ToB, in general is a plus.

I would recommend going Fighter 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2 (with the carmendine monk feat applying for int instead of wis)/Warblade X. Use the fighter levels to pick up things like Power Attack and either Dungeoncrasher ACF (From Dungeonscape. Basically, you bullrush someone into a wall solid surface, and they take extra dice of damage) or Improved bullrush, to get access to Shocktrooper (Complete Warrior). If going with the Dungeoncrasher, I would also recommend sticking with Fighter to 6th level, grabbing Knockback (Races of Stone) so you can bullrush on each power attacking swing. Use Warblade levels on silly things like White Raven Tactics for "extra turns" (or, you know, letting your allies go again, too) and boosts.

Also, Improved Trip should be on the list for what is basically a +4 to hit.

Doc Roc
2009-10-18, 04:02 AM
Ninja is very weak, considerably inferior to swordsage. If power is truly a concern, I recommend swordsage or crusader. Crusader can, with a source for turn undead such as ur-priest, lead into Ruby Knight Vindicator, which among many other offerings, provides class features that elegantly support stealth and martial prowess.

taltamir
2009-10-18, 05:50 AM
the class on your sheet is explicitly stated to not be your in game job... a "bard" in game is someone who goes from tavern to tavern telling tales... most of them are NOT descendant of dragons and do not posses magic ability. A bard the player class is a dragon descendant that uses his innate magical powers to to amazing things with songs or just flat out cast spells at people. (and he goes from tavern to tavern telling tales for bardic knowledge... and has a ton of people skills, and can perform, and so on and so forth).

So if he wants to be a ninja... come from a ninja clan, wear ninja clothes, use ninja weapons... and have levels of rogue, or fighter, or ranger... You can easily respin ranger or rogue as a ninja... trained in tracking or stealth... the fighter ninja is the one who was never good at all those sneaking up things, but always beat the other trainee ninja's when it came to ninjitsu fighting. etc etc. A ninja clan is gonna have some fighters who are only good at killing people, some rogues who are masters of sneaking and forging documents and opening locks and handling traps, some rangers who can track in the wild, follow wild animals, etc... And naturally, some commoners.. people born to the clan with no talents of any note who are only good for menial labor.

I would suggest a rebuild...

Now, those suggestions don't mean he cannot USE a ninja class, or some class from an asian themed splat book... some of those PrCs are really nice and will go well with what he does... just for the love of god don't be a monk, they are almost as bad as commoners but SOUND really awesome until you learn better.

Shademan
2009-10-18, 05:57 AM
he don't care about the ninja fluff, he wants the sudden strike, ghost step and wolfs maw or whatever its called

taltamir
2009-10-18, 06:07 AM
he don't care about the ninja fluff, he wants the sudden strike, ghost step and wolfs maw or whatever its called

ok now that is completely different... I misunderstood the situation.

I am not sufficiently familiar with those feats to help plan a good build for them, sorry.

Shademan
2009-10-18, 06:38 AM
is there any ninja variants? I know people like to make new versions of classes...

and what book is swordsage in?

Kommisar Engel
2009-10-18, 07:58 AM
Tome of Battle.

Get PHB2 and Dungeonscape for making fighters awesome.

I'd prefer Rogue 3/Fighter 1/Swrdsage x

Starbuck_II
2009-10-18, 08:25 AM
There is a homebrew Ninja class on the forums. Basically a redone version of Ninja: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94207
It is pretty good I thought.

Shademan
2009-10-18, 12:39 PM
thanks. that ninja looks good.
say, is there any other way you can get ghost step and sudden strike?

ericgrau
2009-10-18, 12:57 PM
Dumping his armor will be a bad idea, especially this early when you don't need to know how to optimize to have a good AC. Even putting that aside, I haven't seen a fighter/rogue-ish work well before. It doesn't suck, but they simply don't complement eachother either. You'll be struggling to be a decent skillmonkey in heavy armor with less skill points or else you'll be struggling to be a decent fighter in light armor with less hit points. IMO pick one or the other and go from there. Find ways to make your rogue-ish class fight better without fighter levels or to make your fighter more tricky/awesome without rogue levels.

Shademan
2009-10-18, 12:59 PM
it should maybe be pointed out that the group consist of a cleric, a warlock, a monk (variant monk, mind) and the fighter

Draz74
2009-10-18, 01:02 PM
is there any other way you can get ghost step and sudden strike?

I don't think so (although I could be forgetting some PrCs from CAdventurer or whatever) ... but that's because they're not really that good. Other sourcebooks didn't want to make the same mistakes as the Ninja made. Why exactly does your player want these exact abilities? Does he just like their names a lot?

(To whit: Ghost Step is nice; one-round Greater Invisibility as a free action -- but a few uses per day is not enough when your entire combat style relies heavily on it, and when it only lasts one round! And spells can do this, better.

Sudden Strike, meanwhile, is precisely nothing but a nerfed version (no flanking option) of Sneak Attack.)

I can't help you until I understand why your player is focused on sub-par abilities while wanting a powerful character.

lsfreak
2009-10-18, 01:23 PM
thanks. that ninja looks good.
say, is there any other way you can get ghost step and sudden strike?

Look at the Swordsage abilities Cloak of Deception and Assassin's Stance.

Darrin
2009-10-18, 05:13 PM
thanks. that ninja looks good.
say, is there any other way you can get ghost step and sudden strike?

Yes, the Ghost-Faced Killer PrC in CompAdv gets both Ghost Step (up to 4/day) and Sudden Strike (up to 3d6). Requires BAB +5, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, and ranks in Hide, Concentration, Intimidate, and Move Silently. A fighter/ranger can qualify at ECL 5. You can add levels of Dread Commando (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050407b&page=6) after that for more Sudden Strike.

A Knight/Ranger could also get into Ghost-Faced Killer or Dread Commando. Interesting little-known tidbit... by RAW, being invisible does not violate the Knight's Code.

Sploosh
2009-10-18, 05:36 PM
Swordsages have a shadowhand manuver (as stated above) that allows them to have greater invisiblity just Ghost Step, as well as plenty of other fun stealthy manuevers and the also above noted assassin's stance allows a swordsage to sync up beautifully (almost poetically) with a rogue who has Sudden Strike +1.