What exactly is the afterlife system in Oots/DnD?

[The Pale King]

We've only gotten to see one afterlife in the comic? What exactly are the other afterlives? Who gets to go there? What happens there? Etc, Etc. Could someone more enlightened on something like this fill me in?

[The Dark Fiddler]

They're completely different between OotS and D&D, I think. Using one to answer what the other is like wouldn't work. Like a mortician trying to perform Open Heart Surgery.

But I know nothing of either, so meh.

[The Pale King]

They're completely different between OotS and D&D, I think. Using one to answer what the other is like wouldn't work. Like a mortician trying to perform Open Heart Surgery.

But I know nothing of either, so meh.
I thought it was the same for both.

[Shale]

The standard D&D afterlife is close to the one Rich showed for Roy - your spirit is sent to a different plane of existence depending on your alignment. The twist OotS seems to throw in, judging from what Eugene said and how Roy's experience played out, is that when you die, you always go to the afterlife for your stated alignment, and once there, you're evaluated based on how well you measured up to that alignment and either let in or sent elsewhere. The holding area where new souls are judged are also separated by religion, even though the afterlife planes themselves aren't (see: Roy's climb up the mountain, which included at least one worshiper of the Twelve Gods).

[Katana_Geldar]

Characters seem to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html) know this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html) too (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html)

[Eldan]

In standard DnD, there are seventeen outer planes: one for each of the nine main alignments (lawful-neutral-chaotic times good-neutral-evil) and then eight planes which are in between the other alingnments. The upper or good planes are generally more heaven-like (Arcadia, Mount Celestia, Bytopia, Elysium, Beastlands, Arborea and Ysgard), while the evil ones are one or the other version of hell or the underworld (Acheron, Baator, Gehenna, Hades, Carceri, Abyss, Pandemonium). Good planes range from eternal vigilance and fighting against evil to eternal peace to neverending party. Evil planes range from hellish bureaucracy to endless monotony and emotionlessness to neverending war and slaughter.
There are also the neutral planes of Mechanus, Outlands and Limbo.
Now, you are normally sent to the plane and domain of your god, if you have one and he claims your soul, or to the plane of your alingment, if you don't or he doesn't want you. That's why Roy was sent to Celestia, the good plane.
One point to understand is that getting sent to hell isn't actually all punishment: the domains of the evil gods can be quite rewarding for evil characters. And hell itself tends to involve torture at first, but you can generally climb the ranks or kill the one above you.

[dps]

We've only gotten to see one afterlife in the comic?

I'd say that the answer to this part of the question is that Roy is the only core character to have died.

I suspect that if it hadn't been intended that Roy would be raised or ressurected, we wouldn't have seen him in the afterlife.

[Katana_Geldar]

Though the Giant has said that showing Belkar's afterlife would be rather good.

[Elan's Modron]

In a multiverse where people know they're going to an afterlife they deserve (to quote Roy) - I'm curious why more people aren't dissuaded away from Evil.
What does (even) Xykon call the Lower Planes- the Big Fire Below? Something like that.

Sure you can advance from the state of a lemure or manes or what have you- but in traditional D&D that's usually assumed to take millennia. And only an infinitesimal number of damned souls do advance. And there are all sorts of risks in the meantime. And I forget what the next step up the baatezu/tanar'ri ladder is- but it's still pretty awful. Your existence pretty much sucks big time, about as hard as it can.

Yet even Belkar believes/knows that Chaotic Good folks get to drink single malt scotch and smoke stogies made from poorly-worded legal documents. Doesn't that sound like something Belkar would enjoy? Plus, even LAWFUL Good folks get tons of nookie (evidence the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands), let alone, presumably, the Chaotic Good people. I know Belkar isn't the most thoughtful of people, to say the least- but god knows he has a more than healthy sense of self-interest. So- you'd think knowledge of the Big Fire Down Below waiting for you would scare at least some people straight, right? Not to mention the incentive of the 24/7 Party up in the Good Planes...

[Jallorn]

Eh, most evil characters are higher level. Therefore they, while still being rare, have the capability to ascend. I could see Belkar eventually becoming an actual god of death. I think he could too.

[Forbiddenwar]

In a multiverse where people know they're going to an afterlife they deserve (to quote Roy) - I'm curious why more people aren't dissuaded away from Evil.
What does (even) Xykon call the Lower Planes- the Big Fire Below? Something like that.

Sure you can advance from the state of a lemure or manes or what have you- but in traditional D&D that's usually assumed to take millennia. And only an infinitesimal number of damned souls do advance. And there are all sorts of risks in the meantime. And I forget what the next step up the baatezu/tanar'ri ladder is- but it's still pretty awful. Your existence pretty much sucks big time, about as hard as it can.

Yet even Belkar believes/knows that Chaotic Good folks get to drink single malt scotch and smoke stogies made from poorly-worded legal documents. Doesn't that sound like something Belkar would enjoy? Plus, even LAWFUL Good folks get tons of nookie (evidence the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands), let alone, presumably, the Chaotic Good people. I know Belkar isn't the most thoughtful of people, to say the least- but god knows he has a more than healthy sense of self-interest. So- you'd think knowledge of the Big Fire Down Below waiting for you would scare at least some people straight, right? Not to mention the incentive of the 24/7 Party up in the Good Planes...

Being good for the party in the after life isn't being good at all. It'll get you shelved into True Neutral.
That and why spend a whole life of self sacrifice on the hopes that the deva won't screw you for a small mistake and get in the party house, when you can PARTY RIGHT NOW! WOO!

[Asta Kask]

We can be fairly certain from :xykon:'s word that the lower planes are unpleasant. "Anything to avoid the great fire below"...

[Zxo]

Yet even Belkar believes/knows that Chaotic Good folks get to drink single malt scotch and smoke stogies made from poorly-worded legal documents. Doesn't that sound like something Belkar would enjoy? Plus, even LAWFUL Good folks get tons of nookie (evidence the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands), let alone, presumably, the Chaotic Good people. I know Belkar isn't the most thoughtful of people, to say the least- but god knows he has a more than healthy sense of self-interest. So- you'd think knowledge of the Big Fire Down Below waiting for you would scare at least some people straight, right? Not to mention the incentive of the 24/7 Party up in the Good Planes...

I think OotS/DnD alignment isn't a choice - you are born with it (see teenage Xykon in SoD) or aquire it early in life, influenced by family and environment. If there's a change later, it is a result of overwhelming, dramatic circumstances (Redckloak? The Dark One?), but most people do not get situations like that in their life and it rarely happens. Acting, prentending, not being yourself won't help - devas who do the judging can see the motivations behind one's deeds. If someone is evil, acting good out of self-interest won't help them in the afterlife, so why would they suffer instead of having fun? Belkar is also chaotic, which means he doesn't give much thought to his future and follows his impulses.

[Reluctance]

I'm curious why more people aren't dissuaded away from Evil.
What does (even) Xykon call the Lower Planes- the Big Fire Below? Something like that.

Assuming you get to keep your personality in OOTSverse - and the souls bound to V lead me to believe you do - are you telling me somebody like Belkar wouldn't prefer the afterlife where he can go around stabbing anybody weaker than him with impunity? Granted, most evil people will be at the bottom of the scrap heap. But people in general and evil people even moreso tend to see themselves as better than everybody around them. Your lower plane of choice is just where they get to put that philosophy to the test.

Xykon is an even better example of this sort of thing. As far as he's convinced, he's never going to have to pay the piper. If you never have to worry about natural death and believe you're too powerful to suffer violent death, why not do what pleases you?

So evil characters will either believe they have the drive and skill to make it in the end, the ego to believe they'll never actually reach the end, and/or they're whackjob cultists who believe they'll be specially rewarded by their god when the time comes. Reality will come as a hard slap in the face to most evil characters, but there's always somebody thinking he can beat the odds.

[Cracklord]

Not a chance. You start as a dretch or a lemure. If you are lucky. Making you what other demons call 'ammunition.' The abyss is the quintessential pyramid scheme. In theory, everyone can get to the top, but there are only so many places, and so many people trying. Even Orchus started out as a Dretch, and he was evil on a level that Belkar couldn't even understand, or even Xykon couldn't understand, and powerful on a far higher level then both of them. A different order of being.

He will then be put in one of the countless wars taking place on the abyss. If he's lucky. If he's not, he will be given a permanent position as a demons punching bag, where he will suffer horrendously. They will humiliate you, debase you, and perform atrocities on you as a way to relieve monotony. Including but not limited to conventional torture, rape, and eating your memories, destroying your identity. Not out of spite or malice, but as a way to alleviate boredom.

If he is sent to the warfront, he will either be fighting evils in the blood war, which will mean being whipped by armies that believe Geneva to be a meaningless collection of syllables, who hate you, and who win the vast majority of the wars, or to fight another Demonlord, which is even worse. Chances are it will be the latter.

Most of these wars will lead to you dying in horrific ways, or being taken prisoner and either dying in even more horrific, drawn out ways or being re educated, tortured, and forced to fight for your captors.

After a few thousand years he has a chance of becoming a higher level demon. Except the thing about the Abyss is: There is always someone bigger. And even if he somehow becomes a demon lord, he'll find that they don't enjoy themselves either. They spend every moment shoring up their defenses knowing if they are perceived as weak they'll be crushed, and all their indulgences have lost their flavor, every second is fearing to lose your power, and your existence is totally meaningless and purposeless. And if you try to leave, you will be killed by Celestials or taken by demons and kept alive. And given to Belial, who is basically a perverted psychopath, who uses rape and torture as a means of establishing dominance to force people to act a certain way, crushes their individualism, and eventually makes them long for the pain because it is the only thing that gives meaning to them anymore. And he has had millennia to perfect his technique, and he's not the worst thing around.


I posted this on another thread. It's obviously not in line with Oots, for one thing outsiders seem to be concepts rather then souls, but it's pretty much correct in account of the abyss.

Basically, you become a petitioner, and eventually become an outsider. However, you seem to keep you personality in Oots verse, so it obviously uses different rules. Still, this happening to Belkar makes my soul dance and sing in delight.


In a multiverse where people know they're going to an afterlife they deserve (to quote Roy) - I'm curious why more people aren't dissuaded away from Evil.
What does (even) Xykon call the Lower Planes- the Big Fire Below? Something like that.

Sure you can advance from the state of a lemure or manes or what have you- but in traditional D&D that's usually assumed to take millennia. And only an infinitesimal number of damned souls do advance. And there are all sorts of risks in the meantime. And I forget what the next step up the baatezu/tanar'ri ladder is- but it's still pretty awful. Your existence pretty much sucks big time, about as hard as it can.

Yet even Belkar believes/knows that Chaotic Good folks get to drink single malt scotch and smoke stogies made from poorly-worded legal documents. Doesn't that sound like something Belkar would enjoy? Plus, even LAWFUL Good folks get tons of nookie (evidence the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands), let alone, presumably, the Chaotic Good people. I know Belkar isn't the most thoughtful of people, to say the least- but god knows he has a more than healthy sense of self-interest. So- you'd think knowledge of the Big Fire Down Below waiting for you would scare at least some people straight, right? Not to mention the incentive of the 24/7 Party up in the Good Planes...

Instant gratification. Most murderers will be caught and punished, and the knowledge of this doesn't stop them. Most evil is justifiable, so the performer does not think of it as evil, or too stupid to care about the consequences. I mean, Xykon is certifiably insane, and the reason Belkar doesn't wear shoes is probably because he can't figure out how to tie his shoelaces.

Neither of them are thinking about the long term types. Xykon essentially lets Redcloak do the majority of the thinking and just goes along with it, and Belkar is a pathetic little hedonist.

Redcloak a.) has his god to look after him, and b.) views his own life as a sacrifice for the greater good. Whether or not this is actually the case is open to debate, but he sees it that way, or at least tells himself that he does.
The thieves guild work on the principal that the world is pretty crapsack, and they are just doing what they can to survive. They are examples on instant gratification. I like smoking, who cares if in forty years some total stranger dies of lug cancer? This is a pretty common mentality, even in our world.

Then there are monsters like goblins who are evil by design, and the gods made them that way.

[Bibliomancer]

One of the interesting things about the afterlife is that petitioners (spirits of that plane, mentioned in manual of the planes) maintain their power and abilities (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html) instead of being converted to 2 HD outsiders with their own appearance but no class abilities and limited racial abilities. These are then assumed to be converted into low level outsiders (lantern archons/lemures/dretches) after a eriod of time, with the evil conversion process being far more efficient than the good one, meaning that evil outnumbers good in terms of cannon fodder but not higher levels.

Also, Celestia is far more petitioner-oriented in OotS than normal DnD, where the first level consists primarily of walls and various defenses against attack (plus the realms of a few aggressive gods).

[Zanaril]

I posted this on another thread. It's obviously not in line with Oots, for one thing outsiders seem to be concepts rather then souls, but it's pretty much correct in account of the abyss.

Basically, you become a petitioner, and eventually become an outsider. However, you seem to keep you personality in Oots verse, so it obviously uses different rules. Still, this happening to Belkar makes my soul dance and sing in delight.
Here's something I've never understood: If evil characters are tuned into lemures and their personalities are wiped blank the moment they arrive in their afterlife, how can they be raised/ressurected? :smallconfused:

[Cracklord]

Here's something I've never understood: If evil characters are tuned into lemures and their personalities are wiped blank the moment they arrive in their afterlife, how can they be raised/ressurected? :smallconfused:

Well, it takes time. They still have their memories as Petitioners, but they burn for a few years in the lake of fire, and the pain redefines them, and burns away their identity. A similar thing in the abyss, but less symbolic, more simply being always under heel and knocked around. And generic acid instead of air, and being eaten alive by maggots, that sort of thing (Lawful evil is a lot worse then Chaotic evil in terms of punishment. If you don't believe me, read about Belial).

The memories get divided and dropped into the river Styx, where they will eventually get eaten by Leviathan or other creatures that live in there, and the purity of the soul gets eaten by Asmodeas (In a time frame directly correlating with the amount of time Raise dead and Resurrection work).
True Resurrection does not actually get the same soul, it makes a new one from scratch, with the same memories, replacing any that are lost, and destroys the old one, and I'm pretty sure Wish and miracle do the same thing. If it can't, the spell doesn't work.

Same thing in the upper planes, except you get utter bliss instead of pain. I mean, if you were living an eternity in what Roy saw, how long would you bother to remember your life?

The only exception are clerics and particularly devout individuals, who go to a gods home, and live in paradise for eternity. Worshiping it, their belief strengthening it.

When you have no memory at all, nothing to tie you back, you merge with the plane, and get rebuilt as an outsider. Of course, it's not 'you' alone. One dretch has about ten souls who don't even realize they are independently sentient, or even separate, and have no separate identities.

Same for Celestia, eventually you get taken to the top, a bit of your soul is siphoned by the authority Zaphariel, you become totally enlightened, merge with the plane, and get remade into an Archon.

Might have changed in fourth Edition, of course.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0605ex_98480.jpgSo Belkar does not have anything to look forward to in the next life.

[Maximum Zersk]

True Resurrection does not actually get the same soul, it makes a new one from scratch, with the same memories, replacing any that are lost, and destroys the old one, and I'm pretty sure Wish and miracle do the same thing. If it can't, the spell doesn't work.


You know, I've always found that creepy. Since, if you are you're soul, that would mean it makes a copy of you, and then erases you from existence. I don't think it would be fun to be erased from existence. It would be like, you see someone that looks EXACTLY like you take your place in the universe, steal your identity. Then you have ten or so seconds to feel the feel the despair of Extreme Identity Theft before you can't. You'll be gone. Erased from all existence. And no one would notice, cause the copy soul would take your place.

[Cracklord]

You know, I've always found that creepy. Since, if you are you're soul, that would mean it makes a copy of you, and then erases you from existence. I don't think it would be fun to be erased from existence. It would be like, you see someone that looks EXACTLY like you take your place in the universe, steal your identity. Then you have ten or so seconds to feel the feel the despair of Extreme Identity Theft before you can't. You'll be gone. Erased from all existence. And no one would notice, cause the copy soul would take your place.

Your identity is pretty much gone by that point anyway, if they need to use true resurrection.

[Maximum Zersk]

Your identity is pretty much gone by that point anyway, if they need to use true resurrection.

Ah, good point. It would still be creepy to be erased, though. (No! Crtl-Alt-Del bad for your health!)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Wait, so basically if you're resurrected, you're not the one being resurrected, but basically your soul is run through a fax machine and it's the fax that gets resurrected?

(If this is true, then that brings up an interesting question: When something is faxed over and over again, the quality starts to degrade. So if someone is resurrected over and over again, would they start to "degrade" as well?)

[industrious]

I thought that would be the level drain.

[Cracklord]

Wait, so basically if you're resurrected, you're not the one being resurrected, but basically your soul is run through a fax machine and it's the fax that gets resurrected?

(If this is true, then that brings up an interesting question: When something is faxed over and over again, the quality starts to degrade. So if someone is resurrected over and over again, would they start to "degrade" as well?)

You lose a level every time you are resurrected, or a point of Constitution if you don't have a level to lose. So yes, that is what happens.

[Hardcore]

So, was that what happened to Roy?

[Turkish Delight]

So, was that what happened to Roy?

Maybe according to 'standard' AD&D, but pretty clearly that isn't how the Giant is presenting it. Unless Roy got shredded and replaced in that limo.

[hamishspence]

Even for outsiders, the dissipation is not irreversible.

it says in Complete Divine that the True Ressurrection spell "sifts through the plane and reconstitutes the soul and personality"

So, its still the same soul- it just needed to be "put back together again"

[Larkspur]

What happens to the dretch that got an eighth of its being stripped away when you cast the spell?

[Kish]

What happens to the dretch that got an eighth of its being stripped away when you cast the spell?
The other demons laugh at it.

[Cracklord]

What happens to the dretch that got an eighth of its being stripped away when you cast the spell?

Doubt that happens very often. How many people can afford true resurrection?

[Bibliomancer]

Based on various DnD sources I've read, I'm fairly certain that not all souls become outsiders. A lot of them on the good planes merge with the plane itself and become trees or rocks (with the celestial template, if it matters) or part of the overall background happiness. On the lower planes, I assume that their memories do the same thing, although their souls are converted to soldiers more often.

Stated another way, anyone can be a dretch, but only very pure individuals can become an archon, guardinal, or eladrin.

If more energy is devoted to the plane in the Upper Planes, this might explain why the Lower Planes are so hostile: they're basically vacuum with a thin veneer of painful memories and so are still very good at hurting inhabitants without any assistance from the denizens of the plane.

[HenryHankovitch]

The memories get divided and dropped into the river Styx, where they will eventually get eaten by Leviathan or other creatures that live in there, and the purity of the soul gets eaten by Asmodeas (In a time frame directly correlating with the amount of time Raise dead and Resurrection work).
True Resurrection does not actually get the same soul, it makes a new one from scratch, with the same memories, replacing any that are lost, and destroys the old one, and I'm pretty sure Wish and miracle do the same thing. If it can't, the spell doesn't work.


[citation needed]

[Cracklord]

The description for True ressurection is in the players handdbook, 3.5.

The River Styx is made up of memories according to the manuel of the planes. It causes amnesia to living people as it drains them out, and a bunc h of outsiders who patrol it's borders are crazy as a result of their emmersion (Fiend Folio)

I can't remember where I got the bit about Leviathen eating memories, Asmodeas eating souls is comon knowledge, but is outlined in just about every book he's in.

Good enough for you, or do you want me to rustle up quotes?

[HenryHankovitch]

The description for True ressurection is in the players handdbook, 3.5.


Allow me:


This spell functions like raise dead, except that you can resurrect a creature that has been dead for as long as 10 years per caster level. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method).

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of level (or Constitution points) or prepared spells.

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Even true resurrection can’t restore to life a creature who has died of old age.

There's nothing there about "cloning" or copying the soul. Frankly, there's nothing there about how the soul is recovered at all; so whatever whacky interpretation you prefer is your perogative--but it remains your own.

The bit about not being able to true-rez someone who died of old age actually implies the opposite: that the spell really does retrieve your 'true' soul, and as such cannot do anything to bring back someone whose mortal time is up (in the Natural Order of the World sense).

[hamishspence]

this sounds right.

Complete Divine does split "regular souls" which just float around doing nothing much, and eventually get absorbed into the plane, from the "exceptionally devoted" who become petitioners, which can (slowly) progress of the ranking order.

OoTS seems to follow a similar system- Roy and his family (and many of the others) appear to reatin their forms and memories- but there is also the lantern archon (petitioner of Celestia) who, while not allowed up to the top of Celestia, helps guide Roy around, and things like that.

The biggest difference, is that unlike Complete Divine, where it seems to imply that souls can't really interact much with living creatures, fight them, etc, Roy can certainly fight the Evil Party which attack him.

[Optimystik]

What happens to the dretch that got an eighth of its being stripped away when you cast the spell?

If you've become a dretch, it's already too late. FC2: "mortals who are imprisoned in Baator, regardless of the reason why, cannot be raised or resurrected." To become a dretch requires the torture chambers, which first requires imprisonment.

There is a small window of time between a soul's arrival in Hell and the torture necessary to turn it into a Dretch, however, and the soul can be resurrected then. Attempting to do so triggers quite a dramatic scene in a devilish courtroom.

[hamishspence]

Lemure, not dretch. Lemures are nearly shapeless blobs of flesh- mindless.

Dretches (and the even weaker manes which get promoted to dretches) are Abyssal- and not as shapeless.

[Optimystik]

Lemure, not dretch. Lemures are nearly shapeless blobs of flesh- mindless.

Dretches (and the even weaker manes which get promoted to dretches) are Abyssal- and not as shapeless.

Either way, by the time you get to either form you'd have lost any semblance of identity to make you resurrectable.

[hamishspence]

If you believe Complete Divine, that applies to all petitioners.

page 130:


When You Can't Come Back

In general, souls have the choice of whether or not to respond to resurrection magic; D&D is a game, after all, and they player of the deceased character wants to participate. But sometimes a particular character can't come back, so the player starts playing a new character.

Characters who die of old age can't come back from the dead, even with true resurrection,wich, or miracle spells. Their souls have grown too fragile to survive the trip back into the body.

Characters who have been granted new bodies as petitioners can't come back from the dead, because the creation of a petitioner effectively returns them to life. They're new creatures with at least some memories- but none of the abilities or skills- from their former lives. Of course, as the DM, you can decide that things work differently in your own campaign if you wish.

That makes me wonder- are soul shells "souls" or "petitioners" ? I think Manual of the Planes and Fiendish Codex 2 both call them petitioners- which might explain why Baator can hold them , even before the lemure transformation.

Maybe, when you manage to persuade the devils to release a soul shell, they "kill" the petitioner, thus releasing a "free soul" onto Baator, to answer the call.

Roy is an example of a Soul, but Roy's Archon is an example of a Petitioner.

Maybe the time limit on True Resurrection covers the expected time taken before an adventurer's Soul becomes a petitioner?

[Optimystik]

I always figured that the resurrection deadlines only covered the amount of time before the deceased is assimilated into the plane too completely to be reconstituted; they would thus be independent of other external circumstances, such as being locked up on Dis or munched on by the flora on Malebolge.. This would also allow such deadlines to continue to apply to a game that doesn't use FC2 at all, such as a core-only one.

[hamishspence]

Possible.

I do think though, that there in an overattachment to core- when people go so far as to say:

"DMG doesn't mention petitioners in its descriptions of the Outer Planes- therefore they do not exist in core- Manual of the planes is optional- and cannot be taken as an "official" description of what the planes are like"


they are missing the point of splatbooks- they describe the "D&D world" of the novels.

[Kish]

I always figured that the resurrection deadlines only covered the amount of time before the deceased is assimilated into the plane too completely to be reconstituted; they would thus be independent of other external circumstances, such as being locked up on Dis or munched on by the flora on Malebolge.. This would also allow such deadlines to continue to apply to a game that doesn't use FC2 at all, such as a core-only one.
The trouble with that is, the variable amount of time it's possible to resurrect someone has everything to do with the resurrecting priest and nothing to do with the person to be resurrected.

In other words, why has the same person been dissolved beyond recovery after 170 years for one cleric, but not until after 300 years for another cleric?

[hamishspence]

Power- the trick of "reconstitution" is a difficult one- and lower level clerics just don't have the same knack as high level ones.

Deities can override normal rules though- for example, according to Complete Divine, Sphere of Annihilation destroys the soul. Yet a deity can stop that soul from being destroyed.

The phrasing is "Only the direct intervention of a deity can restore a destroyed character"- suggesting that it can "un-destroy" the destroyed soul.