Help building the ultimate crazed sword-swinger.

[Kulture]

I'm trying to build a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker who wields a Fullblade (likely huge, via magic items) and need general advice as to useful feats/items.
And I most of all Need help allocating stats.
I'm used to either playing 1 stat characters, or using the random roll system.
I have the character fluff all perfect, I just need more crunch, and the harder I can hit with that Fullblade the better.

All I know for a fact is that FB will be the full 10 levels, that he will be Human and likely wear dragoncraft fullplate.

I know about the belt of battle and all of it's double full-attacking goodness, and about haste as an enchant, breaking the action economy so wizards don't have to.

EWP: fullblade, power attack, cleave and the rest of the FB reqs are definate feats, not sure about the rest.

I'm generally useless at building adequately crunchy characters.

Level wise, likely 15 or 20, advice on either would be excellent.

Style wise, I want to build a character mad enough and strong enough to cut a dragon/wyvern out of the air when it's in mid flight, having the damage to back up his attack.

If you need to know more, just tell me.

Any advice will be welcomed with open arms.

[mostlyharmful]

look up ubercharger on the WotC old forums for a guide to dishing out ridiculous damage, Shock trooper, Power Attack and Leap Attack being the bedrock of the build with a way to get miss chances instead of AC to make sure you don't die instantly.

Edit: Here's a useful thread on the subject. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118401)

[Eldariel]

Get a Valorous [Unapproachable East] weapon. +1 enhancement that doubles damage on a charge. You also absolutely need Shock Trooper & Leap Attack. I suggest getting Enlarged and using Strongarm Bracers for a Huge Fullblade (4d8 base damage I think). That said, when you Shock Trooper for ~80 extra per hit, that'll really be trivial. Then you take Lion Totem Barbarian ACF [Complete Champion] to get full attack on a charge.

Really, reach weapon would be much better as that'd give you much better cleaving and a better chance of not taking obscene damage (thanks to AoOs; btw, Combat Reflexes is a hawt feat), but if Fullblade is important, you can make do with it. You'll need Extra Rage [Complete Warrior] to Rage often enough and probably some Fighter-levels to cover all the feats you need. You definitely should pick up Steadfast Determination [Player's Handbook II] for your Will-save, along with Crystalmask of Mindarmor (http://www.rnrh.net/images/blog/monkey_steals_the_peach.png) and big Cloak of Resistance.


Then just Cloak of Displacement, huge Con- and Str-booster items, Boots of Speed (so you don't need Haste cast on you), and maybe Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) over standard Rage; extra attack, less HP. Interesting trade-off, though while it gives you extra damage, you may not need it.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Human huh? I figured that (for maximum ouch) one would go for a Half-Minotaur Goliath, or something, so as to be able to wield a Huge Fullblade with a 10 foot reach.

[Fax Celestis]

Monkey Grip a Large Fullblade, and then use enlarge person or enlarge weapon (from a wand in a wand chamber in your fullblade ) for another size increase.

Yes yes, monkey grip oh noes. Monkey grip is a perfectly suitable feat if you stack it with other size increasers--by itself, it sucks. With other stuff, it's power increases nicely.

[Eldariel]

Monkey Grip a Large Fullblade, and then use enlarge person or enlarge weapon (from a wand in a wand chamber in your fullblade ) for another size increase.

Yes yes, monkey grip oh noes. Monkey grip is a perfectly suitable feat if you stack it with other size increasers--by itself, it sucks. With other stuff, it's power increases nicely.

Or just use Strongarm Bracers which is Monkey Grip without penalties or feat cost for 8000gp.

[Ernir]

Or just use Strongarm Bracers which is Monkey Grip without penalties or feat cost for 8000gp.

Why not both?

Monkey Grip stinks for medium-sized creatures, but when we are stacking size increases on a Fullblade, we are getting an extra 2d8 for that -2 penalty. I've seen worse PA returns.

I'm still not sure I would spend a feat on it on a build that is going to get most of its damage from Shock Leaping no matter what, but it is hardly horrible.

[Fax Celestis]

Why not both?

Bracers and feat both use "as one size larger than you" text. They therefore don't stack.

EDIT: The reason I recommend the feat is because it is available at first(?) level, while the bracers can't reasonably be obtained until like seventh or eighth.

[Ernir]

Bracers and feat both use "as one size larger than you" text. They therefore don't stack.

EDIT: The reason I recommend the feat is because it is available at first(?) level, while the bracers can't reasonably be obtained until like seventh or eighth.

Ah. Damn, did not notice that. :smallfrown:

Monkey Grip only requires BAB +1, so you can get that at first level.

[Mongoose87]

Or just use Strongarm Bracers which is Monkey Grip without penalties or feat cost for 8000gp.

I loves me some Strongarm Bracers!

[Eldariel]

Bracers and feat both use "as one size larger than you" text. They therefore don't stack.

EDIT: The reason I recommend the feat is because it is available at first(?) level, while the bracers can't reasonably be obtained until like seventh or eighth.

I strongly suggest against the feat. On first level, you don't want to be taking static -2 to all your attacks; it can actually lower your average damage vs. many opponents. Using it is not optional (other than switching between weapons, which causes all others kinds of trouble, particularly around 3-4 where you start getting magic weapons but can only afford one).

Oh, and feats are pretty fcking important, particularly in Frenzied Berserker that has 4 prerequisites and 3 other must-feats (needs Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage and REALLY wants Shock Trooper, Leap Attack & Steadfast Determination and that's with two unmentioned prerequisites and Extra Rage still in the mix). No, I don't think you'll be affording Monkey Grip on level 1.

[Fax Celestis]

...what I mean is, "Take the feat if you can use it to stack another size increase". If you can't, skip it.

[Eldariel]

...what I mean is, "Take the feat if you can use it to stack another size increase". If you can't, skip it.

But even then, it's just +1d8 or average 4.5 damage. 2d8 > 3d8 > 4d8 for Fullblade (or d6 for Greatsword); that's the largest Huge damages you can deal with weapons (outside full UA progression). To get the 9-point increase you need Gargantuan. I mean, it's still like PAing for 2 all the time.

Sure, it's not horrible but worth a feat? I mean, feats are just about the most precious commodity in the game.

[PinkysBrain]

You can always a Skin of Proteus for another size increase (ML7 limits you to Annis Hag or Phtisic or something). Just make sure you have an extra weapon as backup for fighting in AMF.

[Fax Celestis]

Absolutely. I told him to look into it, not that it was a must-have.

[Kulture]

Was tempted by Monkey grip, though I'd only seriously consider it if they removed the -2 and perhaps made it stack with strongarm gauntlets, maybe there could be an applied strength requirement, see how negotiation goes I suppose.

Human fullblade wielder are requirements for the fluff, unfortunately.
Uber charger sound brilliant, though if I can angle for flaws, I'll meet requirements more quickly.

It all comes down to stats and DM permission.
Which is the clincher, currently.
What would you suggest for stats on say, a 25 point buy?

[PinkysBrain]

Depends, can you get the skin of proteus?

[Eldariel]

I'd go 17 Str/14 Dex/14 Con/8 Int/8 Wis/8 Cha; it's 25pb so you can't be expecting much (form-changing can help, of course). Good news is that this qualifies you for all feats of interest (other than Combat Expertise-derived ones, but they shouldn't really interest you anyways; Improved Trip you can actually pick up through Wolf-totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) if you feel so inclined).

Bad news is that you only have 14 Con and 17 Str. But that's the best 25pb does. This does mean the Intimidation you get from Intimidating Rage is going to be most useless, but again, 25pb means you can't be expecting much. This also makes Steadfast Determination an absolute must.


Feat-wise, you'll be crammed. Assuming 2 Fighter-levels and maybe 3 Ranger or 2 Monk-levels or some such in addition to your Barbarian, you can get ~4-5 bonus feats in addition to 1 from Human and 7 from levels.

You need:
Power Attack
Cleave
Intimidating Rage
Destructive Rage

for Frenzied Berserker.

Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper
Leap Attack

for charging.

Endurance
Steadfast Determination

to not kill your allies.

EWP: Fullblade

'cause you wanted a Fullblade (note though that if you have access to Dragon Magazine, Exoticist Fighter gets exotic weapon proficiency for free).

Extra Rage

'cause you wanna Rage occasionally too.


So yeah, that's 11 feats. You can barely get all you want around 12. I'd frankly start off with a 2-level Monk dip for the base Will-saves and feats, before going Chaotic into Barbarian and Fighter and ultimately Frenzied Berserker.

Overwhelming Attack Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#overwhelmingAttack) 2/Barbarian 3/Fighter (preferably Exoticist; see Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php)) 2/Frenzied Berserker -> seems like a good shell, for example. Feats go as follows:

1. Endurance
Monk1. Power Attack
H. Steadfast Determination
Monk2. Improved Bull Rush
3. Intimidating Rage
6. Destructive Rage
Fighter1. Shock Trooper
Exoticist Bonus. EWP: Fullblade
Fighter2. Cleave
9. Leap Attack
12. Extra Rage


Your Will-save on level 10 with +2 Con, Crystalmask of Mindarmor and Cloak of Resistance +3 means +3 Will from Con, +4 from Crystalmask and +3 Resistance along with +5-+6 (depending on whether you use fractional saves or not) Base = +15-+16; you still need Heroism for +2 Morale or some such to reach a reasonable number. Cloak of Resistance +4 and +4 Con item are both doable too for +2 more provided you have an item crafter.

You need +18 Will and something to reroll 1s (Luckblade would be a good possession, though getting Pride-domain might be the best option; you'll be rolling it a lot so 1/day abilities might not cut it - could consider an extra level of Cleric over 3rd Barbarian level for e.g. Pride & Animal/Strength/whatever [for Devotions]-domains, though that requires fractional BAB to not postpone your FB entry, but if you have fractionals, GO FOR IT). The more the merrier, of course.