Top Web Comic

[bigdaddy1274]

Hello, I have been a fan of OOTS for a long time and I created this account to ask this question.

Where is the vote button for OOTS to be a top web comic?

If you go to http://topwebcomics.com/default.aspx you can see that OOTS is currently ranked 62nd.

I know we can do better then that.

Please, someone put one of those buttons up so we can skyrocket OOTS to the top of the list.

For the record I am in no way affiliated with the website. I just think this comic deserves more recognition for all the laughs it has brought to me and all the friends I told they HAD to start following this webcomic.

Thank you.

[Porthos]

Hello, I have been a fan of OOTS for a long time and I created this account to ask this question.

Where is the vote button for OOTS to be a top web comic?

If you go to http://topwebcomics.com/default.aspx you can see that OOTS is currently ranked 62nd.

I know we can do better then that.

Please, someone put one of those buttons up so we can skyrocket OOTS to the top of the list.

For the record I am in no way affiliated with the website. I just think this comic deserves more recognition for all the laughs it has brought to me and all the friends I told they HAD to start following this webcomic.

Thank you.

Rich used to do Vote Buttons a long time ago. Before my time here, so I don't know which ones. All I do know is that he was habitually at the very top of the Rankings List for a long long time.

And once he had crushed the competition beneath his feat, he stopped.

I guess he figured he got enough traffic that he didn't need no stinkin' vote button anymore. :smalltongue:

PS: In case you didn't know, as I understand it, this comic gets in the hundreds of thousands of web vistors (if not more). So I don't think Rich exactly needs to advertise. :smallamused:

PPS: He also probably doesn't want to spend any time on "Vote Incentives" which are a hallmark for clicks over at places like TWC. Guy's busy enough as it is, after all. :smallwink:

[Liwen]

I agree with Porthos entirely here. I vote button would simply be a waste of time and computing resources. Also, we have to give the other webcomics a chance to be discovered.

I have know idea how much Rich's coffers are full, but with his current fan base, I'm willing to bet he's well over the average annual income per citizen.

Here some food for research on google, how much can you earn has a pro web cartoonist?

[Forbiddenwar]

I agree with Porthos entirely here. I vote button would simply be a waste of time and computing resources. Also, we have to give the other webcomics a chance to be discovered.

I have know idea how much Rich's coffers are full, but with his current fan base, I'm willing to bet he's well over the average annual income per citizen.

Here some food for research on google, how much can you earn has a pro web cartoonist?

Note, there are no advertisements on the Playground, so that affects any calculations.

[Porthos]

Note, there are no advertisements on the Playground, so that affects any calculations.

Yeah, I think getting into a discussion about the Giant's Finances (including musing on the whys and wherefore of his business model), no matter how well intentioned, is getting into dangerous territory.

So I think I'll sit that part of the discussion out. :smallsmile:

======

However, Liwen, you might want to look at the list of self-sufficient webcomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-sufficient_webcomics) over at Wikipedia. From there, you might be able to find links that could answer your question more throughly.

Alternatively, if you're ever at a con, you can try to talk to webcomic artists out there and see what they have to say about the subject. :smallsmile:

[Liwen]

ohh I like the 'going to con idea' when and where is the next one?

[Porthos]

ohh I like the 'going to con idea' when and where is the next one?

I'm not quite sure I understand your question, I'm afraid. :smallsmile: Conventions happen all the time, all over the place. Some large, most small to mid sized.

If you were wondering specifically about Rich, well, sad to say, but he isn't doing cons right now due to his health. But if you meant any reasonably successful webcomic artist that you happen to follow, then that's a different story.

I see from your profile that you live in Canada. Unfortunately, that doesn't really limit things too much. :smalltongue:

My suggestion would be to check the web to see if there are any conventions near you (or any big cities near you). Or perhaps check out local comic book stores/hobby shops and get info from them. Or you can just tell us what part of Canada you live in, and maybe someone who is familiar with conventions in Canada could tell you what cons are good in your area.

I'm afraid I know next to nothing about the convention circuit in Canada, but I'm sure that there's at least a couple people on this board who might know a thing or two about the subject. Especially the ones that are good, and the ones that you want to stay very far away from. :smallwink:

[Berserk Monk]

Goblins is ranked second? What? It has so many plot lines!

[spargel]

There aren't that many people who know much about D&D, so that's probably one of the reasons.

[Fitzclowningham]

Goblins is ranked second? What? It has so many plot lines!

Goblins' artist/writer, Thunt, actively solicits votes with incentives. I think it's quite good actually, but he wouldn't be getting the consistent 1-5 rankings he does without a large readership.

[[TS] Shadow]

Something tells me that this list isn't particularly worth it. Hell, xkcd isn't even in the top 100; you KNOW something's wrong with it.

[Maximum Zersk]

ohh I like the 'going to con idea' when and where is the next one?

Depends, which province do you live in?

I can only think of one con, but it's an Animecon, so pay no mind.

Whoo! Someone else from Canada, too!


Shadow;7150408]Something tells me that this list isn't particularly worth it. Hell, xkcd isn't even in the top 100; you KNOW something's wrong with it.


Maybe Randall should make a comic about him getting in the top 100, then? Then, like everything else in XKCD, it would actually happen! Lol.

[Berserk Monk]

There aren't that many people who know much about D&D, so that's probably one of the reasons.

A friend of mine that doesn't even play D&D turned me onto OotS. Most of the jokes don't require any knowledge of the D&D rules.


Goblins' artist/writer, Thunt, actively solicits votes with incentives. I think it's quite good actually, but he wouldn't be getting the consistent 1-5 rankings he does without a large readership.

But there are like a dozen stories: there's the anal dwarf paladin that kills anything not LG, there's the human fighter and dwarf cleric that killed the entire goblin village, there's the newly created PCs that used to be drow adventuring with the human and dwarf that killed all the goblins, there's the goblin with the magic metal orb raiding some tomb and the war between those goblins and hobgoblins, there's the other goblins rescuing Thako and whatever they were doing before that. I got fed up keeping track of plot lines and how none of them finish.

[KBF]

Eh, the Order of the Stick was the only real popular webcomic to be on those anyway. It's kind of established that any real, serious comic just doesn't go on those lists. There's no reason. The lists themselves are usually a joke. It'd be more effective if someone actually tried compiling a list of 100 professionally done, constantly updating webcomics themselves rather than trying to get some advertising money out of a voting based service.

[NerfTW]

I agree with KBF. Those lists became jokes ten years ago. Usually due to flame wars, rude maintainers, and just general ballot stuffing. Any serious webcomic relies on word of mouth and advertising these days.

The web has moved on from giant lists of links. Especially given both the sheer number of web comics out there now and the need to constantly prune the dead ones.

[Kish]

But there are like a dozen stories: there's the anal dwarf paladin that kills anything not LG, there's the human fighter and dwarf cleric that killed the entire goblin village, there's the newly created PCs that used to be drow adventuring with the human and dwarf that killed all the goblins, there's the goblin with the magic metal orb raiding some tomb and the war between those goblins and hobgoblins, there's the other goblins rescuing Thako and whatever they were doing before that. I got fed up keeping track of plot lines and how none of them finish.
To Hit Armor Klass 0?

It appears that not everyone agrees with your analysis (of the quality of Goblins).

[Zael Zuran]

To Hit Armor Klass 0?

It appears that not everyone agrees with your analysis (of the quality of Goblins).

I don't think he said anything about the overall quality of Goblins. Just that the lack of plot resolution wasn't his thing. An erratic plot has pretty much been established as fact when it comes to Thunt's writing.

I love Goblins, but come on...Its A.D.D. incarnate. I keep dreading when the current escape storyline is going to either: Cut to one of the many other subplots, or worse...introduce another new one out of the blue.

Its a fun read. But its got a real "oooh shiny!" problem.

[Kish]

I don't think he said anything about the overall quality of Goblins.

He expressed mystification that it could be ranked second. You don't consider that a statement about its overall quality? I disagree.

[spargel]

A friend of mine that doesn't even play D&D turned me onto OotS. Most of the jokes don't require any knowledge of the D&D rules.


That's just your friend. I'm not so sure about the majority of people.

Anyways, many of the jokes in the first few strips either require D&D knowledge to understand, or were old and only moderately funny.

[Nimrod's Son]

Anyways, many of the jokes in the first few strips either require D&D knowledge to understand, or were old and only moderately funny.
I disagree entirely. I've never played D&D at all, but I understood virtually everything. If you have decent general knowledge and a little experience in roleplaying games in general (even just videogames will do) then most of it is self-explanatory.

[Zeb The Troll]

Eh, the Order of the Stick was the only real popular webcomic to be on those anyway. It's kind of established that any real, serious comic just doesn't go on those lists. There's no reason. The lists themselves are usually a joke. It'd be more effective if someone actually tried compiling a list of 100 professionally done, constantly updating webcomics themselves rather than trying to get some advertising money out of a voting based service.Really? The only one?

The #1 comic, Phoenix Requiem, the second endeavor by the author of Inverloch (3 of the 5 volumes are currently published and available for purchase), is plainly amazing. It has a fascinating story, regular updates, and gorgeous artwork. You can't read that and tell me it's not a professional work.
The Dreamland Chronicles - updated daily for three years, at which point the author suffered a back injury and had to take some time off, but is back to being a regular M-F installment. This work claims a readership of over 10 million worldwide. Not popular?
Least I Could Do/Looking For Group - (LICD is admittedly no longer in the top 100, but like OotS it doesn't solicit votes any more) Ryan Sohmer and Lar DeSouza have recently opened a brick and mortar. Yes, they must be doing something wrong.
Girl Genious - "Winner of 3 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards for 2008, including: 'Outstanding Comic!'"
Questionable Content - a 1500 strip archive. Yeah, they're clearly not serious about it.
Goblins - Say what you will, he's got two books published and a large, dedicated fan base. It is successful enough that this is his living. I think that qualifies it as a "real, serious comic" even if it's not your cup of tea.

These are just some on the list that I've heard of and I regularly follow fewer than 10 webcomics. I'm sure others could point out many more.

[spargel]

I disagree entirely. I've never played D&D at all, but I understood virtually everything. If you have decent general knowledge and a little experience in roleplaying games in general (even just videogames will do) then most of it is self-explanatory.

Strip 1: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 2: Moderately funny.
Strip 3: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 4: Moderately funny.
Strip 5: The spot check joke again.

It gets a lot better after that, but it doesn't make that great of a first impression.

[Kaytara]

Strip 1: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 2: Moderately funny.
Strip 3: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 4: Moderately funny.
Strip 5: The spot check joke again.

It gets a lot better after that, but it doesn't make that great of a first impression.

How does that require DnD knowledge, specifically? I don't think one needs to be a DnD geek to understand what a "Spot check" and a "Listen check" may be referring to when it's clearly used to show that characters have failed to notice something obvious.

[spargel]

How does that require DnD knowledge, specifically? I don't think one needs to be a DnD geek to understand what a "Spot check" and a "Listen check" may be referring to when it's clearly used to show that characters have failed to notice something obvious.

Because then the joke becomes really flat.

[Porthos]

Because then the joke becomes really flat.

But what about all of the people who say that they aren't familiar with DnD and find the strip funny? I mean, isn't humor subjective and all.

Let's take this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0090.html).

Heavy on Rule Humor?

Yes.

Entierly self explanatory?

Also yes.

I suppose a basic familiiarity with role playing games or computer video games helps sell the joke. But, c'mon now, everything that needs to be known in that strip is there for the reader to figure out.

And I dare say that 95% of the rule based jokes in OotS are either self-explanatory (Reader: Hmmm "Listen Check"... I bet that has something to do with how well people can hear things) or just a fun bouns for people who are in on the joke.

It's the concept of Easter Eggs when it comes right down to it. People who aren't familiar with the concept won't even know that they're missing anything while people who are familiar get a fun little bonus.

To put it another way, there are many many testimonials out there from people who say that they aren't familiar with DnD at all, but that they still find the comic to be great.

There must be a reason for that. :smallwink:

[spargel]

But what about all of the people who say that they aren't familiar with DnD and find the strip funny? I mean, isn't humor subjective and all.

Let's take this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0090.html).

Heavy on Rule Humor?

Yes.

Entierly self explanatory?

Also yes.

I suppose a basic familiiarity with role playing games or computer video games helps sell the joke. But, c'mon now, everything that needs to be known in that strip is there for the reader to figure out.

And I dare say that 95% of the rule based jokes in OotS are either self-explanatory (Reader: Hmmm "Listen Check"... I bet that has something to do with how well people can hear things) or just a fun bouns for people who are in on the joke.

It's the concept of Easter Eggs when it comes right down to it. People who aren't familiar with the concept won't even know that they're missing anything while people who are familiar get a fun little bonus.

To put it another way, there are many many testimonials out there from people who say that they aren't familiar with DnD at all, but that they still find the comic to be great.

There must be a reason for that. :smallwink:

There's not many rule-based jokes anyways, but for the jokes that make fun of the existence of something that not everyone is familiar with in D&D, it'll fall flat.

To save yourself some time, you can quit stating the obvious.

[Porthos]

To save yourself some time, you can quit stating the obvious.

Nah, I like stating the obvious. It's fun. :smalltongue:

Here's another obvious statement: Maybe it won't fall flat for everyone. Humor being subjective and all. Sure it might fall flat for some people. But not everyone.

And here's Yet Another Obvious Statement: So what if some jokes are incomprehensible to some people? I didn't get the Final Fantasy jokes in Comic #388. Yet I still found the strip funny. And there's more than a few Pop Culture references that I have gotten, but it hasn't affected my enjoymeny of the comic any.

The way I figure it, if I really don't get a joke and I want to know more about it, I'll look it up myself. Heck, I might even learn something. :smalltongue:

[spargel]

Nah, I like stating the obvious. It's fun. :smalltongue:

Here's another obvious statement: Maybe it won't fall flat for everyone. Humor being subjective and all. Sure it might fall flat for some people. But not everyone.

And here's Yet Another Obvious Statement: So what if some jokes are incomprehensible to some people? I didn't get the Final Fantasy jokes in Comic #388. Yet I still found the strip funny. And there's more than a few Pop Culture references that I have gotten, but it hasn't affected my enjoymeny of the comic any.

The way I figure it, if I really don't get a joke and I want to know more about it, I'll look it up myself. Heck, I might even learn something. :smalltongue:

This conversation is having less to do with my argument each post.

To be honest, there aren't actually that many jokes that require D&D knowledge to understand anyways.

[Spiky]

Because then the joke becomes really flat.

This response makes no sense. From your commentary, it seems that you have some level of D&D knowledge. Therefore, you are incapable of knowing whether the joke works for someone without such knowledge. Like being a virgin, once it's gone, it's gone.

And, of course, everyone is different, anyway. No doubt Comic #1's jokes could fall flat for individuals with D&D understanding, as they apparently have for you. Comedy is completely subjective, so your opinion really only holds significance to you. I fail to see what the intent of your argument is. If your overall view of OOTS is "meh", fine. It is completely possible that others will still like it.

[spargel]

This response makes no sense. From your commentary, it seems that you have some level of D&D knowledge. Therefore, you are incapable of knowing whether the joke works for someone without such knowledge. Like being a virgin, once it's gone, it's gone.

And, of course, everyone is different, anyway. No doubt Comic #1's jokes could fall flat for individuals with D&D understanding, as they apparently have for you. Comedy is completely subjective, so your opinion really only holds significance to you. I fail to see what the intent of your argument is. If your overall view of OOTS is "meh", fine. It is completely possible that others will still like it.

It's a theory on why some people may not get hooked onto OOTS.

[DBJack]

To save yourself some time, you can quit stating the obvious.

To be fair, Porthos states the obvious pretty well.

Back on topic:

To be honest, with a limited knowledge in D&D the first 5 strips felt weaker. I could figure out what the jokes were about, but it just wasn't hilarious for me. A few strips later I was seriously reading the whole archive. Spargel has a point that the strip starts weakly for people that don't find the spot jokes funny, whether they get them or not, which would make it difficult to pick up readers that try reading webcomics based on how many votes they have. When someone has a website with hundreds of highly rated comics, they'll just read the first few strips, and if the jokes fall flat for them, they'll just move to another comic down the rating system.

But, seeing the accomplishments of the other highly rated strips, I do wonder where OoTS fits in. Surely in the top 10, but this is a strip with hundreds of thousands of readers, not '10 million.' A lot of Goblins fans seem to read OoTS, but Thunt gives incentives to vote often with sneak peeks, so I dunno

[Nimrod's Son]

Strip 1: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 2: Moderately funny.
Strip 3: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 4: Moderately funny.
Strip 5: The spot check joke again.
To take strip #1 as an example: I was already aware that many games undergo rule changes as they go through various editions. I didn't specifically know the reason Belkar's dagger got smaller, but it was obvious that it happened because of the conversion. The fact he expected a bonus and got the opposite was enough for me to get the joke.

As for the spot/listen check jokes, they really are self-explanatory. And the introduction of Blackwing was just as obvious to me: as I read the strip, it occurred to me that someone who is roleplaying a character may easily forget about a familiar if it rarely serves a purpose. I didn't need it explained.


It gets a lot better after that, but it doesn't make that great of a first impression.
Absolutely it gets better from there. But the first impression it did make was enough to keep me reading despite my absolute lack of D&D experience and my general apathy towards most fantasy works in general.

Contrast that with, say, 8-Bit Theatre or Goblins, which I read for a handful of strips before deciding they were lame and leaving them well alone.

[Lvl45DM!]

8 bit theatre is the most consistently hilarious comic ive seen..ive never played any FF but love 8 bit, though i AM easy to please

[Lissou]

Strip 1: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 2: Moderately funny.
Strip 3: Requires D&D knowledge.
Strip 4: Moderately funny.
Strip 5: The spot check joke again.

It gets a lot better after that, but it doesn't make that great of a first impression.

I linked a friend of mine to the strip. She has never played D&D or any other table top RPG (neither had I when I started oots, incidentally).
She found the first strip hillarious because she got the conversion thing. Not from playing tabletop RPGs, but for playing videogames, where the sequels might raise everyone stats but someone gets the short hand of the stick.
I daresay that she got the joke more than many D&D fans did.

Most of D&D terms are so self explanatory that no, it doesn't require D&D knowledge. I requires knowledge of the English language, that's it. My friend didn't even realise it was a D&D comic for a long time, the jokes work for many games. She just assumed it was a game that was invented for the comic to represent all games in general.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

And sometimes you can jump in at the middle, go "Meh..." then come back later and say "This is the Greatest Thing EVAR!"

At least that's what happened with me. I stumbled across the strip while reading something on EN World, a link to this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0338.html)... Now what's odd is I didn't really like the comic, nor that Belkar guy, and I didn't come back for quite some time.

Then I read this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html), and just had to know what had happened to get them into that position! So I clicked on the button that said "First Strip" and started reading from there. By the time I got back to the Belkster and his issues with the fuglies, I was totally hooked, and have been reading and buying the books ever since!

[Jaltum]

Guys, guys, stop arguing. It's obvious that Spargel is right and this comic will never get any crossover appeal outside of its D&D nerd niche. The idea that it could ever be self-supporting for the artist without advertising, just selling books and other merchandise to a horde of fans, is just a crazy pipe dream.

This comic is too specific and nerdy to be successful. Period. It turns off new readers, which is why this forum is a ghost town. Other forums get wave after wave of newbies coming in and asking the exact same questions as the newbies before them--can you imagine if that happened here?

No, no. Spargel has the Giant's number, guys. This comic is just too hard to get into. Pack it in.

[Theodoriph]

Like being a virgin, once it's gone, it's gone.


They have surgeries that will fix that :smalltongue: