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Zovc
2009-10-18, 11:46 PM
Who is Pun-Pun, and what does he do?

I seriously don't know, and am in the mood for some cheese.

Outside of Pun-Pun, how do you make kobolds a decent race?

SurlySeraph
2009-10-18, 11:47 PM
This is Pun-Pun. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character_EVER)

By the most conservative interpretation of the rules he relies on, he can raise his stats arbitrarily high and thus be effectively invincible and capable of defeating anything.

By the most liberal interpretation, he is completely omnipotent.

LordZarth
2009-10-18, 11:48 PM
It's theoretical optimization. You can't play him. At level one, he can do anything. Literally.

Tavar
2009-10-18, 11:51 PM
Who is Pun-Pun, and what does he do?

I seriously don't know, and am in the mood for some cheese.

Outside of Pun-Pun, how do you make kobolds a decent race?

Dragonwrought kobolds are decent, as are sorcerers(using races of the dragon). There's also a web-enhancement on wizards of the coast that boosts them up quite a bit.

Doc Roc
2009-10-18, 11:54 PM
Better questions are...

Does Pun-Pun have the Buddha Nature?
Does Pun-Pun gain the Buddha Nature?

Also, saying that dragonwrought kobolds are decent is like saying that snow is sort of like frozen water. Technically true, but lacking subtleties and information in all directions. :)

chiasaur11
2009-10-18, 11:55 PM
Wait. Never thought of this before, but....

Indestructible.

Immortal.

Reptilian.

Hugely important.

Divine despite a notable lack of active involvement.

Wiser than most guess.

There's a few odd similarity between our Kobold buddy, and a certain someone... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winslow)

Mongoose87
2009-10-19, 12:01 AM
Someone needs to develop a campaign setting were Pun-Pun sits at the top of the pantheon.

Tavar
2009-10-19, 12:06 AM
I think I've seen something like that around before.

Of course, this kinda works with some setting, for instance I don't believe Ao from Forgotten Realms is ever stated up, and he's considered Omnipotents. Therefore, simplest explanation is that he's Pun-Pun.

Zovc
2009-10-19, 12:07 AM
It's theoretical optimization. You can't play him. At level one, he can do anything. Literally.

It looks like things don't get particularly crazy until level 5, or am I looking at it wrong?

Kylarra
2009-10-19, 12:10 AM
There are various RAW-busing methods to make it work earlier.

MCerberus
2009-10-19, 12:11 AM
Someone needs to develop a campaign setting were Pun-Pun sits at the top of the pantheon.

I wonder what Pun-Pun would be up to in the Tippyverse.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-19, 12:12 AM
God, do we have to have a new Pun-Pun thread every two weeks? Seriously, I could set my watch by someone asking "who is he?". :smallsigh:

Keld Denar
2009-10-19, 12:15 AM
Pun-Pun has evolved over time to be achieveable at lower and lower ECLs. The ECL5 one uses Divine Minion. The ECL1 one involves a rather high, but reachable Knowledge: Planes check to recognize Pazuzu, a powerful outsider with a penchance for granting wishes, especially when said wish would cause the fall of a paladin. Pun-Pun then summons Pazuzu by invoking his name 3 times and wishes for a LE Candle of Invocation with which to summon an Efreeti. The efreeti then bestows 3 wishes upon Pun-Pun, one of which is another LE Candle of Invocation, and the other 2 to start the standard Sarruhk assention scheme. Each Candle results in another Candle + 2 wishes, effectively granting Pun-Pun infinite wishes which he then uses to become a Scaled One, summon a Sarruhk, and gain the Manipulate Form ability of the Sarruhk.

HolderofSecrets
2009-10-19, 01:00 AM
God, do we have to have a new Pun-Pun thread every two weeks? Seriously, I could set my watch by someone asking "who is he?". :smallsigh:

Every 2 weeks. That is a long time compared to what it used to be. Heck I remember seeing 3 threads 6 hours apart asking that same question on the WotC Forums. At least it isn't every other day any more. I mean the progress we have made is astounding.

Doc Roc
2009-10-19, 01:48 AM
Every 2 weeks. That is a long time compared to what it used to be. Heck I remember seeing 3 threads 6 hours apart asking that same question on the WotC Forums. At least it isn't every other day any more. I mean the progress we have made is astounding.

Is it progress that fewer new people wonder about the great strangenesses of the system?

Eldariel
2009-10-19, 01:52 AM
God, do we have to have a new Pun-Pun thread every two weeks? Seriously, I could set my watch by someone asking "who is he?". :smallsigh:

Considering the weekly Monk- and 4evs3e-threads, I don't really see it as much of an anomaly. Though it does suggest there'd be call for a Sticky explaining such things and linking relevant threads. *nudge, nudge, hint hint @ mods*

sofawall
2009-10-19, 02:14 AM
Is it progress that fewer new people wonder about the great strangenesses of the system?

No, it's just progress that people can google now.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-19, 05:23 AM
No, it's just progress that people can google now.

They've been able to Google for years. Hopefully more people are realizing that it's easier & more effective to type "Pun-Pun" in Google than to start a new thread on a forum somewhere.

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-19, 06:06 AM
More importantly, why Pun-Pun? Not only Pun-Pun, but why Yik-Yik and Yuk-Yuk? Is there a joke I'm not getting about kobold names?

Yuki Akuma
2009-10-19, 06:22 AM
More importantly, why Pun-Pun? Not only Pun-Pun, but why Yik-Yik and Yuk-Yuk? Is there a joke I'm not getting about kobold names?

Making him a kobold named Pun-Pun was a joke, because it sounds totally pathetic.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-10-19, 06:38 AM
Someone needs to develop a campaign setting were Pun-Pun sits at the top of the pantheon.

Pun-Pun is the god of chaos in my campaign.

Dixieboy
2009-10-19, 06:43 AM
Making him a kobold named Pun-Pun was a joke, because it sounds totally pathetic.

That only answers half of his question though. :smallfrown:

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-19, 09:31 AM
Someone needs to develop a campaign setting were Pun-Pun sits at the top of the pantheon.

It's called Forgotten Realms. You know, the place where Pun-Pun is possible. They just changed his name. It's actually fairly appropriate, considering the number of Mary Sues and Epic level characters running around.

Telonius
2009-10-19, 10:06 AM
Who is Pun-Pun, and what does he do?

I seriously don't know, and am in the mood for some cheese.

Outside of Pun-Pun, how do you make kobolds a decent race?

I am. Or more accurately, I play him in any campaign I run. In all of my games, Pun-Pun has already ascended, and will not allow anyone to do it again.

Kobolds are already a decent race. Just ask Tucker (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/).

Zeta Kai
2009-10-19, 10:13 AM
Kobolds are already a decent race. Just ask Tucker (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/).

More accurately, any race can be a deadly encounter if met in large numbers, on their chosen battleground, & played intelligently.

sofawall
2009-10-19, 01:10 PM
More importantly, why Pun-Pun? Not only Pun-Pun, but why Yik-Yik and Yuk-Yuk? Is there a joke I'm not getting about kobold names?

Yip-Yap is another one.

Not Five
2009-10-19, 03:53 PM
... why Yik-Yik and Yuk-Yuk? Is there a joke I'm not getting about kobold names?

I think it's just because, in English at least, that sort of name tends to just "feel right" for little lizard-people. I played a kobold named Tiktik once.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-19, 06:57 PM
More accurately, any race can be a deadly encounter if met in large numbers, on their chosen battleground, & played intelligently.

Tucker's Kobolds aren't an "encounter". They're an army. They should be dealt with as such. Biological warfare, among other things.

The Rose Dragon
2009-10-19, 07:02 PM
I'm definitely going to name a kobold "Reginald Abraham Washington the Third" to be contrary to all those disyllabic names.

Ravens_cry
2009-10-19, 07:17 PM
Better questions are...

Does Pun-Pun have the Buddha Nature?
Does Pun-Pun gain the Buddha Nature?

Also, saying that dragonwrought kobolds are decent is like saying that a glacier is sort of like frozen water. Technically true, but lacking subtleties and information in all directions. :)
Fixed it for you.
Seriously Zovc, this is beyond mere old cheddar or even Caciocavallo Podolico. This is the kind of cheese that is not meant to be played, ever.
This is the sort of thing that makes munchkins get sticky pyjamas, huddling in dank caves lined with old character sheets. Do you seriously wish to emulate those pitiful creatures?
It was, and still is, a theoretical exercise. An experiment to see how far you could go with 3.5. By no law of man, god, or DM, should it be ever be brought into play. Making it, or even trying, should be grounds for dismissal from even the most power-gaming of groups or PvP arena. Doing it secretly should get your books burned and your writing hand(s) malleted, if the gods are merciful.
Do. Not. Try.
Thank you and enjoy your game.

shadow_archmagi
2009-10-19, 07:31 PM
When I saw the thread title I imagined the commerical

"We all know about that famous omnipotent lizard, but who is pun-pun really? How does he view the world? Tonight, on Ebberron Aberrant, your only source for news, an exclusive interview. "

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-19, 07:35 PM
@Ravens_cry


Also, saying that dragonwrought kobolds are decent is like saying that snow is sort of like frozen water.

Pun-Pun is to decent as glaciers are to snowflakes. True.
Dragonwrought kobolds are to decent as snow is to frozen water. Also true, and what Doc Roc's (I keep thinking of him as Tidesinger. >_<) post directly said.

Defiant
2009-10-19, 07:37 PM
I would actually be curious to see someone who would actually want to play Pun-Pun!

DM: OK, you have infinite abilities and can do anything and everything in the world. Now what?

chiasaur11
2009-10-19, 07:48 PM
I would actually be curious to see someone who would actually want to play Pun-Pun!

DM: OK, you have infinite abilities and can do anything and everything in the world. Now what?

Player: I'm creating Pacific Playland!

Yuki Akuma
2009-10-19, 08:05 PM
I would actually be curious to see someone who would actually want to play Pun-Pun!

DM: OK, you have infinite abilities and can do anything and everything in the world. Now what?

Pun-Pun was never intended to be played. I doubt anyone would do it - it's far too much work.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-19, 08:17 PM
Pun-Pun was never intended to be played. I doubt anyone would do it - it's far too much work.

A number of short-sighted people have already tried. I've read more than one story of players throwing temper tantrums after being told that their Pun-Pun build is being shut down.

DMs should beware of munchkins bearing kobolds (or anything else, really).

Deth Muncher
2009-10-19, 08:23 PM
Player: I'm creating Pacific Playland!

XD Please, help yourself to an Internet.