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npc revolution
2009-10-19, 12:07 PM
I should explain, in a campaign I'm going to run the big bad is a celestial who was born evil for some reason, and he was thrown out of celestia because of it. I'm going to have him insane as well, he never got over his abandonment issues. I'm new to dnd so I don't know which kind of celestial to use
any suggestions?

Kylarra
2009-10-19, 12:10 PM
Fallen solar!

Jade_Tarem
2009-10-19, 12:13 PM
It's 100% dependent on how powerful you want it to be. Kylarra's suggestion of a fallen Solar is good for a very powerful big bad. If you want to tone it down a bit I actually suggest turbocharging an Erinyes (actually a devil, but the flavor works out) - or working with Burlew's Fenixborn celestial over in the Gaming articles section.

JeenLeen
2009-10-19, 12:14 PM
If you're using normal D&D cosmology, it would make more sense for the celestial to have become evil or to have had something happen to make it go insane or have a revision of its ethics. I don't think a Celestial can be born (or spawn, or however they appear) evil, but they can become evil.

But with your question: what character level do you expect your players to be when they face it? That will give a base, although you can add character levels and templates to the celestial.

The basic three types of Celestial are:
CG Eladrins - fey-like. They can age and die.
NG Guardinals (sp?) - 'half-animal' appearance
LG Archons - the more traditional 'angel'-type celestial.

You could use any type, depending on what personality you want it to have. They have slightly different powers/resistances. Book of Exalted Deeds outlines how they govern and operate fairly well, in my opinion.

Random832
2009-10-19, 12:35 PM
Aren't devils basically defined as former celestials who went too far and were corrupted? (I know there's some extra stuff in there too about Asmodeus and some sort of pact, see Fiendish Codex II, but do I basically have it right?)

hamishspence
2009-10-19, 12:55 PM
yes.

But partially corrupted celestials exist as well- for example, the corrupted Planetar in Elder Evils, which retains Good Subtype and most of its normal abilities, but has different domains from a standard planetar.

Or the "radiant idols" in Sharn: City of Towers- fallen celestials who want to be worshipped as gods, distinctive for their severed wings, and their inability to fly in any shape of form (fly, levitate, etc spells cast on them always fail).

charl
2009-10-19, 01:04 PM
Look to the comic! Miko's plotline and character development could easily be applied to a Celestial as well. The outsider goes too far in its zealous fight on evil, its higher-ups don't approve and it gets banished.

As for what kind of Celestial, I would personally go with an Archon. There's just something about the image of fighting a fallen angel that has a certain classic style about it.

hamishspence
2009-10-19, 01:06 PM
Technically, archons aren't angels- but their Lawfulness certainly helps the "Fall through overzealousness" plot

charl
2009-10-19, 01:10 PM
Technically, archons aren't angels- but their Lawfulness certainly helps the "Fall through overzealousness" plot

Well, no, but they sure look like angels (at least the more powerful ones). Hell, the only reason they aren't called such is because DnD still needs to be careful not to step on too many religious peoples' toes to avoid a repeat of the Devil/Demon debacles.

Samb
2009-10-19, 01:38 PM
Only the more powerful archons look like angels: sword, trumpet, thorne and tome(?). Hound and lanterns look..... Like hounds and floating lights.

Devas all resemble the typical angel, from the lowly modanic to the awesome solor.

A fallen celestial is just trite and boring. Every DM uses this to allow for their PCs to fight one and it was an old hat in AD&D. A better way to do this plot wise is to have whoever hired the PCs to be an evil mastermind who told the PCs the angel was evil when in fact he is not. It will be a more involving plot and much more work than "evil/fallen angel" but will raise interesting questions about whose side the PCs are really and much easier to segway into another deeper plot later on.

charl
2009-10-19, 01:52 PM
Only the more powerful archons look like angels: sword, trumpet, thorne and tome(?). Hound and lanterns look..... Like hounds and floating lights.

Devas all resemble the typical angel, from the lowly modanic to the awesome solor.

Interestingly, according to Abrahamitic mythology most angels don't actually look anything like winged humanoids. They tend to be things like seven heads (of only one is human) floating around in pure light, or wheels with thousands of eyes along the rims, and other equally impossible and alien forms. Only the Dominion look human.

Random832
2009-10-19, 01:56 PM
Technically, archons aren't angels- but their Lawfulness certainly helps the "Fall through overzealousness" plot

I thought that in D&D terms "angel" meant any (Good) outsider.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-10-19, 02:19 PM
You could always just do a ripoff of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_lost).

Kylarra
2009-10-19, 02:24 PM
I thought that in D&D terms "angel" meant any (Good) outsider.
Nope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm), angels are a rather specific group of [good] outsiders.

ex cathedra
2009-10-19, 02:26 PM
You could always just do a ripoff of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_lost).

Or perhaps even a ripoff of this fellow. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nameless_One#Trias_the_Betrayer)

He's a fairly good representation of something of a fallen celestial, I think.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/569/180085-trias_large.jpg

Superglucose
2009-10-19, 02:26 PM
Why does the Solar have to be evil? Why can't the Solar simply assume that the players are evil, and thus seek to thwart them/destroy them?

Good on good fighting happens, yo.

Samb
2009-10-19, 02:39 PM
Why does the Solar have to be evil? Why can't the Solar simply assume that the players are evil, and thus seek to thwart them/destroy them?

Good on good fighting happens, yo.

Holy war for the win. I can't come up with a reason two factions of good would come to blows, but it does happen in real life.

Iamyourking
2009-10-19, 07:02 PM
Just use the Fallen Angel template. It makes them weaker because they lose their Cleric casting, but it's a good way to have a Solar for a pre-epic boss fight.

deuxhero
2009-10-19, 07:06 PM
Make the Solar still look nice and good, while the various still good celestials that the players get help/advice from into the eye covered abomination type of angels.

good_lookin_gus
2009-10-19, 08:37 PM
Couldn't Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) force a Celestial to directly oppose good PCs? With the right conditions, Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) could work too. Also, a Half-Celestial would have worldly ties, meaning it could be blackmailed.

Teron
2009-10-19, 09:16 PM
Nope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm), angels are a rather specific group of [good] outsiders.
Specifically, they're servants of the good gods, and share their master's alignment on the Law/Chaos axis. At least, that's the default; they're somewhat different in Eberron.

Good outsiders in general are called celestials.