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Delandel
2009-10-19, 05:52 PM
Fist of the Forest's Unarmed Damage says this:
"Your unarmed attacks deal more damage than usual. At 1st level, you deal ld8 points of damage with each unarmed strike. When you attain 3rd level, this damage increases to 1d10 points. See the monk class feature (PH 41). If your unarmed attack already deals this amount of damage, increase the base damage to the next step indicated on the monk class table."

Monk's Belt says this:
"If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus."

A 5th level monk (medium) deals 1d8 damage with unarmed strikes. If a fist of the forest3 is dealing 1d10 damage with unarmed strikes and then dons a monk's belt, does the damage go up one category?

Wondering if monk's belt is a worthwhile purchase for a lvl 8 barbarian / fist of the forest / bear warrior.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-19, 06:20 PM
No; it doesn't increase unarmed damage at that level. A 5th level Monk gets 1d8 damage. The 3rd level of FotF gets 1d10, which is more. The unarmed damage only goes up one step if it already deals the FotF table amount, which Monk 5 does not. You would need Monk 8 through Monk 11 to get a one step unarmed damage boost.

Delandel
2009-10-20, 08:39 PM
Yes, but if I'm wearing a monk's belt it gives me 1d8. The unarmed damage ability states "If your unarmed attack already deals this amount of damage, increase the base damage to the next step indicated on the monk class table." So at first level if I have a monk's belt, shouldn't that bump my damage to 1d10? And when I get to the third level of the PrC I already have 1d10 fists, so shouldn't my damage again be bumped to 2d6?

Also, another kinda off-topic question: can you use whirling frenzy rage variant with a bear warrior's bear form? I'm not sure, leaning to no, but just checking.

Nate the Snake
2009-10-20, 09:18 PM
Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways.
...
A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).

Since it's still effectively rage (and a "frenzy" ability :smallbiggrin:), whirling frenzy would let you qualify for bear warrior, but since it doesn't stack with other rage abilities (like bear form), you wouldn't get the bonuses of both at the same time, just one or the other.

One could also make the argument that bear form modifies the normal rage ability, since the bear warrior "retains" the +2 to Will and -2 to AC, so you couldn't use bear form at all while in a whirling frenzy.

So I guess it's no either way.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-20, 09:26 PM
Yes, but if I'm wearing a monk's belt it gives me 1d8. The unarmed damage ability states "If your unarmed attack already deals this amount of damage, increase the base damage to the next step indicated on the monk class table." So at first level if I have a monk's belt, shouldn't that bump my damage to 1d10?Yes, it would.
And when I get to the third level of the PrC I already have 1d10 fists, so shouldn't my damage again be bumped to 2d6? No. The Fist of the Forest class ability will increase your unarmed damage if it matches what you already have from other sources. There's no boost if Fist of the Forest already provides more unarmed damage. The improvement only works in one direction, and the order in which you acquire things does not matter.

Delandel
2009-10-20, 09:30 PM
Bear Warrior:
"Bear Form (Su): A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to the polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy. His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or frenzy, and the bear warrior returns to his own form once the rage or frenzy ends. The bear warrior retains the normal +2 bonus on Will saves and –2 penalty to Armor Class while raging, but the ability score bonuses granted by rage or frenzy are replaced by Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution bonuses appropriate to the bear form taken (see below)."

Emphasis mine. It sounds like the bear form ability is not a rage itself, but rather an ability that can only be activated when you are already raging. For example, a bear warrior could be raging, and then a round or two into his rage he decides to turn into a bear right?

I agree with you though, Nate. Why does it say "retains the normal +2 bonus..."? The ability even states that you can go into it from a rage OR frenzy, yet the wording is assuming you're using the standard rage ability and nothing else?

Very confusing stuff. Was the "or frenzy" part a mistake, or was the "retains the normal..." part a mistake? They seem conflicting.

Nate the Snake
2009-10-20, 11:09 PM
It sounds like the bear form ability is not a rage itself, but rather an ability that can only be activated when you are already raging. For example, a bear warrior could be raging, and then a round or two into his rage he decides to turn into a bear right?

I interpreted the ability as letting you replace your entire rage with the bear form version, rather than letting you switch back and forth.


I agree with you though, Nate. Why does it say "retains the normal +2 bonus..."? The ability even states that you can go into it from a rage OR frenzy, yet the wording is assuming you're using the standard rage ability and nothing else?

Very confusing stuff. Was the "or frenzy" part a mistake, or was the "retains the normal..." part a mistake? They seem conflicting.

The "or frenzy" part doesn't refer to the whirling frenzy variant, it refers to the frenzy ability of the frenzied berserker PrC from the same book. The "retains the normal..." part is written that way because yes, it does assume that you're using the standard rage and not a variant.

deuxhero
2009-10-20, 11:14 PM
I have a pretty good feeling that whirling frenzys inability to be used with other rage varrients was due avoid rage/whirling frenzy stacking, not disqualify rage enchancing prcs.