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Myrmex
2009-10-20, 02:14 AM
If a level 20 psion and his cohort both take leadership, and both cohorts are psions with leadership and psicrystals, how many characters do you get control over?

What if every eligible psion also has 10 levels in Thrallherd?

Superglucose
2009-10-20, 02:32 AM
You get control over exactly 1 character.

Kylarra
2009-10-20, 02:33 AM
You have direct control over one, and chain of command established over a fair amount.

Zaq
2009-10-20, 02:36 AM
When I was going to St. Ives,
I met a man with seven wives.
Each wife he had had seven sacks.
Each sack they had had seven cats.
Each cat they had had seven kits.
Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?

Thajocoth
2009-10-20, 02:36 AM
If a level 20 psion and his cohort both take leadership, and both cohorts are psions with leadership and psicrystals, how many characters do you get control over?

What if every eligible psion also has 10 levels in Thrallherd?

None. Changing lightbulbs is a Rogue's job.

As mildly a closer answer to your question:

None. The DM can't read the rulebooks to make a call on this while raging.

I don't actually know anything on this topic... But I thought my lines were funny enough to post.

EDIT:

When I was going to St. Ives,
I met a man with seven wives.
Each wife he had had seven sacks.
Each sack they had had seven cats.
Each cat they had had seven kits.
Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?

Unknown, as the destination of these people/items/animals, and even if they were traveling or not, was not included in the riddle. Though, the "official answer" is probably 1. You.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 03:40 AM
@Thaj:Wrong. 0.

Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?

"You" are not listed in the choices. Provided all involved items are travelling, there would be 2401 total kits, 343 cats, 49 sacks, and 7 wives, for a total of 2800 items. If you include the man (with 7 wives), that's 2801, and yourself would make it 2802.

However, of kits, cats, sacks, and wives, none are established travellers to St. Ives.

Trouvere
2009-10-20, 03:46 AM
It starts off as the Fibonacci sequence (one 20th, one 19th, two 18th, three 17th, five 16th, eight 15th, thirteen 14th, twenty-one 13th), then caps when the thralls are too low level to have reached Thrallherd 10, so each gains only one new thrall each. The 6th level thralls each gain a 5th level thrall, and the chain then stops. Between them, they have 222 psicrystals. I'm of course neglecting followers by assuming they have NPC classes only, since it's tricky to know what Leadership score each thrall has.

Someone can now tell me why I'm wrong.

Thajocoth
2009-10-20, 03:47 AM
@Thaj:Wrong. 0.

Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?

"You" are not listed in the choices. Provided all involved items are travelling, there would be 2401 total kits, 343 cats, 49 sacks, and 7 wives, for a total of 2800 items. If you include the man (with 7 wives), that's 2801, and yourself would make it 2802.

However, of kits, cats, sacks, and wives, none are established travellers to St. Ives.

"Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?" does not look to me like "How many Kits, cats, sacks, and wives were going to St. Ives?" It instead looks to me like, in poetic form, it's re-listing the nouns in the description, then asking the question "How many <people> were going to St. Ives <when I was on my way there that one time I mentioned>?"

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 03:52 AM
"Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?" does not look to me like "How many Kits, cats, sacks, and wives were going to St. Ives?" It instead looks to me like, in poetic form, it's re-listing the nouns in the description, then asking the question "How many <people> were going to St. Ives <when I was on my way there that one time I mentioned>?"

How many were going to St. Ives?

How many what?

You can assume it means "anything listed in the poem", in which case, the answer is 1.
You can assume it means "any people", which would mean "indeterminate, as we don't know the status of all travellers headed to St. Ives."
Or you can assume, in riddle fashion, it's trying to trip you up (it's a riddle first, and a poem second) and that the subjects listed in the line are the "what"... In which case, the answer is 0.

Most riddles use the last. They tell you exactly what you need to answer the question, drown you in excess information, and giggle as you overthink the problem.

In other words, it's a riddle in poem form. Not a poem in riddle form. As such, any word usage will serve the riddle first, and the poem second.

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 05:01 AM
You have direct control over one, and chain of command established over a fair amount.

Dominate, Dominate, I like to Dominate.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 05:05 AM
There once was a man from Nantucket,
Who charmed a young lass with a bucket.
The keep's walls were quite high,
With a glint in his eye,
He told her to get in the trebuchet!

(yes, I know it's not pronounced this way, but there's only so many ways to make a clean nantucket limerick.)

Sophismata
2009-10-20, 05:17 AM
How many were going to St. Ives?

How many what?

You can assume it means "anything listed in the poem", in which case, the answer is 1.
You can assume it means "any people", which would mean "indeterminate, as we don't know the status of all travellers headed to St. Ives."
Or you can assume, in riddle fashion, it's trying to trip you up (it's a riddle first, and a poem second) and that the subjects listed in the line are the "what"... In which case, the answer is 0.

Most riddles use the last. They tell you exactly what you need to answer the question, drown you in excess information, and giggle as you overthink the problem.

In other words, it's a riddle in poem form. Not a poem in riddle form. As such, any word usage will serve the riddle first, and the poem second.

Strictly speaking, it's how many [things] were going to St. Ives. In this case, the embellishment is to maintain poetic tempo and remind the listener of the objects involved in the puzzle.

This particular (well-known) riddle is less of a word game and more of a logic game - the trick lies in the fact that only one person is established as going to St. Ives. There is no point in tricking the person a second time over a small (and arguable) language semantic, especially since that semantic is not present in all variants of the riddle.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-20, 05:26 AM
Strictly speaking, it's how many [things] were going to St. Ives. In this case, the embellishment is to maintain poetic tempo and remind the listener of the objects involved in the puzzle.

This particular (well-known) riddle is less of a word game and more of a logic game - the trick lies in the fact that only one person is established as going to St. Ives. There is no point in tricking the person a second time over a small (and arguable) language semantic, especially since that semantic is not present in all variants of the riddle.

That's why I think that the best riddles have no such arguables over meaning...

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-20, 08:30 AM
@Thaj:Wrong. 0.

Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ives?

"You" are not listed in the choices. Provided all involved items are travelling, there would be 2401 total kits, 343 cats, 49 sacks, and 7 wives, for a total of 2800 items. If you include the man (with 7 wives), that's 2801, and yourself would make it 2802.

However, of kits, cats, sacks, and wives, none are established travellers to St. Ives.


Well, you don't know how many kits/cats/sacks/wives are going to St. Ives besides the ones mentioned in the word game...

On the original topic, you control one character directly. Possibly the psicrystal too, meaning two characters. DM may allow for more, but that's unlikely with leadership chaining.

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 08:44 AM
Well, you don't know how many kits/cats/sacks/wives are going to St. Ives besides the ones mentioned in the word game...

On the original topic, you control one character directly. Possibly the psicrystal too, meaning two characters. DM may allow for more, but that's unlikely with leadership chaining.

Psionic Dominate.
You now have all the psions.