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Otodetu
2009-10-20, 11:03 AM
Catching On Fire

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.



So, when you catch fire, do your items catch fire too, or is it just your character, or does it depend on the situation and source of the fire?

I have notices that many players completely ignore this, many times characters wearing non-magical flammable clothing gets explicitly splashed with lamp oil, alchemist fire, or exposed to heat so the garments catch fire, but the consequences of having your clothes most likely burned away is ignored completely...

Is this environmental hazard simply ignored for simplicity?


And finally, would it then be mean to inform the players after an encounter with a fire elemental about how most of their clothing have been burned away? (hilarity might ensure)

toddex
2009-10-20, 11:27 AM
Catching On Fire

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.



So, when you catch fire, do your items catch fire too, or is it just your character, or does it depend on the situation and source of the fire?

I have notices that many players completely ignore this, many times characters wearing non-magical flammable clothing gets explicitly splashed with lamp oil, alchemist fire, or exposed to heat so the garments catch fire, but the consequences of having your clothes most likely burned away is ignored completely...

Is this environmental hazard simply ignored for simplicity?


And finally, would it then be mean to inform the players after an encounter with a fire elemental about how most of their clothing have been burned away? (hilarity might ensure)


Well im pretty sure by the rulings if theyre on your person theyre attended, so they wouldnt.

Another_Poet
2009-10-20, 11:29 AM
In all games I have played in, both GM and players have ignored this rule except for the following circumstances:

-character is carrying something highly flammable or explosive (necklace of fireballs, etc.)
-GM uses a trap specifically meant to try to reduce characters' equipment to cinders

In general, if both the GM and the players ignore the rule, it works out to being fair while also being a lot less bookkeeping.

Melamoto
2009-10-20, 11:29 AM
Well im pretty sure by the rulings if theyre on your person theyre attended, so they wouldnt.

Although it does raise the issue that a guy can be set on fire for a minute wearing cloth clothes, and they will be absolutely fine afterwards.

deuxhero
2009-10-20, 11:44 AM
I'd rule that mundane (non magic non-psionic) items can be harmed by catching on fire, as well as any magic/psionic items that would be extra vulnerable to fire (like the above mentioned necklace of fireballs) .

jmbrown
2009-10-20, 11:55 AM
Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

If it's on your person and it's flammable then you have to roll to save against it combusting. If it combusts completely based on Table: substance hardness and hit points, then it's gone. 6 seconds is enough time for something like simple paper and cloth to become ash under direct flame.

As far as clothing goes I'd say that armor protects clothing. A person with simple leather armor would probably have their arms and leggings burned off while a person in full plate would have their clothing protected.

ericgrau
2009-10-20, 12:16 PM
For spells at least if you roll a 1 on your reflex save then one of your items is affected to. If it's a magic item then it gets its own save.

For mundane fires it seems like, yes, all your items roll too. But bear in mind that mundane fire doesn't do much damage, and magic items can use their own saving throw modifier (2 + 1/2 CL) if higher. Fire does half damage to objects before hardness. So most objects would be unaffected by your standard 1d6 fire whereas, ya, loose paper is toast.

Clementx
2009-10-20, 12:32 PM
When you are exposed to an effect that causes you to specifically catch on fire, such as just after being doused with alchemist's fire or running into a fire (DM's discretion on environmental cases, like always), you make your DC15 Reflex save. If you fail, you take damage, and you must make the same save over again for all your flammable items. That is the catching fire rule.

This is separate from the general case of damaging objects on a failed save. If you roll a 1 against any effect that can harm your possessions, you have to attempt the same save again for the object. This means 5% of the time, a fireball will damage (but not light on fire, which is independent and not applicable in this case) your gear. Cone of cold has the same chance.

Then you have energy damage vs object reduction, then hardness. That means unless you stay on fire for a long time after encountering one of the few igniting effects, carry items specifically harmed by fire, or really suck at Reflex saves against powerful fire magic, your stuff with only get covered in soot.

Fiendish_Dire_Moose
2009-10-20, 12:37 PM
If you're a barbarian, your best weapon when being on fire is grappling rules.
Who cares that you're on fire, you're a barbarian! Give them a hug and make them on fire too!

Lysander
2009-10-20, 01:11 PM
It's also possible to assume that patches of their clothes are burned, but not the entire outfit. The same way you can assume that after traveling a long time a person's clothes and dirty and torn but still functioning.

Solaris
2009-10-20, 01:39 PM
I always figured it was the clothes themselves that caught fire.
... Anybody happen to know the hardness/hit points of a dwarf's beard?

Zeta Kai
2009-10-20, 01:47 PM
If you're a barbarian, your best weapon when being on fire is grappling rules.
Who cares that you're on fire, you're a barbarian! Give them a hug and make them on fire too!

LOL, I've done that more than once. It's so worth it! :smallbiggrin:

Otodetu
2009-10-20, 02:24 PM
When you are exposed to an effect that causes you to specifically catch on fire, such as just after being doused with alchemist's fire or running into a fire (DM's discretion on environmental cases, like always), you make your DC15 Reflex save. If you fail, you take damage, and you must make the same save over again for all your flammable items. That is the catching fire rule.

This. Is it mean to enforce these rules when applicable?


Another thing I was wondering about is magma

Lava Effects
Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.

Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round).

An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. However, a creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava.



You can with sufficient hp, survive plunging into magma and climb out of the hot liquid stone, the question is how your items will fare, if they take no-save 20d6 fire damage (half to objects, I know.) anything but weapons and armour will melt away to slag, right?

Another_Poet
2009-10-20, 02:54 PM
This. Is it mean to enforce these rules when applicable?

It's not mean as long as you also make your NPCs and monsters follow the same rules when the PC's use fire. It is a pain in the behind to keep track of it all however, which is the main reason most people forget/ignore it.


Another thing I was wondering about is magma
...
You can with sufficient hp, survive plunging into magma and climb out of the hot liquid stone, the question is how your items will fare, if they take no-save 20d6 fire damage (half to objects, I know.) anything but weapons and armour will melt away to slag, right?

I think this about covers it (http://www.lavarules.com/). I would extend the rule to objects as well as creatures, unless the objects are immune to fire damage.

Otodetu
2009-10-20, 03:07 PM
I am really a fan of d20 because everything has detailed rules, I also like the capped 20d6 max falling damage, I also like the damage cap on being submerged by acid\holy water.

Not that I did not find your link exceedingly funny :smallbiggrin: