So, what's the judgement on anti-magic fields (3.5) anyway?

[Coidzor]

I remember them being proposed as a foil to the power of magic once upper tiers are reached but then being dismissed fairly quickly but couldn't remember what sort of arguments against their potency were used.

[The Glyphstone]

1. It's too hard to get close enough to a wizard to cover him in one (they can fly, teleport, etc., while a fighter with an AMF is either groundbound or a race with (Ex) flight, of which there are few.
2. It's too easy to get out of one (5ft. steps, Contingencies, Invoke Magiced Dimension Doors).
3. A lot of magic, stupidly enough, isn't terribly bothered by an AMF anyways (Instantaneous Conjurations....:/).

[Paulus]

Basically it only works if you are bigger, stronger, and more mobile than the wizard. That is, it only works if you are a dragon.

[good_lookin_gus]

Basically it only works if you are bigger, stronger, and more mobile than the wizard. That is, it only works if you are a dragon.

Size and strength are not essential. A small Air Elemental has a movement speed of 100ft. (perfect) and is on the Improved Familiar list. Cast AMF, have it target your familiar, it readies an action to move into the enemy Wizard's square.

[Sinfire Titan]

To put it simply, any full caster worth his salt isn't going to get within 400ft of an Anti Magic Zone. Only the ones prepared to deal with the risk of temporary shut down and the absolutely unprepared idiots will be getting within that distance.

The smart casters are able to deal with it, as Conjuration: Creation spells with an Instantaneous duration can still affect creatures within the radius of an AMF. Also, because AMFs no long block LoE, having one between you and the mage does nothing to protect you from the mage.

A smart full caster will have dozens of contingent plans for escaping the radius, or ensuring that you can't get the AMF within a certain distance (from which the caster can rape reality with impunity).

The dumb ones? Well, if they walk into it, they really deserved it.

The ones who say just throw it at the caster?


10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

I know Aelryinth back at Gleemax loved advocating that strategy. It doesn't work unless you can convince another full caster to cast the spell and then let you chuck them at an enemy.


Cast AMF, have it target your familiar, it readies an action to move into the enemy Wizard's square.

Can't. You could use Share Spell to do it, but the effect of the Share Spell ability only works if it is within 5ft. Thus, useless.

[jseah]

You can combo it with Arcane Archer.

Or Ocular Spell / Chain Spell / Persistent Spell.

Of course, they're cheesy tricks, but they do make AMF useful.

[Sinfire Titan]

You can combo it with Arcane Archer.

Or Ocular Spell / Chain Spell / Persistent Spell.

Of course, they're cheesy tricks, but they do make AMF useful.

Or you cold just use Antimagic Ray in the Spell Compendium...

[Ostien]

It really is all about who gets the jump on who. The range on AMF is pretty flexible because you can cast it on, say an arrow. Cast it and then hit a flat footed wizard. Don't let them simply remove an arrow with no penalty, make it take a full round (at least, remember a round is only 6 seconds) and do additional damage when they rip it out, as arrows are meant to go in only one way and take chunks of flesh when removed by someone with no heal skill. Usually removing an arrow is no big deal but normally it is post-battle, not in the middle of combat.

Also in a game I'm designing I have guns. Cast it on the lead ball... that is not so easy to remove..

You can get pretty creative when dealing with pesky casters.

EDIT: RAW does not allow you to cast it on an object, that is something my group has ignored.

[Eldariel]

AMF is a great way for casters to become immune to non-casters, but you have to be a caster to truly make good use of them yourself, or at least have natural fly-speed and the ability to pierce Force-barriers. The best characters to AMF with obviously ignore the entire AMF while using its superb protective qualities (this goes for Initiate of Mystra in particular, but e.g. simple Swiftblade can use this to great effect since his most important buff, Haste, is Ex.) and the notably worse option is limiting the AMF to only squares around you; it doesn't protect you from e.g. spells, but it does still mean melee types cannot fly near you nor use magic weapons or such, and it does enable some nice entrapments by moving near a caster opponent and thus exposing them to AMF, then locking up their ability to move removing them of practically all their potency. But yeah, it's a great tool for casters. Less so for melee.


Or you cold just use Antimagic Ray in the Spell Compendium...

It has a Will-save, making it quite ****ty; even if you can use it, it doesn't stop spell completion items, for example, and if you can make the opponent fail a Will-save, there are much better things to hit them with (Feeblemind much?). Meh. AMF is good specifically 'cause it disables items and spells, no question.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Also in a game I'm designing I have guns. Cast it on the lead ball... that is not so easy to remove..


Destroy the arrow by slicing it in half with a dagger.

No object, no AMF.



Also in a game I'm designing I have guns. Cast it on the lead ball... that is not so easy to remove..

Bullets are commonly destroyed when they enter the body and start bouncing off of bones.

[Sinfire Titan]

You can get pretty creative when dealing with pesky casters.

EDIT: RAW does not allow you to cast it on an object, that is something my group has ignored.

Yes, it's a wonderful spell. When you ignore the effing rules!

[AstralFire]

Most simply put, anti-magic fields only significantly disrupt the (more common in play) type of caster that is playing to her archetype rather than her potential, and such casters are already in a viable state of balance with melee anyway. (Viable is not the same as perfect, or near perfect.)

[Ostien]

Destroy the arrow by slicing it in half with a dagger.

No object, no AMF.

The arrow head counts imo.



Bullets are commonly destroyed when they enter the body and start bouncing off of bones.
modern bullets are designed to fragment yest, but lead balls would often stay fully in tact.

These are house rules to make AMF actually useful and make casters scared so they don't walk around like they are invulnerable. Also a player in my group killed a caster outright with a longbow critical once. Casters are not gods, the still have 1d4 HD. DMs should cut casters no slack whatsoever.

[Nero24200]

Hate anti-magic feilds. The classes they're supposed to shaft most (full casters) have ways to circumvent them easily. For instance, a wizard could stick outwith the feild and still throw spells or, if the foe is in the field, just use stoneshape and slowly enclose them in it.

Marital classes, incidently, get screwed, since at the level you normally see them they're heavily reliant on magic items.

I've only seen two AMF's IG, one from a beholder, another from a creature using the effect on himself. The beholder fight didn't work, since the party only needed to surround him to negate the effect. The second fight was a nightmare, the party had a shifter ranger/scout (using alot of shifting feats), a melee cleric, a melee druid and a warmage. Coincidently, the primary spell-caster was the only one able to do anything to the foe due to SR igoring spells.

[Sinfire Titan]

These are house rules to make AMF actually useful and make casters scared so they don't walk around like they are invulnerable. Also a player in my group killed a caster outright with a longbow critical once. Casters are not gods, the still have 1d4 HD. DMs should cut casters no slack whatsoever.

Luck. I can think of so many foils for a longbow that it makes my head spin. Remember, the die size doesn't matter, it's the Con score that matters.


And you have it wrong. The casters should cut the DM some slack.

[The Glyphstone]

It is a start, but then you have to implement multiple other houserules to cement it, at which point there are easier and more effective ways of hitting casters with the nerfbat. For starters, a simple Wind Wall would have prevented 100% of the longbow damage to that wizard, or Greater Invisibility, or another defense. A crit from a longbow would do at maximum 24 damage plus 3x the enhancement bonus/Strength bonus if Composite, which is the max HP of a level 6 wizard with Con 12. So if this crit-kill took place before level 7 or 8, it's lucky but definitely within possibility...if it happened at levels 11-12+ when Antimagic Field is available, the wizard was using extremely poor tactics.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The arrow head counts imo.

How do you rule on potential Line of Effect issues?



modern bullets are designed to fragment yest, but lead balls would often stay fully in tact.

Isn't lead one of the softer metals?

[Oslecamo]

I know Aelryinth back at Gleemax loved advocating that strategy. It doesn't work unless you can convince another full caster to cast the spell and then let you chuck them at an enemy.


It's easier than it looks.
1-You're a medium level wizard, strong enough to cast AMF.
2-Your enemy is a higher level wizard, wich you have no hopes of defeating into a straight spell contest.
3-Find yourself an ally who can fly whitout magic, offer to be carried by him while you cast AMF. Also provide the scrying, diversions and teleporting as needed so your ally will be able to move close enough.
4-Catch the higher level wizard completely by suprise as he never expected anyone would (HEARESY!) use teamwork in D&D! The cheese!
5-?
6-Profit!

Pharaoh's Fist:It's precisely because it's soft that it doesn't breack. Soft things bend when pressed, hard things breack. Part of the reason bullets were made of lead was that they would deform when shooted instead of shattering inside the gun, untill more sophisticated metal alloys were developed.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Pharaoh's Fist:It's precisely because it's soft that it doesn't breack. Soft things bend when pressed, hard things breack. Part of the reason bullets were made of lead was that they would deform when shooted instead of shattering inside the gun, untill more sophisticated metal alloys were developed.

Deforming does not count as destroying?

[Ostien]

How do you rule on potential Line of Effect issues?

I don't see that would come up as I would rule once it is cast on the object that object can go anywhere and last the full duration



Isn't lead one of the softer metals?
Right, soft is what you want. It will deform but not shatter.

EDIT:
Deforming does not count as destroying?
I wouldn't rule so.



Luck. I can think of so many foils for a longbow that it makes my head spin. Remember, the die size doesn't matter, it's the Con score that matters.


And you have it wrong. The casters should cut the DM some slack.

Eh the CON can only make that much of a difference. {Scrubbed}

But, the DM has the final say on anything, even if it is allowed by RAW.

[Eldariel]

It's easier than it looks.
1-You're a medium level wizard, strong enough to cast AMF.
2-Your enemy is a higher level wizard, wich you have no hopes of defeating into a straight spell contest.
3-Find yourself an ally who can fly whitout magic, offer to be carried by him while you cast AMF. Also provide the scrying, diversions and teleporting as needed so your ally will be able to move close enough.
4-Catch the higher level wizard completely by suprise as he never expected anyone would (HEARESY!) use teamwork in D&D! The cheese!

Games where no teamwork is used? 'cause that doesn't sound like D&D at all. The problem with that plan is having the ally capable of flying without magic (no, those aren't everywhere), getting to the Wizard with AMF around you and making the Wizard stay in said AMF. Of course a Wizard is relatively screwed in an AMF next to a lockdown character. The problem is getting said lockdown character there.

But honestly, instead of getting an ally and wasting a bunch of actions, just get a shaped AMF around you; that's much easier to get next to the caster than a full-on AMF (and much harder for them to stop you). With a shaped AMF, you can threaten an opposing caster, provided you're close enough, with your move action, with your standard action and with a swift action.


This can break against a good number of defenses, but relies on opponent being close enough to move to, which while not impossible isn't automatically true either (Teleportation is a risky proposition before Dispel due to Anticipate Teleportation).

Generally opponents have an immediate action and a contingency for defenses, meaning if you can threaten them with all 3 actions, you can often get through with one (better not waste that on a passive defense though). Teamwork doesn't really come into this. But of course teamwork helps against a high-level caster; the first guy aims a couple of chained Dispels at his various magic items and him, another uses Dimensional Lock/similar with some more Dispelling, next blocks his mobility with Walls/whatever and tries to ultimately get him into an AMF and the last one delivers the death blow or tries to lock him inside said AMF. This would be a pretty solid attack sequence for a 4v1 vs. a higher-level caster with a mid-level team; not guaranteed to succeed, obviously, but there are decent chances that you get through most of their defenses.


But yeah, saying "teamwork isn't used" is pretty weird considering the #1 concern people bring up in all boss fights is action advantage; isn't that specifically teamwork, having a bunch of characters work together complementing each others' attack patterns and defenses to take down one opponent stronger than anyone of them individually?

Doesn't it speak volumes of how much said teamwork is respected and understood when people basically always suggest "give the boss allies/extra actions" when asked how to make it more of a fight? Really, D&D 3.5, at least in a group with a solid grasp of game mechanics, is going to be incredibly reliant on good teamwork.

Failing to use efficient teamwork is at best going to cost you much more resources than fighting the fight smart would have, and at worst is going to straight lead to a TPK.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Right, soft is what you want. It will deform but not shatter.

Very well.

How do you determine if the bullet goes through the body or not?

[Ostien]

Very well.

How do you determine if the bullet goes through the body or not?

Never has come up, but if I was using AMF in this way withplayers, I'd roll a percentile. Donno what would be what though, perhaps just 50/50.

[Doug Lampert]

Isn't lead one of the softer metals?

Others have pointed out that soft is actually GOOD in this case.

But the musket ball has other HUGE advantages in staying in one peice.

The musket bullet is typically subsonic within 20' of leaving the gun even for the most powerful black powder guns. Modern rifles are typically supersonic throughout their effective range.

The modern rifle amunition is traveling many times as fast as the musket ball, and energy is as the square of velocity.

Momentum matters as much as energy, but momentum is limited by recoil. And a modern rifle is actually better at delivering that limited momentum to the target. So the modern bullet ALSO delivers more momentum even with a much lighter bullet.

Musket balls were typically about 0.75-0.80 caliber (i.e over double the cross-section of a heavy machine gun bullet, more like 6-8 times the cross-section of a 30.06). Thus musket spreads the stress of impact over a much larger area.

So the modern bullet is hitting with a more brittle material, with substantially MORE total energy and often with more total momentum as well and with a MUCH smaller cross-section absorbing this impact.

The modern bullet is under orders of magnitude more stress. And they STILL often stay in more or less one piece (ballistics testing so beloved of CSI type shows depends on finding a more or less intact bullet, it doesn't always work because you don't always get a bullet in good enough condition, but it often does).

[Oslecamo]

Games where no teamwork is used? 'cause that doesn't sound like D&D at all. The problem with that plan is having the ally capable of flying without magic (no, those aren't everywhere), getting to the Wizard with AMF around you and making the Wizard stay in said AMF. Of course a Wizard is relatively screwed in an AMF next to a lockdown character. The problem is getting said lockdown character there.

Aparently you failed your rolls on knowledge(D&D discussions) and Knowledge(Sarcasm), since these discussions normaly involve 1x1 batles and individualistic spellcasters wich will run away with teleport leaving all their ex-allies behind whenever danger arises.



But honestly, instead of getting an ally and wasting a bunch of actions, just get a shaped AMF around you; that's much easier to get next to the caster than a full-on AMF (and much harder for them to stop you). With a shaped AMF, you can threaten an opposing caster, provided you're close enough, with your move action, with your standard action and with a swift action.


AMF+shaping is a bombo. Because AMF doesn't block line of effect.

So you cast AMF shaped around you, then the boss caster rofls and kills you anyway with his spell of doom, because your body is still vulnerable to magic, and AMF won't block the targeting! It doesn't do anything for you thanks to shaping!

But rejoice, because now the fighter can pick the not so smart paralyzed/mindraped/stoned caster now, tie it up to a javelin and impale the boss caster with it!

(Granted, you can still try to fly so you're right next to the other caster, and pray they don't take 5-foot steps, but don't think you're anyway safer from their magic)

[Jothki]

AMFs kind of bother me. It's the same thing as Knock, it's a case where a single spell has an absolutely powerful effect, without any way to mitigate it besides being a specific exception.

[Lycanthromancer]

My wizards would never be particularly worried about antimagic fields. They just cast shrink item on a Medium-sized dome or cone of some solid-but-lightweight-yet-strong material, and wear it as a hat. What happens when the antimagic field suppresses the shrink item effect?

Generally, psions are better with null psionics fields than wizards are, because they can actually treat their psicrystals as themselves for the purposes of targeting, and can do so from a considerable distance away. Then they just follow up with crystal powers until they can push the 'blend' button on their friendly neighborhood Cuisinart barbarian.

[Claudius Maximus]

Concerning casting AMF on a bullet, and assuming it does not go through the target, would the AMF, being an emanation, be able to affect the creature if it is embedded in its body? Would the flesh block Line of Effect?

[Myrmex]

Aparently you failed your rolls on knowledge(D&D discussions) and Knowledge(Sarcasm), since these discussions normaly involve 1x1 batles and individualistic spellcasters wich will run away with teleport leaving all their ex-allies behind whenever danger arises.



AMF+shaping is a bombo. Because AMF doesn't block line of effect.

So you cast AMF shaped around you, then the boss caster rofls and kills you anyway with his spell of doom, because your body is still vulnerable to magic, and AMF won't block the targeting! It doesn't do anything for you thanks to shaping!

But rejoice, because now the fighter can pick the not so smart paralyzed/mindraped/stoned caster now, tie it up to a javelin and impale the boss caster with it!

(Granted, you can still try to fly so you're right next to the other caster, and pray they don't take 5-foot steps, but don't think you're anyway safer from their magic)

Shaped AMF is a pretty quality "GTFO my face" effect for flying fighters and the like, though.

[Eldariel]

AMF+shaping is a bombo. Because AMF doesn't block line of effect.

So? That's not the point, it gets you past the whole fcking "get an ally to fly you near the opponent"; you can fly near the opponent yourself and suspend their protections if you succeed and if you don't, you only used your move action anyways. AMF is a 10 min/level spell; not like you need to cast it in combat. And yeah, it's also fine protection vs. opponents trying the same vs. you or melee types or some such.


And yeah, I got you weren't being serious about the entire post, but it's really hard to discern which part you meant and which you didn't, and what were you attempting to point out/ridicule with the post by being sarcastic.

Like, it could make a decent sarcastic response at e.g. someone stating "allies cannot help you get AMF to the evil caster" or some such, but by what you were referring to, it did not appear that way. Pardon I missed your wit.

[PhoenixRivers]

One option for personal spells is that you can have any spell that has a personal range be cast upon your familiar instead.

The air elemental trick works. Even better if you have a Widened AMF, with a 20 foot range. Air elementals can full run up to 400 feet, and can double move with perfect maneuverability, up to 200.

In short, with a little effort, you can get a wizard severely hampered with this.

Combine with reach/Range weapons that you know you'll need, and you can strip away magical defenses, and set up a normally superior caster for a nasty suprise.

[Tyndmyr]

Odds of a musket ball shattering on impact are still pretty high, historically. You can't really compare vs modern manufacturing practices, after all.

More importantly, ammunition that hits it's target is automatically destroyed by RAW. Misses have a 50% chance of destruction.

[Tar Palantir]

1. Activate Belt of Battle for an extra standard action.
2. Move up to caster (w/magical flight if necessary).
3. Activate Antimagic Torc.
4. Grapple.
5. ???
6. Profit!

[Sinfire Titan]

One option for personal spells is that you can have any spell that has a personal range be cast upon your familiar instead.

The air elemental trick works. Even better if you have a Widened AMF, with a 20 foot range. Air elementals can full run up to 400 feet, and can double move with perfect maneuverability, up to 200.

In short, with a little effort, you can get a wizard severely hampered with this.

Combine with reach/Range weapons that you know you'll need, and you can strip away magical defenses, and set up a normally superior caster for a nasty suprise.

That ability only works if the familiar is within a set 5ft distance of the master. He can't leave that distance or else the spell's effect ends.

[Douglas]

That ability only works if the familiar is within a set 5ft distance of the master. He can't leave that distance or else the spell's effect ends.
No, that's only for spells that you're trying to share so they affect both you and the familiar for only one casting. If you're casting it only on the familiar then it's still touch range but the familiar can go anywhere he likes afterwords.

[Sinfire Titan]

No, that's only for spells that you're trying to share so they affect both you and the familiar for only one casting. If you're casting it only on the familiar then it's still touch range but the familiar can go anywhere he likes afterwords.

Sorry, but you're wrong.


If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires.

[Douglas]

Funny how things change if you read the entire quote carefully.


Share Spells

At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

Note how the section I bolded is clearly separated from the proximity restriction by the word "additionally".

When you cast a spell on yourself, you can have it also affect your familiar for free. This benefit is limited by proximity. As a completely separate option, you can cast a personal range spell on your familiar instead of on yourself. This option has no such limit.

[minchazo]

So, as the original criticism in this thread went:


It's too hard to get close to a wizard
It's too easy to get out of one (5ft. steps, Contingencies, Invoke Magiced Dimension Doors).
A lot of magic isn't bothered by an AMF anyways (Instantaneous Conjurations....:/).


The first one seems to be a "Who goes first" issue.
Can I get a couple specific spells that would limit the last two? The 5 ft step isn't an issue, but what contingency would you set up? What's Invoke Magic? What instant conjuration isn't bothered? I'm really curious about this.

[lsfreak]

So, as the original criticism in this thread went:


It's too hard to get close to a wizard
It's too easy to get out of one (5ft. steps, Contingencies, Invoke Magiced Dimension Doors).
A lot of magic isn't bothered by an AMF anyways (Instantaneous Conjurations....:/).


The first one seems to be a "Who goes first" issue.
Can I get a couple specific spells that would limit the last two? The 5 ft step isn't an issue, but what contingency would you set up? What's Invoke Magic? What instant conjuration isn't bothered? I'm really curious about this.

The first one is also one of the hardest ones, at least if you're facing off against a wizard, thanks to their huge initiative modifiers (level 10 can have a +16 essentially without trying - Warning Weapon, Nerveskitter, ImpInitiave, and a +2 from any number of sources). Even Core-only where the modifer won't be anywhere near as high, the wizard will still on average win out. Unlike everything else, there's essentially no way to try outsmart it or limit it. Once you get Foresight + Celerity, it's game-over.

Contingency: "If an antimagic field activates within 100 feet of me, teleport to <place.>" Comes down to "what can contingency know."

Invoke Magic is a 9th level spell that lets you cast a single 4th-level or lower spell even inside an antimagic field. At the very least that's enough to DD out of anything. In the very best of circumstances, that means a non-wizard with an antimagic field needs to turn it off, activate a long-range teleport, and reactivate the antimagic field. By which time simple action economy takes over and the wizard is long gone, scrying on you and plotting your demise.

No instantaneous conjurations are bothered, because the magic is gone as soon as they're cast. You can't cast them from within an antimagic field, but that hardly matters thanks to your insane initiative and contingent teleport and Invoke Magic DD. Things like Orbs of x can be thrown into antimagic fields and still have full effect thanks to WotC's extremely poorly-thought-out school assignment for them.

[Starbuck_II]

Things like Orbs of x can be thrown into antimagic fields and still have full effect thanks to WotC's extremely poorly-thought-out school assignment for them.

Bah, PHB has an orb-like spell called Acid Splash. Note it is a Cantrip.

[minchazo]

Thanks IsFreak, that explains a lot!

Aren't you limited to one contingency spell? Would you really use it just for an AMF?

In short, for an AMF to be useful, your fighter would need:
1. Magic items to increase your initiative to insane levels
2. A full-proof (non-magical) method of disrupting any spell-casting within a threatened square
3. A method (again, non-magical) to stop casters from leaving your threatened square(s).
4. Hope their contingency spell doesn't mention an AMF.

Wow, just writing that down makes it look situational at best!

[lsfreak]

Bah, PHB has an orb-like spell called Acid Splash. Note it is a Cantrip.

There's a big difference between a Twinned Maximized Empowered Enervating 1d3-base-damage that isn't affected by antimagic, and a Twinned Maximized Empowered Enervating 15d6-base-damage that isn't affected by antimagic. Orbs also have better arguments going for them being able to later be picked up and chucked around for full damage, since they are by definition apparently cohesive balls of an element held together by something that's not magic.

[PinkysBrain]

Core has telekinesis ...

[lsfreak]

Aren't you limited to one contingency spell? Would you really use it just for an AMF?

Of all the contingencies, antimagic is one of the better ones. Other good ones are tied to the mere presence of another person, or any offensive act against you. Again, though, comes down to "what can Contingency know."
Of course, you can always get the feat Craft Contingent Spell, and now you have 21 contingencies, all tied to different things.


Wow, just writing that down makes it look situational at best!
Now you see the problem of arguing antimagic as a productive way of dealing with casters.

[minchazo]

I can just see it:

BBEG: Now face my wrath!
Wiz: I cast AMF!
BBEG: Contingent teleport back to stronghold
Wiz: I drop the AMF and *proceeds to destroy BBEG's bodyguards while he teleports back*

[Optimystik]

Size and strength are not essential. A small Air Elemental has a movement speed of 100ft. (perfect) and is on the Improved Familiar list. Cast AMF, have it target your familiar, it readies an action to move into the enemy Wizard's square.

Phantom Steed will allow that wizard to outrun your familiar with his readied move action from level 6 onward. Alternatively, Contingent Dimension Door, Prismatic Sphere/Wall, Benign Transposition with the Fighter, etc. No prepared wizard will fall victim to an AMF.

[Frosty]

Not only can you cast AMF on your familiar (you can because you can target your familiar even with spells that can only affect you, such as Tensor's Transformation and AMF), you can also literally THROW an AMF with the Master Specialist prestige class combined with Archmage.

Granted, this means you're a Wizard to begin with, but it's still fun. Summary:

1. With Archmage, you can choose to cast all Touch Range spells as a 30ft ranged spell instead and this does not increase spell level or anything.

2. Master Specialist (Abjuration) at level 10 allows you, for 3 times a day, cast an abjuration spell that can normally only be cast on yourself due to range (like AMF) as a Touch Range spell.

Therefore, 3 times, a day, you can choose to Touch someone with an AMF or throw one at them. And if you're feeling REALLY evil, wield a Metamagic rod of Chain Spell, and watch the original AMF split into 14 other AMFs affecting 14 secondary targets after you make the touch attack roll on the main target.

It's freakin evil, and I want to do it in a campaign.

[industrious]

Personally, I find a great way to stop a wizard is to target their spellbook. Screwing around with their ability to recharge spells really messes up their gameplay.

[Tyndmyr]

Yeah, that'll make a wizard cry.

Now, you may still die, but he'll be royally peeved.

[The Glyphstone]

Personally, I find a great way to stop a wizard is to target their spellbook. Screwing around with their ability to recharge spells really messes up their gameplay.

If you're a DM: No, that's just being a jerk, as much as arbitrarily Disintegrating the party fighter's armor/shield/weapon would be. You're turning them into a commoner with a PC's WBL, minus all the money they sunk into said spellbook.

If you're a Player: You're depriving your own party of loot without actually making the fight any easier for you. Silly choice, really.

[AstralFire]

Personally, I find a great way to stop a wizard is to target their spellbook. Screwing around with their ability to recharge spells really messes up their gameplay.

I find the best way to stop a wizard is a 'don't be a jerk' agreement.

There is no amount of playing by the rules that's going to stop a high level caster determined to screw your group if her player has access to the internet, short of gating in gods, and caster-ations (spell book/component removal, abuse of AMF) used more than once in a blue moon are not fun for many of their subjects, in my experience.

[Tyndmyr]

If you're a DM: No, that's just being a jerk, as much as arbitrarily Disintegrating the party fighter's armor/shield/weapon would be. You're turning them into a commoner with a PC's WBL, minus all the money they sunk into said spellbook.

If you're a Player: You're depriving your own party of loot without actually making the fight any easier for you. Silly choice, really.

I agree that it's a jerk thing to do...and it assumes the spellbook is targettable. Most wizards shouldn't just have it hanging out there, obviously visible as a spellbook.

Personally, I keep a light backup spellbook with the bare essentials. It doesn't even need to be yours, just a halfways decent looted spellbook. Between that and a decent collection of scrolls, you can recover from spellbook destruction. It is a giant hassle though, what with the copy rules. One best avoided.

[Eldariel]

I can just see it:

BBEG: Now face my wrath!
Wiz: I cast AMF!
BBEG: Contingent teleport back to stronghold
Wiz: I drop the AMF and *proceeds to destroy BBEG's bodyguards while he teleports back*

The Contingent Teleport probably teleports only ~500' back or so; you're still within his spell range but your AMF is unlike to be able to affect him. And of course, if he can Teleport to his Stronghold, he can Teleport back with one action too (quite possibly a Swift one if he happens to own a Rod of Quicken Spell).

Have I ever mentioned I love running BBEG Wizards? I can truly pull out all the stops and play the solo Wizard without worry about party dynamics...provided the party is up to the task, of course.

The Wizards' challenge rating includes Planar Bound monsters, Gates, Summons, Undead, Crafted Golems, Dominated servants, etc. and incredibly potent personal offense/defense suite. It's just awesome.

[Curmudgeon]

It's situational, of course, but there are ways to take out a Wizard using an Antimagic Field. My favorite uses a Favored Soul.

Wizards like to fly (using magic) to stay out of melee. Favored Souls of level 17+ have wings, which don't require magic to use. So the FS can fly 10' above the Wizard (using whatever spells or abilities to do so undetected), and cast Antimagic Field as they furl their wings. The Favored Soul and Wizard drop at the same rate, maintaining their 10' separation. As the Wizard goes splat, the FS unfurls wings and flies safely away.

[jokey665]

It's situational, of course, but there are ways to take out a Wizard using an Antimagic Field. My favorite uses a Favored Soul.

Wizards like to fly (using magic) to stay out of melee. Favored Souls of level 17+ have wings, which don't require magic to use. So the FS can fly 10' above the Wizard (using whatever spells or abilities to do so undetected), and cast Antimagic Field as they furl their wings. The Favored Soul and Wizard drop at the same rate, maintaining their 10' separation. As the Wizard goes splat, the FS unfurls wings and flies safely away.

That's awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Starbuck_II]

There's a big difference between a Twinned Maximized Empowered Enervating 1d3-base-damage that isn't affected by antimagic, and a Twinned Maximized Empowered Enervating 15d6-base-damage that isn't affected by antimagic. Orbs also have better arguments going for them being able to later be picked up and chucked around for full damage, since they are by definition apparently cohesive balls of an element held together by something that's not magic.

One is cantrip and the other is 4th level spell? I do find that a bif difference.
Now if we were comparing Lesser Orbs to the Cantrip the difference will be less.
Remember spells increase in Quads. So of course, a 4th level is way better than cantrip.

[lsfreak]

Personally, I find a great way to stop a wizard is to target their spellbook. Screwing around with their ability to recharge spells really messes up their gameplay.

An intelligent wizard - provided he doesn't have a *damn* good reason not to - will have all the bare essentials (i.e. web, glitterdust, stinking cloud, solid fog, enervation, orb of x, teleport, suggestion) tattoo'd onto his body anywho, so stealing his spellbook won't do a whole hell of a lot.

@Starbuck: Rereading your post, I took it incorrectly. But really, acid splash being an instantaneous Conj(creation) is a lot different than the orbs because the orbs are apparently held together without magic, whereas the acid splash is just that - a splash of acid. It'll absorb into the ground too fast to be able to pick it up and fling it at someone else, like you theoretically could with orbs.

[Grommen]

I find the best way to stop a wizard is a 'don't be a jerk' agreement.

There is no amount of playing by the rules that's going to stop a high level caster determined to screw your group if her player has access to the internet, short of gating in gods, and caster-ations (spell book/component removal, abuse of AMF) used more than once in a blue moon are not fun for many of their subjects, in my experience.

That goes for any player determined to mess with your game. I don't have issues with casters, simply because my players are there to have fun. Not exploit things. Most of them hate wizards cause they don't have enough hit points and they don't want to look up spells all the time.

Anyway if I needed to use an Anti-Magic Field on someone. Well it would be as equally thought out as this. I think I would go with Shooting them with a bullet. And I would have more than one shot just in case they ran off the first time.

[Xenogears]

It's situational, of course, but there are ways to take out a Wizard using an Antimagic Field. My favorite uses a Favored Soul.

Wizards like to fly (using magic) to stay out of melee. Favored Souls of level 17+ have wings, which don't require magic to use. So the FS can fly 10' above the Wizard (using whatever spells or abilities to do so undetected), and cast Antimagic Field as they furl their wings. The Favored Soul and Wizard drop at the same rate, maintaining their 10' separation. As the Wizard goes splat, the FS unfurls wings and flies safely away.

If you don't want to be a Favoured Soul then you could use the feathered wing graft from the Fiend Folio (Also non-magical. Evil only without serious penalties but hey 10k for infinite non-magical flight is nice.) along with the Third Eye Graft (Beholders Central Eye 3/day cone of antimagic) although the 165k price tag is bad but hey now any class can play sky chicken with the wizard.