PDA

View Full Version : Monks belt and you



dougch
2009-10-20, 04:56 PM
just wondering has there ever been any change to the text of the monks belt? and if so where would it be in our group currently the issue is that one person belives its just the +1 ac that a 4th level monk has or the 1+wis that the rest of us like?

any info from the peanut gallery?

Paulus
2009-10-20, 04:59 PM
Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Huh... it doesn't say anything about stats to AC. weird.

Draken
2009-10-20, 05:06 PM
AC Bonus (Ex)
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Since the belt gives AC bonus equal to that of a monk of 5th level/5 levels higher. It gives Wis to AC. Because Wis to AC is something a first level monk gets under the AC Bonus class feature quoted above.

sadi
2009-10-20, 05:13 PM
By just reading the item description and looking at the monk chart I always thought it was just a +1 ac bonus. When I actually read the monk ac as listed
in their class description I then think its wis +1. It's all about the phrase "In addition" for me. So as long as whoever is wearing it is not wearing armor they get wis + 1. I've been looking for any errata concerning it and never had any luck.

ericgrau
2009-10-20, 06:07 PM
Monks more or less get +1 AC. All others get +1 AC and wis to AC, provided that they meet the standard monk requirements for being unarmored. Just like a 5th level monk.

IIRC it's in the FAQ if you want to check.

The Glyphstone
2009-10-20, 06:16 PM
It's hard to argue that it's not RAI either, since if it were that, 28,000 for +1 untyped AC would be absolutely horribly overpricedx.

Douglas
2009-10-20, 06:17 PM
It grants the AC bonus of a 5th level Monk. This is not at all unclear and is unambiguously 1 + wisdom bonus. It also requires that you be unarmored. It takes a pretty spectacular wisdom before the bonus outweighs the loss of the armor you might otherwise wear, and I don't think there is any wisdom based class with no armor proficiency that doesn't already have a wisdom to AC ability that doesn't stack with the Monk's.

ericgrau
2009-10-20, 06:20 PM
It's hard to argue that it's not RAI either, since if it were that, 28,000 for +1 untyped AC would be absolutely horribly overpricedx.
Untyped bonuses are rarely overpriced. At some level it will be your cheapest source of AC, even for just a +1 and no wis bonus. At that same level you'll have hundreds of thousands of gp to throw around, so it won't be a big deal. Cheaper than upgrading your ring of protection to +5 anyway. And it's 13,000 gp, btw.

Clerics and wizards can also make good use of a monk's belt.

sadi
2009-10-20, 06:23 PM
Monks more or less get +1 AC. All others get +1 AC and wis to AC, provided that they meet the standard monk requirements for being unarmored. Just like a 5th level monk.

IIRC it's in the FAQ if you want to check.

QFT

Does a monk’s belt (DMG 248) grant a non-monk
wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC?
Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus
only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly
states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC
bonus.”
The monk’s belt says it grants the “AC bonus” of a 5thlevel
monk. What does that mean?

When the monk’s belt refers to the “AC bonus” of a 5thlevel
monk, it is referring to the monk ability called AC bonus.
It grants +1 bonus to AC and adds your Wisdom modifier to
your Armor Class if you are not wearing armor and are not
encumbered.

As page 62 of the 3.5 main FAQ, clearly answers the question.

The Glyphstone
2009-10-20, 06:27 PM
Untyped bonuses are rarely overpriced. At some level it will be your cheapest source of AC, even for just a +1 and no wis bonus. At that same level you'll have hundreds of thousands of gp to throw around, so it won't be a big deal. Cheaper than upgrading your ring of protection to +5 anyway. And it's 13,000 gp, btw.

Clerics and wizards can also make good use of a monk's belt.

My bad. 13K then.

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-20, 06:28 PM
It grants the AC bonus of a 5th level Monk. This is not at all unclear and is unambiguously 1 + wisdom bonus. It also requires that you be unarmored. It takes a pretty spectacular wisdom before the bonus outweighs the loss of the armor you might otherwise wear, and I don't think there is any wisdom based class with no armor proficiency that doesn't already have a wisdom to AC ability that doesn't stack with the Monk's.Grab yourself a magic vestment spell, greater/mage armor, inertial armor, or a psychoactive skin of proteus. It's also good for characters that metamorphosis, polymorph, or wild shape, since they don't typically use armor anyway.

Tehnar
2009-10-20, 06:33 PM
Its one of those items which is safe to nerf so it doesn't provide a wis bonus to AC. For 13k it provides lots of good things.

Besides doing that helps to avoid kung-fu bears.

deuxhero
2009-10-20, 06:39 PM
Not really. There are cheaper ways to get (feat and class level) free improved unarmed strike

http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/feats.html

add a +1 armor bonus AC on any of them (the bracers require a +1 as well) and you get a wis to ac less monk's belt .

ericgrau
2009-10-20, 06:52 PM
An armor bonus to AC is far worse than an untyped bonus to touch AC, for reasons given above.

Draken
2009-10-20, 06:56 PM
Its one of those items which is safe to nerf so it doesn't provide a wis bonus to AC. For 13k it provides lots of good things.

Besides doing that helps to avoid kung-fu bears.

Why would you want to avoid Kung-fu bears?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-20, 07:00 PM
Because they'll kick your ass if you get in their way, obviously. :smallwink:

Lycanthromancer
2009-10-20, 07:05 PM
Are they soccer-playing kung-fu bears?

With lay-zhers?

Draken
2009-10-20, 07:12 PM
Ocular spell. Eye lazers.

dougch
2009-10-20, 08:18 PM
where is the mini faq your referring to?

Milskidasith
2009-10-20, 08:24 PM
It grants the AC bonus of a 5th level Monk. This is not at all unclear and is unambiguously 1 + wisdom bonus. It also requires that you be unarmored. It takes a pretty spectacular wisdom before the bonus outweighs the loss of the armor you might otherwise wear, and I don't think there is any wisdom based class with no armor proficiency that doesn't already have a wisdom to AC ability that doesn't stack with the Monk's.

Druid. Add in a wilding clasp, and you're awesome!

Curmudgeon
2009-10-20, 09:05 PM
Not really. There are cheaper ways to get (feat and class level) free improved unarmed strike

http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/feats.html
It's nice to see that people are referencing my work in assembling that list, but do note that a Monk's Belt does not grant Improved Unarmed Strike.

And to answer the question about the FAQ entry, it's on page 62 (Updated 6/30/08), in the "Equipment" section.
Does a monk’s belt (DMG 248) grant a non-monk wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC?
Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.”

Tyndmyr
2009-10-20, 09:15 PM
It grants the AC bonus of a 5th level Monk. This is not at all unclear and is unambiguously 1 + wisdom bonus. It also requires that you be unarmored. It takes a pretty spectacular wisdom before the bonus outweighs the loss of the armor you might otherwise wear, and I don't think there is any wisdom based class with no armor proficiency that doesn't already have a wisdom to AC ability that doesn't stack with the Monk's.

Depends on class, too. If you have a high wisdom arcane caster(ie, you had a pretty generous point buy), monks belt is pretty much awesome. I've got a wizard right now with an 18 wis, because our group took the attitude that pouring points at everyone helps the weaker classes more(and it does, the pally does pretty good under this system).

So, with 18 wis, I get +5 untyped AC, and frankly, I wasn't gonna ever wear armor as a wizard anyhow. This pulls my unbuffed AC up to 20, just from wis and dex bonus. With a bit of work, I can hit 30 AC without breaking a sweat, and this is at level 7. It eats my wealth, granted, but there's something to be said for not getting hit.

dougch
2009-10-20, 09:30 PM
It's nice to see that people are referencing my work in assembling that list, but do note that a Monk's Belt does not grant Improved Unarmed Strike.

And to answer the question about the FAQ entry, it's on page 62 (Updated 6/30/08), in the "Equipment" section.

can oi please get a link or a location please not just a quote

Douglas
2009-10-20, 10:09 PM
So, with 18 wis, I get +5 untyped AC, and frankly, I wasn't gonna ever wear armor as a wizard anyhow. This pulls my unbuffed AC up to 20, just from wis and dex bonus. With a bit of work, I can hit 30 AC without breaking a sweat, and this is at level 7. It eats my wealth, granted, but there's something to be said for not getting hit.
You have 20 dexterity, 18 wisdom, and enough left over to have a good wizard's intelligence too? What did your group do, give everyone all 18s? Pardon me if I don't consider your example really relevant to judging normal balance.

Also, most of the tricks wizards can do to buff their AC without rendering a Monk's Belt useless can also be cast by the Wizard on his Monk friend. The likely difference between the Monk's wisdom and the Wizard's approximately makes up the difference. If this isn't broken on a Monk at no equipment cost, why would it be broken on a Wizard at a cost of 13000 gp? Yes, there are situations where the Monk's Belt is superior to other options even for normal AC, but rarely by a large margin. If you remove the wisdom to AC part of the bonus, it's not even close to worth the price for any but very high level characters who wouldn't wear armor anyway.

The 3.5 official FAQ can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a).

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 08:20 AM
Nah. Good point buy, combined with allowing negative points to provide additional ones, as per how most online point buy calculators work. So there are tradeoffs, like having three strength.

This isn't standard, of course, but it's reasonable to consider that arcane casters may have positive wis modifiers, and won't be wearing armor. High wis isn't the most critical stat, but it tends to rank higher than str and cha. Likewise, I wouldn't automatically assume that a monk has good wis. It's valuable sure, but so are plenty of other stats.

Broken, not broken, I dunno, but 13k for a few untyped AC is pretty valuable, especially to arcane casters, as they are unlikely to wear armor anyhow.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-21, 08:21 AM
Nah. Good point buy, combined with allowing negative points to provide additional ones, as per how most online point buy calculators work. So there are tradeoffs, like having three strength.

This isn't standard, of course, but it's reasonable to consider that arcane casters may have positive wis modifiers, and won't be wearing armor. High wis isn't the most critical stat, but it tends to rank higher than str and cha. Likewise, I wouldn't automatically assume that a monk has good wis. It's valuable sure, but so are plenty of other stats.

Broken, not broken, I dunno, but 13k for a few untyped AC is pretty valuable, especially to arcane casters, as they are unlikely to wear armor anyhow.

Couldn't the casters get +1 Mithtal thwilight Chainshirt for less than 13K? Add in +1 Mithral Buckler for Shield AC.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 08:31 AM
True, but neither of those are untyped, and non-proficiency can be annoying. If you are getting those, instead of relying on magical buffs, you still have no reason to not stack a monks belt with them. After all, the waist slot isn't that critical for casters anyway.

ericgrau
2009-10-21, 11:11 AM
Neither has an armor check penalty, which means there's no non-proficiency penalty. You can't combo a monk's belt with armor. You could combo it with mage armor though. And if you're pulling in twilight mumbo jumbo, you probably have access to greater mage armor. From there it gets confusing and situational when the armor is better and when the monk's belt is better.

Stegyre
2009-10-21, 12:22 PM
can oi please get a link or a location please not just a quote
FAQ may be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a)
For future reference, you can locate it pretty readily by just searching "wotc faq." That's what I do.

AstralFire
2009-10-21, 01:25 PM
Its one of those items which is safe to nerf so it doesn't provide a wis bonus to AC. For 13k it provides lots of good things

No, it doesn't. The improved unarmed damage is worthless (even for a monk, you usually have better things to get...), you can't wear armor while it's on. The Monk's belt is just bad design, largely owing to the fact that the class it is designed upon is, as well.

cZak
2009-10-21, 01:44 PM
Stupid & broken magic item...
This item is built for players to abuse the system.

Why is the monk class the only one that has a magic item that basically boosts the class by five levels?
Granted there are items that boosts caster level or turn level, but not to this extent.
Why not a ranger item that boosts their favored enemy, a paladin's smite, a rogue's sneak attack or a druid's wild shape by five levels?



Fools are made to suffer, not to be suffered

jokey665
2009-10-21, 01:45 PM
Stupid & broken magic item...
This item is built for players to abuse the system.

Why is the monk class the only one that has a magic item that basically boosts the class by five levels?
Granted there are items that boosts caster level or turn level, but not to this extent.
Why not a ranger item that boosts their favored enemy, a paladin's smite, a rogue's sneak attack or a druid's wild shape by five levels?

Because monks are bad. Like, really really bad.

Milskidasith
2009-10-21, 01:50 PM
Because monks are bad. Like, really really bad.

Not to mention that... but for actual monks, it's a +1 untyped bonus to AC. For 13k, at higher levels it's invaluable... but it's only worth it for unarmored, high wis types that aren't monks and don't want to burn a dip into monk.

Paulus
2009-10-21, 01:50 PM
Stupid & broken magic item...
This item is built for players to abuse the system.

Why is the monk class the only one that has a magic item that basically boosts the class by five levels?
Granted there are items that boosts caster level or turn level, but not to this extent.
Why not a ranger item that boosts their favored enemy, a paladin's smite, a rogue's sneak attack or a druid's wild shape by five levels?

Because somewhere along the line the designers actually got a look at what they made and were so shocked they had to come up with something to help, sadly, they didn't even create a bandaid for the problem... they created a belt which only emphasized how poorly designed the monk is because even with the impressive sounding "improves the class by five levels" it still was not enough power to make the monk any better, they basically just gave them more rope to hang themselves with.

incidentally... now do you know why the Monk's Belt is a simple piece of rope?

Fluffles
2009-10-21, 01:52 PM
Because it's only use is a 2 level dip. So if you want to be a higher level you just take the item.

Totally Guy
2009-10-21, 02:02 PM
Level 20 monk takes off his monk's belt:

"It seems the belt didn't do anything. All I needed was confidence in myself.":smallcool:

Forget classes and levels, isn't self confidence the true power?

Paulus
2009-10-21, 02:10 PM
Level 20 monk takes off his monk's belt:

"It seems the belt didn't do anything. All I needed was confidence in myself.":smallcool:

Forget classes and levels, isn't self confidence the true power?


CW Samurai, true namer: YES, DON'T LET THE DREAM DIE!
Every other class: HA HA HA! Right yes, confidence. Why not?
Green Star Adept: Hurm... seem to have left mah shoes somewhere...

Totally Guy
2009-10-21, 02:24 PM
Green Star Adept: Hurm... seem to have left mah shoes somewhere...

"I have lot of confidence! They're tasty and look like pebbles."

-Green Giant (http://www.jollygreengiant.co.uk/#/home/)

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-21, 02:34 PM
No, it doesn't. The improved unarmed damage is worthless (even for a monk, you usually have better things to get...), you can't wear armor while it's on. The Monk's belt is just bad design, largely owing to the fact that the class it is designed upon is, as well.

Yes. Let's take a look at what the belt provides for its price:


AC Bonus (either +1 or Wis+1).
Unarmed Damage, effectively a Longsword. Note that it does not grant IUS, so all Unarmed Damage is nonlethal without a penalty and that the attacks provoke AoOs. If you are all ready a Monk, you get improved damage.
An extra use of the Stunning Fist feat, if you all ready had it. Worthless to most.


So for 13K, a Non-Monk character gets either a +1 bonus to AC and a really crappy Longsword, or Wis+1 to AC and a really crappy Longsword.














I think it's safe to assume that the Devs meant it to be the latter.

ericgrau
2009-10-21, 02:40 PM
Stupid & broken magic item...
This item is built for players to abuse the system.

Why is the monk class the only one that has a magic item that basically boosts the class by five levels?
Granted there are items that boosts caster level or turn level, but not to this extent.
Why not a ranger item that boosts their favored enemy, a paladin's smite, a rogue's sneak attack or a druid's wild shape by five levels?

Except, y'know for saves, BAB, HP, SR and class features. It provides maybe 3 damage and 1 AC. It's ok at high levels for a monk.

It's worth it at very high levels as the cheapest source of AC (and it is cheap at those same levels) for a monk, some clerics, wizards and sorcerers. It's untyped AC and all the other cheap options are already taken, so that's why.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-21, 03:10 PM
Why is the monk class the only one that has a magic item that basically boosts the class by five levels?
It's only a partial boost, affecting unarmed damage and AC bonus. The Monk's BAB, saves, flurry of blows, slow fall, bonus feats, ki strike, and many other class features are not boosted.

Why not a ranger item that boosts their favored enemy, a paladin's smite, a rogue's sneak attack or a druid's wild shape by five levels?
There are. An Enemy Spirit Pouch boosts a Ranger's favored enemy bonus by +2, which normally takes the Ranger 5 class levels. A Hunting weapon boosts the favored enemy damage by +4, equivalent to 10 Ranger levels. A Deadly Precision weapon boosts sneak attack by +1d6 (effectively 2 Rogue class levels), as does a Rogue's Vest (another 2 Rogue levels). A Wild Shape Amulet allows a Druid to use their wild shape ability as if they were four levels higher. Additionally, Beastskin armor works even while the Druid is in wild shape, effectively making them a more powerful creature, and Armor of Dragonshape allows the Druid to wild shape into a dragon, adding a fourth shape type to the Druid's portfolio (after animal, plant, and elemental shapes, which the Druid gains about every 5 levels).

So you see, the Monk isn't really getting much in the way of special treatment (though obviously they can use it).

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 03:29 PM
It's a decent piece of gear. It's definitely not overpowered.

I could see the argument that it's a terribly commonly chosen bit of gear for monks, but have you ever tried to gear out a monk? It sucks. The amount of good melee stuff that isn't armor based, and is still synergistic w a monk is small.

I mean, you *could* take a belt of strength. Or you could take a Monks Belt and spend some coin later to add Str and Con to it via MiC.

ErrantX
2009-10-21, 03:36 PM
AC Bonus (either +1 or Wis+1).
Unarmed Damage, effectively a Longsword. Note that it does not grant IUS, so all Unarmed Damage is nonlethal without a penalty and that the attacks provoke AoOs.

I've always given it Wisdom+1 to AC, but as far as the damage, it says you deal damage as a 5th level Monk. A 5th level monk's barehand damage is lethal, so therefore while it doesn't give you the feat, you act as if you had it (therefore deal lethal damage).

My interpretation, YMMV.

-X

cZak
2009-10-21, 03:45 PM
There are. An Enemy Spirit Pouch boosts a Ranger's favored enemy bonus by +2, which normally takes the Ranger 5 class levels. A Hunting weapon boosts the favored enemy damage by +4, equivalent to 10 Ranger levels. A Deadly Precision weapon boosts sneak attack by +1d6 (effectively 2 Rogue class levels), as does a Rogue's Vest (another 2 Rogue levels). A Wild Shape Amulet allows a Druid to use their wild shape ability as if they were four levels higher. Additionally, Beastskin armor works even while the Druid is in wild shape, effectively making them a more powerful creature, and Armor of Dragonshape allows the Druid to wild shape into a dragon, adding a fourth shape type to the Druid's portfolio (after animal, plant, and elemental shapes, which the Druid gains about every 5 levels).

Each of these are class specific, not so the Monk Belt; anyone can wear it and benefit.



Note that it does not grant IUS, so all Unarmed Damage is nonlethal without a penalty and that the attacks provoke AoOs. If you are all ready a Monk, you get improved damage.

I didn't realize this part... I made the mistake of it granting Imp Unarmed Strike (UAS) which would made it much more effective in my mind for non-monk characters.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 03:47 PM
The ability for other classes to do unarmed damage as a fifth level monk is pretty meaningless at any level they'd be purchasing a monk's belt at.

They're buying it for the AC.

AstralFire
2009-10-21, 03:51 PM
The earliest level at which one can reasonably expect to have a Monk's Belt is 10th (1/3 of total WBL on one item) or 11th (1/4 of total WBL on one item.)

For those levels, there are few situations in which one is encountering level appropriate challenges where a Greatsword specialized fighter goes "Gee, I wish I could deal 1d8+Str mod damage with no ability to bypass any damage reduction while provoking an attack of opportunity." They are pretty much limited to suddenly being grappled by a relatively equal-sized creature in an anti-magic field, one who is not specialized in wrestling.

Tehnar
2009-10-21, 04:01 PM
The problem with monk's belt comes up with druids. The only "bad" thing about wildshape is its poor AC. A monks belt easily fixes that weakness with the druids ability to bump wisdom into the upper 40s. So that +Wis +1 becomes +14-16 AC, which is also touch and full dex modifier applies. Kind of superior to any other form of armor, don't you think?

Clerics can do the same thing, and better, thought they have to burn a miracle to do it. (For those who are wondering how: owls insight and divine agility)

So I would suggest if you have the type of players that will pull that is to restrict the monks belt to purely +1. Even then its useful for the high dex types.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 04:10 PM
Upper 40s seems high. Assuming starting with 20 due to an 18 and a +2 racial, you get an additional 4 from levels, we'll assume a +6 enhancement bonus from an item, and a +5 inherent bonus from wish/times. That'd be 35.

Owl's wisdom is also enhancement, so that's an either/or with the stat item. Same boost either way.

Druid's retain their original mental scores when shifting, so that's out as a boost means. Im not familiar with divine agility, but unless it adds a *lot* of wisdom, Im not seeing this sick boost.

Most I see via standard means is +13AC. This is still pretty good, mind you, but upper 40s isn't a level of stat boosting that's normally accessible pre-epic.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-21, 04:13 PM
Clerics can do the same thing, and better, thought they have to burn a miracle to do it. (For those who are wondering how: owls insight and divine agility)
This sounds fishy to me. Owl's Insight provides a temporary boost to Wisdom. Divine Agility provides a temporary boost to Dexterity. Miracle can request anything, but a single casting and 5,000 XP is generally limited to what can deliver a +1 inherent boost to one ability, as that's a specific use for Miracle in crafting an item such as a Tome of Understanding or Manual of Quickness of Action.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-21, 04:16 PM
Mind you, any way to pump ability scores to high 40s or higher ranges would be quite welcome here. It's just rare to find stat boosts that are not either enhancement or inherent.

Milskidasith
2009-10-21, 04:19 PM
Upper 40s seems high. Assuming starting with 20 due to an 18 and a +2 racial, you get an additional 4 from levels, we'll assume a +6 enhancement bonus from an item, and a +5 inherent bonus from wish/times. That'd be 35.

Owl's wisdom is also enhancement, so that's an either/or with the stat item. Same boost either way.

Druid's retain their original mental scores when shifting, so that's out as a boost means. Im not familiar with divine agility, but unless it adds a *lot* of wisdom, Im not seeing this sick boost.

Most I see via standard means is +13AC. This is still pretty good, mind you, but upper 40s isn't a level of stat boosting that's normally accessible pre-epic.

You get five from levelups, which puts it at 36, which is a +14. /nitpick

Tehnar
2009-10-21, 05:14 PM
Owl's insight gives you a insight bonus to your wisdom equal to half your caster level (its a different spell then Owls wisdom, it is in spell compendium). Divine agility adds 10 enhancement bonus to dex. A cleric can use miracle to cast Owl's insight and doesn't have to pay the xp cost.

So for wisdom a starting 16 + 5 levels + 5 tome + 6 enhancement + 12 owl's insight = 44, and as corrected by Milskidasith that is a +17.

And of clerics can DMM persist the whole lot. So you get a whole lot of AC for a cheap investment of 13k, and buffing your casting stat, something you probably do anyway.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-21, 05:21 PM
Each of these are class specific, not so the Monk Belt; anyone can wear it and benefit.

Unless you're wearing armor, which is most classes...
Enemy Spirit Pouch isn't ranger-specific IIRC. The others might also not be.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-22, 04:41 AM
Enemy Spirit Pouch isn't ranger-specific IIRC. The others might also not be.
It is specific to Rangers if you want the favored enemy bonus. Other items are specific to class features (favored enemy, sneak attack) rather than classes.