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deuxhero
2009-10-20, 06:00 PM
I don't get the rules here that well.

From what I understand, a creature gets only 1 attack with each natural weapon regardless of BAB, but can use all natural weapons (all non-primaries get a -5 peneltys, regardless of how many there are) on a full attack, regardless of number or BAB. Do I have that right?

How does carrying a manufactured weapon and having natural attacks (like a web enchancment Kobold, templated creature or spell/power given natural weapons) work?

Zaydos
2009-10-20, 06:02 PM
If you have a manufactured weapon all your natural weapons are treated as secondary weapons.

If you have iterative attacks from a high BAB a manufactured weapon and natural weapons you make your attacks with your manufactured weapon normally and then may make all your natural weapon attacks at -5 and 1/2 strength to damage as normal for secondary weapons. Note: Some spell granted natural weapons specifically can't be used in conjunction with manufactured weapons and/or other natural weapons.

I hope this has been helpful.

Edit:

From what I understand, a creature gets only 1 attack with each natural weapon regardless of BAB, but can use all natural weapons (all non-primaries get a -5 peneltys, regardless of how many there are) on a full attack, regardless of number or BAB. Do I have that right?

Yes that is correct

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 06:06 PM
In general, you can't use the same limb twice in the same round. So a kobold could either make to claw attacks, one claw attack & one one-handed weapon attack (like a dagger or rapier or something), or a single attack with a two-handed weapon, such as a greatsword.

If the kobold has a BAB of 6 or higher, he could make a full attack with the dagger in his one hand, then make a claw attack with the other hand.

If you've got something with tentacles or a bite, say an Illithid, then you get full attack from BAB, followed by 4 tentacle attacks.

If you are a monk, you can make a full attack flurry with your foot/head/knees/whatever, followed by your natural weapons. So a kobold monk flurrying at level one would get head butt/kick/claw/claw.

SurlySeraph
2009-10-20, 06:07 PM
There's a caveat in that if your natural weapon is on a limb that you need to hold a manufactured weapon, you can't use that natural weapon. For example, if you're humanoid with two claws, then you can't hold a sword and use both claws because you're holding the sword in one of your claws. But that's not outright stated in the rules (just reflected in the stat blocks), and not always strictly enforced.

deuxhero
2009-10-20, 06:11 PM
There's a caveat in that if your natural weapon is on a limb that you need to hold a manufactured weapon, you can't use that natural weapon. For example, if you're humanoid with two claws, then you can't hold a sword and use both claws because you're holding the sword in one of your claws. But that's not outright stated in the rules (just reflected in the stat blocks), and not always strictly enforced.

Hold or use? Because you can hold most 2 handed weapons in one hand (just not use them).

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 06:14 PM
Hold or use? Because you can hold most 2 handed weapons in one hand (just not use them).

You couldn't make an attack with a greatsword in two hands, followed by any claw attacks, unless you had more than two appendages with claws on them to attack.

See above for kobold example.

Since the monk treats his whole body as a weapon, he can circumvent this rule.

KillianHawkeye
2009-10-20, 06:20 PM
I find that this is best to explain using examples, so let's use that kobold you mentioned. Let's call him "Steve" and assume that he has a BAB of +6/+1.

So, if Steve is otherwise unarmed, he can make a full-attack using his claw/claw/bite routine at +6/+6/+1. Note that since the bite attack is a secondary natural weapon, it's not dependant on BAB and can still be used even if Steve's BAB was lower than +6.

Now, if Steve picks up a short sword and wants to add it to his full-attack, he must sacrifice one of his claw attacks to do so, because holding the sword prevents him from using his claws. In addition, all of his natural attacks become secondary attacks. His new full-attack becomes short sword +6/+1, claw +1, and bite +1.

Finally, if Steve had the Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feats, he could sacrifice both claw attacks to wield a pair of short swords. He'll take a -2 to his weapon attacks from Two-Weapon Fighting (since his off-hand weapon is light), but the penalty doesn't apply to his remaining natural attack (his bite). In this situation, his full-attack becomes short swords +4/+4/-1/-1 and bite +1.

EDIT: Ninja'd! But I have examples, so.... :smallsigh:

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 06:22 PM
Doh, I forgot kobolds got bite attacks.

I'd like to point out that the -2 penalty from TWF applies to ALL your attacks that round, the bite included.

KillianHawkeye
2009-10-20, 06:33 PM
I'd like to point out that the -2 penalty from TWF applies to ALL your attacks that round, the bite included.

Not according to the SRD. I checked before I posted.


If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way.

Those are the basic penalties, which can be partially alleviated by wielding a light weapon in your off-hand and taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

As you can see, it only mentions penalties to your primary hand and your off hand. I don't see why the bite should be penalized.

Myrmex
2009-10-20, 06:35 PM
Well, that is good to know.