Person_Man
2009-10-21, 09:50 AM
So my Guide to Melee Combat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) is getting more and more complete. But a big piece that I'm missing is probably one of the more requested pieces of optimization advice - Power Attack (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Power_Attack). So I thought I'd start a thread on the subject.
Advice on Optimizing Power Attack:
1) Power Attack usually doesn't "kick in" until ECL 6ish. Between ECL 1-5, the To-Hit penalty usually doesn't justify the 2-10 point damage increase that you get in return compared to other combos that are available to you. So if you know that your campaign is going to end at low levels, look elsewhere.
2) Unless you have full BAB, Power Attack is probably not an efficient choice for you. There are plenty of ways to get a high damage output that don't involve Power Attack. And there are plenty of other combos (see the link above). Power Attack may be the most popular choice for melee builds, but it is not always the best.
3) You are usually better off using Power Attack with a two handed weapon, as opposed to Two Weapon Fighting. This is primarily because Two Weapon Fighting requires a heavy feat investment (which could otherwise be used to directly improve your Power Attack other ways) and requires a high Dexterity (which is nice if you have it, but a melee build is generally better off putting it's highest stat into Strength, since it improves damage and doesn't require Weapon Finesse to improve your To-Hit). If you're wedded to TWF for other reasons, be sure to pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (Complete Warrior) or Improved Unarmed Strike (PHB, weaker option, unless your build also focuses on improving unarmed damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777)) so that you can apply Power Attack to every attack.
4) Be mindful of the To-Hit penalty. If you're not careful, you'll often whiff more then you hit. Check out any Power Attack Calculator (http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/power/), and get used to guessing your enemy's AC (by keeping track of what rolls hit or miss against them) so that you can figure out the best penalty to take for your attacks each round. At higher levels, you can solve this problem by taking Shock Trooper (shifting the penalty to AC, more on this later), by getting access to Touch Attacks (Flame Blade, Fire Lash, Wraithstrike, Spectral Weapon, Bloodstorm Blade + Master Thrower), by denying your enemy their Dexterity bonus (just read any Rogue thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6893722&postcount=35)), and/or various other bonuses (Tome of Battle, Incarnum, psionics, Greater Magic Weapon, Knowledge Devotion, flanking, etc).
5) You need Pounce or Free Movement (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358). This is true of most melee builds. But it's worth mentioning here because it's essentially a "hidden" cost to making a build that relies on Power Attack. If you don't have Pounce or something like it, you're screwing yourself out of a Full Attack some rounds, and drastically reducing your potential damage output.
6) Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior) is a great feat. It shifts the To-Hit penalty of Power Attack to your AC, and gives you some useful Bull Rush manuevers. However, it requires Improved Bull Rush as a pre-req, can only be used on Charge attacks, and makes you an easy target. So if you choose to use it, I highly suggest picking up a Bull Rush related combo to make the pre-req useful, get Pounce, and get a vapiric healing/Karmic Strike (King of Smack) and/or battlefield control combo to defend against counter attacks and/or Miss Chance (Cloak of Displacement, Blur, etc).
7) Damage from Power Attack can be greatly increased via:
Leap Attack: Increases Power Attack ration on Charge if you can make an easy Jump check. Can't be combined with mounted Charge. Complete Adventurer.
Lance: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. Remember that you can use it two handed, or with Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Pounce. Also a reach weapon, which is pretty much a requirement for many melee builds. PHB.
Spirited Charge: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. PHB.
Riding Boots: Unnamed bonus to Ride, and if you have Spirited Charge you further multiply your damage when you Charge. DMGII pg 270.
Centaur: Multiplies damage on a Charge as a racial ability. Use Polymorph or something similar. Monster Manual.
Headlong Rush (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a): Multiplies damage on any Charge, but provokes an attack of opportunity from everyone who threatens you (including your target). This can be avoided with a reach weapon. Or it can be used to your advantage with a King of Smack Karmic Strike/Vampiric Claws combo. Player's Guide to Faerun.
Rhino's Rush (Pal 2): Immediate Action spell. Multiplies damage on a Charge. If necessary, make a Wand, and put it in a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape pg 34). Spell Compendium.
Battle Jump: Multiplies damage on a Charge if you drop from at least 10 feet above your enemy - which can be done with a moderately high Jump check, or by attacking from higher ground. Unapproachable East.
Valorous weapon enhancement: Multiplies damage on a Charge. Unapproachable East.
Frenzied Berserker: Gets a higher Power Attack multiplier, but comes with a lot of potential issues (like killing all of your party members). Complete Warrior.
Anything with a good critical hit range or multiplier. Given the existence of the Scabbard of Keen Edges (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scabbard_of_Keen_Edges), I personally never bother with the Keen enhancement or wasting a feat on Improved Critical when there are so many other better options for feats. But this is debatable. PHB/DMG.
Most things that add extra attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) will also greatly increase your damage output when combined with Power Attack (including natural attacks).
Dragonborn (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) (wings option) or Raptorian with 12 HD or more can fly, and make a diving charge attack with a piercing weapon that deals double damage.
8) Don't over do it. Seriously. There are plenty of ways to get thousands of points of damage per round. But the Tarrasque (www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) only has 858 hit points. Pushing your damage output up to absurd levels just forces the DM to make the encounters more difficult. And if the other players in your party are not optimized to a similar degree, you could end up constantly stealing the spotlight in combat and making the game less fun for everyone. Exactly how good your damage should be depends on your gaming group, so there is no "right" answer about how high your damage should be. Just be mature about how you choose to optimize.
All comments, additions, and debate are welcome.
Advice on Optimizing Power Attack:
1) Power Attack usually doesn't "kick in" until ECL 6ish. Between ECL 1-5, the To-Hit penalty usually doesn't justify the 2-10 point damage increase that you get in return compared to other combos that are available to you. So if you know that your campaign is going to end at low levels, look elsewhere.
2) Unless you have full BAB, Power Attack is probably not an efficient choice for you. There are plenty of ways to get a high damage output that don't involve Power Attack. And there are plenty of other combos (see the link above). Power Attack may be the most popular choice for melee builds, but it is not always the best.
3) You are usually better off using Power Attack with a two handed weapon, as opposed to Two Weapon Fighting. This is primarily because Two Weapon Fighting requires a heavy feat investment (which could otherwise be used to directly improve your Power Attack other ways) and requires a high Dexterity (which is nice if you have it, but a melee build is generally better off putting it's highest stat into Strength, since it improves damage and doesn't require Weapon Finesse to improve your To-Hit). If you're wedded to TWF for other reasons, be sure to pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (Complete Warrior) or Improved Unarmed Strike (PHB, weaker option, unless your build also focuses on improving unarmed damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777)) so that you can apply Power Attack to every attack.
4) Be mindful of the To-Hit penalty. If you're not careful, you'll often whiff more then you hit. Check out any Power Attack Calculator (http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/power/), and get used to guessing your enemy's AC (by keeping track of what rolls hit or miss against them) so that you can figure out the best penalty to take for your attacks each round. At higher levels, you can solve this problem by taking Shock Trooper (shifting the penalty to AC, more on this later), by getting access to Touch Attacks (Flame Blade, Fire Lash, Wraithstrike, Spectral Weapon, Bloodstorm Blade + Master Thrower), by denying your enemy their Dexterity bonus (just read any Rogue thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6893722&postcount=35)), and/or various other bonuses (Tome of Battle, Incarnum, psionics, Greater Magic Weapon, Knowledge Devotion, flanking, etc).
5) You need Pounce or Free Movement (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358). This is true of most melee builds. But it's worth mentioning here because it's essentially a "hidden" cost to making a build that relies on Power Attack. If you don't have Pounce or something like it, you're screwing yourself out of a Full Attack some rounds, and drastically reducing your potential damage output.
6) Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior) is a great feat. It shifts the To-Hit penalty of Power Attack to your AC, and gives you some useful Bull Rush manuevers. However, it requires Improved Bull Rush as a pre-req, can only be used on Charge attacks, and makes you an easy target. So if you choose to use it, I highly suggest picking up a Bull Rush related combo to make the pre-req useful, get Pounce, and get a vapiric healing/Karmic Strike (King of Smack) and/or battlefield control combo to defend against counter attacks and/or Miss Chance (Cloak of Displacement, Blur, etc).
7) Damage from Power Attack can be greatly increased via:
Leap Attack: Increases Power Attack ration on Charge if you can make an easy Jump check. Can't be combined with mounted Charge. Complete Adventurer.
Lance: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. Remember that you can use it two handed, or with Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Pounce. Also a reach weapon, which is pretty much a requirement for many melee builds. PHB.
Spirited Charge: Multiplies damage on Charge from a mount. PHB.
Riding Boots: Unnamed bonus to Ride, and if you have Spirited Charge you further multiply your damage when you Charge. DMGII pg 270.
Centaur: Multiplies damage on a Charge as a racial ability. Use Polymorph or something similar. Monster Manual.
Headlong Rush (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a): Multiplies damage on any Charge, but provokes an attack of opportunity from everyone who threatens you (including your target). This can be avoided with a reach weapon. Or it can be used to your advantage with a King of Smack Karmic Strike/Vampiric Claws combo. Player's Guide to Faerun.
Rhino's Rush (Pal 2): Immediate Action spell. Multiplies damage on a Charge. If necessary, make a Wand, and put it in a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape pg 34). Spell Compendium.
Battle Jump: Multiplies damage on a Charge if you drop from at least 10 feet above your enemy - which can be done with a moderately high Jump check, or by attacking from higher ground. Unapproachable East.
Valorous weapon enhancement: Multiplies damage on a Charge. Unapproachable East.
Frenzied Berserker: Gets a higher Power Attack multiplier, but comes with a lot of potential issues (like killing all of your party members). Complete Warrior.
Anything with a good critical hit range or multiplier. Given the existence of the Scabbard of Keen Edges (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scabbard_of_Keen_Edges), I personally never bother with the Keen enhancement or wasting a feat on Improved Critical when there are so many other better options for feats. But this is debatable. PHB/DMG.
Most things that add extra attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) will also greatly increase your damage output when combined with Power Attack (including natural attacks).
Dragonborn (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) (wings option) or Raptorian with 12 HD or more can fly, and make a diving charge attack with a piercing weapon that deals double damage.
8) Don't over do it. Seriously. There are plenty of ways to get thousands of points of damage per round. But the Tarrasque (www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) only has 858 hit points. Pushing your damage output up to absurd levels just forces the DM to make the encounters more difficult. And if the other players in your party are not optimized to a similar degree, you could end up constantly stealing the spotlight in combat and making the game less fun for everyone. Exactly how good your damage should be depends on your gaming group, so there is no "right" answer about how high your damage should be. Just be mature about how you choose to optimize.
All comments, additions, and debate are welcome.