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Superglucose
2009-10-21, 11:23 PM
Slightly different than the other player problems I've posted here...

I'm running my players through (more or less) The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Since it's me, and it's my closer friends, it's a moderately high-powered campaign (we started at 6th, which isn't "high" but they've been gaining levels very quickly indeed). I invited a couple of relative newbies to play, and one of them was really excited about playing a Sorceror. See, even though she was a relative newbie to 3.5, I had been assured that both she and her bf had extensive experience using other systems, and that her bf had a lot of 3.x experience. That was fine by me, we can brush them up and sort of do a trial by fire. It's how I learned, and I'm sure it's how most of us learned (my first character was a wizard, my first encounter pitted us, a party level 2, against a 5th level wizard and a 6th level fighter), and with experienced players, we can make this work. For the record, I learned at age 12.

This person shows up, and doesn't know anything, hasn't read up on how to cast spells, doesn't know how to learn spells, and doesn't understand or know her class features.

Well, neither does her boyfriend.

Unfortunately, I kind of like this girl (no, not like THAT kind of like, I mean, she and I always roleplay well together no matter what our character's personalities are) and enjoy playing with her. So it would be kind of rude to say "I think my game's a little over your head." Or would it? I don't know.

Any ideas on what I should do?

(For the record, I don't have any sort of rapport with her BF, and he's as bad as she is without the redeeming quality of good roleplaying.)

sadi
2009-10-21, 11:49 PM
Several options

1)Have them show up early and teach them the basics.
2)Have a new campaign run at level 1 for a while instead of thowing them in without a clue at higher level.
3)Tell them to read the rules and if they don't want to put any effort into figuring out the system then they can not play/otherwise be a jerk about it.

New players are that, new. Just because they know a system doesn't mean they know the system you're playing, or even if they do mean they know the rules the way you interpret them. In general communication solves most problems, talk to them see what they understand and what questions they have and go from there.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-21, 11:56 PM
You should probably type up some advice for playing a sorcerer and hand it to her, perhaps along with some example builds.

FoE
2009-10-22, 12:03 AM
Coach her a bit outside of the game. Or ask her what she does know how to play and start over.

karnokoto
2009-10-22, 01:49 AM
Having played 3.5 a couple times and being able to rattle off how to cast a spell are two different things, IMHO.
I like the idea of having them come early so you can go over basics with them.

Hell, I've been playing for 3 years and I still forget to add my str bonus to my attack rolls sometimes.

Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-22, 01:54 AM
My wife sometimes gets lost with the amount of options available to higher level characters, and can spend ages trying to figure out what to do next when it's her turn in the initiative.
She's been playing for a few years, but we rarely get much higher than 10th before a campaign is over.
She's a perfectionist, and doesn't like to do something "wrong".

So we run little skirmish battles from time to time, to get her used to the options she's got. We're also working on the idea that there is no "wrong" move - if she's figured out a set of actions that would be helpful, and the situation changes at the last minute, she's okay to go with the first thing she thought of.
These skirmishes take the form of random snippets of dungeon filled with a few CR=PC encounters. There are no in-campaign consequences to these sessions - her character can die and I won't let it affect the game, but she gets no XP... they're just practice. And great fun - all the risky flashy things can be tried out for effectiveness.

The trouble is, with experienced players at the table, the less tactical players can feel that everyone is judging their actions on a scale of purely tactical competence - and they can end up somewhat brain-locked and confused. Depending on their personality, this can drive them into stalling behaviour and over-analysis, because of fear of bad judgement by their peers.
That's not an enjoyable RP experience. The RP can be lost if the player's INT and WIS are more important in the game than the PC's. And feeling pressured isn't fun.

The Too long; didn't read version? Be gentle to newbies, and don't judge players badly for their character actions. Also - coaching session can be fun.

FerhagoRosewood
2009-10-22, 02:16 AM
Honestly, if you like her as a player and think she would do well in role playing... I'd say like others have said, that being to guide her outside of game. It also wouldn't hurt to run the first few sessions a little slower to that they can pick up the slack during that time. Just like a video game start with a tutorial dungeon/first chapter.

Good luck.

^-^

Rhiannon87
2009-10-22, 07:43 AM
Yeah, have them both over prior to game a few times to help them learn the rules. Put together "cheat sheets" with quick references for things-- how ranged touch attacks work, how to calculate save DCs, things like that. If you've got the time, a computer, and a printer, have her put together her spell list, then copy-paste the descriptions from the SRD and assemble a printed list so she's not flipping through the PHB every time she wants to cast. Thankfully she's playing a sorcerer so this is actually an option.

3.5 has a learning curve to it. Be patient and give them some time to learn the rules. If they're really resistant to this whole extra-work-to-learn thing, well, that's a whole other issue. (I have a player in my group who's like that. We're grateful he can't make it to game very often.) But most players do want to learn the rules and understand the game. And during game, get the more experienced players to help-- if you've got someone who's familiar with casters, have them (politely and nicely!) help out the sorcerer. Someone who's familiar with whatever the other new player is playing, help him out. They'll learn the basics after a few sessions, and they'll pick up the rules on more complex things as they come up, and they, like everyone else, will still have to look up turning undead or grappling even after they've been playing for years. :D

pasko77
2009-10-22, 07:54 AM
I had the same problem time ago.
The smart solution is: give them characters simple to use (first time a barbarian, then a ranger instead of a druid, a sorcerer instead of a wizard and so on) and teach them.
You should definately try hard not to judge their learning speed and teach them the basics of tactics and of roleplaying.
In the long run you will be happy of this.