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View Full Version : [3.5]Unequip a weapon w/o dropping as free action?



Sintanan
2009-10-22, 04:39 PM
Is it possible to "unequip" a weapon without dropping it as a free action?

I'm trying to build a character that can use a polearm and sword at the same time, but I want to be able to sheath or keep the sword in a easy to reach spot and still get in a two-handed attack with the polearm when it is advantageous.

* Dancing enchantment requires a standard action.
* Quick Draw doesn't mention sheathing a weapon.
* To put away a weapon normally takes a move-action.
* I've heard of a Quick Sheath feat, but I can't find the rulebook it's in...

Tyndmyr
2009-10-22, 04:42 PM
For small weapons, you can tie them to you so that they dangle out of the way once dropped. I can't imagine pulling this off with a polearm without having your DM reach for encumbrance rules, though. For the sword...possible, I guess, but still, a sword hanging around could be awkward/dangerous, depending on your DM's mood.

Unless it's a magical item, I'd just drop it, and scoop it up post-fight.

deuxhero
2009-10-22, 04:49 PM
Can you even dual wield a polearm (short spear is one handed, but isn't a reach weapon) in the first place?

And what kind of build uses spell casting and dual wield anyways? Ranger? Assassin prc?

If you have spent a feat on quickdraw, I'd allow sheething quickly.

Sintanan
2009-10-22, 04:49 PM
Dancing seemed similar to what I wanted, so I looked at the requisite spell... animate object.

So, would it be too far beyond an animated object's "intelligence" to grasp the command of "Whenever I let go of you, return yourself to your sheath?" Or would that not even be possible from the "This spell cannot animate objects carried or worn by a creature." line in the spell description?

Tyndmyr
2009-10-22, 04:54 PM
Well, you could animate it while it's not being carried, presumably. If it's an intelligent weapon, Im sure it could grasp simple commands presuming it has an int of at least 3.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-22, 05:53 PM
You want to get a Spare Hand (Magic Item Compendium, page 137).

Darrin
2009-10-22, 09:49 PM
Is it possible to "unequip" a weapon without dropping it as a free action?


The Gnome Quickrazor can be drawn and sheathed as a free action. It's one of the lynchpins of The Other Killer (Melee) Gnome build, and various obscene things you can do with Iajutsu focus or Pandemonic silver. RAW is a bit dodgy, though, as it says something about sheathing at the end of the round rather than whenever you like, but I've never seen anyone really argue that point.

As far as polearms go... you'll probably want to look at a Glove of Storing, or it's more affordable version, Glove of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk p. 71, 3600 GP). This allows you to store or retrieve an item as a free action, up to 20 lbs. If you need to store two items at once, then take a look at the Kimono of Storing (Oriental Adventures, 20000 GP per non-online errata).

A Spare Hand (MIC p. 137) might work, but rules-wise has some issues... even with a 3rd level infusion, it can only wield a light weapon (so a normal-sized polearm or longsword wouldn't quite work). The description says it can hold an item, but it's not clear what kind of action you'd need to transfer your grip or pass a weapon from one of your hands to another.

Beyond that... here's one of my older posts on a few different methods to get an extra set of hands (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6771254&postcount=14).

Dexam
2009-10-22, 10:03 PM
Is there any particular reason why you want to be able to use both a polearm and a sword? If changing from a reach weapon to a non-reach weapon is an issue, with the Short Haft feat from Players Handbook II you can use a swift action to change a reach weapon (except whip or spiked chain) to non-reach, and vice-versa (i.e. a swift action to change back to using it as a reach weapon). Pre-reqs are BAB +3 and Weapon Focus in the reach weapon.

Myrmex
2009-10-22, 10:48 PM
Alternatively, wear a gauntlet or have armor spikes.

Sintanan
2009-10-23, 12:17 AM
It's not a question of reach or anything, it's a question of roleplaying for the current encounter.

Before the current adventure got in full swing, the party hung around the town's tavern, asking the [currently stationed] troops about their commander and how skilled he was with weapons... before I thought about it, I responded that the commander is skilled in weapons to the point he's developed a fighting style using both sword and polearm at the same time...

Now, things could have been left alone right there, but one of the party has pointed out with the end of this current adventure, that he would like to train under the commander and pick up his style... without thinking things through, I said the commander would be willing to train him since he helped out with their dilemma (the latest adventure).

So, we packed things up for the session and on the way out the door the player asked what feats he'll need to learn.

...

I was thinking, simply, it would just be a case of monkey grip and one-handing the polearm... but then that wouldn't be that extraordinary for his signature he's known by, so I was thinking along the lines of switching between sword and polearm attacks, and the closest I could come up with is a free-action to sheath it for a 2-h attack with the held spear.


I'll look into the gloves option, and the quickrazor... the last thing I want to do is make Quick Draw allow for free-action sheathing, as the Samurai in the party would break D&D... in the face... hard.

Dexam
2009-10-23, 12:54 AM
Hmmm... as far as I'm aware, nothing in the RAW prevents a character with BAB +6 (or higher) and Quick Draw from making a two-handed attack with a polearm, switching the polearm to a single hand, quick drawing a one-handed sword, taking a 5' step and using the sword for any secondary attacks, all as a full-round action. Others more knowledgeable than I should be able to let you know if this is legitimate or not.

If you want something extra-special, personally I would home-brew a Weapon Style feat that allows the user to weild a sword and polearm at the same time (pre-reqs to include TWF and Monkey Grip) with some sort of bonus; or one that lets you quick sheath a one-handed sword without provoking an AoO when holding a polearm in the off-hand (pre-reqs to include Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (any polearm), and Weapon Focus (any one-handed sword)). See Complete Warrior and Races of Stone for examples of Weapon Style feats.

Shhalahr Windrider
2009-10-23, 08:34 AM
For small weapons, you can tie them to you so that they dangle out of the way once dropped.
Dangle all over and around your forearm? With an open blade? Doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.


Now, things could have been left alone right there, but one of the party has pointed out with the end of this current adventure, that he would like to train under the commander and pick up his style... without thinking things through, I said the commander would be willing to train him since he helped out with their dilemma (the latest adventure).

So, we packed things up for the session and on the way out the door the player asked what feats he'll need to learn.
Sounds to me like you want a custom Weapon Style feat, just like Dexam said. Especially since this is a unique style that the captain himself invented. Nothing screams "custom" more than that.

Person_Man
2009-10-23, 09:11 AM
Before the current adventure got in full swing, the party hung around the town's tavern, asking the [currently stationed] troops about their commander and how skilled he was with weapons... before I thought about it, I responded that the commander is skilled in weapons to the point he's developed a fighting style using both sword and polearm at the same time...

Now, things could have been left alone right there, but one of the party has pointed out with the end of this current adventure, that he would like to train under the commander and pick up his style... without thinking things through, I said the commander would be willing to train him since he helped out with their dilemma (the latest adventure).

You could teach him to fight with a polearm and a Blaidbrade (Dungeon 120). It's basically an dagger you tie into your hair. On a full attack, allows you to make an extra attack at -5, or -2 if you have 5 ranks of Tumble.

There's also the Spinning Sword (Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136). Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. You could basically count it as a polearm, and arm him with a sword in the other hand.

There's also the Ritiik (Frostburn). If you successfully hit an enemy with a Ritiik, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. Basically a weaker version of Knock-Down. IIRC, the weapon sticks inside of your enemy. So you could smack him with it, get your free Trip attack, and then switch to a second weapon.

There's also a weapon property which let's you transform a weapon into any other weapon. (Can't remember the name right now - Shifting?) It's a Standard Action to use, but as DM you could just give him a weapon that changes from a polearm to a sword as a Free or Immediate action.

You could also pull it off by taking the Sidestep feat (Miniatures Handbook), which lets you take an extra 5ft step once per round after you attack. Smack an enemy with your polearm, Quickdraw a sword, and then finish up your attack.

Person_Man
2009-10-23, 09:12 AM
Before the current adventure got in full swing, the party hung around the town's tavern, asking the [currently stationed] troops about their commander and how skilled he was with weapons... before I thought about it, I responded that the commander is skilled in weapons to the point he's developed a fighting style using both sword and polearm at the same time...

Now, things could have been left alone right there, but one of the party has pointed out with the end of this current adventure, that he would like to train under the commander and pick up his style... without thinking things through, I said the commander would be willing to train him since he helped out with their dilemma (the latest adventure).

You could teach him to fight with a polearm and a Blaidbrade (Dungeon 120). It's basically an dagger you tie into your hair. On a full attack, allows you to make an extra attack at -5, or -2 if you have 5 ranks of Tumble.

There's also the Spinning Sword (Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136). Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. You could basically count it as a polearm, and arm him with a sword in the other hand.

There's also the Ritiik (Frostburn). If you successfully hit an enemy with a Ritiik, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. Basically a weaker version of Knock-Down. IIRC, the weapon sticks inside of your enemy. So you could smack him with it, get your free Trip attack, and then switch to a second weapon.

Similarly, I think there's a Bleeding/Wounding magic weapon somewhere that sticks inside your enemy and deals Con damage every round. I can't recall the source, but that would also solve the dropped weapon problem.

There's also a weapon property which let's you transform a weapon into any other weapon. (Can't remember the name right now - Shifting?) It's a Standard Action to use, but as DM you could just give him a weapon that changes from a polearm to a sword as a Free or Immediate action.

You could also pull it off by taking the Sidestep feat (Miniatures Handbook), which lets you take an extra 5ft step once per round after you attack. Smack an enemy with your polearm, Quickdraw a sword, and then finish up your attack.

Clementx
2009-10-23, 09:20 AM
Easiest solution is to correct Quickdraw's omission of sheathing weapons, and allow sheathing as part of movement with BAB+1. It still provokes, so I haven't found it to be problematic. Sure, you can bounce your ranged, reach, and melee weapons as need arises, but that is what soldiers should be able to do.

And it is one of the good general feats which are useful, but because it does not lead to ubercharger or lockdown, people foolishly decry as useless. I mean, who takes Improved Initiative (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH5fC9H8yJA&feature=related)? (7:00 in for specific hilarity, start at the beginning for general awesomeness)

Your alternative is to have it be a separate feat, with Quickdraw as a prerequisite, which allows you to fully swap weapon-like objects without AoOs as free actions.

hamishspence
2009-10-23, 09:24 AM
The kusuri-gama (DMG version) seems like one of the rare weapons which is:

Light weapon.
Reach weapon.
Usable at normal range.
Good at tripping
Good at disarming.

Might do the job of an ordinary polearm, while still being useful up close.

It's exotic though.

Zovc
2009-10-23, 09:30 AM
Monks can do something like this with their flurry of blows, can't they? That is, draw and attack with any monk weapons on their person. If they can, look at this wording and try to make it work as a feat with reasonable prerequisites (monkey grip and two-weapon fighting). If not, word it yourself, and have people in the Homebrew Design thread look at it.

Oh, and...
http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/hildegard-von-krone-in-soul-calibur-4.jpg

Shhalahr Windrider
2009-10-23, 09:39 AM
Monks can do something like this with their flurry of blows, can't they? That is, draw and attack with any monk weapons on their person.
Nothing special there. You just don't have to sheath your unarmed strike (for obvious reasons). And since an unarmed strike can represent a kick, knee, headbutt, elbow, or other such attack, you don't have to have your hands free to use it. It's not a special monk thing, but a consequence of the nature of unarmed strikes. A consequence that doesn't apply to swords, polearms, or most other natural weapons.

Zovc
2009-10-23, 09:53 AM
I see. Then, I'd probably let it work with Monkey Grip and a TWF feat. If it turned out to be too powerful, I'd just reserve the next character's feat and give them a shield bonus when they didn't attack with one of their weapons.

AugustusGloop
2009-10-23, 10:20 AM
How about a sword that attaches to the haft of the polearm, perhaps as an extra blade. While connected, the polearm does another +? or +d? with a penalty to hit since it's heavier, but as a swift action the blade can be detached (or reattached), for a one handed strike at a bonus to hit but penalty to damage. In round one, a +6 bab would allow a polearm/sword strike and a detach sword/sword strike. In round 2, a sword strike, sword attach, and polearm/sword strike.

It's got some cool final fantasy style fluff, a few bonuses that won't break your game, and requires some monetary investment, since you can't pick these these things up at Trader Joe's.

Barmacral
2009-10-23, 10:33 AM
You want to get a Spare Hand (Magic Item Compendium, page 137).

This.

The spare hand allows you to move objects in and out of the extra hand as a free action; it will hold the sword for you when you need the extra hand for the polearm.

Sintanan
2009-10-23, 02:42 PM
Alright then.. a custom feat would be the best way to go to keep with the fluff I have going in the game so far:


SCORPION STRIKE[STYLE]
You have mastered the unique style of interchanging melee and reach attacks. This style allows you to keep foes at just the right distance for all your tactical maneuvers.
..Prerequisites: Dex 13, Monkey Grip, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (halberd, lance, or longspear), Weapon Focus (longsword, scimitar, or shortsword).
..Benefit: You may draw or sheath a one-handed or light weapon in which you have Weapon Focus with your main hand as part of a move or attack action one per round. Additionally, during a full-attack action, your polearm in which you have Weapon Focus carried in your off-hand is treated as a light weapon for the purposes of determining two-weapon fighting attack penalties only.


EDIT: Anything anyone sees wrong with the wording that would allow someone to massively abuse this?