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Dust
2009-10-22, 05:16 PM
So here's the situation. I play a LOT of rpgs, but it's been mostly White Wolf or obscure martial arts systems thus far, and I somehow managed to never get into DnD. I'm joining a campaign as a player, and thus bought the three-book box set (PhB, MM1, DMG) to get started, as well as read these forums constantly to get a handle on things.

The GM is an 'anything goes...optimize away!' type, so we have some sort of psionicist fighter, some aberrant creation from ToB, batman, and a min/maxed charging kensai. Or kensai-to-be, I'm not sure which precisely.

Here's the catch. We're only allowed to use feats and resources and the like from books we physically own. I don't know why the GM has this rule, but he enforces it with an iron fist. Even having the books available at every game isn't good enough.

That's the premise, the problem should be fairly self-explanatory. I'm looking to build a a character that will - at the very least - not be a burden on the rest of the party. Does anyone have any suggestions for a workable setup using only the PhB (and DMG for prestige classes)?

Dust
2009-10-22, 05:17 PM
I should note that we're starting at level 8, but with no wealth to begin with.

Arbitrarity
2009-10-22, 05:19 PM
You can't really go wrong with a cleric or druid here. Both are excellent classes, work well with little cash, aid the party, who seem to lack in the divine department, and can contribute solidly, with little effort.

Tavar
2009-10-22, 05:22 PM
Druid is better from a Core only standpoint. Get Natural spell at level 6 and you're pretty much good to go. Other good feats are Augment Summoning(requires Spell focus conj) if you want to summon(you do), Multiattack(in the MM or SRD), and Improved Natural attack(same).

HCL
2009-10-22, 05:23 PM
Forest Gnome druid is the safe choice for such a situation. My feat tree would go

1 Spell focus conjuration
3 Augment Summoning
6 Natural Spell

and summon all day and all night with a brown bear or giant crocodile companion

If you want to play an "interesting" character, go for a Choker monk or druid instead

Eldariel
2009-10-22, 05:24 PM
The better ones:
Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5
Cleric 14/Thaumaturgist 5/Hierophant 1

Some slightly weaker options (in caster multiclasses; would benefit from additional sources greatly):
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4
Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 2
Rogue 1/Wizard 6/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Archmage 2
Rogue 1/Wizard 6/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3

Pick up Craft-feats, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, maybe Power Attack and just profit of your spells. Augment Summoning is a fairly good feat too. Druid obviously has Natural Spell at 6. Also note that Improved Familiar is v. good for everyone who qualifies, particularly Rogue/Wizards.

Few martial builds:
Rogue 19/Barbarian 1
Barbarian 14/Sorcerer 2/Dragon Disciple 4
Ranger 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Horizon Walker 10/(Ranger or Barbarian) 5

Basically all should pick up the Improved Trip-line + Combat Reflexes, and Mounted Combat, etc. if possible. Leadership can get a pimpy mount if you can't get your caster to Planar Bind a Nightmare (they're legal cohorts). Improved Trip is the best combat option and Mounted Charge with Spirited Charge does by far the best damage out of all options.

Semi-decent Gishes but without 9th level spells (if it wasn't clear yet, 9th level spells are by far the best thing existent in Core):
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 2
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 2/Eldritch Knight +7/Archmage +2


Oh yeah, and Leadership is the best feat in Core. Everyone should have it if available.

As for Races, the best are:
Dwarf: For just about everyone
Gnome: Casters are decent as Gnomes, as are Rogues. Rogues might consider Halfling too.
Human: Particularly skill monkeys and casters who can actually utilize the bonus feats - in core, they are worse than anywhere else since feats are only decent for casters in Core. Bonus skill points are nice though.
Gray Elf [MM]: Wizards & Wizard multiclasses. A possibility Rogues too, provided you can deal with the Con penalty.
Orc [MM]: Every Warrior-type who can afford the Int-penalty should be one of these.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-22, 05:27 PM
Can't go wrong with a druid with spellfocus conjuration, augment summoning and natural spell ... walk around all day as a Dire Ape.

PS. arcane gishes aren't that much fun with only core spells.

Dust
2009-10-22, 05:28 PM
Whoa, thanks for all the great suggestions so quickly. I'm feeling less underwhelming already. :smallbiggrin:

Vangor
2009-10-22, 05:38 PM
DRUIDDRUIDdruid

You only need Natural Spell and a high Wisdom.

However, the only books you own rule is rather aggravating, since all of the Extra Class Feature (Wild Shape) should be standard, and Natural Bond is a rather obvious. Ask him to include all the Completes.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-22, 05:41 PM
Meh, I wouldn't take wild shape powered feats even if they were available ... and the natural bond trick is pure cheese anyway.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-22, 05:43 PM
Any full caster.

Ive seen that rule before...it does help to keep people playing stuff they know better, but it also tends to bias things in favor of people with stupid book collections like me.

Not to worry too much, though, you can certainly make plenty of good characters in pure core.

sofawall
2009-10-22, 05:49 PM
Forest Gnome druid is the safe choice for such a situation. My feat tree would go

1 Spell focus conjuration
3 Augment Summoning
6 Natural Spell

and summon all day and all night with a brown bear or giant crocodile companion

If you want to play an "interesting" character, go for a Choker monk or druid instead

You can't.

Curmudgeon
2009-10-22, 06:01 PM
If you want to play an "interesting" character, go for a Choker monk or druid instead
Not in the core books. Choker has "--" for Level Adjustment, meaning it isn't suitable for player characters.

Vangor
2009-10-22, 06:09 PM
Meh, I wouldn't take wild shape powered feats even if they were available ... and the natural bond trick is pure cheese anyway.

Not talking wild shape powered feats, merely Extra Wild Shape is a huge boon to early Druids by allowing them to wild shape often enough. After a while this becomes nearly pointless, but still allows Druids to change to, say, a warrior or a flier or a swimmer without removing the combat utility.

Plus, Great and Small is fantastic. Become a rhinoceros with a winged mask, wilding clasp, and use rhino's rush to splat airborne targets.

I am unaware what the Natural Bond trick is, as I always use the feat exactly how it is intended; choose an animal for a companion based on druid level, and reduce the negative modifier by three when determining bonus hd, str, ac, etc.. If this is a trick...

Eldariel
2009-10-22, 06:15 PM
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention: There are lots of free, perfectly legal and official sources available online, so as long as the limitation is "material you have access to", you can use SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) and all the stuff in Guide to Free D&D (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0) (basically a compilation of all things released as web previews, web enhancements or such).


These could enhance things a lot; in core, the best melee is basically Tripper or Mounted Charge, the best (and only real) skill monkey is either Rogue or Rogue/Wizard and the casters are the only classes with any real variety.

I forgot some gimmicky casters like Cleric 15/Hierophant 5 picking Spell Power 5 times (this, combined with the Orange Prism Ioun Stone and Beads of Karma enables CL increase of 10 over your normal maximum and that in turn enables you to kill or disable just about anything of non-your alignment with the Holy Word-line). It's pretty awful otherwise since it loses so many caster levels, but it has one very potent trick in the Holy Word-line since it's so hard to resist (only Spell Resistance, which is hardly a problem when casting at HD+10, Horizon Walker & alignment can counteract that).

I forgot to mention, Rogue 19/Shadowdancer 1 is a very solid build too; that's the only real way to get Hide in Plain Sight for a Rogue (though SRD offers more options already, like Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue)). But yeah, even in Core, you can be perfectly competitive, especially as a full caster. Indeed, the best spells are pretty much all Core. You just have to know what to pick.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-22, 06:18 PM
Even having the books available at every game isn't good enough

:(

Maybe "buy" the relevant books if they're being loaned and then "sell" them back at appropriate times?

PinkysBrain
2009-10-22, 06:23 PM
Not talking wild shape powered feats, merely Extra Wild Shape is a huge boon to early Druids by allowing them to wild shape often enough.
He is starting at 8th, so he has enough for round the clock wildshape. He can't vary forms, but without wilding clasps he very rarely should anyway (he almost certainly would lose spell slots by losing his periapt of wisdom).

sadi
2009-10-22, 06:35 PM
Core only you can do a decent druid, especially if you have zero wealth to begin. This guy sounds harsh, I'd definitely ask about spell books before I make a character, I wouldn't want to make a wizard and have him say sorry you don't get a spell book that counts as part of your wealth. How are you doing stats? Point buy or some other method, that will help with any other possible build options.

deuxhero
2009-10-22, 06:58 PM
Will or will not the DM allow SRD content? I'm asking because your wording says one thing, but the presance of a psion says another.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-22, 06:59 PM
We need moar reading. :smallannoyed:


We're only allowed to use feats and resources and the like from books we physically own.
Presumably the psionicist owns EPH, and the ToB person owns the Tome of Battle.