PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Need help keeping a lv.1 Commoner alive until he gets lv.2



Pika...
2009-10-23, 04:24 AM
I am currently stating up a parallel universe version of one of my former PCs (a Kobolds ate my Baby themed kobold subrace named "Dogbolds", but this one has a goatee) for when my current DM finishes his current campaign and moves up to his next one. The thing is the last one had a gimmick which which dealt with the Chicken Flaw. While the last time I started him a higher level, for the parallel universe one I will need to survive lv.1 of commoner. However, I am actualy looking forward for the roleplaying AND survivalist challenge. :smallamused:


So, how would you recommend I do this? Basically, the "Dogbolds" have the same stats as a Kobold, but are furry instead of scales and...well if you've played KamB you know....

Also, he allows the web enhancement claw and bite attacks.

Emperor Tippy
2009-10-23, 04:34 AM
Well, you go and set up a town boxing tournament between you and the other commoners. Since all you guys can deal is non lethal damage you don't have to worry about death and assuming 2 equal level commoners you should win half of your fights (or more). Each win is overcoming a challenge with a CR equal to your ECL. 4 or 5 fights and you should level, iirc (maybe less).

Grumman
2009-10-23, 04:43 AM
Well, you go and set up a town boxing tournament between you and the other commoners. Since all you guys can deal is non lethal damage you don't have to worry about death and assuming 2 equal level commoners you should win half of your fights (or more). Each win is overcoming a challenge with a CR equal to your ECL. 4 or 5 fights and you should level, iirc (maybe less).
This is incorrect. A Commoner 1 only has a CR of 1/2, not 1.

Zaydos
2009-10-23, 04:48 AM
This is incorrect. A Commoner 1 only has a CR of 1/2, not 1.

Which would bring it up to 7 fights if the DM gives full XP for that. Since to gain XP also implies that your character was placed in danger, or at least it did in 2nd edition, and DMs sometimes dislike tricks to get XP with no threat to your character you might want to make sure with your DM. Otherwise... no idea on keeping a commoner alive I've never tried it.

Tengu_temp
2009-10-23, 05:01 AM
Maximize Handle Animal, train attack dogs and other cheap beasts that will do the fighting for you.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-23, 05:12 AM
This is incorrect. A Commoner 1 only has a CR of 1/2, not 1.

Which is funny, considering that it's been proven that, statistically, a common domesticated cat (CR¼) has a better-than-even chance of killing a 1st-level Commoner.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 05:15 AM
Maximize Handle Animal, train attack dogs and other cheap beasts that will do the fighting for you.

Hmm....

Very interesting.

Perhaps he can get a cow as well.



Which is funny, considering that it's been proven that, statistically, a common domesticated cat (CR¼) has a better-than-even chance of killing a 1st-level Commoner.

I recently tossed an encounter of four cats against my group of four Plv.1 PCs. It was fun, but slightly disappointing.

BobVosh
2009-10-23, 05:35 AM
Just buy a spell component pouch and flood the world with chickens. You know you want to. All the cool kids are doing it.

Anyway....sell chickens, buy alchemist fire. Repeat until you feel confident.

I'm assuming you have the chicken infested flaw as you mentioned it.

Telonius
2009-10-23, 07:54 AM
Maximize Handle Animal, train attack dogs and other cheap beasts that will do the fighting for you.

Such as, chickens!
(Note that Tel does not support real-world cockfighting).

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-23, 08:03 AM
Which is funny, considering that it's been proven that, statistically, a common domesticated cat (CR¼) has a better-than-even chance of killing a 1st-level Commoner.

Commoner has ranged attacks. Cat doesn't. Commoner has tactics. Cat doesn't. Commoner should have a faster speed, even if only marginally...

But yeah, animals are your friend. Stay back and sling/crossbow/whatever.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-23, 08:08 AM
Commoner has ranged attacks. Cat doesn't. Commoner has tactics. Cat doesn't. Commoner should have a faster speed, even if only marginally...

But yeah, animals are your friend. Stay back and sling/crossbow/whatever.

But said commoner must choose melee or range: you only get 1 proficiency. If you don't choose unarmed, grapples are even worst (some cats do actually grapple)

Tyndmyr
2009-10-23, 08:16 AM
Which would bring it up to 7 fights if the DM gives full XP for that. Since to gain XP also implies that your character was placed in danger, or at least it did in 2nd edition, and DMs sometimes dislike tricks to get XP with no threat to your character you might want to make sure with your DM. Otherwise... no idea on keeping a commoner alive I've never tried it.

Half xp is the official rules for duels with no risk of death.

I would suggest the following:
Riding Dogs.
Hiring others(amazingly cheap).
Heavy crossbow with tumbling bolts. Now granted, your odds of it connecting are less than awesome, but if you do, 1d10+2 dmg.

Omegonthesane
2009-10-23, 08:31 AM
This is incorrect. A Commoner 1 only has a CR of 1/2, not 1.

Doesn't that make them get XP faster from the same encounters?

Also, was the cat vs commoner statistically proven with the Nonelite Array, the base statline, or 4d6b3 as if the commoner was a PC?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-23, 08:33 AM
Presumably all of them. Rolling up a commoner isn't too hard.

Commoner 1 is CR .5, but ECL 1. So no dice on the XP gain. Each nonlethal duel would give half XP, so 75 xp/duel.

Zovc
2009-10-23, 09:18 AM
Is the 'Dragobold' going to become a Commoner 2?



...He is? Awesome!

Pika...
2009-10-23, 11:59 AM
Just buy a spell component pouch and flood the world with chickens. You know you want to. All the cool kids are doing it..

Yes...yes I do...

Weren't there some builds on this?



Anyway....sell chickens, buy alchemist fire. Repeat until you feel confident.

I would find that too cheese, and I know the DM would cap that.




Such as, chickens!
(Note that Tel does not support real-world cockfighting).

Sadly there are no stats for chickens. :smallfrown:




Is the 'Dragobold' going to become a Commoner 2?



...He is? Awesome!

I do not know. I was thinking rogue after that, or perhaps cleric to Vor: The Big Red Angry God.

However, I have heard of mythical, evil, despicable, Chicken Infested builds, so while I have so far refused to use a build I would this time around. :smallbiggrin:

Inhuman Bot
2009-10-23, 01:39 PM
However, I have heard of mythical, evil, despicable, Chicken Infested builds, so while I have so far refused to use a build I would this time around. :smallbiggrin:

Chicken infested build.

1) Take Chicken infested.
2) ????
3) Profit

Zovc
2009-10-23, 01:41 PM
Chicken infested build.

1) Take Chicken infested.
2) ????
3) Profit

Doesn't Quick Draw work with the Chicken Infested flaw? X3

Kylarra
2009-10-23, 01:42 PM
Go into survivor! You know you want to.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 01:58 PM
Doesn't Quick Draw work with the Chicken Infested flaw? X3

How?




Go into survivor! You know you want to.

What is that? A PrC?

Kylarra
2009-10-23, 02:02 PM
Yeah it's a prc with the dubious honor of being enterable easiest from commoner.

Telonius
2009-10-23, 02:06 PM
Sadly there are no stats for chickens. :smallfrown:


I'd use the stats for Raven, minus the ability to learn a language, and with Fly 20 Clumsy instead of 40 Average.

Myou
2009-10-23, 02:09 PM
Which is funny, considering that it's been proven that, statistically, a common domesticated cat (CR¼) has a better-than-even chance of killing a 1st-level Commoner.

Yeah, but cats are totally OP!

Starbuck_II
2009-10-23, 02:13 PM
How?





What is that? A PrC?

5 level Prc that a Commoner qualifies by 1st. Grants Uncanny dodge, evasion, and Improved versions, DR5 /-. Not bad. You have to have a level higher than your Base saves to get in (easy for Commoner as they have sucky saves).
In Savage Species pg 89.
The DR stacks with any other DR/- type (like Barbarian, Adamantine armor, etc).

Pika...
2009-10-23, 02:51 PM
5 level Prc that a Commoner qualifies by 1st. Grants Uncanny dodge, evasion, and Improved versions, DR5 /-. Not bad. You have to have a level higher than your Base saves to get in (easy for Commoner as they have sucky saves).
In Savage Species pg 89.
The DR stacks with any other DR/- type (like Barbarian, Adamantine armor, etc).

I just looked it up, and it turns out I had forgotten about it. This seems awesome.

However, I still have no shield, armor, weapons. :smallconfused:



ps. I was also thinking Dread Necromancer. Any thoughts?

Paulus
2009-10-23, 03:05 PM
If I ever played commoner I would definitely go Improved unarmed Strike, and then into Survivor from Savage Species. From there, sky is the limit!!!

Zovc
2009-10-23, 03:10 PM
I thought Chicken Infested has a 50% chance of giving you a chicken when you reach for an item? If so, doesn't Quick Draw let you draw (aka reach for) a weapon as a free action?

If so, just get multiple weapons you can try to quick draw--drop your chicken or weapon, whatever you draw as a free action, then try again! You can get roughly one chicken per weapon you try to draw.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 03:14 PM
If I ever played commoner I would definitely go Improved unarmed Strike, and then into Survivor from Savage Species. From there, sky is the limit!!!

Thank you!

I completely forgot he had his claws and bite attack.

Would he be considered proficient with those?


If so, hen I currently have his attacks/weapons, his atack dogs/animals/chickens to help keep him safe, and his next level/PrC (unless I perhaps go Dread Necromancer?). Now I need to figure out something to do with his two feats.

Also, at game start are the animals you own/bought count as already trained?

Pika...
2009-10-23, 03:15 PM
I thought Chicken Infested has a 50% chance of giving you a chicken when you reach for an item? If so, doesn't Quick Draw let you draw (aka reach for) a weapon as a free action?

If so, just get multiple weapons you can try to quick draw--drop your chicken or weapon, whatever you draw as a free action, then try again! You can get roughly one chicken per weapon you try to draw.

:smallbiggrin:

Mwahahahahaha!

Kylarra
2009-10-23, 03:17 PM
You're always proficient in natural weapons iirc.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 03:19 PM
You're always proficient in natural weapons iirc.

Many thanks!



ps. I think I know his fluff/goal now. To become the Chicken King, and to serve the Demon Lord of Chickens eternally as it's avatar on the prim material.

Zovc
2009-10-23, 03:22 PM
:smallbiggrin:

Mwahahahahaha!

Taking Quick Draw as one of your feats, then? :3

Paulus
2009-10-23, 03:29 PM
Thank you!

I completely forgot he had his claws and bite attack.

Would he be considered proficient with those?


If so, hen I currently have his attacks/weapons, his atack dogs/animals/chickens to help keep him safe, and his next level/PrC (unless I perhaps go Dread Necromancer?). Now I need to figure out something to do with his two feats.

Also, at game start are the animals you own/bought count as already trained?

EDITED MY EDIT BECAUSE IT TOOK SO LONG.
EDIT: bit of a cop out so I'll continue:

I'd take a quarter staff, a sling, and try my best at "hunting" for food. Your normal this and that's, rabbits, deer, and such until I ran across maybe a boar or wolf for an epic battle. I would probably be slaughtered unless I took initiative and build some trap or so.. like say a pit trap, and then lured to beasty into it. Rolls would be edge of the seat since they alone would decide my life or death for this. But if I succeed, I'll kill the animal in the pit and level up to my first survivor level! wheee! Continue on this course a bit until I get full Survivor, and only then, look into getting some proper gear and move on from there. Ring of sustenance and healing belt I suppose would be first. THEN. SKY IS THE LIMIT!!

Bahamut I'd love to play this!! LOVE IT!!


Your two feats for claws and bite should be improved natural attack, (claws) and possibly improved initiative. You must LIVE which meaning acting FIRST. so...

Somewhere
2009-10-23, 03:34 PM
ps. I think I know his fluff/goal now. To become the Chicken King, and to serve the Demon Lord of Chickens eternally as it's avatar on the prim material.

Check with your DM to see if he can houserule something about 666 chickens, and them melding to form El Pollo Diablo, or something.

Paulus
2009-10-23, 03:37 PM
Check with your DM to see if he can houserule something about 666 chickens, and them melding to form El Pollo Diablo, or something.

A P-P-P.... POULTRYGEIST!!

Pika...
2009-10-23, 03:56 PM
So I just finished the character's fluff:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/FluffofAnti-CannonFodderTheFutureCh.png






Taking Quick Draw as one of your feats, then? :3

I am thinking of it, or perhaps Skill Focus: (Handle Animal) to be able to Push chickens (DC 25 Hand Animal I believe) to use the attack skill.

Zaydos
2009-10-23, 04:00 PM
I now almost want to put a demon lord of chickens into a game... too bad my last game is over it would have fit right in.

Optimystik
2009-10-23, 04:16 PM
I'm definitely in favor of the selling NI chickens for NI alchemist fire idea.

hamishspence
2009-10-23, 04:19 PM
Pazuzu, as the Demon prince with power over all avians, is arguably the Demon Prince of Chickens, among other things (demon prince of insanely overpowered kobolds? :smallamused:)

Paulus
2009-10-23, 04:29 PM
Pazuzu, as the Demon prince with power over all avians, is arguably the Demon Prince of Chickens, among other things (demon prince of insanely overpowered kobolds? :smallamused:)

Closest living relative to the T-Rex? ...chickens.
Seriously.

hamishspence
2009-10-23, 04:30 PM
Among several thousand other avian species- they are all as "close" as each other, to it.

Though closer, it is true, than anything else is.

For a "Demon Prince of Dinosaurs" the closest is maybe Demogorgon- who has a strong association with dinosaurs, apes, and other things.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 09:11 PM
So the DM just sent me this character's stats:
16(+3) 8(-1) 9(-1) 11(0) 8(-1) 15(+2)


Where do you think I should allocate them? I have no idea for such an out there character.


ps. I am still considering Dread Necromancer. Would it even be worth it starting at level 7 (1 level commoner + 5 levels Survivor = ECL 6)?

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-23, 09:12 PM
So the DM just sent me this character's stats:
16(+3) 8(-1) 9(-1) 11(0) 8(-1) 15(+2)


Where do you think I should allocate them? I have no idea for such an out there character.


ps. I am still considering Dread Necromancer. Would it even be worth it starting at level 7 (1 level commoner + 5 levels Survivor = ECL 6)?

given the sheer fury people round here react with to the idea of losing a single caster level, I'm guessing losing 6 of them is right out. ;)

Pika...
2009-10-23, 09:23 PM
given the sheer fury people round here react with to the idea of losing a single caster level, I'm guessing losing 6 of them is right out. ;)

Eh, good point.

taltamir
2009-10-23, 09:35 PM
Commoner has ranged attacks. Cat doesn't. Commoner has tactics. Cat doesn't. Commoner should have a faster speed, even if only marginally...

But yeah, animals are your friend. Stay back and sling/crossbow/whatever.

you outrun cats? they are pretty fast.

To OP: I say if you wanna survive level 1... get some friends as backup, set up an arena, breed some giant rats... fight them until you ding. If things go south, your friends can all jump to your rescue.


given the sheer fury people round here react with to the idea of losing a single caster level, I'm guessing losing 6 of them is right out. ;)

To be fair, look at the spells... level 1 sleep? HD4+ immune to it... spell level 2? 6HD+ are immune... direct damage is out of the question, and other spells are equally as ineffective... losing 6 levels of caster means you are a pathetically sad caster against level appropriate opponents.

sofawall
2009-10-23, 09:36 PM
given the sheer fury people round here react with to the idea of losing a single caster level, I'm guessing losing 6 of them is right out. ;)

War Weaver. Recaster. Walker in the Waste.

It has to be worth it, really. Losing 9th level spells is almost never worth it, however, so 6 will hurt.

Pika...
2009-10-23, 09:57 PM
Well, I want it more for an army of evil chickens, though.

Flickerdart
2009-10-23, 10:03 PM
What you want is a Spell Component Pouch. Drawing a component from it is a free action, dropping it is a free action. It never runs dry. Half the time, chickens come out.
Alternately, Gnomish Quickrazor: free action to draw and sheathe. Go into Factotum after your Survivor levels and abuse Iaijutsu Focus.
Might want to take a look at one of the psionics threads that recently popped up. You can learn high-level Ardent powers with only two levels in the class, so long as your Manifester Level is good enough. Psychic Chirurgery also makes this work, but it's expensive. You'll need Body Fuel or something to get power points though. Is there something in the splats that lets you force others to take ability damage for you? You could make a sweet chicken-fueled master of the mind, burning them dry for power points. Or enter that PrC that lets you drain PP from people trapped in cocoons, and stick chickens into there.

sofawall
2009-10-23, 10:10 PM
Alternately, Gnomish Quickrazor: free action to draw and sheathe.

Why do people keep getting this wrong?

It's only a free action if you attack.

Flickerdart
2009-10-23, 10:27 PM
Why do people keep getting this wrong?

It's only a free action if you attack.
There's a billion ways to get infinite attacks, too. Just attack a chicken.

sofawall
2009-10-23, 10:30 PM
There's a billion ways to get infinite attacks, too. Just attack a chicken.

Let's see, assume 6 attacks:

Attack1 Ground: Chicken1!
Attack2 Chicken1: Chicken2!
Attack3 Chicken1: Cleave!
Attack3 Chicken2: Chicken3!
Attack4 Chicken3: Kill! nothing to cleave...
Attack5 Ground: Chicken4!
Attack6 Chicken4: Kill! nothing to cleave...

Well that didn't really work...

Flickerdart
2009-10-23, 10:44 PM
Meh, the component pouch is better for this anyway. Cheaper.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-10-24, 12:39 AM
We did a "d20 commoner" in which we all had 5 level 1 commoners and were trying to overthrow the cruel baron who owned the land we slaved over. In the end, we lost many good men and women in the fight for freedom, but the ones who did the best used slings.