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Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-23, 06:13 PM
I was thinking of having the peasants that the PCs are helping in my game rise up and march on the evil baron that the PCs are trying to defeat.

Some background:
The PC party in a game I am running have been helping out some oppressed peasants by fighting the evil baron's minions.
This has culminated in the PCs killing and otherwise driving off a host of baron's guards (who were threatening to burn a village if the PCs weren't given up and certain hostages returned), the PCs setting up a limited training program to arm the peasants - and, lastly, with the PCs sneaking into the baron's castle and fighting a whole lot of his guards.

All in line with the plot I had planned, and a good spectacular point to leave the game while I go away for three month's training out of town.

However... the escapade with the baron's castle didn't go well.
Two of the six-member party were killed outright, and two of the party were carrying the unconscious forms of the other two as they fled into the night.

I only have two sessions left to wrap up this story arc before I have to stop for three months.

My rationale for the peasants rising up to march on the baron is that the PCs have "shown the way" and that their sacrifice for freedom has inspired enough of them to attack.
It isn't too far a stretch of the imagination to say that the peasant settlements have communicated with each other, and in the few days of action, rumour of the PCs' deed has spread.
Also, the baron is rather weakened by the loss of a couple of dozen guards and goblin mercenaries - so this is a good time to strike.

While this is happening, I hope for the PCs to go along with the march and help the peasants get into the castle by using their PC awesomeness.

So: Is this railroading? Is it taking the glory away from the PCs? How would you feel if you were player in this game?

(PCs are around 4th and 5th level now. Peasants are generally 1st and 2nd level Commoners. There are about 50 guards in the baron's force, plus his wizard. There are about 200 peasants available to march. PCs are among the highest level friendlies in the immediate region.)

Runeclaw
2009-10-23, 06:15 PM
If you do it right, it could be kinda cool. Just be sure that mooks are fighting mooks offstage while the PCs go up against the big bads.

KillianHawkeye
2009-10-23, 06:19 PM
Have the village leaders approach the PCs and say "Hey, we've all seen what you've been doing. We've talked it over, and we're willing to storm the Baron's castle if you're willing to lead us."

Then while the peasants are attacking the guards 4-to-1, the PCs can take out the Baron and his wizard.

Just make sure the peasants are leaving the decisions and the planning up the the PCs (since they're the ones who've done everything up until now), and it shouldn't seem like railroading. And it could actually be quite awesome!

Thajocoth
2009-10-23, 06:20 PM
I was thinking of having the peasants that the PCs are helping in my game rise up and march on the evil baron that the PCs are trying to defeat.

Some background:
The PC party in a game I am running have been helping out some oppressed peasants by fighting the evil baron's minions.
This has culminated in the PCs killing and otherwise driving off a host of baron's guards (who were threatening to burn a village if the PCs weren't given up and certain hostages returned), the PCs setting up a limited training program to arm the peasants - and, lastly, with the PCs sneaking into the baron's castle and fighting a whole lot of his guards.

All in line with the plot I had planned, and a good spectacular point to leave the game while I go away for three month's training out of town.

However... the escapade with the baron's castle didn't go well.
Two of the six-member party were killed outright, and two of the party were carrying the unconscious forms of the other two as they fled into the night.

I only have two sessions left to wrap up this story arc before I have to stop for three months.

My rationale for the peasants rising up to march on the baron is that the PCs have "shown the way" and that their sacrifice for freedom has inspired enough of them to attack.
It isn't too far a stretch of the imagination to say that the peasant settlements have communicated with each other, and in the few days of action, rumour of the PCs' deed has spread.
Also, the baron is rather weakened by the loss of a couple of dozen guards and goblin mercenaries - so this is a good time to strike.

While this is happening, I hope for the PCs to go along with the march and help the peasants get into the castle by using their PC awesomeness.

So: Is this railroading? Is it taking the glory away from the PCs? How would you feel if you were player in this game?

(PCs are around 4th and 5th level now. Peasants are generally 1st and 2nd level Commoners. There are about 50 guards in the baron's force, plus his wizard. There are about 200 peasants available to march. PCs are among the highest level friendlies in the immediate region.)

I use groups of unarmed/mildly armed civilians/slaves/villagers all the time in my campaigns. I play them as a swarm or swarms of humanoids. The PCs fight alongside them, but have a bigger impact on the battle because I've reduced the quantity of NPC units without reducing the quantity of NPC people. My players not only don't seem to mind, but will usually go out of their way to free them if they see an imprisoned group of people in battle.

I'm playing 4e though. I don't know how swarms work in older editions, so I don't know if my advice is helpful or not...

ericgrau
2009-10-23, 07:43 PM
The sheer number of commoners is enough to overwhelm the strength of the PCs. But the PCs are still enough to make a dramatic impact on the ensuing battle. Sounds awesome to me, as long as no individual is stronger than the PCs and as long as you have a way to handle the bookkeeping of so many combatants.

At most I'd include 10 warriors, all level 1 except perhaps for a level 3 captain. At most. They could all be commoners.

drengnikrafe
2009-10-23, 07:45 PM
This is one of those situations...

If you play this right, it will go over very well.
If you play it wrong, it will go very poorly.

Needless to say, a lot hinges on how you can make your PCs feel while they're doing this. First of all, don't roll individually for all of the NPCs. That should be a given. I like the swarms idea, but if you don't, you can roll them in groups. Second, make sure that the NPCs are at least marginally weaker than the Baron's guards, if you're going to have a battle between all of them before, and get to the Baron later. If you're willing to have the Baron be part of the fray, you may want to, as suggested, leave the guards and the NPCs alone, and have the PCs fight the Baron, if he's strong enough to take it.

Things you don't want to do: Have the NPCs fight the guards alone, and have the PCs storm the now-empty castle. That will cheapen the deaths of the peasents, and seem like a cop-out. Also, don't completely overshadow the PCs with the commoners (That is to say, if the PCs weren't in the battle, the commoners should lose it, but since they are... they may be able to tip the scales). The point here is... you want your PCs to feel important, and letting them tip a large-scale final battle is good.

As for complaints... I have none. Giving them allies based on what they've done is good, it adds depth to the world, and realism to the peasents.

Finally, are you railroading? Yes, a little bit. But you're right next to the end of a campaign, so it's somewhat justified. As KillianHawkeye said: don't force them into it, give them the option. If they truly don't want to fight the Baron, then the inspirerers of the peasents has backed down, and so will they. Give them the option, and they should take it.

JonestheSpy
2009-10-23, 08:54 PM
Sounds like fun, and hey, it can be a cool surprise - you know, cavalry arriving at opportune moments can be awesome even if it's one of the oldest tropes in the book. Just make sure you've got large-scale combat rules of some sort to work with.

Oh, and this brings up a personal pet peeve. 3.x rules have commoners as way too wimpy. Maybe a malnourished beaten down serf would only have 1-4 hit points to start with, but a hard-working ploughman is going to have some stamina and some strength. They should have at least 1-6 hit points per level, and a sizable percentage should have at least a +1 str or con bonus.

imperialspectre
2009-10-24, 12:09 PM
Off of the previous post, give the human "commoners" humanoid HD instead of commoner levels. It will work better in every way.

Gamerlord
2009-10-24, 12:12 PM
Have an all-out battle begin, expect massive commoner casualties.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-24, 04:55 PM
Unsatisfactory? Sounds like just the thing I'd need to cheer me up after two player deaths. All the planning we had done as a contingency to this direct raid paid off. If you mishandle this, it could feel like a cop-out; but since you have at least a modicum of concern for the players' happiness it ought to work out well.

EDIT: Heck, it's even a great chance to add in the replacement characters, as relatively powerful guys that were laying low amongst the peasantry. Have them courier the message trumpeting the party's glory and join them for the main assault.

Roderick_BR
2009-10-24, 08:56 PM
Maybe have the peasant's leaders approach the PCs, asking to accompany them. It may make them feel like leaders of their own small army, and I bet some people would actually enjoy it for once. But, yeah, as was said, let them hold off the BBeG's mooks, while the PCs do the big stuff.

jiriku
2009-10-24, 09:25 PM
The fallen shall be celebrated as martyrs! Do it. Coolness shall result.

minchazo
2009-10-24, 09:34 PM
My bet is that they will either cheer on as the jerks that killed them earlier are murdered by peasants, or feel cheated that they didn't get to land the killing blow.

BUT, if the PCs get to order the peasants around and decide the strategy for the battle, I can't see this going wrong. If the PCs want to kill guardsmen, they can have the peasants distract/wear down the BBEG. If they want to storm the throne room first off, they can order the peasants to hold off the guards while they storm the throne room. Besides, then you don't have to plan what the commoners do :)

ericgrau
2009-10-24, 09:51 PM
Oh, and this brings up a personal pet peeve. 3.x rules have commoners as way too wimpy. Maybe a malnourished beaten down serf would only have 1-4 hit points to start with, but a hard-working ploughman is going to have some stamina and some strength. They should have at least 1-6 hit points per level, and a sizable percentage should have at least a +1 str or con bonus.
Perhaps in general, but in this case the issue is making sure the army of commoners doesn't outshine the PCs. I could see this as a good house rule but not something to add just for this specific fight.

gdiddy
2009-10-25, 01:12 AM
Heroes of Battle is your friend.

How I would run it? Two other adventurers (dead PC players), hearing the hub-bub get into town and offer their help.

Leaders offer to attack immediately, before a defense can be raised.

Have the PCs do trojan horse commando stuff like opening the gate and letting the horses out of the stables. Oh, your armored knights? Now they can fight on foot. As they're fighting and doing well, have them see commoners scream the names of the matyrs as they overwhelm the Baron's defenses. Benjamin Peasant McPeasantson, the impressionable young blacksmith that "wants to be a hero someday", takes a halberd to the face. PC that was just getting to know and love him: BEN! NOOOOOOOO!

The Baron, seeing everything lost, tries to use his wizard to get the hell out of there with his treasury. PCs have to stop the teleportation ritual from sending away the gold and treasure of the Baron. (They then have the option to keep it or give it to the peasants. Charity = major XP bonus.)

Que Baron/Wizard boss fight. Heroes win, or if they start losing, enter 20-man peasant swarm.

Hire Ewok band. Chub chub.

I honestly think I'd railroad them more than you would.

Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-25, 06:00 AM
Glad to see there's so much support. I'll be darn careful not to steal the thunder of the PCs, don't worry.

I'm going to use the old War Machine rules from the D&D Companion Set (3.5 conversion here (http://www.pandius.com/warmach3.html)) for the mass combat. They include a proviso that no matter what happens, named NPCs and PCs cannot be killed by the mass combat, only by direct confrontation.

Should be fun.

Prak
2009-10-25, 03:28 PM
Have the village leaders approach the PCs and say "Hey, we've all seen what you've been doing. We've talked it over, and we're willing to storm the Baron's castle if you're willing to lead us."

Then while the peasants are attacking the guards 4-to-1, the PCs can take out the Baron and his wizard.

Just make sure the peasants are leaving the decisions and the planning up the the PCs (since they're the ones who've done everything up until now), and it shouldn't seem like railroading. And it could actually be quite awesome!

this would be one of the few times I'd encourage background music. There're lots of great Angry Mob songs that could make the scene better. If the party has a bard, it could be perfect.

I'd recommend Stakes and Torches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQGCspp6g8w)

Asheram
2009-10-25, 03:48 PM
As always, railroading is quite fun, as long as the characters doesn't realise that they're railroaded.

ondonaflash
2009-10-25, 04:11 PM
this would be one of the few times I'd encourage background music. There're lots of great Angry Mob songs that could make the scene better. If the party has a bard, it could be perfect.

I'd recommend Stakes and Torches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQGCspp6g8w)

Or This! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=917Q8dbpRLE&feature=related) Also, has anyone ever tried to run an adventure Samurai Warriors style? Its seems like it would work pretty well.