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Fortinbras
2009-10-24, 10:11 PM
I'm trying to make a character who specializes in fighting on the decks of ships and also fighting from horseback. I want this character to be like a Classical hero.

I'm looking for build advice. Race is human, strength is 17, Dex is 17, Con is 16, Int is 15, Wis is
7, and Cha is 14.

I want to use a spear-like polearm. Idealy it would combine throwing capabilities with being able to be used as a lance from horseback.

Sourcebooks include complete warrior, complete divine, races of stone, races of the wild, complete scoundrel, book of exhalted deeds, heroes of battle, tome of battle, complete adventurer, and stormwrack.

Elfin
2009-10-24, 11:16 PM
Odysseus.
For the love of the gods, Odysseus.

Assuming this is D&D 3.5-
A classical hero would probably be wearing breastplate, so snag some mithral breastplate of nimbleness (SpC, +1 enhancement, -2 check penalty & +1 max dex). You'll want a lance if you intend to focus on mounted combat; otherwise, you should do fine with a halberd or longspear.

As for classes, maybe grab a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for pounce; even though it doesn't quite fit the classical hero I'd recommend some martial adept classes. Maybe a couple levels of both Crusader and Warblade.
It might also be worth it to take a dip in fighter for the bonus feats.
If you're serious about throwing, then you also want to consider heading for Bloodstorm Blade.

Feats - if you're doing mounted combat, then take Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, and their ilk. Since you'll be using a reach weapon it would be a good idea to get Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip.
Power Attack is a must, and to make full use of it you need Shock Trooper; Leap Attack, Combat Brute, and Battle Jump are just icing on the cake.
For more Power Attack advice, try PersonMan's excellent guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087).
His Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) is very helpful, too.

awa
2009-10-25, 12:29 AM
i would point out that technically classical Greek heroes typically fought from chariot not horse back. the ancient Greek didn't have good horse and they lacked stirrups which make lance fighting the monster it would latter become.
personally i would ask my dm if i could use a trident and call it a spear which would allow you to use a shield as well and you can throw it. (i know pepole don't like sword and board characters on this board but shields were often used by the classical heroes becuase in real life they were very useful)

Also Ulysses is the Latin version and if i recall correctly popular culture waffles back and forth between the Latin and Greek pronunciations on various characters any way

paddyfool
2009-10-25, 03:28 AM
Hm. If I were to assign classes etc. to specific Greek heroes:

- Achilles: Barbarian, or maybe Warblade (if blade magic is allowed). CN, hits stuff really hard, and possibly some homebrewed LA+1 template (Styx-touched) giving him something like DR 20/crits (called shot would be better, but that's really not part of the usual 3.5 ruleset) and maybe another physical stat-boosting one for his divine heritage. Plus fortified armour to be really unfair. I'd suggest a divine rank of 0, but I think that requires 20 outsider hit dice or something (not too hot on the divine rules).

- Odysseus: Factotum. Seriously - he's go the whole "outthink your opponent" thing down. Alternatively, could be done as a Rogue. Lots of mobility and personality skills, and possibly a dip in Warblade or Swashbuckler for a little extra oomph. N, CN or CG depending on flavour.

- Ajax, Agamemnon etc.: Fighter, Barb, or Fighter/Barb fit pretty well. Mostly LN or N.

- Menelaus: Probably just an Aristocrat. N.

- Jason: Let's see... quest from the gods and leadership suggests Paladin (at least to level 3), but less than moral methods in Colchis kind of count against this. Maybe just (martial class of choice) with decent charisma. EDIT: not sure about alignment here.

On the whole, low magic variants for Pallys and Rangers would fit pretty well, and banning all casters except maybe Bards (banning PRCs that boost casting) and one or two others of similar casting capacity (some kind of homebrewed "seer" class to get divination spells would also fit). Also, you may find this thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4558.0) useful.

EDIT: Some more.

- Hector: LG, either Paladin, Knight, or Fighter would work, or maybe Crusader (once again, I don't know how that system works).

- Paris: Rogue, CN.

- Pyrrhus: Barbarian, maybe with Frenzied Berserker. CE.

awa
2009-10-25, 11:45 AM
First i would mention that i don't think that hes trying to actually play a specific Greek hero and i would definitively suggest not following their moral code unless you want to be evil. The ancient Greek values are not western values as we know them today

I would also quibble that in the book Menelaus was a highly skilled warrior and the great grandson of a god (to the best of my knowledge very named charecter in the illied had divine blood in them somewhere)

Aldizog
2009-10-25, 12:18 PM
Wis 7 is not Crafty Odysseus. I'd say he's got both Int and Wis in the 15+ range. His only flaw is a bit of hubris, but that's pretty universal among Greek heroes, and Odysseus is one of the few who gets away with it.

And if you have to use the barbarian class for a Greek hero, rename it and refluff it. Simply doesn't fit when you are playing one of the people who invented the word "barbarian" to mean "people other than us."

Serpentine
2009-10-25, 12:25 PM
the ancient Greek didn't have good horse and they lacked stirrups which make lance fighting the monster it would latter become.The first thing stirrups were good for was archery. Horseback archery was impossible without it, and it was one of the things that made... the Persians and/or Mongolians to impressive.

As an aside: Ajax was frigging hardcore.

On topic... I dunno. Are there any feats or whatever for being descended from a god?


Also: VOTE
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VlV V V

The Glyphstone
2009-10-25, 12:54 PM
There is an actual God-Blooded template in one of the last Monster Manuals. It's horrible though, and I think it goes away once you use its abilities too many times.

Carden
2009-10-25, 02:59 PM
And if you have to use the barbarian class for a Greek hero, rename it and refluff it. Simply doesn't fit when you are playing one of the people who invented the word "barbarian" to mean "people other than us."

Actually, you'd just need a beard if you wanted to be a true barbarian, seeing as it was originally meaning anyone at all with a beard. Thus why it shares the same root word as barber.

Remember, kiddos, the best test of a civilization's culture level is if they shave!

...

Dirty Dwarfs...

Edit: On further review, wouldn't Legendary Captain fit perfectly with a Jason character? Most of his heroic value was having a crew that included such demigods as Hercules, Castor, and Pollux, not to mention the other heroes/heroine on board.

Aldizog
2009-10-25, 03:12 PM
Actually, you'd just need a beard if you wanted to be a true barbarian, seeing as it was originally meaning anyone at all with a beard. Thus why it shares the same root word as barber.

I had learned that it was based on non-Greek languages sounding like "Bar bar bar" to Greek ears (like "blah blah blah"). "Barbarian" mean "people who talked like 'bar bar bar'," i.e. non-Greeks.

And I had understood that beards were nearly universal in Classical Greece until Alexander's time, so it wouldn't make sense to use "barbarian" to mean "bearded one." Beards went out of favor with Alexander, and came back under Hadrian.

MickJay
2009-10-25, 03:16 PM
Odysseus' primary combat skill was archery, let's not forget that (second best archer in the Greek camp right after Philoktetes), though he was good with spears as well (both throwing and wielding).

"Barbar" stem is generally associated with onomatopeia for what "barbarians'" speech sounded like to Greeks and Romans, while "barber" would come from "barba", beard. On the other hand, Greeks just loved beards, and were (at least initially) a bit contemptuous of clean-shaven foreigners (beard was a visible sign of masculinity and adulthood). :smallwink:

One could argue that low Wisdom is the reason for his hubris. Odysseus is clever, quick-thinking, perhaps even ingenious - but that is all related to intelligence. Actual Wisdom could well be average/mediocre (though score of 7 is probably too low anyway; maybe 11?).

Carden
2009-10-25, 03:19 PM
I had learned that it was based on non-Greek languages sounding like "Bar bar bar" to Greek ears (like "blah blah blah"). "Barbarian" mean "people who talked like 'bar bar bar'," i.e. non-Greeks.

And I had understood that beards were nearly universal in Classical Greece until Alexander's time, so it wouldn't make sense to use "barbarian" to mean "bearded one." Beards went out of favor with Alexander, and came back under Hadrian.

Ah, sorry 'bout that, I was thinking Latin instead of Greek. Didn't drag the root back far enough, I suppose.