View Full Version : Is Vaarsuvius in SoD? [SoD spoilers]
On page 21 of Start of Darkness, Eugene is talking to Roy, explaining the Greenhilt family Blood Oath of Vengeance. In the second panel of pg. 21 there is a group of people in Master Fyron's study.
Among them is an elf wearing a cape, with shoulder length hair, and a circlet. Admittedly, the artwork is in black and white, so it's darn near impossible to tell, but is it just a cigar, or is it V?
Kaytara
2009-10-25, 10:28 AM
If it isn't V, it's someone who looks exactly like he does from behind and in black and white.
For our purposes, I think we can safely assume that it's V.
Uncle Festy
2009-10-25, 12:35 PM
Yeah.
And considering that we know a new book is coming, it has V on the cover, and Rich usually comes out with prequel books around when a book has ended (ie, now)… I think we're going to find out a LOT more about that, very soon… :smallamused:
...Prequel books?
Ten gold says the book being announced tomorrow will be the next strip compilation, not a prequel book. (I'll throw in "named something other than V for Vaarsuvius," so you win the bet if it's a prequel or if it's a compilation named V for Vaarsuvius.)
Totally Guy
2009-10-25, 01:39 PM
Yes. That's V helping Lirian at the scrying pool before Redcloak's initial assault.:smalltongue:
Kaytara
2009-10-25, 02:23 PM
...Prequel books?
Ten gold says the book being announced tomorrow will be the next strip compilation, not a prequel book. (I'll throw in "named something other than V for Vaarsuvius," so you win the bet if it's a prequel or if it's a compilation named V for Vaarsuvius.)
I think what he meant is that Rich might publish a Prequel book as a bonus to the finished fourth book.
If that happens, I doubt we'll see V's backstory in there, though. The backstories of the Order have already been done and Rich has given reasons for the ones that didn't answer our questions. If we find out more about V, it will be in the main comic.
derfenrirwolv
2009-10-25, 02:28 PM
Yes. That's V helping Lirian at the scrying pool before Redcloak's initial assault.
If it was, i'd think he'd* know more of the gate than he does.
Optimystik
2009-10-25, 03:02 PM
Prequel books we really need:
Linear Guild
Order of the Scribble
The Rise of Miko Miyazaki
The Marvellous Misadventures of Solt Lorkyurg, Gnomish Peddler
(On topic, I don't think that's V in SoD but I could be wrong.)
Elfin
2009-10-25, 03:36 PM
Cool, hadn't noticed that.
BatRobin
2009-10-25, 03:52 PM
The Marvellous Misadventures of Solt Lorkyurg, Gnomish Peddler
GNOME-VENTURE!
By the way, while you have SoD out: Did anyone else notice that Redcloak's mother doesn't have three toed goblin feet? She has the same feet as humans, elves, etc. Again, in your opinion, just a cigar, or does Redcloak have non-goblinoid ancestry?
Smiling Knight
2009-10-25, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
The Marvellous Misadventures of Solt Lorkyurg, Gnomish Peddler
GNOME-VENTURE!
And you can't have a proper gnome-venture without TURNIPS!
CrimsonAngel
2009-10-25, 06:38 PM
When I asked this everyone yelled at me...
When I asked this everyone yelled at me...
Forum-wide bad day? That seems to happen every now and then.
The Extinguisher
2009-10-25, 08:56 PM
When I asked this everyone yelled at me...
That's nothing. I've seen some get yelled at for a suggestion once (on a different forum) and then on the very next page of thread, someone else suggested the exact same thing, and everyone was all "that's a great idea!"
Berserk Monk
2009-10-25, 11:32 PM
If it was, i'd think he'd* know more of the gate than he does.
:mitd: "Gate? What gate?"
On page 21 of Start of Darkness, Eugene is talking to Roy, explaining the Greenhilt family Blood Oath of Vengeance. In the second panel of pg. 21 there is a group of people in Master Fyron's study.
Among them is an elf wearing a cape, with shoulder length hair, and a circlet. Admittedly, the artwork is in black and white, so it's darn near impossible to tell, but is it just a cigar, or is it V?
I don't think that it could be V. From what I believe, I think that V was still studying magic in seclusion with her master Aarandarius.
If you take a look at the [Un]Official timeline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35936):
1143 One Wednesday in the Spring, Xykon tries to steal a "Badass" looking crown from Fyron Pucebuckle
But:
~1097 Vaarsuvius is formally apprenticed to Aarindarius
~1147 Aarandarius, concerned that his student is becoming isolated from the world, abruptly ends Vaarsuvius apprenticeship, who he sends out into the world (read: evicts).
So basically, V was studying magic in during the time (1097-1147) when Fyron's crown was stolen (1143).
And the Giant pretty much made the timeline cannon by noting where it was incorrect.
Nimrod's Son
2009-10-26, 04:55 AM
Most of those dates are only approximations. We don't know exactly what year V was born, when he took up his apprenticeship (only that it happened before he turned nineteen) or when he was kicked out of the tower (Origin states he studied with Aarindarius for sixty years, but that's a nice round number that could easily have been rounded up or down). I'd say the dates could easily be fudged so that V could have been present in Fyron's museum that day.
We'll never know for sure, but the character designs are so similar (and the setting is relevant enough) that it's pretty likely that Rich was doing it deliberately, as an "easter egg" for observant fans. I mean, V has a very distinctive haircut, and when that's combined with the thin headband, the cloak and the pointy elf ears, Rich could hardly have drawn that character without thinking, "Whoops, that looks exactly like Vaarsuvius!". And since we know how Rich reacts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127453) to baseless speculation about background characters, I really can't imagine he'd draw a random NPC to be indistinguishable from one of the main characters in the strip.
Jan Mattys
2009-10-26, 05:18 AM
And since we know how Rich reacts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127453) to baseless speculation about background characters...
Mmm
I read that thread, and I noticed that Rich's avatar has a ponytail...
I think there's room for some wild speculations about him being a relative to Haley!!!
:smallbiggrin:
ps: just to stay somewhat on topic, though, I think it's Vaarsuvius in SoD. And I also think it's just a little nice gem Rich gave us, and nothing worth plot points.
Anonymouswizard
2009-10-26, 05:28 AM
:mitd: "Gate? What gate?"
:xykon:"Oh, for the love of-LOOK!"
Optimystik
2009-10-26, 07:28 AM
I don't think that it could be V. From what I believe, I think that V was still studying magic in seclusion with her master Aarandarius.
That's the main reason I think it's not V. However, a tour of another wizard's tower might be a feasible break from studies for an apprentice wizard, especially if his master makes him go in his stead.
ChrisFortyTwo
2009-10-26, 09:40 AM
That's the main reason I think it's not V. However, a tour of another wizard's tower might be a feasible break from studies for an apprentice wizard, especially if his master makes him go in his stead.
I would imagine that most high-level wizards would know (of) each other. It would be perfectly reasonable for A to send V to Fyron's study to examine / study / research something.
(I hate trying to spell the elven names)
Berserk Monk
2009-10-30, 03:52 PM
:xykon:"Oh, for the love of-LOOK!"
:mitd: "Huh. I never noticed that before. Now anyway, back to this gate I hear so much about..."
Aaron
2009-10-30, 03:58 PM
:mitd: "Huh. I never noticed that before. Now anyway, back to this gate I hear so much about..."
:xykon:*sigh*
As Rich has pointed out, there's only so many different hair combinations you can make with stick figures.
But even if it was V ... would it actually matter?
FabuVinny
2009-10-31, 02:10 PM
The woman with the group attacked by the slavers is similar to Haley but far from a clone. This visitor to Fyron, on the other hand, looks an awful lot like V (albeit in black and white and from behind). It's plausible too, which we couldn't say if this character design was used in the adventurer's bar.
Does it matter if it is V? Probably not - we are likely already past the point where V could provide any plot revelations regarding the crown. The most we could get from our elven wizards is some possible insight into Fyron's mystery son.
So, if it is V, it's probably just a little cameo. Simply a neat thing to spot.
Nimrod's Son
2009-11-01, 12:20 AM
As Rich has pointed out, there's only so many different hair combinations you can make with stick figures.
You're missing the point. When he said that, he was talking about a girl who had a similar (but not identical) hairstyle to Haley, yet had different clothes and skin tone. Nothing to suggest a connection.
On the other hand, this "random NPC" from SoD is drawn EXACTLY the same way that Vaarsuvius would have been if that scene had happened to be about V rather than just having him appear in the background.
For reference, here's what V looks like from behind. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0483.html) It's so close to the character in SoD that he could easily be a zoomed-out, greyscale copy of the same image. Right down to little details like how one side of his parting is slightly higher than the other, and one of his ears sticks out a little more. If it isn't Vaarsuvius, then Rich has gone to extraordinary lengths to make people think it is... which we know isn't really his style. :smallwink:
Berserk Monk
2009-11-01, 04:30 AM
Hard to say. When did V's master kick him/her out of his/hers tower? I don't think the timing works.
Kaytara
2009-11-01, 06:46 AM
We don't know V's real age. His character sheet in Paladin Blues has "130?", his application in Origins shows 103. Rich commented with something along the likes of "What, you've never met anyone who's lied about their age?"
At the time of Fyron's death, V should have been still in his teens, about 70-60, if we assume he's 130, and still pre-pubescent if he's 103. While the "field trip" explanations are possible, I doubt Vaarsuvius the teenage apprentice would look so identical to adult Vaarsuvius the fully fledged mage, both in terms of body build and outfit design.
I also doubt Rich would throw in a cameo appearance of a main character in a prequel without checking for consistency problems first.
The whole thing is very suspicious.
Ninja
2009-11-01, 08:05 AM
It's obviously one of his evil triplets, except you can't see the goatee from behind. And the fact he was younger at that time is accounted for by the fact he traveled through time. Seriously, do I need to tell you guys everything around here?
FujinAkari
2009-11-01, 01:45 PM
At the time of Fyron's death, V should have been still in his teens, about 70-60, if we assume he's 130, and still pre-pubescent if he's 103. While the "field trip" explanations are possible, I doubt Vaarsuvius the teenage apprentice would look so identical to adult Vaarsuvius the fully fledged mage, both in terms of body build and outfit design.
All the other OOTS look the exact same in Origins, even though some of them are in their teens at the time.
I also doubt Rich would throw in a cameo appearance of a main character in a prequel without checking for consistency problems first.
There are no consistency problems. We know A thought V wasn't getting out enough and so sent him out into the world around this time... if later, then that certainly doesn't mean V was -never ever- leaving, just that he was growing to disdain the outside world. If before, it explains it even better.
Kaytara
2009-11-01, 02:13 PM
All the other OOTS look the exact same in Origins, even though some of them are in their teens at the time.
Bwuh? Who are you talking about? :smallconfused:
I'm not talking about outfit changes with the passing of time. I'm talking about the sort of outfit change one would get upon graduating from apprentice to mage. The fancy cloak and headband, for example, just seem to scream "official wizard" to me. In Origins, apprentice V is just wearing simple baggy robes.
There are no consistency problems. We know A thought V wasn't getting out enough and so sent him out into the world around this time... if later, then that certainly doesn't mean V was -never ever- leaving, just that he was growing to disdain the outside world. If before, it explains it even better.
Doesn't change the fact that something is up about V's age. We have the inconsistencies in the books and Rich's cryptic statement.
As I said, the field trip explanation IS possible, but I think it just... I don't know, stretches things. Cliffport and the human lands are on another continent, several thousand miles away. And V doesn't seem to be accompanied by anyone in SoD. And he's supposed to be still a teenager at that age and cannot even cast 1st level spells yet. That's some field trip, and with no apparent reason. Visiting accomplished mages seems like the thing to do when you have at least some grasp of the fundamentals of magic yourself. On the other hand, visiting accomplished mages seems exactly like the thing V would have done after he had already finished his apprenticeship and left for the human lands to master the ways of magic.
In short, "field trip" is possible, but it seems to go against what (admittedly little) we know of V's past.
Berserk Monk
2009-11-02, 12:56 AM
V's not. The timing doesn't work out. Panel one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)
Katana_Geldar
2009-11-02, 02:35 AM
How so? V was training back then and this was probably before he was married to Kyrie and they adopted the kids, whom are aged twenty six (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html). V has been with Kyrie and the kids for twenty of those twenty six years.
If Kyrie and V have been married for at least twenty six years (may be more) then this makes sense. I was under the impression that the crown was stolen about thirty years before Eugene told Roy. In addition, seven years passed between when Eugene told Roy and the forming of the Order of the Stick. So when V met Roy, he had already left his family.
Rich shows us the possibility that V could have been there, but why did V not mention it?
Berserk Monk
2009-11-02, 02:41 AM
How so? V was training back then and this was probably before he was married to Kyrie and they adopted the kids, whom are aged twenty six (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html).
V was training away in his/hers masters tower cut off from the rest of the world.
Skeppio
2009-11-02, 02:42 AM
GNOME-VENTURE!
New Book: Gnome Alone
Berserk Monk
2009-11-02, 02:52 AM
New Book: Gnome Alone
If your gonna make ridiculous suggestions for the next book, at least make it an Alan Moore reference like I did.
Nimrod's Son
2009-11-02, 02:54 AM
Rich shows us the possibility that V could have been there, but why did V not mention it?
V probably didn't know anything about it. Fyron's murder happened as he and Eugene were about to dine after the museum was closed. All we can say about V (if it is V) is that he was present in the museum at around the same time Xykon first spotted the crown he took such a shine to. Nothing of note for V to remember there.
(And since the crown itself wasn't magical, V probably never gave it a second glance.)
Katana_Geldar
2009-11-02, 04:40 AM
V was training away in his/hers masters tower cut off from the rest of the world.
:vaarsuvius: I have been studying magic for six decades--longer than most casters of your ilk.
AND
:vaarsuvius: I studied magic for a century before I even mastered my 1st level spell. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html)
lothos
2009-11-02, 05:02 AM
How so? V was training back then and this was probably before he was married to Kyrie and they adopted the kids, whom are aged twenty six (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html). V has been with Kyrie and the kids for twenty of those twenty six years.
If Kyrie and V have been married for at least twenty six years (may be more) then this makes sense. I was under the impression that the crown was stolen about thirty years before Eugene told Roy. In addition, seven years passed between when Eugene told Roy and the forming of the Order of the Stick. So when V met Roy, he had already left his family.
Rich shows us the possibility that V could have been there, but why did V not mention it?
Why would V not mention it ? Well, the crown appears to be one of several items in the museum. At that point, Xykon hadn't stolen it. So I assumed that Xykon waited until later to return and steal the crown (around dinner time presumably). So while it's possible that V might notice it was the same crown he saw 30 odd years ago in a museum along with a load of other items, I wouldn't automatically assume he would remember it.
Berserk Monk
2009-11-02, 03:26 PM
:vaarsuvius: I have been studying magic for six decades--longer than most casters of your ilk.
AND
:vaarsuvius: I studied magic for a century before I even mastered my 1st level spell. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html)
And? However long V studied, the fact still remains that he/she left home six years ago, so it couldn't have been V in Cliffport.
Dark Faun
2009-11-02, 03:48 PM
Yes, but maybe V traveled before marrying Inkyrius. He didn't necessarily marry him as soon as he finished learning with Aarindarius.
OtOoPCs
Well, more accurately, as soon as he was kicked out.
Teddy
2009-11-02, 03:49 PM
And? However long V studied, the fact still remains that he/she left home six years ago, so it couldn't have been V in Cliffport.
V could have been traveling around the world before meeting Kyrie. There is nothing inconsistent about that since the timelines seems to say that the museum incident happened several years before they married.
EDIT: Ninja'd
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