Sever Magic [3.5, spell]

[deuxhero]

Got the idea from another thread (my idea, created to deal with the question the poster asked) and KotOR II
Sever Magic
Abjuration
Level: Cleric 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

This spell strips the target the target of all spellcasting, psionic, invocation ect. abilities. These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish (any Salient Divine ability that involves healing may restore these abilities, providing the caster of "Sever magic" does not have a higher devine rank).

Because of the casting time, the spell either requires a willing target (this target can be the caster), or a bound one.

Material component:A holy symbol of the targets faith (for divine casters), the target's spellbook (for wizards/archivists) or other symbol of potency in the art that is being removed (if the target has multiple such abilites, use one for each field). destroyed completely and uterly at the end of the casting.
Focus:A cage made of ???, costing ???. Material components are placed inside the cage during the spell.

Any suggestions?


edit:new verison
Sever Magic
Abjuration
Level: Cleric 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

This spell strips the target the target of all spellcasting, psionic, invocation ect. abilities. These abilities can be recovered by mortal magic including Heal, Wish, Miracle.

The target must be present during the entire casting, because of the casting time, the spell either requires a willing target (this target can be the caster), or a bound one.

Material component:A holy symbol that has been used as a focus by the target (for divine casters), the target's spellbook (for wizards/archivists) or other symbol of potency in the art that is being removed that belongs to the target (if the target has multiple such abilites, use one for each field). The material component is destroyed completely and utterly (This destruction is even further than standard material components).
Focus:A cage made of ???, costing ???. Material components are placed inside the cage during the spell.


Greater Sever Magic
Abjuration
Level: Cleric 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

As Sever Magic, but can not be restored except via a deitys intervention (a Salient Divine ability that involves healing may restore these abilities, providing the caster of "Sever magic" did not have a higher divine rank)

[Temotei]

I could totally see this being used by a villain, completely ruining a character's spellcasting abilities. :smallamused:

Maybe you should also include a way to reverse it. Like by doing a quest, or by gaining another level in a spellcasting class.

[Glimbur]

This is entirely too powerful. Make it willing only, or make it Epic magic.

As another aside, as a Touch spell this can be cast and held on your hand. Then you get another caster to Teleport you both next to the target. Then you touch the caster. No save, no SR, just melee touch attack and permanently lose all spellcasting. Too powerful.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Way, way too powerful. If it's such a low level, then it's got to be reversible by a spell.

[DragoonWraith]

To be immune to Wish and Miracle, it had better be at least a 9th level spell. Considering the power of the effect, as a 6th level spell it should probably be fixed by Limited Wish, too.

[deuxhero]

Ok, so 6th level version that can be fixed by wish/mircle, and a 9th level verison that needs a deity?

[CoffeeIncluded]

...It should have a will save, but the DC should pretty high and increases every hour (A very difficult but possible will save)

And what happens if they're interrupted by the casting? Or, if say it's against a wizard, the wizard has one spellbook stashed away where the caster couldn't find it?

[Zeta Kai]

Ok, so 6th level version that can be fixed by wish/mircle, and a 9th level verison that needs a deity?

No, that's still horribly broken. This thing needs to offer a saving throw AND/OR spell resistance, it needs to be negated by a wish/miracle, & only then will it work as a 9th level spell...

...One that no one will ever use, because if a player uses it, then a DM gets to use it on a player, & then that player by all rights should be able to slug the DM in the mouth for ruining their character. It's MDJ to the extreme.

[deuxhero]

...It should have a will save, but the DC should pretty high and increases every hour (A very difficult but possible will save)

And what happens if they're interrupted by the casting? Or, if say it's against a wizard, the wizard has one spellbook stashed away where the caster couldn't find it?

A save is pointless, "An unconscious creature is automatically willing" and all. I don't see anyone being able to hold you for 12 hours and be unable to KO you. If you were in that situation, unless the DM is a "tries purposefully to make the Paladin fall" ****, most BBEGs would just kill you.

At least one offical spell is simlar in casting time and such and gives you a nasty +2 LA template (fiendish).

[Lysander]

Here's a way to make it balanced.
First, allow for spell resistance and require that the subject be either willing or helpless and present for all 12 hours of casting.
Second, require an opposed caster check to determine if it succeeds.
Third, allow Greater Restoration to fix it.

[Temotei]

There's no save. Whoa--totally missed that. Haha that would influence things a bit. I thought it was overpowered before, but in a high-powered campaign, or in a low-magic system, it wouldn't be quite as bad...if it had a save. :smallannoyed:

Also, in the flavor of KotOR II, you should be able to restore your magical abilities by gaining experience, fighting, getting allies and associating with them...etc.

[DragoonWraith]

Yeah, I'm with Zeta Kai - this is a bad idea, no matter what the stats are, for the same reasons that MDJ is a bad idea.

[Temotei]

You could possibly make it only work on one spell, make it temporary, and allow spell resistance and a saving throw. Or maybe a school of spells, but that's pushing it, especially if the spellcaster in question is a summoner or something specific like that. Abuse is easy with this.

[Lysander]

Technically you could do something similar to this with Mindrape or Programmed Amnesia. Just turn the person into someone unwilling to use their magic under any circumstances. You could also use a geas to temporarily command them not to use magic.

[Temotei]

Or you could kill them. :smallcool:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yes, but this is more cruel. Way, way more cruel.

[Temotei]

Depends on the method of death-dealing...hmm...*contemplates* :smallamused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Or you could lose the magic which you've had/been struggling for your entire life. Lose it forever. And be powerless. Forever. It could drive a lot of people insane.

[Milskidasith]

You know, because it's a touch spell, you can cast it and hold the charge... meaning it's a no save death attack. Whee!

[Eurus]

Only if you don't touch anything else in the meantime... but really, I think that if you just stipulate that you have to be in contact with the victim for the entire casting time, there's not much you can do to abuse it. If you have someone at your mercy for twelve hours, removing their spellcasting ability is the least you could be doing.

[Stompy]

Actually, this wouldn't be bad if it had a (somewhat reasonable) recoverable way to get the guys stuff back. Heck, you can use Bestow Greater Curse (plus the alternative uses suggested in the book it's in.) to do nearly the same thing. (EDIT: This assumes that this spell is not held.)

Also, it is much easier to get a holy symbol of the targets faith than his/her spellbook.

[Lysander]

Or you could kill them. :smallcool:

But they might be resurrected. This is a way of making sure the level 20 necromancer you've just defeated can only be brought back as a level 20 unable to do anything whatsoever to harm you.

[deuxhero]

Only if you don't touch anything else in the meantime... but really, I think that if you just stipulate that you have to be in contact with the victim for the entire casting time, there's not much you can do to abuse it. If you have someone at your mercy for twelve hours, removing their spellcasting ability is the least you could be doing.

Thats what I intended.

How about requiring the holy symbol have been used by the character?

[Zeta Kai]

How about requiring the holy symbol have been used by the character?

Sorry, but it doesn't matter what restrictions or caveats you put into this spell. If anyone uses it, your entire campaign just crossed a nasty irrevocable threshold. Just like a disjunction casting, casting this spell not only ruins a character, but it opens the floodgates for other castings, which ruin yet more characters. Eventually, this happens to a PC, & then your game is brought to a screeching, shuddering, vomiting halt while the DM tries to stop a RL player meltdown. I've seen it in one of my games with a one-time artifact with similar effects, & you'll see it in your game if you let this happen. It's a Bad Idea, anyway you slice it.

[Milskidasith]

I could, however, see this as an interesting spell if it wasn't permanent. Something like:

Magical Implosion
Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Two rounds
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

When Magical Implosion is cast, it instantaneously converts all of a creature's remaining spell slots (prepared or spontaneous) into raw magical force. If a creature fails it's will save, it loses all of it's remaining spell slots for the day, taking 1d6 damage per spell level lost, which is not mitigatable in any way. Cantrips deal 1 damage each. No protection spells can block Magical Implosion entirely, although anything which boosts a creature's will save is still applied. A creature may regain it's spell slots the next day as normal.

Additionally, if this spell succeeds, treat it as a targeted Dispel Magic, but with no caster level limit.

EDIT: And in case you use psionics, take 1d6 damage per two PP remaining, rounding up.

[Lysander]

Or, simply make it permanent instead of instantaneous and allow it to be dispelled. It can still be hard to remove if cast by a magician with a high caster level.

[Zeta Kai]

Or, simply make it permanent instead of instantaneous and allow it to be dispelled. It can still be hard to remove if cast by a magician with a high caster level.

That's actually quite a bit better, as then, it's more of a dispellable suppression, rather than a permanent negation. A fine distinction, but a significant one.

[Lapak]

Chiming in with the 'this is a bad idea if un-removable.' Think about it; you're removing someone's primary class feature unwillingly and irrevocably. No one has (as far as I know) ever suggested a spell that, for example, permanently paralyzes a fighter with no save and no way to reverse it. Or a spell that forces a thief to whistle loudly and glow in the dark at all times, with no save and no way to remove it.

A Permanent-rather-than-instantaneous version does sound like a good compromise.

[Lysander]

And as a permanent spell it wouldn't need a 12 hour casting time. It could be a one round spell, but I'd bump the level up a little bit. That way it'd just be a save or die spell, except instead of dying the magician becomes powerless. That would actually be pretty satisfying to use in combat, but if used against you not disastrous if you have an ally to dispel you or a scroll of dispel magic.

[Amadi]

Yes, but this is more cruel. Way, way more cruel.

I don't know about you, but I like it when my players really hate the BBEG. This should work. :smallamused:

[Milskidasith]

Err... when you ruin a players character permanently, they hate you, not the BBEG.