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Shadwen
2009-10-25, 09:54 PM
The DuskBlade in 3.5 phb 2 refers to a class that is both melee and spellcaster. I see them being more a fighter so thats how imma build it. It a high stat campaign but gonna be hard. So i need to deal high amounts of dmg and survive for quite some time. We are level 1. The stats i rolled using his system were 18,17,16,16,16,14

I am a dwarf Duskblade. I like the dwarves...im sorry.

I need feats and ideas for future ideas only using DM guide/PHB 1-2/complete adventurer/complete warrior.

Thank you all.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-10-25, 10:39 PM
Power attack and a two handed weapon is given....In one of my Duskblade's build I used arcane strike (exchange a level for a +1d4/ spell level sacrficed) to use all the dices in the table per attack, but I think that feat is from Complete Warrior

Hawk7915
2009-10-25, 10:55 PM
Arcane Strike also requires 3rd level spells, so 9th level unless you take a fighter level for bonus feats. Good call once you can get it, though, yeah.

Two-handed weapon is the way to go: you can go for something flavorful but a Greatsword is the easiest choice. First feat should be Power Attack. I'd dump CHA or WIS (depends on your flavor), put my 18 on Int, 17 Str, 16 Con and Dex (Con becomes an 18).

Early spells to take:

1. Resist Energy - the get it as a 1st level, which is crazy good.
2. Ray of Enfeeblement - obviously the most nasty 1st level spell ever. Take it!
3. Color Spray - depends on group, but great battlefield control. If you are the only "arcane caster" and your team isn't 100% melee, take this.
4. True Strike - insta hit. Once you get Quick Cast at level 5, going for Quickened True Strike -> Arcane Channeling Shocking Grasp + Full Power Attack = dead anything at your CR.

And eventually take either Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp so that you have something decent to Arcane Channel besides Touch of Fatigue. Ask your DM how to handle Chill Touch; we rule that the Duskblade can cast it as a standard, and then gets 1 charge/level which he can channel for 1d6 frost + strength drain.

Duskblade can be an overwhelming amount of options and they are a bit of a glass cannon, so hopefully you have a tank to help protect you until you get to wear medium armor without casting penalty. Being a dorf will help you live a little longer, though (12HP at 1st level is nice, as is natural "spell resistance"). Go for eventually getting some mithral full plate for maximum armor.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-10-25, 10:58 PM
Arcane Strike also requires 3rd level spells, so 9th level unless you take a fighter level for bonus feats. Good call once you can get it, though, yeah.

Yeah maybe I should have mention that was a gestalf lvl 10 build.... Half-shadow dragon FTW!!!!

Draken
2009-10-26, 12:00 AM
See his avaiable books. Arcane Strike is in Complete Warrior and so it is not an option.

If you have the chance to change Complete Adventurer for another book, I recommend either Complete Warrior (for Arcane Strike) or Complete Mage (for Abjurant Champion, Duskblade Qualifies by using Deflect).

If changing books is not possible. Well, all I can recommend is Power Attack (PHB)+ Leap Attack (CA), with the ever-present two handed, of course, for -1 attack/+3 damage.

That leaves... Five feats to chose. Improved Initiative (PHB) is always a decent choice. Robilar's Gambit (PHB II) can be quite nasty. At 13° duskblade level, technicaly once you channel the spell it remains on your weapon until the end of the round and affects any targets that you hit during that round. So any attacks of opportunity you make after chanelling will also hit with the spell (and Robilar's will give you a few attacks of opportunity). Combat Reflexes (PHB) allows you to make use of those attacks of opportunity.

Options left... Nothing particularly promising I think. Quick Reconnoiter (CA) is nice, but Spot and Listen are cross-class. Insightful reflexes (CA) could improve your reflex saves, maybe. There are the Combat Form (PHB II) feats in the PHB II as well, some are decent I hear.

Master_Rahl22
2009-10-26, 09:11 AM
Obligatory Duskblade Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.0) link. One of the things I've done with my Duskblade is go with a Spiked Chain and Combat Expertise/Improved Trip. I can make up for my slight squishiness by tripping anything that comes close, and the quickened True Strike + PA + Channeling a spell does in fact = win.

Shadwen
2009-10-26, 11:59 AM
Thank you guys so very much. I love the glass cannon idea...i think with my extra feats ill take dodge and mobility. He is allowing complete warrior. So i will do what i can do power game this one. If there are any other suggestions just let me know.

jiriku
2009-10-26, 02:20 PM
Good spells include true strike, blade of blood, shocking grasp, and vampiric touch. Vampiric touch compensates well for hit points lost from blade of blood. Benign transposition is helpful for rescuing your friends from trouble and getting to grips with the bad guy.

Shadwen
2009-10-26, 06:42 PM
I need help improving this Character for more of a glass cannon. I wanna devastate the oposition and still have a way to survive in the campaign. Its a high point campaign and the dm wants us all to die..i dont wanna give him the satisfaction.

Books: PHB 1, PHB 2, DMG, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior.


level 1 Dwarf Duskblade
STR: 18 +4
Con: 18 +4
Dex: 16 +3
Int: 17 +3
Wis: 16 +3
Cha: 12 +1

Fort: 6
Will: 5
Reflex: 3

Feats:
Power Attack

Weapons: ? need a good weapon

Armor: Need good armor


if you need any other info from the char sheet let me know.

KillianHawkeye
2009-10-26, 06:44 PM
If the DM wants you all to die, then you're probably going to die.

Shadwen
2009-10-26, 06:50 PM
That is understood, but the idea is to give him a hard time trying to kill me..by 1 v 1 or bs. I want a character that can one hit or close to it anything at his cr or +1

Korivan
2009-10-26, 07:07 PM
Add in Leap Attack, if you wanna go with Power Attack. Make sure you go with a two handed weapon. Stick on bloodstone enchantment onto your weapon so you can have an empowered vampiric touch. Pop in the enchantment that stores spells as well, have your wizard companion/or use scrolls to toss in something mean. With bloodstone, spellstoring, channeling, weapon enchantments, strength, and power attack/leap attack, you should be able to one-shot most creatures.

As for crits, well, theres alot of crit building threads on this site. There can be alot of damage done with crits (theres 3 weapon augmentation crystals that help make sure you can crit most anything), but even with the best build its still random. I think the best I've ever made was 11-20 x6, or 7-20 x4.

Thrawn183
2009-10-26, 07:09 PM
I'd advise a spell-storing weapon. You have spells that you can cast into it yourself like shocking grasp if there is no one else in the party that can cast spells, and if there is all the better for you.

The strength of a Duskblade is their ability to nova. Just find ways to further increase that ability.

Shadwen
2009-10-26, 07:11 PM
Thank you, so spellstoring weapon i will have to talk to him about. And increase str.

Also what two handed weapon suggestions or armor do yall suggest?

Dusk Eclipse
2009-10-26, 07:17 PM
For a two-handed weapon a greatsword is given but a glaive is a good option since it has decent damage (D10) reach and can trip... If you can squeze EXP Spiked Chain is IMO a better option since it lets you attack (and trip) at range and when you are adjacent (sp?) to your enemy

Korivan
2009-10-26, 07:19 PM
I can't believe i forgot about Arcane Strike, its found in Complete Warrior...and you may want to talk to your DM about how many times you can use it in a round and if it will stack. I've found sites on the internet that says it does, but its up to the DM.

As for weapons, Scyth is nice, 2d4 damage x4 crit, chances are without help it won't crit often though. Theres Fullblade, can't remember where its from. Polearms are nice for the reach, especially when you enlarge yourself via belts, potions, scrolls, etc., and with channeling you can swift cast dimension hop yourself into the middle of the battle and makes the bad peoples die.

As for armor, I myself prefer the one that provides the best defense while not hindering my max Dex bonus. I try for the best initiative check as possible, as I always say "If you strike good enough the first time, you don't need to strike again".

Thorin
2009-10-26, 07:25 PM
For weapons, i would strongly suggest a spiked chain, because 15ft reach is always nice. For armor... you should start using a chained shirt (4/4/-2)

As enchantment goes, i think that spellstoring is a solid and strong choice for your weapon (as everyone else does too). For the armor... i really dunno

Korivan
2009-10-26, 07:30 PM
For weapons, i would strongly suggest a spiked chain, because 15ft reach is always nice. For armor... you should start using a chained shirt (4/4/-2)

As enchantment goes, i think that spellstoring is a solid and strong choice for your weapon (as everyone else does too). For the armor... i really dunno

For armor enchantments go, PH2 suggests Twilight...I donno why. Unless you plan on wearing really heavy armor, but your class abilities don't touch the heavy stuff. I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of walking around spending a small fortune for a 20-30% spell faliure chance. Energy Immunity is always nice, imediate action, helps a bundle against blasters and dragons.

Gametime
2009-10-26, 07:32 PM
If you want to survive the campaign, I wouldn't advise going for a "glass cannon" build. You want more of an adamantine cannon.

+1 on the Arcane Strike suggestion. Your DM may not allow it, but the rules allow the damage to stack indefinitely (although not the attack bonus). If you're only adding a few dice at a time, it shouldn't be unbalancing.

Korivan
2009-10-26, 07:38 PM
If you want to survive the campaign, I wouldn't advise going for a "glass cannon" build. You want more of an adamantine cannon.

+1 on the Arcane Strike suggestion. Your DM may not allow it, but the rules allow the damage to stack indefinitely (although not the attack bonus). If you're only adding a few dice at a time, it shouldn't be unbalancing.

And if the damage stacks thats all that matters, cause with a few extra plusses, full BAB, good STR, enchanted weapon, metal armored opponents with channeling shocking grasp and who cares if you roll low. Though, if you do find yourself hurtin with the hittin, use shock trooper feat, swaps place of your BAB with your AC.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-26, 07:43 PM
Just to put some numbers to the madness .... the damage you need to do to oneshot a CR+1 black dragon is about 20 times your level.

Spellstoring weapon + quickened truestrike + leap attack will not do this (arcane strike is piddling damage bonus really in the grand scheme of things, unless you let it stack with itself and I doubt there are many DMs who would agree with that reading). You won't even have the metamagic wand of quickening for this combo until level 12 at default WBL. At level 12 this combo will do around 100 damage, which is only halve of what you need.

One shotting a CR+1 opponent requires a level of cheese well beyond what your chosen class is really suited for IMO.

Korivan
2009-10-26, 07:49 PM
Unless you gestalt with a fighter for some bonus feats to crit better, and qualify for Weapon Master, in that case dealing close to 1,000 in a single hit is very, very possible.

Hawk7915
2009-10-26, 07:50 PM
Starting at level 1? For armor, can you start in Medium as a Duskblade? If not, Chain Shirt is the way to go, up to Breastplate when you get medium armor without penalty, and eventually a Mithral Full Plate +x with Deathward and Fortification on it.

If you want to survive, I have to recommend Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, saving Power Attack for 3rd level. Being able to attack and trip while staying a comfortable distance away (a distance that can immediately be made more comfortable with Swift Expeditious Retreat) is a great way to not get randomly ganked by an Anhkeg or Monstrous Crab or some such nonsense at 2nd level.

As I believe I suggested in another thread, make sure to take Ray of Enfeeblement as one of the spells you know. If the DM wants to cheater kill you and drop a 5th level Batman on the party, there's really nothing you can do except bravely run away. But if it's mostly just high CR brutes at early levels. Ray of Enfeeblement will knock em' back down to size. Kelgore's Firebolt is another option to have a damaging attack that partially ignores Spell Resistance that you can spam from a distance.

The biggest thing to ensure survival is to make sure you have party members who are equally competent: a Duskblade is a great cannon but if you don't have some good healer and LogicNinja Wizard support the best you can hope for is to one-shot an enemy or two and run long enough to die of fatigue :smallamused:.

deuxhero
2009-10-26, 08:08 PM
For armor enchantments go, PH2 suggests Twilight...I donno why.


Same reason some sample characters have illegal builds. For the record Twilight is bad (for duskblades anyway) becuase they ignore ACF based on armor weight, not reduction in ACF. The only armor you are getting to 0 ACF via Twilight is a (mithral) chain shirt, while great for casters, you can alreddy wear a chain shirt with no penalty. Mithral is good for the reasons I gave

Thurbane
2009-10-26, 08:43 PM
I think with such godly ability scores, you might be OK! :smalltongue:

65 point buy? Or just lucky rolling (nudge nudge, wink wink)? :smallbiggrin:

Shadwen
2009-10-26, 09:51 PM
Ok for the survival aspect yes i agree with the spiked chain. I was going to see since im just beginning as i found out about an hour ago that everyone else is level 4, so imma try and get level 3 from him. The idea is a hit and run idea on my part. I really need to start clarifying things. I plan on wrecking face then running like a lil sissy girl. And the rolls...well he said roll and 4d6 not lower than 13.

My plan is a Channel Shocking Grasp + High Damage Weapon + TrueStrike, then i would regroup once i get it for a ambush attack by my group. So far the guys are Ranger, Fighter, Barbarian. Im stuck being the only caster...but with such great combat/magic combination skills..i wanna wreck face.


When im stronger maybe use vampiric touch instead of shocking...and add in blade of blood to that mix when i have a free slot...So i can stack damage..The idea of arcane strike...i doubt he has read that far into the book...i might get to pull it off...done it when he ran vampire the masquerade.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 12:24 PM
which would be more beneficial for a dwarf duskblade? im stacking arcane strike and my duskblade channeling. Trying to stack more damage as soon as possible...


dont worry about prereqs..i can get to them.
Only PHB 1-2 DMG Complete adventurer/Warrior


I have though about a Duskblade/Spellsword

or a Duskblade/cleric (does harm since a touch spell...work with arcane channeling)

or Duskblade/Sorcerer

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 12:25 PM
Does the Touch spell from the cleric class work with arcane channeling?


If so does harm work with it?

Tavar
2009-10-27, 12:30 PM
Yes, they do. Note that the weapon hits first, then the spell goes off, so you can't kill them with the spell, only bring them down to 1 hp. Still pretty good.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 12:32 PM
Its an idea for an offset fighter group. Me being the first hitter...i wanna wreck the opponent if i can...and leave it for the rest...since duskblade was not built to be the tank...just the cannon.



Maybe if i were to add Spellblade in the end...maybe a one shotter? or a spellstoring axe?

Animefunkmaster
2009-10-27, 12:46 PM
Why not just continue duskblade? The first thing regarding Arcane Strike is the 'Arcane' part and won't work with divine casting. Also, "Arcane" Channeling. Duskblade is sort of a catch all gish in one class (albeit weaker in the finer ways of arcane casting).

With that said a dip in sorcerer or wizard really wouldn't give much worth mentioning over the more bab and better spells with duskblade. I wouldn't think of dipping in spell sword, unless that 10% will make a big difference to you.

With the books you have available the alternative gish is:
Wizard6/Fighter 1/Spell Sword 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard +2
BAB 16
9th level spells
10% off Arcane Spell Failure (Mithral chain shirt and mithral buckler ain't too bad)

Power Attack + Arcane Strike + Alter Self/Polymorph/ShapeChange= Very Powerful

I would specialize in transmutation.

If other SRD options are available, then you can pick up domain wizard transmutation (since you realistically lose nothing). Those last two wizard levels could swap for more spell sword, but it would cost you 9th level casting by 20.

Also Spell Storing Weapon. Do you have one?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-27, 12:50 PM
I recommend Duskblade 8/Crusader 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 10(not in that order) or Duskblade 7/Bard 1/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8(in that order). Other than that, often the best PrC for Duskblades is more Duskblade, though if you can find a way to grab Haste, Swiftblade is nice.

Edit: NO SPELLSWORD! Your ignore ASF is based on Armor size, not on the actual ASF rating. the -10% doesn't help you.

Blackfang108
2009-10-27, 01:31 PM
(does harm since a touch spell...work with arcane channeling)

Yes. ALL touch range spells you can cast under your own power(no UMD), regardless of class, work with Arcane Channeling.

Even Shivering Touch, if you somehow can.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 01:42 PM
The spellsword isnt for the arcane spells armor thing...its more for the storing extra spells in my sword so that i may destroy things. The arcane in the section i did not see it say i couldnt use divine spells in my channeling...also Melee strike + arcane strike + harm + stored Shocking grasp + true strike seems decent..I may not take the levels in spellsword and just buy the spellstoring affect and just transfer the harm through arcane channel...also arcane strike..it says i lose spells does it specify they have to be arcane?

Blackfang108
2009-10-27, 02:32 PM
The spellsword isnt for the arcane spells armor thing...its more for the storing extra spells in my sword so that i may destroy things. The arcane in the section i did not see it say i couldnt use divine spells in my channeling...also Melee strike + arcane strike + harm + stored Shocking grasp + true strike seems decent..I may not take the levels in spellsword and just buy the spellstoring affect and just transfer the harm through arcane channel...also arcane strike..it says i lose spells does it specify they have to be arcane?

I don't believe so. Read it carefully, but I think it's just spells in general. Especialy because the feat seems designed for Low-Wis Rangers and Paladins.

Aron Times
2009-10-27, 02:47 PM
The duskblade is one of the best written classes in 3.5 since it's actually good from level 1 to 20. It is also balanced, unlike its cousins the fighter (underpowered) and the wizard (overpowered).

Your best bet would be to stay as a single-class duskblade.

Frosty
2009-10-27, 02:52 PM
Except for the Dragon Shaman, all of the classes in the PHB2 can be taken to level 20 and not be total suckitude.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 06:07 PM
After speaking with my DM he decided that it would be better if i used a heavy shield starting at level 7, and a dwarven waraxe. Single all the way to 20. Thank you guys...but if you have any other suggestions that would out do that idea..please let me know.

Chrono22
2009-10-27, 06:11 PM
I disagree that the duskblade is good for all 20 levels or balanced: it does cheesy amounts of damage- but suffers MAD and can't do much else in the course of play. So, it has the same limitations as a fighter, sans the bonus feats.
It gains power at irregular intervals too: it's very front heavy.
That said I can see how playing a Duskblade/Warblade would be an attractive build.

Diamondeye
2009-10-27, 07:34 PM
Duskblade/Warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage. You need one martial study in a Desert Wind or Devoted Spirit to get into the PrC, but both classes use INT so you're good there. Mix the levels how you like.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 08:48 PM
Ok...i listed books in the first post..please stick to those books. Also the duskblade has some nice features that make up for the lack of feats. So give me some multiclass or even prestige to move into.

Roland St. Jude
2009-10-27, 09:45 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Four duskblade threads by the same person in the span of a few days? One thread per topic please!

Four threads merged so expect a bit of oddity above.