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Mystic Muse
2009-10-26, 12:44 AM
okay. Given the option I almost always play as a girl in RPGs and video games. When I was younger my cousins accused me of being "Gay" for doing so. I explained I do this to somebody and they replied "I don't wanna know." and recently in my D&D group another player commented on the fact I was playing a girl.


what's wrong with this exactly? before you ask I don't enact "personal fantasies" with my characters. I just change the gender of my characters and play them as I would any character of my own.

I find girls to be superior to guys for some reason. I apologize if this offends you in some way I just do and THAT'S why I play as them.

Dienekes
2009-10-26, 12:49 AM
Ehh, one of my friends act as you do. Other than a few lewd comments at the start nothing came of it (meaning, after a joke or two we settled and played as normal)

While I don't doubt there will be someone, somewhere who is living some odd fantasy through a gender reversal, and Freud may have a thing or two to say, I wouldn't give it much thought.

You RP what you feel like, hopefully the people you play with will get used to it or become mature enough to not give a crap.

Edit (poor joke for those who will take me seriously for some odd reason): But seriously now, women superior to men? That's just crazy talk, we're so much bigger and stronger and are brains are like twice their size.

Flayerman
2009-10-26, 12:50 AM
I call my friend who does this a tranny, because he never plays a male character, except one time, when he got a belt of gender-changing he used as a disguise.

...in good fun. Because it doesn't matter, and anyone who tells you it does needs to be reminded that OOC/IC has a magical wall that you can't break ever or bad things happen to everyone. >.>

EDIT: And even if he really was, who cares?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-26, 12:54 AM
I play whichever gender fits the character. Many are male, because I've had similar issues as you when playing females(and generally I don't care much about the gender), but certain characters need to be female(my young, innocent Malconvoker and my Tibbit Summoner (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=159388) come to mind).

As for why it disturbs people, they're sitting there, trying to put themselves in the place of their character, and then you force them to try to mentally superimpose a female over you instead of just a suit of armor.

Also, whenever most people picture cross-gender roleplaying, their minds go here (http://www.shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/2009/10/12/the-titular-chainmail-bikini/) first.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 12:54 AM
While I don't find women superior to men or vice-versa per-se', I do play many females myself and am I male gamer. In fact, my last characters are, in order:

Medusa, a pixie merchant (well, the husband is the main character but I really built the pair for the wife), a pair of female Dvati twins, and a female half-Manticore...

The only major problem I encounter is voices. I'm a baritone (ish) and have a very bad female voice. I'm also a bit shy with voices at the table now, as none of my other friends do them anymore...

But nothing is wrong with playing female characters. As for personal fantasies, I enact mental scenes with the characters quite often; usually things that happened prior to the character meeting with the group like past battles or when they learned certain skills.

Oh wait, you mean sexual fantasies...heehee.

But yeah, I get ragged on for it. Just as much as anyone else in the group gets ragged on. Except 'that guy'. Because, you know, were all know he'll take immediate and serious offense.

Starscream
2009-10-26, 01:24 AM
I've played a couple of female characters. No big deal. Some backstories just work better with them. Some species probably would, too. Nobody wants to hang around with a male Nymph.:smallbiggrin:

Your friends are being immature. Unless you are LARPing, in which case please leave the chain mail lingerie at home.

But even then I'd say the fact that you are LARPing is a bigger sign of issues than the fact that you are LARPing as a girl.:smallwink:

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-10-26, 01:27 AM
OK, I myself am a girl and I have often considered playing a male character simply cause I have a guy or two in my group who occasionaly try to push the "Your a woman, women in medival settings are second class citizens" schtick. they generally mean it in jest but the joke gets old really fast.

No one in my group plays a gneder other than their own. For this reason I have been hesitant to do so myself. They are all guys.

The way I see it, if a man(or woman) acuses someone of being gay for playing the opposite gender in a game, they themselves are too insecure to do it. If a man can suck it in and announce in a girly voice that he is the Paladin Princess Shaharazad and he/she will slay the villain then he's probably pretty secure in who he is.

If people get uptight at you, simply ask what makes them so uncomfortable about it? Can they not handel it themselves thus feel the need to rag on you for it?

Also Kyuubi I actually had no idea you were a guy! . . . lol I took your icon at face value. just goes to show you can play a pretty convincing girl from an RP perspecitive. (THIS IS A COMPLIMENT)

KillianHawkeye
2009-10-26, 01:27 AM
what's wrong with this exactly?

Nothing's wrong with it, and it definitely doesn't mean that you're gay. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, either.)

Some people simply lack the imagination to picture a character properly if it differs wildly from the person playing it. They're unable to consider playing an opposite-gendered character themselves, therefore it seems weird to them when others do so.

Others are not very open-minded and are made uncomfortable by it because they aren't secure with their own sexuality or are closet homophobes or something. But that is really more a problem of theirs and has nothing to do with you at all.

And of course, there are those who just aren't that into roleplaying and don't see any point to it.



Personally, about a third of my characters in various RPGs have been female, and I do it mainly just to put myself in a different mindset than normal. For me, it's about doing something different and pushing my boundaries. Switching to a different gender can be a good roleplaying challenge, especially if your goal is to pull it off without your character ending up as an offensively stereotypical caricature. Playing an unusual race that's not just "humans with pointy ears or a beard" is good for this, too. With any character, I try to put myself in their mind and act like they act. In fact, some of my most rewarding characters have been female ones (and not just because they were female).

ex cathedra
2009-10-26, 01:34 AM
This doesn't make you 'gay' in that connotation, but after all they are younger children, who for the most part don't require logic to create arguments.

It is, however, odd that you only play characters that aren't your gender, and it does carry certain implications.

Superior? That's... I disagree. I certainly happen to generally prefer women to men, but, superior? That's... painful to hear. I won't expand upon this because I'd rather not degenerate into what could be construed as insults.

I play characters of both genders. In D&D, though, I primary play men because I find them easier to roleplay (being male, and all). In other genres and games I play either based on... vanity, I guess.

Mystic Muse
2009-10-26, 01:43 AM
I guess I shouldn't say superior. That's not quite what I mean. let's put it this way. all the girls I know are much more civilized than most of the guys I know therefore I like most of them better.

If I see a good reason to play a male character I will. If I can find a character concept I want to play then I'll play them as male if I feel the archetype fits a male character better.

at shadowGrnseyes. I thank you. I do consider that a compliment.

and at the deadpool chimichanga guy. No I don't LARP and I probably wouldn't RP a girl in a LARP. Maybe a guy with a brain defect that thinks he's a six year old girl just to be funny but otherwise? can't see it happening.

Superglucose
2009-10-26, 02:05 AM
All women all the time for this Playgrounder.

Why?

Actually, it started as a lark. See, we used a system with mutable spells, and since the weights for female characters were significantly lower (by twenty to fifty pounds) than that of the male characters, the "fly" spells (which were based on weight) ended up being cheaper. So it was advantageous to play exactly one type of character (a flier) as a female.

So we were laughing at how mechanically the ladies were more powerful... same stats but have less mass and less height, two things that actually worked to their advantage in the system. Suddenly we were finding other uses for the weight decrease (female gnome using a PC half-giant as a mount), and when we were hanging about designing characters someone said "The most important first step in optimization is female. All characters should be female." Somehow this just got adopted as our maxim, and thus...

All of your characters should be female. No exceptions. Designing the massive combat brute? Female. Designing the king? Female. Designing the biological parents of the BBEG? Both female.

That is why I always play female characters :smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2009-10-26, 02:12 AM
Designing the biological parents of the BBEG? Both female.


This is kinda disturbing.......

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-26, 02:16 AM
This is kinda disturbing.......Then check this. (http://www.shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/2009/10/23/10/)
...
Really, that comic is just too good a representation of the issues with gamers.

Kallisti
2009-10-26, 02:20 AM
This is kinda disturbing.......

And yet, with the publication of BoEF, probably doable:smalleek:...

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-26, 02:22 AM
And yet, with the publication of BoEF, probably doable:smalleek:...Perfectly reasonable application of Polymorph even before the BoeF. If it allows a Dragon to breed with a fish, it can allow 2 females to have a child. BoEF just makes rules for it so the DM doesn't have to think too hard about the subject.

Mystic Muse
2009-10-26, 02:29 AM
okay, backup, throw BoEF out the window and continue with the actual conversation.

let's not go there.Please.

Coidzor
2009-10-26, 02:39 AM
That would be part of precisely the problem though.

Personally I find figuring out the psychological basis of a female adventurer in the hodgepodge millieu of DND proper even more difficult than a male adventurer due to the whole question of relative sexisms which I just prefer not to think on the point where I could play one convincingly and authentically. Hell, it's difficult enough in one that's just based off of what I encounter in every day life as it is.

So in terms of coming up with characters I could care about, it's just damned difficult. I have trouble writing female characters I don't care about as it is.

Hell, enough trouble writing characters... bleh. :smallfrown:

As far as judging people for it, I don't see the point. I've tried it a few times, both with out and out girls and one kid of undiscernable gender that I eventually settled upon as female.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 02:40 AM
I do the same in video games and the like, but have played all males (with the exception of a construct) at the tabletop. The reason being that I don't want to make my friends uncomfortable. My next character, when I'm a player again, will break that.

I have a lot of reasons though. For video games, it seems that more work is put into making the models for female characters. The guys always look blocky and retarded. Then again, IRL, the feminine shape is like art while the masculine one looks to me like it was thrown together last minute for a deadline with the intent of patching it later... So maybe the games are doing a good job of it. I personally have trouble understanding how women can find us attractive.

The personality of a female character is more flexible than that of a male. Women can do/be/wear anything and act however. Men are expected to be more rigid and have less emotion. Though, my IRL personality isn't really categorized in any direction... But some of my character ideas work better with a female character while I can't think of a single character concept that works better as a male character than a female. Well, maybe a womanizer type of character might... But that's really it.

I have more _______ for women than I do for men in general, but not in any specific cases. That is, people I know personally don't have their gender effecting my judgment of them in any way. I'm not sure what the word is that belongs in the blank. It's similar to the word "respect", I think, but that's certainly not it.

Eldariel
2009-10-26, 02:43 AM
I've played ~50% male, 50% female characters and intend on keeping doing so. I had a streak of female characters at a point and my friends were actually surprised when I announced I'm going to play a male for a change (this was for the Low-Magic World game I'm writing a diary on right now). That said, many of my male friends only play male characters, and the girls I've gamed with almost invariably have played female characters.


Really, it's just one variable, and I don't really see why people find it weird to change; there're bound to be more differences between Elf males and Human males than there are between Human males and Human females and yet one seems to be something nobody minds changing while the other one is somehow difficult.

Is it because different sexes actually do exist and people are afraid they cannot properly roleplay the other one, while Elves don't exist and thus they're more open to your vision/nobody gets offended by clichés you pull off/whatever? I can't say, but there seems to be more friction to play a different sex than there is to playing a different race or a different "class". Maybe it's just 'cause the two other parts are more clearly fantasy?

Vangor
2009-10-26, 02:44 AM
We always mock my friend for this, primarily because whenever he creates a female character with a digital representation the character is as 'girlish' as possible in spite of being an adventurer. My character tends to be whichever gender I feel fits the character, and this means my arrogant Elven wizard or my brutish Orcish barbarian are male, whereas every Half-Elf I create is female and the bards, assassins, and sorcerers (sorceresses) are as well.

For a while, we had toyed with the idea of males and females possessing a distinct advantage of disadvantage when discussing with certain folk, depending on the personalities, such as an alpha male mercenary will respond well to a female but not a male, but the male mercenary company leader may not particularly be trusting in the abilities of a female, and a female advisor to a King may feel more trusting of a female in the group, whereas any female using her charms to coerce the party may be simply hostile towards other females. This became more complicated than worth, since the person needed to know the personality to select who might socialize, with the hopes two characters had good social skills, and we could merely substitute all of this for enjoying alcohol, being arrogant, etc., to where a bit of roleplaying accomplishes the same and feels less forced.

Plenty of people prefer playing characters as distinct from themselves as possible, or trying to create an obvious persona, and this includes gender. No one should care.

I tend to play females in video games, too, merely because the females generally appear far more serious as characters if a tad sexualized.

Starscream
2009-10-26, 03:19 AM
A question for the OP: Do the other players in your group ever taunt the DM when he (or she) plays a character of the opposite sex?

Because unless everyone in your campaign worlds are the same gender, it's pretty much inevitable that you're going to deal with this eventually. What about the other posters who say they always play the same gender? Do you ever DM?

Zaydos
2009-10-26, 03:44 AM
I've had (male) friends who played female characters (one time a full blown nekomimi), and while we all made jokes about it even at the table I told them honestly I respect you for this and wish I could seriously role-play a NPCs because I fail at RPing girls. That said we made fun of someone else for playing a blaster sorceress who blew every up, another person for playing a character with 8 intelligence, and another for being the nymphomaniac fox girl. Strangely enough our friend (male) who looked up pictures of cat girls and played a girl never once got picked on for it, he got picked on because he stated he was playing a sex mage (BoEF) and then took all fire, blasting spells. In short we found something to pick on for every character, and we quickly stopped picking on him for playing a girl (instead we were saying "why is your character useless?" but that's a different story). We just took whatever was easiest and everyone knew it was just hanging out (yes me and my friends are mutually abusive).

That said my next character might be a female dwarf... I don't know yet and it won't be for months anyway (I'm a perennial DM) and I might not even decide till some point in game (s/he always wears intelligent battle-plate with a restful crystal and a ring of sustenance) maybe letting myself learn by RPing Vindalf. I hope I won't chicken out and just play a male, but I see the character as too aggressive, ax happy, and bull-like to be a girl.

GallóglachMaxim
2009-10-26, 04:10 AM
I play female characters quite regularly in computer RPGs, but have avoided it so far in person because I didn't have any characters to override the slightly increased level of awkward.


A question for the OP: Do the other players in your group ever taunt the DM when he (or she) plays a character of the opposite sex?

The players in the group I DM became convinced that the one recurring female NPC in my last game (there were other female NPCs, including one of the villains, but they didn't get as much 'screen time') was a lesbian, which they say had something to do with the way I played her, but couldn't explain what in particular. No taunting as such, but some in and out of character confusion.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 04:13 AM
Honestly, "This character concept only works as a girl," feels a little bit sexist to me. Why can't the gentle, soft-spoken, doves-and-bunnies-and-kittens healer druid be a guy?

Anyway. When you create a character, you give them traits that make them interesting to you- you're creating someone you 'care about' in some way or another. Some people make characters who are just like them, some people make who they'd like to be, some people make who they admire, or who they're attracted to, and some people make their complete opposite. Your cousins are assuming you're doing one when you're doing another- and they're being rather immature about it.

axraelshelm
2009-10-26, 06:05 AM
It's a great disguise when i dress up in character, but hmmm played female characters before and sometimes it's great to step on the other side. But unless i'm playing in a setting that is the source of the inspiration to the characters generation. Joan of Arc/Mulan that sort of thingI generaly don't play women these days. But aren't we all living a fantasy in game? i mean I can't think of the last time I transformed into a Golem.

axraelshelm
2009-10-26, 06:11 AM
I've had (male) friends who played female characters (one time a full blown nekomimi), and while we all made jokes about it even at the table I told them honestly I respect you for this and wish I could seriously role-play a NPCs because I fail at RPing girls. That said we made fun of someone else for playing a blaster sorceress who blew every up, another person for playing a character with 8 intelligence, and another for being the nymphomaniac fox girl. Strangely enough our friend (male) who looked up pictures of cat girls and played a girl never once got picked on for it, he got picked on because he stated he was playing a sex mage (BoEF) and then took all fire, blasting spells. In short we found something to pick on for every character, and we quickly stopped picking on him for playing a girl (instead we were saying "why is your character useless?" but that's a different story). We just took whatever was easiest and everyone knew it was just hanging out (yes me and my friends are mutually abusive).

That said my next character might be a female dwarf... I don't know yet and it won't be for months anyway (I'm a perennial DM) and I might not even decide till some point in game (s/he always wears intelligent battle-plate with a restful crystal and a ring of sustenance) maybe letting myself learn by RPing Vindalf. I hope I won't chicken out and just play a male, but I see the character as too aggressive, ax happy, and bull-like to be a girl.


I don't know dude, I've seen and met some pretty aggressive women before and they had rocked my world more than once. ;-)

Yora
2009-10-26, 07:27 AM
I think a lot of character concepts I like to play work best with a female character, so I play them like that. If I want to play something I think would work best as a male, I often do that too.

DragoonWraith
2009-10-26, 07:52 AM
My signature contains all the characters I've actually played in a game (since I've only ever played PbP). Veyr, Chance, Paul Lukische, Cuile Rahonda, Aghihoti, and Faernacha are male, Melina, Maria, Caran Eru, and Talya are female. So, almost 50/50; I mostly just go with what seems fitting for the character. Hell, my next character will be an ooze.

warmachine
2009-10-26, 08:08 AM
I play with someone who played and still plays almost exclusively female characters and this was noted. Since I've known her, she changed her real life gender from male to female. Apparently, she's been dressing in women's clothes and wanting to be a woman since childhood. I kid you not. I merely thought she was bi-sexual when she was male.

I wish I could see your face after that implied accusation. I'm certainly not going to suggest you should become transsexual. Always remember that gender is a continuous spectrum, not a binary divide. It is possible that you're clearly on the male end of such a spectrum but not on the extreme end.

Myself, I only occasionally play female characters. My current Pathfinder character is a mother-clucking hen. That has to be female as I doubt I could play it as a male without bullying.

Talya
2009-10-26, 08:12 AM
Perfectly reasonable application of Polymorph even before the BoeF. If it allows a Dragon to breed with a fish, it can allow 2 females to have a child. BoEF just makes rules for it so the DM doesn't have to think too hard about the subject.

As a side note, this is biologically possible in the real world, in a lab. (The same cannot be said for two males.) Also note, the offspring of two females will always be female, as there is no Y chromosome to pass on to their progeny.

AtwasAwamps
2009-10-26, 08:32 AM
Without trying to smack anyone down here, I’d like to point out that it’s also not abnormal for someone to feel a little weird about this.

Let’s be honest here. It does take a strong open mind to accept that the dude across from you with a beard and ding-a-ling is actually pretty paladin princess in game. It’s not 100% easy to RP for most people in an RP heavy game, and in a hack-and-slash fest it’s easy to forget and just overlook it, except when reminded via jokes.

I’m not trying to say its wrong and I totally agree that you should play a character to the hilt of the concept it originated with. However, I also can’t blame other players if they have trouble accepting the character at first. Obvious name-calling and belittling is out of call and immature, but mild discomfort IS understandable.

Again, I am not trying to be inflammatory. I’m just saying that if you give people a little time to get used to it, they eventually will. But don’t expect to be a guy, play a girl character, and have everyone accept it automatically. Gamers are no more accepting and kind than regular human beings, even if they DO have experience playing as Halflings.

Shpadoinkle
2009-10-26, 08:41 AM
They're just giving you **** because that's what guys do. It's how we bond. It's our way of testing someone to see how they'll react.

Evil the Cat
2009-10-26, 08:50 AM
While in video games, I always play as a female character when it is an option, in tabletop games, I usually play as male characters. In D&D, I almost never play female. However, in my general group, virtually the entire spectrum can be found. 2 people will NEVER play as girls. One has only once in his entire life played as a male character (and he's been gaming since before 1st ed.) 1 person plays about 75% female, and one plays a fairly even split. Note: the only female player in the group almost always plays female characters.

At this point, its so commonplace, that nobody even thinks twice about it.


For some reason, for me anyways, in lighter games I'm more likely to play a female. I find RPing a wide variety of characters keeps things interesting, and many of my concepts work best that way. In a more serious game, I'll very rarely play as a female, since situations could come up where proper RPing would just weird me out too much.

Oddly, right now I'm in 4 different games, and only one of them is a male character. Doubly odd that both my D&D games I'm playing as female. One is a adorable female gnome with a penchant for mischief. (she especially loves playing with cats, though the cats don't seem to appreciate this) If a male torments cats, hes obviously bad, but if a girl does it, it can be cute.

From my experiences, its just a matter of preference and RP style. One player (the one who has been playing the longest) actually only has about 2-4 character concepts. He just modifies them to fit any game/genre we're in. All of these are female characters.

Khanderas
2009-10-26, 09:34 AM
That said my next character might be a female dwarf... I don't know yet and it won't be for months anyway (I'm a perennial DM) and I might not even decide till some point in game (s/he always wears intelligent battle-plate with a restful crystal and a ring of sustenance) maybe letting myself learn by RPing Vindalf. I hope I won't chicken out and just play a male, but I see the character as too aggressive, ax happy, and bull-like to be a girl.
I got a plan similar, to play one of the lizard folk and check with the DM that its not a world were non-mammals have mammeries (that is b00bs).
When joining up with the party they will then see a 2.30m tall lizard in a loincloth, causing them to assume it is male without even questioning it.

And then suprise them a few weeks later when they notice. Perhaps when they ask where the eggs they ate for breakfast came from .. :smallbiggrin:

Fishy
2009-10-26, 09:41 AM
I got a plan similar, to play one of the lizard folk and check with the DM that its not a world were non-mammals have mammeries (that is b00bs).
When joining up with the party they will then see a 2.30m tall lizard in a loincloth, causing them to assume it is male without even questioning it.

And then suprise them a few weeks later when they notice. Perhaps when they ask where the eggs they ate for breakfast came from .. :smallbiggrin:

I kind of want to do the opposite, and play a Kobold who escaped from mines and slavery and now has a fondness for frilly dresses.

And has levels in Combat Trapsmith.

Khanderas
2009-10-26, 09:42 AM
I kind of want to do the opposite, and play a Kobold who escaped from mines and slavery and now has a fondness for frilly dresses.

And has levels in Combat Trapsmith.
A male or female kobold ?

MickJay
2009-10-26, 10:09 AM
And then suprise them a few weeks later when they notice. Perhaps when they ask where the eggs they ate for breakfast came from .. :smallbiggrin:

For some reason I find this far more disturbing than any gender-bending roleplaying... :smalltongue: In the games I played, most players had characters of the same gender as their own. Female players seem to be more at ease roleplaying men than the other way round, from what I've seen.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 10:22 AM
Well, it's societally more acceptable. A man going out in women's clothes gets laughed at; a woman going out in man's clothes might turn heads or get some remarks depending on what the precise attire is, but it's generally much more muted.

Golden-Esque
2009-10-26, 10:41 AM
So I guess by this standard, all DMs have Schizophrenia, huh? :)

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 10:44 AM
So I guess by this standard, all DMs have Schizophrenia, huh? :)


Schizophrenia, from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. Distortions in perception may affect all five senses, including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, but most commonly manifest as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction.

I think you were looking for 'multiple personality disorder' or 'dissociative identity disorder.' (MPD/DID are the same thing with different names.)

ZeroNumerous
2009-10-26, 10:45 AM
I flip a coin.

Gender is only relevant to people who aren't omnisexual. :smallamused:

AtwasAwamps
2009-10-26, 10:53 AM
So I guess by this standard, all DMs have Schizophrenia, huh? :)

The DM is a different entity from the player. You accept that the DM is not just playing a role but creating a world. Thus I can see why people who would wrestle with this concept have no issue when its applied from the DM perspective. The DM playing the opposite gender is simply a part of DnD and is a conceit of their main duty of world building. It's not really an applicable comparison for that reason.

peacenlove
2009-10-26, 11:06 AM
I tend to play women as a player also. My longest living character (1,5 years) was also a human female fallen noble, independent and intelligent. Even got married at the end with the party's warlock ( a male (?) changeling ). Started because i wanted to change my usual male characters and as a remembrance of my childhood years ( i grew up with 2 female cousins (don't know the exact english word :smallredface:) which both were independent, listened to heavy music and influenced my life greatly ).
Fun times the DM was accepting and even enriched my roleplaying experience without acting strange and the party either didn't care or embraced this decision ( i know them for over 3 years though )
It's a game after all it's not fun to be picked off for every detail you make nor anyone should think too deeply of his choices :smallsmile:

Tyndmyr
2009-10-26, 11:08 AM
It certainly isn't always something wierd/crazy, but it can be. The whole "I only play female characters" and "females are better" is definite grounds for making fun of someone, though.

peacenlove
2009-10-26, 11:17 AM
It certainly isn't always something wierd/crazy, but it can be. The whole "I only play female characters" and "females are better" is definite grounds for making fun of someone, though.

There is the distinction "i usually play female characters" ( For instance my second longest lived character (1 year) was a male ) and "i always play female characters". The first shouldn't be even mentioned about, the second however stems ( is caused by ? Again my english fail me ) from deeper experiences in life and that person should check the reasons of why he does it all the time.

"females are better" i see it only as sexism and something to be avoided altogether :smallannoyed:. Neither of those reasons seem to me as "funny" however.
But expand on that please and take my comments with a grain of salt, maybe i was quick on my judgment.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-26, 11:23 AM
If you try to tell all your buddies how women are so much more awesome than men, it tends to come across as "hey, I just hit puberty" or "I've lived a very sheltered life". I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if that resulted in plenty of joking.

Likewise, on the always playing female characters...a lot of this depends on how you play them. Is gender mostly incidental to the character as a whole, or is it the focus? Are you hitting on other party members? Having seen this played off by various people, results can range from creepy to hysterical.

As with most things, it's all in the how and why.

Optimystik
2009-10-26, 11:29 AM
It just depends on the character concept I want to go with. Generally I like flipping roles, so I play male casters and female melee unless I'm going the "hulking brute" route.

In computer games, I play males much more often, simply for the eye candy :smallbiggrin:

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 11:33 AM
They're just giving you **** because that's what guys do. It's how we bond. It's our way of testing someone to see how they'll react.

And once more evidence appears to support my perception of the general male populous having the personality of the stereotypical frat boy. Not any of the ones I know. Just all the ones I don't.

I think that helps explain what I was trying to say in my previous post, but still I'm not sure of how exactly to word what I meant.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-26, 11:38 AM
Teasing someone isn't just an aspect of frat boy personality, yknow.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 11:38 AM
And once more evidence appears to support my perception of the general male populous having the personality of the stereotypical frat boy. Not any of the ones I know. Just all the ones I don't.

I think that helps explain what I was trying to say in my previous post, but still I'm not sure of how exactly to word what I meant.

And how many people do you know, male and female, who never do friendly teases at all? It is a very wide and accepted social practice in modern day.

Optimystik
2009-10-26, 11:39 AM
Without trying to smack anyone down here, I’d like to point out that it’s also not abnormal for someone to feel a little weird about this.

Let’s be honest here. It does take a strong open mind to accept that the dude across from you with a beard and ding-a-ling is actually pretty paladin princess in game. It’s not 100% easy to RP for most people in an RP heavy game, and in a hack-and-slash fest it’s easy to forget and just overlook it, except when reminded via jokes.

I’m not trying to say its wrong and I totally agree that you should play a character to the hilt of the concept it originated with. However, I also can’t blame other players if they have trouble accepting the character at first. Obvious name-calling and belittling is out of call and immature, but mild discomfort IS understandable.

Again, I am not trying to be inflammatory. I’m just saying that if you give people a little time to get used to it, they eventually will. But don’t expect to be a guy, play a girl character, and have everyone accept it automatically. Gamers are no more accepting and kind than regular human beings, even if they DO have experience playing as Halflings.

Precisely. If you're going to be a guy playing a girl (or vice versa) expect some good-natured ribbing. As long as it stays good natured, just roll with it and eventually it will stop.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 11:49 AM
Teasing someone isn't just an aspect of frat boy personality, yknow.

I know that consciously.


And how many people do you know, male and female, who never do friendly teases at all? It is a very wide and accepted social practice in modern day.

Dunno. Not quite the point though. I have a generally negative preconception of the average male. Whether I know better consciously or not doesn't really seem to effect that.

It's very stereotyped. Tools, vehicles, lying with women to sleep with them, fishing, getting drunk every night, doing manual labor, being very competitive and generally being more of a jerk. I know very few guys that actually fit more than half of those qualities and I consciously know better, but I have an unfortunate preconception. Personally, I don't fit ANY of those qualities, and have a direct aversion to them.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 11:52 AM
Dunno. Not quite the point though. I have a generally negative preconception of the average male. Whether I know better consciously or not doesn't really seem to effect that.

It's very stereotyped. Tools, vehicles, lying with women to sleep with them, fishing, getting drunk every night, doing manual labor, being very competitive and generally being more of a jerk. I know very few guys that actually fit more than half of those qualities and I consciously know better, but I have an unfortunate preconception.

...Then fix your preconception.

Don't tell me "I can't."

Fix it.

Because that's just goddamned absurd and that is the type of conception that can be changed. You do not acknowledge it, you do not condone, you force a cognitive dissonance in yourself.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 11:55 AM
...Then fix your preconception.

Don't tell me "I can't."

Fix it.

Because that's just goddamned absurd and that is the type of conception that can be changed. You do not acknowledge it, you do not condone, you force a cognitive dissonance in yourself.

I always correct myself mentally if it comes up, before it effects anything, if that's what you mean. But it's still my initial reaction. Just like, if I were to put my hand on a hot stove, pulling it back would be my initial reaction. (Though, removing my hand from a hot stove actually has a good reason, wheras the other does not.)

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 12:00 PM
Your posting indicates otherwise. If you really want to change it, don't say things like that. You are what you say; there's a reason why one of the best studying techniques is to subvocalize or copy down what you are reading/hearing.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 12:00 PM
Yeeeaaah.

I invite you to spend 45 seconds imagining someone saying what you just said, about women and hurtful female stereotypes.

The Glyphstone
2009-10-26, 12:03 PM
As a side note, this is biologically possible in the real world, in a lab. (The same cannot be said for two males.) Also note, the offspring of two females will always be female, as there is no Y chromosome to pass on to their progeny.

A Blue Wizard Did It?

Telonius
2009-10-26, 12:16 PM
Some people are comfortable with cross-gender playing; others aren't. If the group really isn't comfortable with it, I won't play a female role. Otherwise, if it's interesting, go for it.

However, if you want to mess with the people who are uncomfortable with it, ask them if they like "The Simpsons." Then ask them if they know who does the voice for Bart.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 12:18 PM
Your posting indicates otherwise. If you really want to change it, don't say things like that. You are what you say; there's a reason why one of the best studying techniques is to subvocalize or copy down what you are reading/hearing.

I've honestly never understood why. I've found that, for classes at least, the easiest way for me to fail is to take notes instead of paying attention, but that's a matter of recollection, not mindset.

When I think of such a stereotype as a reaction, my second reaction is along the lines of "That's stupid. Don't be an idiot.", which has also become a direct reaction that always immediately follows the previous thought.

Saying something contrary to what actually is though, even if it's to change what is, is still a lie. I absolutely can't stand lies, won't lie, and will stop hanging out with someone if I catch them in a lie. (I'm not, like, constantly on the lookout for lies... But if it comes up.)


Yeeeaaah.

I invite you to spend 45 seconds imagining someone saying what you just said, about women and hurtful female stereotypes.

I would think them an idiot... The same for looking at my own post from the eyes of somebody else. As a minor note, I AM male and I have none of the qualities I'm associating with males.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 12:23 PM
Saying something contrary to what actually is though, even if it's to change what is, is still a lie. I absolutely can't stand lies, won't lie, and will stop hanging out with someone if I catch them in a lie. (I'm not, like, constantly on the lookout for lies... But if it comes up.)

You do not have to say something contrary to what you believe. You can, however, refrain from making statements like "supports my belief that males are a bunch of frat boys."

Taking notes may not be helping you simply because you don't have time to think about the meaning of the words with your method of note taking. Subvocalization while reading notes should still work.

You being male does not render you automatically immune or soften the blow. My mother is obviously female and has slight sex biases against women, having been raised in a strongly patriarchal mindset.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 12:34 PM
You being male does not render you automatically immune or soften the blow.

I'm aware. I mentioned it because Fishy's post to me would make more sense if I were female.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 12:36 PM
I'm aware. I mentioned it because Fishy's post to me would make more sense if I were female.

Not necessarily. Generally speaking, because non-strawman misandry is much rarer and more impotent than misogyny, there is a mild tendency among some egalitarian-minded groups to only fully appreciate sexism when placed in a misogynistic context.

Moriato
2009-10-26, 12:42 PM
All questions of sexual preference and proclivities aside, it is still a little distracting whenever someone plays a character of the opposite gender.

First of all, it's tough to remember to call a male's female character "she", or a female's "he". And most players I know who play opposite-gender characters get inordinately annoyed at this. Which brings me to my other point:

We can't see your character. You might have this perfect mental image of what your character should look like, sound like, and what they feel, but the other players don't. Other players look and see.. you. We only have you, and if you're playing an opposite gender, then you don't look, or sound, anything remotely like your character, it can be confusing.

I'm not saying don't do it, by all means do, if you want to, but it is a little confusing.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 12:44 PM
What Moriato said is very true and I personally discourage anyone who's not a talented voice from roleplaying opposite genders when roleplaying in person or over skype. But this is one of many reasons I prefer textplay.

Solaris
2009-10-26, 12:45 PM
So I guess by this standard, all DMs have Schizophrenia, huh? :)

I think you were looking for 'multiple personality disorder' or 'dissociative identity disorder.' (MPD/DID are the same thing with different names.)
We are other people.


...Then fix your preconception.

Don't tell me "I can't."

Fix it.

Because that's just goddamned absurd and that is the type of conception that can be changed. You do not acknowledge it, you do not condone, you force a cognitive dissonance in yourself.

I agree. I work with about a hundred guys and almost none of them fit that stereotype. The couple who do? We mock them mercilessly.
Fun fact? We do manual labor. We do work with tools. Some of them are officers, but that's beside the point. We are hugely competitive. We tease each other. Our vehicles are armored. A lot of guys drink often, but not to the point of intoxication. We ain't saints by any stretch, but... Speaking from the perspective of a guy who was a nerd in high school? The men I work with aren't frat boys/jocks/whatever. I take offense to that stereotype, Thajocoth. I'd recommend spending some time actually observing rather than reacting.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 12:47 PM
Not necessarily. Generally speaking, because non-strawman misandry is much rarer and more impotent than misogyny, there is a mild tendency among some egalitarian-minded groups to only fully appreciate sexism when placed in a misogynistic context.

That is exactly what I was going to say, except with larger and more accurate words, thank you. I figured Thajocoth had already identified himself as a member of such an egalitarian-minded group.

The point is, stereotypical negative predjudices about men are just as hurtful and groundless as stereotypical negative prejudices about women, and even stereotypical negative prejudices based on race, religion or sexuality. And they really ought to be just as socially unacceptable, and they aren't.

Solaris
2009-10-26, 12:49 PM
That is exactly what I was going to say, except with larger and more accurate words, thank you. I figured Thajocoth had already identified himself as a member of such an egalitarian-minded group.

The point is, stereotypical negative predjudices about men are just as hurtful and groundless as stereotypical negative prejudices about women, and even stereotypical negative prejudices based on race, religion or sexuality. And they really ought to be just as socially unacceptable, and they aren't.

What I was going to say, except mine involved some foaming at the mouth. Mayhaps we ought to get off this topic before modlock?

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 01:00 PM
What I was going to say, except mine involved some foaming at the mouth. Mayhaps we ought to get off this topic before modlock?

I was about to suggest that all further discussion on this be sent via PMs, as I had no intention of hijacking Kyuubi's thread and this tangent has gone on a bit too long. I have no problem with discussing anything further via PMs, but will no longer respond to anything on this tangent in-topic.

Sorry Kyuubi.

BritishBill
2009-10-26, 01:14 PM
I always play a girl character in MMOs because I think its funny, dunno why though, I get lot of fun private messages too.......wooo!

Zeful
2009-10-26, 01:31 PM
First of all, it's tough to remember to call a male's female character "she", or a female's "he". And most players I know who play opposite-gender characters get inordinately annoyed at this. Which brings me to my other point:Wanna bet? I managed, in less than a week, get my entire school to call me by my middle name, simply by refusing to respond to anything else (and catching myself when I did respond with the question: "Were you talking to me?"). The same concept applies to the gaming table. If you only respond at the table to the character's name and references therein, the other people will start calling you by that name in order to get your attention. It will take a few sessions, but is totally doable.

As for the topic, I've only played as male characters in tabletop gaming only because I've played so few times. But half the characters I create are female. Of course since I can't fully understand the female mind (don't think I ever will either, being a guy and all) so the female characters I create tend to fall easily into the Action Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl) category.

I tend for female characters in video games because those are very large investments of time, and if I'm going to stare at someone's butt all day, it'll be a butt I enjoy looking at.

Starscream
2009-10-26, 01:37 PM
Let’s be honest here. It does take a strong open mind to accept that the dude across from you with a beard and ding-a-ling is actually pretty paladin princess in game.

It's also hard to accept that he's a well muscled barbarian with a decent charisma score, and the ability to lift a battle-axe above his head.:smallwink:

And it's hard to accept that the DM is an army of orcs, a fair elven maiden, a drunken man at a tavern handing out cryptic hints (okay, that one's not much of a stretch), a dragon, a demon, the god that the cleric prays to, and Mr. Rogers (that was a strange session indeed).

a little suspension of disbelief is necessary for pretty much any sort of roleplaying.

Thajocoth
2009-10-26, 01:40 PM
Oh yeah, to add something on-topic again... My first character that I made... A male Eladrin Wizard... A few months of gaming later, the warlock's player (not his character): "Wait, your character's a guy? Sorry, I really thought you were playing a woman for some odd reason."

This was a game played weekly for 3-4 hours after work in the office. We've discussed the game countless times on our daily Starbucks runs. But he, for some weird reason, thought I was playing a character of the opposite gender as myself.

If it was his character saying it, it'd make some more sense... After all, elves do tend to look a bit more feminine.

Remmirath
2009-10-26, 04:21 PM
In my experience, a group will usually go one of two ways (with, obviously, some of them falling in between). How playing a character of the opposite gender is seen depends a lot on the type of group, I think.

One: The DM and other players almost always refer to each other by player name and not character name, there's very little in character dialogue, and whole thing has the feeling of more 'the whole point is just smashing the monsters'. Not much roleplaying.

Two: The DM and other players always refer to the characters instead of the players during the session, speaking in charater is common, and half or more of the session is probably taken up just in roleplaying. The monsters are smashed because the characters have a reason to do it. A lot of roleplaying.

In a group like two, people playing characters of the opposite gender is usually easier and not really seen as odd. After all, you're just playing a character, and the gender of that character is what it is.

In a group like one, it's highly confusing because they are trying to actually place you in the dungeon mentally, and the character is essentially just an engine for destruction. They wonder why you made your character's gender different from yours.

The group I usually play in is basically the second example, with the addition that it's a small group so we typically each play several characters at a time. We're also all actors, so that probably helps at least a bit. I frequently end up playing male characters. It all depends on the character concept and what I want to play at the time.

I did once play in a group more like one, however, and I didn't realise it to begin with (and neither did my brother, who was also playing). It ended up that time that the character I felt like playing was male and the character he felt like playing was female, and this apparently confused the group quite a bit. This same group, despite me frequently referring to him by name in the beginning before I gave up, never remembered my character's name and later some of them were actually surprised he had one.

Probably needless to say, but I prefer the second kind of group.

Zaydos
2009-10-26, 04:32 PM
In my experience, a group will usually go one of two ways (with, obviously, some of them falling in between). How playing a character of the opposite gender is seen depends a lot on the type of group, I think.

One: The DM and other players almost always refer to each other by player name and not character name, there's very little in character dialogue, and whole thing has the feeling of more 'the whole point is just smashing the monsters'. Not much roleplaying.

Two: The DM and other players always refer to the characters instead of the players during the session, speaking in charater is common, and half or more of the session is probably taken up just in roleplaying. The monsters are smashed because the characters have a reason to do it. A lot of roleplaying.

In a group like two, people playing characters of the opposite gender is usually easier and not really seen as odd. After all, you're just playing a character, and the gender of that character is what it is.

In a group like one, it's highly confusing because they are trying to actually place you in the dungeon mentally, and the character is essentially just an engine for destruction. They wonder why you made your character's gender different from yours.

The group I usually play in is basically the second example, with the addition that it's a small group so we typically each play several characters at a time. We're also all actors, so that probably helps at least a bit. I frequently end up playing male characters. It all depends on the character concept and what I want to play at the time.

I did once play in a group more like one, however, and I didn't realise it to begin with (and neither did my brother, who was also playing). It ended up that time that the character I felt like playing was male and the character he felt like playing was female, and this apparently confused the group quite a bit. This same group, despite me frequently referring to him by name in the beginning before I gave up, never remembered my character's name and later some of them were actually surprised he had one.

Probably needless to say, but I prefer the second kind of group.

My groups tend to switch between character and player name on the fly. It really is just which one we prefer to use. We don't forget that the characters have names (that's just... wrong) but sometimes we forget what their names are. We sometimes have people play opposite gender but it doesn't confuse us or stop us from saying "-insert player name here- what do you do?" or even having players slip up and when talking in character use a player's name instead of the character. As for RPing and in character conversation it really depends upon player and mood. I've had times everybody was talking in character and the session was 80% RP and then with the same group the next week we played sheer kick in the door and kill stuff (with the reason that our bosses said to and they're evil aberrations deadset on conquering the world).

So I'd have to disagree with the two types of group, you get groups that switch between them, or that have a mix of play styles. I actually don't know if I played in a group for more than a month where we didn't switch around at least 1 in 3 or 4 times. At least not since I was 6-7 in which case I played Bob the Generic Cleric but it was fun.

deuxhero
2009-10-26, 04:40 PM
Honestly, "This character concept only works as a girl," feels a little bit sexist to me. Why can't the gentle, soft-spoken, doves-and-bunnies-and-kittens healer druid be a guy?


What about a Durthan or Hathran? (mechanical, but hey.)

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 04:58 PM
I always play a girl character in MMOs because I think its funny, dunno why though, I get lot of fun private messages too.......wooo!

My friend does that too under the idea that "whose ass would you rather look at all day as your adventuring?"

Hat-Trick
2009-10-26, 05:14 PM
In tabletops or anything where RP is going to some up often, I play male characters, because I know the male perspective. In MMOs and video games, I create both, mostly to get the look out of my head and on something semi-tangible.

I once created a character on City of Heroes that was female, but I had made it in a way that many of the people I teamed with thought the toon was a guy.

Glyde
2009-10-26, 05:34 PM
My characters are collectively 80% female 20% male.

Why? Because. The reasons people are saying its...confusing or gay or whatnot goes right over my head. I do it because I want to, and nobody I've played with has had a problem with it. Well, some have, but they're fairly new to the whole rping thing.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 05:39 PM
Anyone play someone completely androgynous to the point that you speak about your character simply as "it" or "the person"?

I have one but it's more of an assistant to another character than a real character itself...

Solaris
2009-10-26, 06:04 PM
Had a warforged who was very adamant about not being a gendered meatbag.

Frosty
2009-10-26, 06:49 PM
Had a warforged who was very adamant about not being a gendered meatbag.

What is he, King Lota? HK-47?

James the Dark
2009-10-26, 07:29 PM
I've had a fairly limited career in terms of characters. I've only had about a dozen or so. Of those, only three have been female, including my very first. Now, that one was the abomination, the lesbian-stripper-ninja. I was young, I didn't know any better. Well, many years passed since that, and when I finally decided to play a lass again, I decided to focus on an aspect of personality rather than a gender. I chose to pick a perpetual victim, a woman who got beat down every day of her life until she got pissed enough to become a Hunter (nWoD). She's still all kinds of traumatized, so sex is right off the table, even though she is going slowly more crazy as she slides down the Morality scale.
The most recent woman I've run with was a Pathfinder girl. I was intrigued by the Vudrani nation from the setting book, and realized I could do something with it if I made a girl. Since Jalmorey was a patriarchical culture, they would engage in systematic disinformation to keep the female gender down, so my Rogue/Paladin would be a 20 year old virgin who honestly believes the lies she's been told about sexuality to such an extent that she fears the act like nothing else.

Can you tell I'm a Psych major?

Hat-Trick
2009-10-26, 07:34 PM
I've thought up one character like that. Grew up being an outcast so s/he became a class clown to gain a semblance of respect. S/He manifested super powers allowing her/him to split into two entities with defined genders, one of each, and they have a thing for each other. Not exactly a comfortable person to be around.

Superglucose
2009-10-26, 07:36 PM
I once had a male play run a female character who was pretending to be a man, and indeed wanted to be a man.

The concept was kind of like Mulan, and I loved it.

Solaris
2009-10-26, 08:06 PM
What is he, King Lota? HK-47?

Predated King Lota, and I hadn't intentionally based it off HK. I won't deny Breaker slowly morphed into a slightly-less-amoral version of HK-47, though. Breaker is sorry that its party members were such a bad influence.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 08:10 PM
Changeling master of disguise. Had been exclusively female before Events made her abandon her past life and become an international super-spy, now inhabits male personae just as easily, frequently and thoroughly as female.

Pretty much no one knows what the heck she's actually thinking. Including her.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-10-26, 08:19 PM
I play more females than males (far more if you count casual roleplaying rather than just rules-based games of D&D or M&M), though I usually do so online as opposed to in person.

Deepblue706
2009-10-26, 08:57 PM
I never play as a woman because I'm a misogynist.

BritishBill
2009-10-26, 09:48 PM
My friend does that too under the idea that "whose ass would you rather look at all day as your adventuring?"

Yea thats a good point :smallbiggrin:

Sharkman1231
2009-10-26, 09:55 PM
I never play as a woman because I'm a misogynist.

I disagree greatly with your ideals, but you have the right to say (type) them.

I play in a group of all guys (I'm a guy too (sharkman, never whould have guessed))
The gender thing never really had an impact on our group, beside just general backstory fun.
A summation of our characters and their genders:

"Hey Tim, what's your character's gender?"
"Female. Hey Shariq (me), what about your wizard?"
"Female."
"Awesome! High Five!"
*High Five*
"Hey Shariq, want to be sisters?"
"Sure!"
"Hey Zach (DM), our characters are now sisters!"

My name is actually spelled like that. We're all 16 & 17 years old.
One ton, o' fun.

Solaris
2009-10-26, 10:01 PM
I never play as a woman because I'm a misogynist.

Ladies and gentleman, the rare troll-baiter. A rare and endangered species on this board. We should observe it before it follows the rest of its kind into extinction.
...
Ignore the small fire lit under it. Ignore that completely.

BritishBill
2009-10-26, 10:07 PM
Ladies and gentleman, the rare troll-baiter. A rare and endangered species on this board. We should observe it before it follows the rest of its kind into extinction.
...
Ignore the small fire lit under it. Ignore that completely.

good thing i dunno what miso-whatever means lol

Sploosh
2009-10-26, 10:12 PM
I never use to play female characters in MMOs until I rerolled Horde and wanted as close to a human male I could get (aka female orc). Since then I have grown attatched to a lot of the female MMORPG characters I have including backstories, personalities, ect..

When I began D&D I assumed it would be easy to transfer over but immersed in a "Type one" group I quickly realized it wasnt my character they envisioned, it was me.

What really helped with a few groups of mine was to show them The Gamers 2 where the sorceress is a male guy and the character in the story switches between the actual male gamer actor and a real female actress.

That seemed to clue them into the difference between character and player better than any words or pictures could and it might help you.

Sharkman1231
2009-10-26, 10:14 PM
good thing i dunno what miso-whatever means lol

Misogyny is the hatred of/contempt for/bias against women
Misandry is against men
Misantropy is against humanity in general

Mystic Muse
2009-10-26, 10:17 PM
I am now (probably) permanently leaving this thread. I got what I wanted and there's not much else for me to discuss.

Starscream
2009-10-26, 10:34 PM
I never play as a woman because I'm a misogynist.

Who doesn't like getting misoges? They relieve stress and are good for dealing with muscle pain. Try to stay on topic, please.

Roland St. Jude
2009-10-26, 11:09 PM
I am now (probably) permanently leaving this thread. I got what I wanted and there's not much else for me to discuss.

Sheriff of Moddingham: If the OP's essentially done with this, I'm inclined to lock it as it seems to be degrading considerably. Because I'm locking it, I may not be scrubbing rules violations.