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deuxhero
2009-10-26, 11:21 AM
What are good spells to make use of their half-casting? Obviously anything based on caster level is at a major disadvantage.

With a quick look at the core, Ranger has a few gems of utility spells (longstrider, pass without trace, resist energy, endure elements) but Paladin doesn't really see anything in core beyond allowing use of Wands of Cure Light Wounds and crafting wands of lesser restoration for cheep. How do the 2 get beyond core?

Do any spells get better with mystic ranger or house rules of CL=-3 instead of Cl=/2? What about tieing paladin spells to Charisma over wisdom?

Eldariel
2009-10-26, 11:33 AM
In Core? Pally has:
Bless Weapon
Divine Favor
Protection from...
Lesser Restoration
Shield Other
Resist Energy
Heal Mount
Magic Circle against...
Death Ward
Holy Sword (!!)
Restoration


Those are all fine spells regardless of level. Protections have the "immunity to mind-affecting" when the bonuses become trivial and others have just irreplaceable or clutch effects; auto-confirm crits, +3 damage/to hit (actually maxes out on level 18), share damage (decent with mount in some scenarios, can be used with weaker allies), Heal on mount (Heal is a nice spell), immunity to crap, "Make This Weapon +7" and restoring ability damage...

Really, in Core Paladin is very good casting-wise and yeah, tying it to Cha would help somewhat as it would make the spells with save somewhat usable for some Paladins and more importantly, get Pally more daily castings of them (and reduce MAD).


They both get much better with Spell Compendium though. That's one of the prime reasons I love Spell Compendium (particularly the Ranger; he's really, really crappy in Core - the best thing is that the list has Cure Light Wounds so Rangers can use the Wands without UMD; in Spell Compendium Ranger gets a LOT of good spells that help his combat styles).

Really, Resist Energy, Entangle (which'd be great if the DC didn't suck), Wind Wall, Water Walk, Tree Shape, Animal Growth, Freedom of Movement & Tree Stride are the only really worthwhile Core Ranger spells and of those, Entangle is rarely usable and Animal Growth is meh without animals to grow. I'd only say Resist Energy, Wind Wall & Freedom of Movement are eminently usable of that bunch.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-26, 11:33 AM
What are good spells to make use of their half-casting? Obviously anything based on caster level is at a major disadvantage.

With a quick look at the core, Ranger has a few gems of utility spells (longstrider, pass without trace, resist energy, endure elements) but Paladin doesn't really see anything in core beyond allowing use of Wands of Cure Light Wounds and crafting wands of lesser restoration for cheep. How do the 2 get beyond core?

Do any spells get better with mystic ranger or house rules of CL=-3 instead of Cl=/2? What about tieing paladin spells to Charisma over wisdom?

Pally:
Silverbeard (grow a beard that grants Divine AC bonus).

Ranger:
Find the gap: lets you touch attack (melee or ranged).

Person_Man
2009-10-26, 11:36 AM
Sword of the Arcane Order feat from Champions of Valor allows Paladins and Rangers to memorize Wizard spells. That opens up dozens (hundreds?) of useful options, especially for Wands.

A Paladin 11 could also commit an Evil act and (assuming he planned his Evil ahead of time and took Improved Sunder, Cleave, Power Attack, plus ranks in Hide and Knowledge Religion) trade in Paladin levels for Blackguard levels. That would make him a Fallen Paladin 1/Blackguard 10, giving him full BAB, 4th level spells (higher then any other half-caster at that ECL), and a host of useful special abilities. In particular, it gives him access to Freedom of Movement, Poison, and Summon Monster VI, plus other nifty Blackguard spells from the splat books.

deuxhero
2009-10-26, 11:45 AM
Yeah, but isn't Sword of the Arcane order a Mystra feat? Aren't they all overpowered?

Person_Man
2009-10-26, 12:06 PM
Yeah, but isn't Sword of the Arcane order a Mystra feat? Aren't they all overpowered?

Yes. The Paladin also has access to a boatload of broken Divine feats, thanks to his ability to Turn Undead. And the Ranger could take the Wildshape variant and Natural Spell.

But compared to any Tome of Battle class, Knight, Totemist, Psychic Warrior, etc, Paladins and Rangers are quire weak. Compared to most full casters, they're a joke. So helping them out usually doesn't unbalance a game.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 12:51 PM
The best spell for paladins is the Battle Blessing feat from Complete Champion.

Wait, what?